Pe@rson
Topic Author
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TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:33 pm

"Turkish Airlines will begin flights to four new destinations including London Gatwick cover the coming months

The carrier will launch flights from Istanbul to London Gatwick. Depending on fleet availability, services to Russian city Novosibirisk, Misrata in Libya and Mogadishu, Somalia will follow.

The carrier will also increase flights from Moscow. At present it operates the Moscow-Istanbul route five times per day, but will add Antalya and Ankara as new destinations, taking the number of flights from Moscow each week to 51."

Source: today's ATI.

===

Pretty cool and innovative that they're taking the step to serve Mogadishu!
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
kaitak
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RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:38 pm

Good for Gatwick as well; this will create a lot of new connection opportunities!
 
tcm
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RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:38 pm

Quoting Pe@rson (Thread starter):
Pretty cool and innovative that they're taking the step to serve Mogadishu!

There are serious safety concerns regarding Mogadishu. Would it be safe?
 
Pe@rson
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RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:42 pm

Quoting tcm (Reply 2):
Would it be safe?

Presumably they have already thought about that.  
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
sw733
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RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:47 pm

Awesome. I love where TK is going - diving in to some unusual markets and establishing a presence before anyone else does. Not only can they likely offer higher fares, but they can also gain a loyal traveler base before the markets become more popular. Love it from a business standpoint!

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 3):
Presumably they have already thought about that.

One would hope that A.net is not the first place someone said "Would Somalia be safe?"  
 
yegbey01
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RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:49 pm

is TK following the EK strategy....It's amazing how much TK has grown lately.

I flew TK back in August from FRA to IST and I must say that the kebab they served us on that flight was amazing
 
runway23
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RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:54 pm

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 5):
I flew TK back in August from FRA to IST and I must say that the kebab they served us on that flight was amazing

Quite normal as it seems TK serves the same meal in all classes, just the silverware and cutlery change.
 
Pe@rson
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RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:56 pm

Quoting sw733 (Reply 4):
I love where TK is going - diving in to some unusual markets and establishing a presence before anyone else does. Not only can they likely offer higher fares, but they can also gain a loyal traveler base before the markets become more popular.

Absolutely! I agree.

Quoting sw733 (Reply 4):
One would hope that A.net is not the first place someone said "Would Somalia be safe?"

 
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
MaverickM11
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RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:59 pm

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 5):
is TK following the EK strategy....

EK's strategy is easily replicated, at least on the network side. It's fairly easy to buy a bunch of big planes and connect the world's biggest cities frequently; it's also easy to compete with since EK's top flow markets are probably either already served or ripe for nonstop service. TK on the other hand is building a network that is very difficult to replicate. No one is going to go after MGQ and OVB any time soon, and they, among many of TK's other destinations, provide diverse flow onto the major trunk routes that is unique to TK.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
MEA-707
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RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:03 pm

Daallo Air still flies there with old Ilyushin 18s because insurance companies don't like for instance an A-320 to go there. I wonder if TK can insure their 737-800 or A-321 well or if they will retain an old 737-400 for the Mogadishu flights.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
avek00
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RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:05 pm

One of the advantages of TK over EK is a large home base with rather high-yield O&D.
Live life to the fullest.
 
sw733
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RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:11 pm

Quoting avek00 (Reply 10):
One of the advantages of TK over EK is a large home base with rather high-yield O&D.

Indeed. IST is such a huge city. Every time I go there, I am in awe of how far it extends and the sheer number of people living in the Istanbul metro area (13+ million people).

Istanbul is also in such a perfect spot for connecting between Asia/Middle East and Europe. Europe to Iraq via UAE is completely out of the way, whereas Europe to Iraq via Turkey is a perfect line.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:11 pm

Quoting avek00 (Reply 10):
One of the advantages of TK over EK is a large home base with rather high-yield O&D.

   Plus people actually want to stop in/visit IST, regardless of the Duty Free 
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Clydenairways
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RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:28 pm

TK is really trying to copy EK strategy and it seems to be doing it very sucussfully.
It has a number of advantages:
Geographical location at an East/West crossroads.
Much lower Labour costs compared to European competitors.
Booming home tourism market for the last 10 years.
Vision for the future.

By comparison look at what happened to their close neighbour Olympic !
 
2travel2know2
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RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:07 pm

LGW will be LON 3rd airport served by TK, as it seems ESB-LON operate into STN.

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 13):
TK is really trying to copy EK strategy and it seems to be doing it very sucussfully.
It has a number of advantages:
Geographical location at an East/West crossroads.
Much lower Labour costs compared to European competitors.
Booming home tourism market for the last 10 years.
Vision for the future.

Add to that use of narrow-body aircraft.
It'd be no surprise that TK could add in some near futre 2-3 new destinations in western India (if allowed), JUB, DLA and others within 6h30m flying time from IST with A319/B737-800, and destinations like LAD, GIG with its wide-body.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
JU068
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RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:26 pm

Wouldn't it be more correct to say that Turkish is copying Qatar rather than Emirates? I mean if they were to copy Emirates then they would have had an all widebody fleet...
 
MaverickM11
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RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:35 pm

Quoting ju068 (Reply 15):
Wouldn't it be more correct to say that Turkish is copying Qatar rather than Emirates?

They're copying just about every hub-and-spoke in history--nothing new there, other than the unique destinations.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
directorguy
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RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:42 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 8):
EK's strategy is easily replicated, at least on the network side. It's fairly easy to buy a bunch of big planes and connect the world's biggest cities frequently; it's also easy to compete with since EK's top flow markets are probably either already served or ripe for nonstop service. TK on the other hand is building a network that is very difficult to replicate. No one is going to go after MGQ and OVB any time soon, and they, among many of TK's other destinations, provide diverse flow onto the major trunk routes that is unique to TK.

Great point. TK is investing in markets that will over time grow and yield great returns, but not to the extent that they will have routes that will bypass IST. This is why TK can serve places like MGQ or ALP 3-4 times a week and connect these cities to North America or the Far East, knowing that chances of Toronto-Aleppo or Misrata-Jakarta are very slim down the line. EK however is focusing on markets like India & China that gain more nonstops to Africa and Europe over time.
 
ASA
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RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:34 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 12):
Quoting avek00 (Reply 10):One of the advantages of TK over EK is a large home base with rather high-yield O&D.
   Plus people actually want to stop in/visit IST, regardless of the Duty Free  

      Indeed ...

but you are rubbing it to the EK, EY, GF, and QR folks out there ...   
 
bjorn14
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RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:17 pm

According to news reports that I saw MRA was destroyed during the intial stages of the Libyan Civil War. It may take awhile to rebuild the airport not mention how many of the 350K people will return. Nevertheless bold choices by TK. I hope JIB is next.
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
Hirnie
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RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:11 am

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 13):
TK is really trying to copy EK strategy and it seems to be doing it very sucussfully.

I don't know if they are really successfull. I heard that at this time time they are losing money. Am I correct? If so, I think that they are growing two fast. Nevertheless those new routes are partly quite exotic.
 
northstar80
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RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:38 am

Quoting ju068 (Reply 15):
Wouldn't it be more correct to say that Turkish is copying Qatar rather than Emirates?

if anything, QR is copying TK, TK is nearly twice as big as QR by fleet size, number of destinations and passengers flown.
 
Flyingsottsman
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RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:18 pm

What would be in Mogadishu to have a service there?
 
Pe@rson
Topic Author
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RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:39 pm

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 22):
What would be in Mogadishu to have a service there?

Lots of Somalis living abroard (e.g., roughly 100,000 in the UK alone) that wish to travel for VFR reasons, for one.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
bennett123
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RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:51 pm

I do not know the turkish Govt attitude to travel to Somalia, the attitude of the FCO is pretty clear;

http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-...country/sub-saharan-africa/somalia
 
Steelyman
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RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:56 pm

Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 21):
if anything, QR is copying TK, TK is nearly twice as big as QR by fleet size, number of destinations and passengers flown.

Completely agree, if we sum up some of ex-TK high management staff are nowadays in QR we can clearly see who copies who
BRGDS, Mike
 
jacobin777
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RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:16 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 12):
Quoting avek00 (Reply 10):
One of the advantages of TK over EK is a large home base with rather high-yield O&D.

Plus people actually want to stop in/visit IST, regardless of the Duty Free

Given that EK's O&D:transit is close to a 50:50 or a 40:60 mix (lets make it even a 30:70 mix), millions like to visit DXB as well... 
"Up the Irons!"
 
777way
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RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:18 pm

TK Cargo used to serve LGW, though PDF still shows the service, its gone from the active schedules.

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 22):
What would be in Mogadishu to have a service there?

Even potential flag carriers Egyptair, Sudan airways, Saudia and Yemenia dont fly there.

[Edited 2011-10-19 06:29:42]
 
sw733
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RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:44 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 27):
Even potential flag carriers Egyptair, Sudan airways, Saudia and Yemenia dont fly there.

Which is why, I suppose, TK is jumping on it. It's a risk...a big one. But rarely do businesses succeed without taking risks. One assumes TK will take all precautions possible and then some, both in regards to physical and financial safety, but still...risks must be taken.

$1000 says that will be a very, very junior bid at TK !  
 
MaverickM11
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RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:03 pm

Quoting sw733 (Reply 28):
$1000 says that will be a very, very junior bid at TK !

They already fly to what, 6 destinations in Iraq? They have some experience.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Flying Belgian
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RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:19 pm

TK clearly on the upper hill.

A friend of mine flew with them in C from BRU to IST and was amazed by the service's level on his flight.

They're clearly chasing EK.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
sw733
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RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:53 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 29):
They already fly to what, 6 destinations in Iraq? They have some experience.

Yeah, but most of the places they fly to in Iraq are (relatively!) safe compared to Mogadishu. Yes, Iraq is dangerous still. However, it's getting better and some of the cities in northern Iraq (i.e. Arbil) are really quite safe. The same absolutely cannot be said for Mogadishu.
 
ASA
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RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:00 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 24):

I do not know the turkish Govt attitude to travel to Somalia, the attitude of the FCO is pretty clear;

http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-...malia

That pretty much sums up the feeling of the entire "Western" world out there towards Somalia ... but it's not the same everywhere. The Turkish Prime Minister was the first head of state in 20 YEARS to visit Mogadishu recently - urging to the world to get more serious about the drought and the famine there. I would say that action alone would change the ball game for TK and other Turkish business houses interested in Somalia - creating enormous goodwill between the nations. It's still a risk - clearly - but they seem to be going with calculated risk (and hopefully back-up plans).

For that reason, I think, TK's decision to start Mogadishu is somewhat political as well. There is nothing wrong with that - as long as the business case is there. And I think there is - clearly there is a major void in services. Not just airline services, but all sorts of trade and business activities.

This takes us to some of the earlier comments in the thread. TK clearly is targeting the under served, out-of-the-way, and out-of-others'-radars destinations in the region, which I think is a great approach. They weren't the first to restart Iraq services after the war - but the way they have grown there is amazing. A parallel development is on in the trade/business side, as I hear, especially in Kurdistan areas. The same is about to happen in Libya, it seems.

Similarly, TK serves so many cities in Central Asia, Eastern Europe, Balkans, and Levant that EK and QR can only dream to match. I like the way they are pushing the flag, the business, and the diplomacy out there is quite interesting. But that's for another forum  
 
greenjet
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RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:59 pm

Quoting Hirnie (Reply 20):
I heard that at this time time they are losing money. Am I correct?

Turkish Airlines made a net profit of 286 million lira (US$153m) in 2010. However, in the first six months of 2011 the company made a net loss of 544m lira compared to a profit of 231m lira for the same period in 2010.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:20 pm

Quoting sw733 (Reply 31):
Yeah, but most of the places they fly to in Iraq are (relatively!) safe compared to Mogadishu.

They fly to KBL too--I can't imagine they overnight crews in any of these places.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
AeroWesty
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RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:47 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Thread starter):
Pretty cool and innovative that they're taking the step to serve Mogadishu!

Always a question in my mind when I see an airline serve a destination in an unstable country such as Somalia—in what currency would they price and sell tickets originating in Mogadishu?

The Somali Schilling isn't the most secure currency in the world, I wouldn't think, after googling it a bit. Anyone with the 411 on this?
International Homo of Mystery
 
sw733
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RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:38 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 35):
Always a question in my mind when I see an airline serve a destination in an unstable country such as Somalia—in what currency would they price and sell tickets originating in Mogadishu?

The Somali Schilling isn't the most secure currency in the world, I wouldn't think, after googling it a bit. Anyone with the 411 on this?

Good question! However, I think a just as pertinent question might be...how many people in Somalia would even have the money to fly to Turkey? Mogadishu might be a destination for many, but I doubt it's an origin for many.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 34):
They fly to KBL too--I can't imagine they overnight crews in any of these places.

I can't imagine so. That being said, I would overnight in Kabul 500 times before I would overnight in Mogadishu once!
 
stylo777
Posts: 1994
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RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:35 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 34):
I can't imagine they overnight crews in any of these places.
Quoting sw733 (Reply 36):

I can't imagine so. That being said, I would overnight in Kabul 500 times before I would overnight in Mogadishu once!

nope, they don't overnight crews at supposedly high-risk destinations. thats one of the operational advantages of TK with having a hub in IST and reaching those destinations within 5-6hrs flight time. with a quick turnaround and the same flight time back it is a long day for the crew, but still legal.
I can also think of a dead-head in/on duty out scenario.
 
JU068
Posts: 2094
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RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:05 am

Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 21):
if anything, QR is copying TK, TK is nearly twice as big as QR by fleet size, number of destinations and passengers flown.

Yes but Qatar has been doing this since October 1996 whereas Turkish has become what it is only recently. But anyway, it was not Qatar, Turkish or Emirates that discovered this business model so...


What kind of frequency would they offer in Mogadishu? Would it make sense to fly once a week?
 
leftyboarder
Posts: 739
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:38 pm

RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:26 am

Quoting ju068 (Reply 38):


What kind of frequency would they offer in Mogadishu? Would it make sense to fly once a week?

I wouldn't expect anything less than 3 weekly, otherwise it wouldn't be logical for the traveler (unless tourism is high on the list!).
 
JU068
Posts: 2094
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:23 am

RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:51 am

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 39):
I wouldn't expect anything less than 3 weekly, otherwise it wouldn't be logical for the traveler (unless tourism is high on the list!).

Thanks. Would they send their A319/B737-700? Somehow anything bigger than that could be too much capacity. Could the flight to Mogadishu be an extension of an already existing African destination?
 
777way
Posts: 6470
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RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:53 am

^ Exactly SV and MS have RJ's more right sized equipment for the route.
 
bjorn14
Posts: 3550
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:11 pm

RE: TK Seeking To Start 4 New Routes, Incl. Mogadishu

Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:43 am

Quoting sw733 (Reply 36):
...how many people in Somalia would even have the money to fly to Turkey?

After getting their ransoms Somalia pirates will fill up J class seats.  
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein

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