djb77
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16/10/2011 At FRA: B747 Ferrying Two Engines?

Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:24 pm

Dear all,

My son and I were driving towards Frankfurt Airport last night at 19.10 on the A3 autobahn and we saw a B747 landing towards the west, directly overhead our car. As the sun was setting, the aircraft was illuminated against a very organge/red sky. Both I and my son were convinced that the landing B747 actually had six engines, i.e. it looked to be ferrying two additional engines under the wings.

As the sun was setting, light wasn't great and we couldn't identify the airline/cargo operator. Can anybody help us with additional information? Or were we simply "seeing things"...?

Many thanks
djb77
 
airbazar
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RE: 16/10/2011 At FRA: B747 Ferrying Two Engines?

Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:37 pm

Quoting djb77 (Thread starter):
Both I and my son were convinced that the landing B747 actually had six engines

Are you sure it wasn't this, what you saw?

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falstaff
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RE: 16/10/2011 At FRA: B747 Ferrying Two Engines?

Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:09 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 1):
Are you sure it wasn't this, what you saw?


That would be so sweet to see, especially landing or taking off.

I have seen photos of 707s that have had an spare engine engine under the wing. They were on a pod like thing, but had a cover over the intake.

I have never seen a 747 with any spare engines hanging off it.
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SonomaFlyer
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RE: 16/10/2011 At FRA: B747 Ferrying Two Engines?

Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:11 pm

There's a photo in the database somewhere of Qantas ferrying an engine to JNB to replace one blown on take-off. I'm pretty sure it can ferry engines under each wing.
 
Jetfixr757
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RE: 16/10/2011 At FRA: B747 Ferrying Two Engines?

Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:12 pm

70's, 8's 10's 74's all had the capabilty of an additional engine ferry pod on the inboard l/h side of the the left engines closest to the fuselage. Referred to as 5th pod on the 4 engine jets.
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andz
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RE: 16/10/2011 At FRA: B747 Ferrying Two Engines?

Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:35 pm

5th engine ferry was common on 747s but I don't believe they could carry 2.


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The one on the left is ferrying its own faulty engine from MIA to JNB after having one replaced. At the time it was the longest 5th engine ferry distance ever.

[Edited 2011-10-17 08:42:59]
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falstaff
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RE: 16/10/2011 At FRA: B747 Ferrying Two Engines?

Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:09 pm

Quoting andz (Reply 5):
5th engine ferry was common on 747s but I don't believe they could carry 2.

Can they all do that? Or is their some sort of optional equipment that is needed to do that?
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andz
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RE: 16/10/2011 At FRA: B747 Ferrying Two Engines?

Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:03 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 6):
Can they all do that? Or is their some sort of optional equipment that is needed to do that?

I believe.... 741 to 744 all had the capability. Of course, I also believe I will be corrected!
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AR385
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RE: 16/10/2011 At FRA: B747 Ferrying Two Engines?

Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:31 pm

They all can do that, but not on both wings, and the flight profile changes as there are different drag penalties. I believe ony certain crews were qualified. The AI 742 that crashed off the Irish coast due to a bomb, was carrying a 5th engine.
 
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RE: 16/10/2011 At FRA: B747 Ferrying Two Engines?

Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:42 pm

Quoting Jetfixr757 (Reply 4):
70's, 8's 10's 74's all had the capabilty of an additional engine ferry pod on the inboard l/h side of the the left engines closest to the fuselage. Referred to as 5th pod on the 4 engine jets.
Jet.

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Spacepope
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RE: 16/10/2011 At FRA: B747 Ferrying Two Engines?

Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:00 pm

Just occured to me, could you have possibly seen an IL-80 "MAXDROME"? From a distance it could look a bit like a 6-engined 747.


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RE: 16/10/2011 At FRA: B747 Ferrying Two Engines?

Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:02 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 2):
I have never seen a 747 with any spare engines hanging off it.

There are many in this very database; spend time there should you wish to see some.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 6):
Can they all do that? Or is their some sort of optional equipment that is needed to do that?

All of them had the mounting facilities on the left wing; because the engine isn't producing forward thrust, it's actually a much simpler mount than the actual hard-mounted engines on the aircraft. A special pylon is used to mate the engine's standard mounts to the simple screws in the wing.

There were no provisions to do this on the right wing, so it's unlikely that the aircraft the OP saw was a 747, unless there was an odd optical illusion.
 
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CCA
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RE: 16/10/2011 At FRA: B747 Ferrying Two Engines?

Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:10 am

Not all 744s have the 5th pod ability as you can clearly see the where it attaches inboard of #2 engine and I've seen A/C without the necessary structure.
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NWAROOSTER
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RE: 16/10/2011 At FRA: B747 Ferrying Two Engines?

Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:20 am

Quoting CCA (Reply 12):

Not all 744s have the 5th pod ability as you can clearly see the where it attaches inboard of #2 engine and I've seen A/C without the necessary structure.

The fifth pop for carrying a spare engine is/was an option on the 747. A special nose cone is also mounted on the engine to reduce the ability of the engine to windmill. The fan blades are also secured so the engine can not windmill.
One interesting question is, is the 747-8 available with the 5th pod option? The 747-8 has a completely new wing.   
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andrewtang
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RE: 16/10/2011 At FRA: B747 Ferrying Two Engines?

Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:48 am

Quoting CCA (Reply 12):
Not all 744s have the 5th pod ability as you can clearly see the where it attaches inboard of #2 engine and I've seen A/C without the necessary structure.

5th pod can only be used on 747 fitted with Rolls Royce or Pratt & Whitney engines and most 747 do not have the ability to fit a 5th pod because most airlines don't see the need to add this optional feature.

[Edited 2011-10-17 22:53:46]
 
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Fly-K
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RE: 16/10/2011 At FRA: B747 Ferrying Two Engines?

Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:33 am

AFAIK neither the AN225 nor the IL-80 were here in FRA recently (IL-80 never, I'd say).
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Viscount724
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RE: 16/10/2011 At FRA: B747 Ferrying Two Engines?

Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:56 pm

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 3):
There's a photo in the database somewhere of Qantas ferrying an engine to JNB to replace one blown on take-off. I'm pretty sure it can ferry engines under each wing.

Left wing only.

Quoting andz (Reply 7):
Quoting falstaff (Reply 6):
Can they all do that? Or is their some sort of optional equipment that is needed to do that?

I believe.... 741 to 744 all had the capability. Of course, I also believe I will be corrected!

At least on the 744 it was optional.
 
NWAROOSTER
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RE: 16/10/2011 At FRA: B747 Ferrying Two Engines?

Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:14 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 16):
Quoting andz (Reply 7):
Quoting falstaff (Reply 6):
Can they all do that? Or is their some sort of optional equipment that is needed to do that?

I believe.... 741 to 744 all had the capability. Of course, I also believe I will be corrected!

At least on the 744 it was optional.

The fifth pod for ferrying an engine was optional on all 747 models. Northwest Airlines bought two 747-135s from National Airlines and had to have Boeing install the 5th pod hardware to ferry an engine.   
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