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enilria
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Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:14 pm

INSTRUCTIONS

WHAT IS THIS REPORT?
This compares what is for sale THIS WEEK for the stated period versus

what was for sale LAST WEEK...It does NOT compare to last year or now

(UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED).

HOW DO I READ IT?
XXX-YYY DEC 4>5 JAN 4>5 ; means that the listed airline changed the

frequency between the two airports to add from 4 to 5 roundtrips in

December and January. No other months were changed. I only list one

direction, although it is possible the listed change is only one way. It

is too difficult to average the two directions. I assume the change is

roundtrip and that is most often the case.

HOW ARE THE DAILY DEPARTURES CALCULATED?
This report uses total operations for the month listed, divided over the

days in the month.

WHAT ARE THE FRACTIONAL FLIGHTS?
Non-daily operations create fractional weekly service. In most cases

flights are rounded, but in the case of international service or markets

with low frequency, fractions are shown. If a flight operated 5 days out

of 7, it would show 0.8 flights.

WHY ARE THERE WEIRD FREQUENCIES IN FAR AWAY MONTHS FOR LCCs?
Most airlines publish schedules 11 months in advance. This report covers

the next 9 months. That avoids seeing schedules as they are loaded.

Several LCCs load their schedules less than 9 months into the future.

Their schedules may also end mid-month. If B6 loads their schedule until

Jan15, all flights in Janaury will show half frequency because of the

way the report is created.

WHY IS A WHOLE AIRLINE'S SCHEDULE SHOWN AS CHANGING FOR A FUTURE MONTH?
Similarly to the previous question, some airlines load their schedule

from nothing inside the 9 month window of this report. When their

schedule is extended it will show as new service because there was no

previous schedule to compare to. In some instances I will show a more

valid comparison against another period.

THOSE FLIGHTS AREN'T DELTA, THEY ARE PINNACLE
This report only shows the marketing code. It is too complicated to show

all the operators.

THE FREQUENCIES MAY HAVE CHANGED AS YOU SHOW, BUT THE SEATS DIDNT CHANGE

BECAUSE OF EQUIPMENT SWAPS
That is a natural weakness of a frequency based report, but it provides

something to discuss below.

THE FREQUENCY DOESN'T SHOW A CHANGE, E.G. 4>4
This happens as a result of rounding. There is a change in service that

is large enough to be listed, but through rounding it does not appear.

I marked some of the ones I thought were interesting with an "*".

3E BRL-ORD JAN 0.5>2 FEB 0>3
3E BRL-STL NOV 1.7>3 DEC 1.7>3 JAN 0.5>3 FEB 0>3
3E DEC-ORD JAN 0.8>3 FEB 0>3
3E DEC-STL JAN 0.8>3 FEB 0>3

AA DFW-ATL DEC 12>11
AA DFW-BNA NOV 8>7
AA DFW-CLT NOV 7>6
AA DFW-ELP NOV 8>7
AA DFW-MEM NOV 4>3
AA DFW-MSP NOV 6>5
AA DFW-MTY NOV 4>3
AA DFW-NRT NOV 1.9>1.4
AA DFW-SAT NOV 15>14 DEC 15>14
AA DFW-SCL NOV 1.2>1.0 DEC 1.4>1.2
AA DFW-XNA NOV 9>8
AA JFK-DFW NOV 1.5>1.0
AA JFK-NRT NOV 1.0>0.7
AA JFK-STI NOV 1.0>0.7
AA LAX-JFK NOV 10>9
AA LAX-PVG NOV 0.9>0.8
AA LAX-SJD NOV 1.3>1.0
AA LAX-TUS FEB 3>4 MAR 3>4 APR 3>4 MAY 3>4 JUN 3>4
AA MIA-BOG NOV 3>1.7
AA MIA-GGT FEB 1.3>1.9 MAR 1.3>2 APR 1.3>2 MAY 1.3>2 JUN 1.3>2
AA MIA-GRU NOV 4>3
AA MIA-SDQ NOV 4>3
AA ORD-DCA DEC 9>8
AA ORD-MSN FEB 4>5 MAR 4>5

AM ORD-ZCL JAN 0.1>0.4 FEB 0>0.4 MAR 0>0.5 APR 0>0.4 MAY 0>0.4 JUN 0>0.4

AS ANC-OGG APR 0>0.1
AS OGG-ANC APR 0>0.1
More and more Hawaii
*AS PDX-OGG MAR 1.0>1.4 APR 1.0>1.6 MAY 1.0>1.5 JUN 1.0>1.4
AS PDX-SJC MAR 6>5 APR 6>5 MAY 6>5

B6 BOS-AUA MAR 1.8>1.6 APR 1.5>1.4
IAD is getting worse and worse for all the LCCs.
*B6 BOS-IAD MAR 5>4 APR 5>4
B6 BOS-MBJ MAR 0.2>0.3 APR 0.1>0.3
B6 BOS-NAS APR 1.3>1.0
NK's competition hasn't inspired more capacity.
*B6 BOS-ORD JAN 3>1.9
B6 BOS-PBI FEB 6>5 MAR 6>5 APR 6>5
B6 BOS-PLS JAN 0.3>0.4 FEB 0.4>0.5
B6 BOS-SDQ APR 0.6>0.7
B6 BOS-SJC JAN 0.6>0.1 APR 0.7>0
B6 BOS-SJU FEB 4>3 MAR 4>3 APR 4>3
B6 EWR-RSW FEB 1.5>1.0 MAR 2>1.0 APR 2>1.0
B6 FLL-IAD MAR 3>1.8 APR 3>1.9
Interesting to see this cut in peak
*B6 HPN-RSW FEB 1.5>1.0 MAR 2>1.0 APR 2>1.0
Basically out of the market in January only, but it must be in danger of

complete cancellation.
*B6 IAD-OAK JAN 0.5>0.1
B6 JFK-AUA MAR 3>2 APR 3>1.9
B6 JFK-BQN FEB 3>1.9
B6 JFK-CUN MAR 1.6>1.7
B6 JFK-FLL JAN 10>9 FEB 12>11 MAR 12>11 APR 12>11
B6 JFK-PUJ MAR 1.4>1.3 APR 1.4>1.3
B6 LGB-OAK JAN 4>3
Wow, more IAD cuts and in Florida during PEAK
*B6 MCO-IAD MAR 3>2 APR 3>2
B6 MCO-PSE JAN 1.1>1.2
Probably related to WN taking over FL
*B6 MCO-PWM JAN 1.0>0.1 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0 APR 1.0>0

BA JFK-LHR MAR 7>8 APR 7>8 MAY 7>8 JUN 7>8
BA MIA-LHR MAR 2>3 APR 2>3 MAY 2>3 JUN 2>3

BTV SOL-CGK NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0

MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0

C2 ANN-BSG NOV 0>0.3 DEC 0>0.3 JAN 0>0.3 FEB 0>0.3 MAR 0>0.3 APR 0>0.3

MAY 0>0.3 JUN 0>0.3

CO CLE-YQB JUN 0.1>0
CO EYW-FLL NOV 3>4 DEC 3>4 JAN 3>4 FEB 3>4 MAR 3>4 APR 3>4 MAY 3>4 JUN

3>4
CO EYW-TPA NOV 3>4 DEC 3>5 JAN 3>5 FEB 3>5 MAR 3>5 APR 3>5 MAY 3>5 JUN

3>5
CO FLL-ASD DEC 0.2>0 JAN 0.1>0
*CO FLL-BIM NOV 1.0>1.8 DEC 1.0>2 JAN 1.0>2 FEB 1.0>3 MAR 1.0>2 APR

1.0>2 MAY 1.0>2 JUN 1.0>2
CO FLL-ELH NOV 1.6>1.8 DEC 1.7>2 JAN 1.7>2 FEB 1.8>3 MAR 1.7>2 APR 1.7>2

MAY 1.7>2 JUN 1.7>2
CO FLL-FPO NOV 5>6 DEC 5>6 JAN 5>6 FEB 5>6 MAR 5>6 APR 5>6 MAY 5>6 JUN

5>6
CO FLL-GGT NOV 1.0>1.2 DEC 1.0>1.3 JAN 1.0>1.3 FEB 1.0>1.3 MAR 1.0>1.3

APR 1.0>1.3 MAY 1.0>1.3 JUN 1.0>1.3
CO FLL-MHH NOV 4>1.8 DEC 4>2 JAN 4>2 FEB 4>3 MAR 4>2 APR 4>2 MAY 4>2 JUN

4>2
CO FLL-TCB NOV 1.7>0.8 DEC 2>1.5
C*O FLL-TLH NOV 1.6>3 DEC 1.5>3 JAN 1.6>3 FEB 1.6>3 MAR 1.5>3 APR 1.6>3

MAY 1.6>3 JUN 1.5>3
CO GUM-CTS JAN 0.5>0.8
CO IAH-ABQ MAR 6>5
CO IAH-CAE FEB 1.4>1.0
CO IAH-CLL JAN 6>7
CO IAH-LAS MAR 7>8
CO IAH-MLU MAR 4>3
CO IAH-ORF FEB 1.0>0.5
CO IAH-SEA FEB 7>6
CO IAH-TYS MAR 4>3 APR 4>3 MAY 4>3 JUN 4>3
*CO MCO-MHH NOV 0>0.7 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0

MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0
CO OGG-SNA DEC 0.6>0.1
CO ORD-IAH JAN 8>9
*CO PBI-FPO NOV 0>0.8 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0

MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0
*CO PBI-MHH NOV 1.8>1.0 DEC 2>1.0 JAN 2>1.0 FEB 3>1.0 MAR 2>1.0 APR

2>1.0 MAY 2>1.0 JUN 2>1.0
CO SNA-OGG DEC 0.6>0.1

DE LAS-FRA JUN 0.4>0.6

DL ATL-CLT APR 10>11 MAY 10>11
DL ATL-GCM APR 1.1>0.9 MAY 1.1>0.8
DL ATL-LHR MAR 1.1>1.0 APR 1.6>1.2
DL ATL-MHT FEB 1.5>1.0
DL ATL-PNS APR 9>8 MAY 9>8
DL ATL-PVR JUN 0.5>0.7
DL ATL-PWM FEB 1.5>1.0
DL ATL-RDU APR 11>12
DL ATL-ROA APR 5>6 MAY 5>6 JUN 5>6
DL ATL-SJD JUN 1.0>0.8
DL ATL-SJU JAN 6>5 FEB 6>5 MAR 6>5 APR 6>5 MAY 5>4 JUN 6>5
DL ATL-SXM MAR 1.2>1.0 APR 0.6>0.3 MAY 0.6>0.1 JUN 0.7>0.2
DL ATL-VPS MAR 8>9
DL ATW-MSP MAR 5>4 APR 5>4 MAY 5>4 JUN 5>4
DL BDL-RDU FEB 1.2>0.8
DL BOI-MSP MAY 2>3
*DL CVG-FLL FEB 1.5>1.0
*DL CVG-RSW FEB 1.5>1.0
*DL CVG-TPA FEB 1.5>1.0
*DL CVG-XNA MAR 1.8>0.8 APR 1.9>0.9 MAY 1.9>0.9 JUN 1.8>0.8
DL DTW-AVL FEB 1.5>1.0
DL DTW-BNA MAR 6>7
DL DTW-CUN APR 1.2>0.5 MAY 1.1>0.3 JUN 1.2>0.3
DL DTW-LHR MAR 1.1>1.0 APR 1.4>1.1
DL DTW-LIT MAR 1.8>0.8 APR 1.9>0.9 MAY 1.9>0.9
DL DTW-SFO MAR 3>4 APR 3>4 MAY 3>4
Score +1 for VX
*DL LAX-CUN JAN 1.0>0.1 FEB 1.0>0.1 MAR 1.0>0.2 APR 1.0>0.1 MAY 1.0>0.1

JUN 1.0>0.2
DL LGA-SAV FEB 1.5>1.0
*DL MEM-BTR FEB 1.5>1.0 MAR 1.8>1.0 APR 1.9>1.0 MAY 1.9>1.0 JUN 1.8>1.0
DL MEM-PHX JAN 1.0>0.7
*DL MEM-PNS MAR 3>1.8 APR 3>1.9 MAY 3>1.9
DL MEM-SHV JAN 1.2>1.9
DL MLI-MSP APR 3>2
*DL MSP-RIC MAR 1.0>0 APR 1.0>0
DL MSP-RSW APR 3>4
DL MSP-YEG FEB 4>3
DL SLC-RAP MAR 2.0>1.0 APR 2>1.0

The F9 comparison is YOY because it was a schedule extension and there was no prior schedule to compare to, so this represents all YOY changes for APR-JUN using their new schedule. I marked a few that I had not previously known about.
*F9 DEN-ABQ APR 5>4 MAY 5>3 JUN 5>3
F9 DEN-ANC MAY 0.6>0.5
*F9 DEN-ASE JUN 4>1.0
*F9 DEN-BOI APR 0.7>0.0
F9 DEN-DSM APR 0.8>1.9 MAY 0.9>2
F9 DEN-FSD APR 0>1.0 MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0
F9 DEN-GEG JUN 3>1.7
F9 DEN-LAS MAY 7>6 JUN 7>6
F9 DEN-LIT APR 0>0.9 MAY 0>0.9 JUN 0>0.8
F9 DEN-MSP JUN 5>4
F9 DEN-MZT APR 0.4>0.1
F9 DEN-PHF JUN 0.6>0.4
*F9 DEN-PHX APR 7>5
F9 DEN-PVU APR 0>1.0 MAY 0>1.0
F9 DEN-RSW MAY 0.5>0.1
F9 DEN-SAN MAY 5>4 JUN 6>4
F9 DEN-SBA APR 1.7>1.0 MAY 1.9>1.0 JUN 1.9>1.0
F9 DEN-SJO APR 1.0>0.6 MAY 0.7>0.5 JUN 0.9>0.6
F9 DEN-SLC JUN 6>5
F9 DEN-SMF APR 3>1.9 MAY 4>3 JUN 4>3
F9 DEN-TPA APR 1.4>1.0
F9 IWD-RHI APR 0.8>1.9 MAY 1.9>0.6 JUN 1.9>0
F9 LAX-OMA APR 0.4>0.2
F9 MCI-BOS JUN 1.6>0.9
F9 MCI-HOU APR 0>1.0 MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0
F9 MCI-LAS APR 0>0.9 MAY 0>0.9 JUN 0>0.8
F9 MCI-LAX APR 1.0>0.7 MAY 1.0>0.7 JUN 1.7>0.7
F9 MCI-LGA APR 3>1.9 MAY 3>1.9 JUN 3>1.8
F9 MCI-MSP JUN 1.6>0
F9 MCI-MSY APR 0.9>0.6 MAY 0.8>0.5
F9 MCI-SEA APR 1.0>0.6 MAY 0.9>0.6 JUN 1.0>0.6
F9 MCI-SFO APR 0.9>0.6 MAY 1.0>0.7 JUN 1.0>0.7
**F9 MKE-BOS APR 3>0.4 MAY 4>1.0 JUN 4>1.0
F9 MKE-CLE APR 1.5>0 MAY 1.3>0 JUN 1.6>0
F9 MKE-CMH APR 3>1.6 MAY 3>1.6 JUN 3>1.5
F9 MKE-CUN APR 0.3>0.1
F9 MKE-DAY APR 1.5>0 MAY 1.5>0 JUN 1.6>0
*F9 MKE-DCA APR 3>1.9 MAY 3>1.9 JUN 3>1.8
F9 MKE-DEN APR 5>4 MAY 6>4 JUN 6>4
F9 MKE-DFW APR 3>1.7 MAY 3>1.7 JUN 3>1.7
F9 MKE-DSM APR 3>0 MAY 3>0 JUN 3>0
F9 MKE-FLL APR 0.9>0.3
F9 MKE-FNT APR 3>1.7 MAY 3>1.7 JUN 3>1.7
F9 MKE-GRB APR 3>0 MAY 3>0 JUN 3>0
F9 MKE-GRR APR 4>1.7 MAY 4>1.7 JUN 4>1.7
F9 MKE-LGA APR 4>1.9 MAY 4>1.9 JUN 4>1.8
F9 MKE-MBL APR 0.8>1.9 MAY 1.9>0.6 JUN 1.9>0
F9 MKE-MCI APR 4>3 MAY 4>3 JUN 4>3
F9 MKE-MSN APR 4>0 MAY 4>0 JUN 4>0
F9 MKE-MSP APR 4>0 MAY 4>0 JUN 5>0
*F9 MKE-OMA APR 4>1.7 MAY 4>1.7 JUN 4>1.7
F9 MKE-PHL APR 3>1.2 MAY 3>1.7 JUN 3>1.7
F9 MKE-PHX APR 1.6>1.0
*F9 MKE-PIT APR 1.7>0 MAY 1.7>0 JUN 1.7>0
F9 MKE-RHI APR 0.8>1.9
F9 MKE-RSW APR 0.6>0.2

G4 ABE-SFB MAY 0.6>0.4
G4 ATW-LAS JUN 0.6>0.4
G4 ATW-SFB MAY 0.4>0.3 JUN 0.4>0.3
G4 AZA-BIS APR 0.6>0.4 MAY 0.5>0.3 JUN 0.6>0.3
G4 AZA-BLI APR 0.7>0.4 MAY 0.7>0.5 JUN 0.7>0.4
G4 AZA-CID APR 1.0>0.7 MAY 1.0>0.5 JUN 1.0>0.6
G4 AZA-EUG APR 0.6>0.3 MAY 0.6>0.3 JUN 0.6>0.3
G4 AZA-FAR APR 1.0>0.6 MAY 1.0>0.6 JUN 1.0>0.6
G4 AZA-GFK JUN 0.6>0.4
G4 AZA-GRR APR 0.6>0.4 MAY 0.5>0.3 JUN 0.6>0.3
G4 AZA-ICT APR 0.4>0.3 MAY 0.5>0.3 JUN 0.4>0.3
G4 AZA-MLI APR 0.7>0.5 MAY 0.7>0.5 JUN 0.7>0.4
G4 AZA-MSO APR 0.6>0.4 MAY 0.5>0.3 JUN 0.6>0.3
G4 AZA-PIA MAY 0.6>0.4 JUN 0.6>0.4
G4 AZA-RAP MAY 0.4>0.3 JUN 0.4>0.3
G4 AZA-SGF APR 0.4>0.3 MAY 0.5>0.3 JUN 0.4>0.3
G4 BIL-LAS JUN 0.6>0.4
G4 BIS-LAS APR 0.5>0.4 MAY 0.6>0.3 JUN 0.6>0.3
G4 BZN-LAS APR 0.6>0.4 MAY 0.5>0.3 JUN 0.6>0.3
G4 CID-LAS APR 0.9>0.6 MAY 0.8>0.5 JUN 0.9>0.6
G4 CID-PIE MAY 0.5>0.3 JUN 0.4>0.3
G4 CID-
 
User avatar
enilria
Topic Author
Posts: 6487
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:15 pm

G4 CID-SFB MAY 0.4>0.3 JUN 0.4>0.3
G4 DLH-SFB APR 0.4>0.3 MAY 0.5>0.3 JUN 0.4>0.3
G4 DSM-PIE APR 0.4>0.3 MAY 0.4>0.3 JUN 0.4>0.3
G4 DSM-SFB APR 0.4>0.3 MAY 0.4>0.3 JUN 0.4>0.3
G4 FAR-LAS APR 1.0>0.7 MAY 1.0>0.5 JUN 1.0>0.6
G4 FAR-SFB APR 0.4>0.3 MAY 0.4>0.3 JUN 0.4>0.3
G4 FCA-LAS APR 0.6>0.3 MAY 0.5>0.3 JUN 0.6>0.3
G4 FLL-GRR APR 0.6>0.4 MAY 0.5>0.3 JUN 0.6>0.3
G4 FLL-TYS APR 0.6>0.3 MAY 0.6>0.3 JUN 0.6>0.3
G4 FWA-PIE APR 0.8>0.6 MAY 0.9>0.5 JUN 0.9>0.4
G4 FWA-SFB APR 0.9>0.5 MAY 0.8>0.3 JUN 0.9>0.3
G4 GRR-PIE APR 0.6>0.4 MAY 0.5>0.3 JUN 0.6>0.3
G4 GRR-SFB APR 1.0>0.7 MAY 1.0>0.6 JUN 1.0>0.5
G4 GSP-PIE JUN 0.6>0.4
G4 HTS-SFB JUN 0.6>0.4
G4 ILM-SFB MAY 0.4>0.3 JUN 0.4>0.3
*G4 LAS-LGB DEC 1.7>0 JAN 1.7>0 FEB 1.8>0 MAR 1.7>0 APR 1.4>0 MAY 1.5>0

JUN 1.4>0
G4 LAS-MFR APR 0.6>0.3 MAY 0.5>0.3 JUN 0.6>0.3
G4 LAS-MLI APR 0.6>0.4 MAY 0.6>0.3 JUN 0.6>0.3
G4 LAS-RDM APR 0.6>0.3 MAY 0.5>0.3 JUN 0.6>0.3
G4 LAS-RFD JUN 0.6>0.4
G4 LAS-XNA APR 0.4>0.3 MAY 0.5>0.3 JUN 0.4>0.3
G4 LAX-MFR APR 0.6>0.3 MAY 0.5>0.3 JUN 0.6>0.3
G4 LEX-PIE MAY 0.4>0.3 JUN 0.4>0.3
G4 PGD-TYS MAY 0.5>0.3 JUN 0.4>0.3
G4 PIA-PIE MAY 0.7>0.4 JUN 0.7>0.4
G4 PIE-RFD APR 0.7>0.5 MAY 0.7>0.4 JUN 0.7>0.4
G4 PIE-SBN MAY 1.0>0.7 JUN 1.0>0.7
G4 PIE-SGF APR 0.4>0.3 MAY 0.5>0.3 JUN 0.4>0.3
G4 PIE-TOL JUN 0.7>0.5
G4 RFD-SFB MAY 1.0>0.7 JUN 1.0>0.7
G4 SFB-TOL MAY 0.7>0.4 JUN 0.7>0.4
G4 SFB-TYS MAY 0.9>0.6 JUN 0.9>0.6

KE LAX-ICN NOV 4>3 JAN 4>3

LH ATL-FRA FEB 1.0>0.9
LH CLT-MUC FEB 0.9>0.8
LH JFK-FRA JAN 2.0>1.8
LH JFK-MUC FEB 0.9>0.8
LH SEA-FRA JAN 1.0>0.9

NK FLL-MDE FEB 1.0>0.9 MAR 1.0>0.8 APR 1.0>0.9
NK FLL-ZSA JAN 0>0.1 FEB 0>0.1 MAR 0>0.2 APR 0>0.1

PD BTV-YTZ DEC 0>0.2 JAN 0>0.3 FEB 0>0.3 MAR 0>0.3

SS MIA-ORY MAR 0.1>0.5 APR 0>0.4 MAY 0>0.4 JUN 0>0.4

SU LAX-SVO JUN 0.6>0.7

Pretty substantial network cut for JAN. DEN looks hit somewhat equally

to ORD. IAD is barely touched.
UA CKB-MGW JAN 1.5>0.8
UA DEN-ABQ JAN 7>5 FEB 7>6
UA DEN-ASE JAN 12>10 FEB 12>11
UA DEN-BOI JAN 6>5
UA DEN-BOS JAN 4>3
UA DEN-CLE JAN 0.6>0.1 FEB 0.6>0.3
UA DEN-CUN JAN 0.7>0.6
UA DEN-DAL JAN 3>1.6
UA DEN-DFW JAN 6>5
UA DEN-DTW JAN 1.9>1.1
UA DEN-EGE JAN 3>5 FEB 3>4
UA DEN-GJT JAN 7>6
UA DEN-HLN JAN 1.9>1.1
UA DEN-HSV JAN 1.9>1.1
UA DEN-MCI JAN 6>7
UA DEN-MCO JAN 4>3
UA DEN-MEM JAN 1.9>1.1
UA DEN-MSO JAN 4>3
UA DEN-OKC JAN 5>4
UA DEN-OMA JAN 6>5
UA DEN-ONT JAN 3>1.9
UA DEN-RAP JAN 7>5 FEB 7>6
UA DEN-SAT JAN 4>3
UA DEN-SJC JAN 5>4
UA DEN-SJD JAN 0.3>0.2
UA DEN-SNA JAN 5>4
UA DEN-STL JAN 5>4
UA DEN-TPA JAN 2>1.1 FEB 3>1.5
UA DEN-XNA JAN 1.8>0.9 FEB 1.9>1.4
UA DEN-YEG JAN 3>4
UA DEN-YQR JAN 2>1.9
UA DEN-YVR JAN 2>1.9
UA DEN-YYZ DEC 1.8>2.0
UA IAD-BOS JAN 6>5
UA IAD-BUF JAN 4>3
UA IAD-DAY JAN 4>3
UA IAD-DTW JAN 4>3
UA IAD-JST JAN 1.5>0.9
UA IAD-MHT JAN 2>1.0 FEB 3>1.5
UA IAD-YYZ JAN 6>5
UA LAX-ABQ JAN 3>1.6
UA LAX-BOS JAN 1.6>1.1
UA LAX-DEN JAN 9>8
UA LAX-ELP JAN 1.9>1.0 FEB 3>1.5
UA LAX-HNL JAN 4>3
UA LAX-LAS JAN 5>4
UA LAX-OGG FEB 4>3
UA LAX-SEA JAN 4>3
UA LAX-YVR JAN 1.7>1.1 FEB 1.8>1.4
UA ORD-ABE JAN 4>3
UA ORD-ALB JAN 4>3
UA ORD-ATL JAN 6>8
UA ORD-BOI JAN 1.9>1.0 FEB 3>1.5
UA ORD-BOS JAN 9>7 FEB 9>8
UA ORD-BTV JAN 4>3
UA ORD-BUF JAN 5>4 FEB 6>5
UA ORD-BWI JAN 6>4 FEB 6>5
UA ORD-CHS JAN 4>3
UA ORD-CID JAN 6>5
UA ORD-CZM JAN 0.1>0
UA ORD-ELP JAN 2>1.1 FEB 3>1.5
UA ORD-GSO JAN 5>4
UA ORD-GSP JAN 4>3
UA ORD-HSV JAN 1.5>1.0
UA ORD-LAS JAN 5>3 FEB 5>4
UA ORD-MDT JAN 6>4 FEB 6>5
UA ORD-MHT JAN 3>1.9
UA ORD-MSN JAN 8>7
UA ORD-MSP JAN 11>9 FEB 12>11
UA ORD-PWM JAN 3>1.9
UA ORD-RIC JAN 6>5
UA ORD-ROC JAN 6>4 FEB 6>5
UA ORD-SAN JAN 5>4
UA ORD-SAV JAN 4>3
UA ORD-SEA JAN 6>4 FEB 6>5
UA ORD-SLC JAN 4>3
UA ORD-SMF JAN 1.9>1.1
UA ORD-SYR JAN 5>4
UA ORD-TUL JAN 5>4
UA ORD-YEG JAN 3>2
UA ORD-YUL JAN 4>3
UA ORD-YVR FEB 4>3
UA ORD-YWG JAN 5>4
UA ORD-YYZ FEB 7>6
UA SFO-ACV JAN 7>6
UA SFO-EUG JAN 7>6
UA SFO-JFK JAN 7>6
UA SFO-KOA JAN 2>1.7 FEB 3>1.9
UA SFO-MFR JAN 7>6
UA SFO-SAN JAN 9>7 FEB 9>8
UA SFO-SEA JAN 8>7
UA SFO-YVR FEB 5>4
UA SFO-YYJ JAN 2>1.1 FEB 3>1.5

UX MIA-MAD NOV 0.6>0.3 DEC 0.5>0.3 JAN 0.6>0.1 FEB 0.6>0 MAR 0.5>0 APR

0.6>0 MAY 0.5>0 JUN 0.6>0

VB IAH-MTY NOV 0.6>0.4 APR 0.4>0.3 MAY 0.4>0.3 JUN 0.4>0.3
VB LAS-MTY JAN 0.3>0.5 APR 0.3>0.1 MAY 0.3>0.2 JUN 0.3>0.1
VB SAT-MTY APR 0.4>0.3 MAY 0.5>0.3 JUN 0.4>0.3
 
WA707atMSP
Posts: 1485
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:26 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Score +1 for VX
*DL LAX-CUN JAN 1.0>0.1 FEB 1.0>0.1 MAR 1.0>0.2 APR 1.0>0.1 MAY 1.0>0.1

And, score another MISS for DL's dartboard at LAX!
Seaholm Maples are #1!
 
apodino
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:44 pm

I know its an outstation for UA, but BOS is losing a couple of freqs right after Smiseks SOC target date. The amount that seems to be cut would be one gate worth of flights for one day. Could indicate that a temporary combination in C is likely until Massport can figure out what else to do with them.

Still, seems like a lot of cuts at both DEN and ORD. DEN isn't surprising with WN and F9 competing there, but ORD is a bit surprising given AA's pulldown recently as well.

I can't explain the failure of LCC's in IAD though. Everything on paper about that airport indicates that it should be prime for LCC success, aside from the UA hub, which functionally is really a European gateway with a bit of N/S connecting traffic and doesn't facilitate the connections that ORD and IAH do, and isn't really as important domestically as other hubs are. Then again, with the focus on international flying that Smisek is taking UA, that could also explain why IAD and SFO were spared a lot of the cuts seen at DEN and ORD.
 
HVNandrew
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:46 pm

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 2):
And, score another MISS for DL's dartboard at LAX!

How is CUN a "dartboard" destination from LAX? DL has been flying this route for years and years, sometimes on a daily and sometimes on a weekly basis.
 
HPRamper
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:54 pm

Looks like F9 is finally realizing what a money pit MKE is.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:01 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL MSP-RIC MAR 1.0>0 APR 1.0>0

This route has been seasonal since NW started back about 5-6 years ago. It used to be flown with a CRJ but was upgaged to a 76 seater based on DL's self-imposed limit on 50 seat RJs.

It ends for the season in November, then comes back briefly over the holidays.

The long/thin nature of this route and the fact it needs to be flown with a 2-class RJs ultimately is probably why DL isn't going to bring it back in the spring.

Quoting HVNandrew (Reply 4):
How is CUN a "dartboard" destination from LAX? DL has been flying this route for years and years, sometimes on a daily and sometimes on a weekly basis.

Exactly.

If anything this is more of a reflection on CUN and DL's strategy with that market, not LAX. DL has pulled down a significant amount of capacity out of CUN for the upcoming winter versus prior years. I would be interested to see that comparison.
 
ordbosewr
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:09 pm

As always, thanks this is great.

Quoting apodino (Reply 3):

I know its an outstation for UA, but BOS is losing a couple of freqs right after Smiseks SOC target date. The amount that seems to be cut would be one gate worth of flights for one day. Could indicate that a temporary combination in C is likely until Massport can figure out what else to do with them.

Do we know for sure that these are not part of the now famous 3rd schedule that CO & UA have with OAG to fit with the CO scope clause issue?
I mean I wouldn't expect that many of them as they traditionally fall under PMUA routes so those should be unaffected, but we never know right.

Last, could some of these cuts be coming due to all of the planes that are going to be pulled for painting (PMUA) and E+ additions (PMCO) and reconfigs (PMUA and PMCO 767's). That alone would a lot of lost capacity.
 
SANFan
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:34 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AA JFK-DFW NOV 1.5>1.0
AA JFK-NRT NOV 1.0>0.7
AA JFK-STI NOV 1.0>0.7
AA LAX-JFK NOV 10>9

Every JFK listing is a decrease in service; and has been for a while now I believe. Wow...

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*AS PDX-OGG MAR 1.0>1.4 APR 1.0>1.6 MAY 1.0>1.5 JUN 1.0>1.4

Don't forget that HA cancelled their PDX-OGG service as of next January. I would be surprised if AS didn't do this!

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 DEN-SAN MAY 5>4 JUN 6>4

Hard to believe. No, wait, nothing is hard to believe any more. (But May and June are a long ways off.)

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 LAX-OMA APR 0.4>0.2

Since you did not list SAN-OMA as changed from last year, I will assume that service must show with OAG as unchanged for 2012 as compared with 2011?

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 5):
Looks like F9 is finally realizing what a money pit MKE is

Yes, I see no MKE-West Coast of any variety for next summer....

bb
 
BD338
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:08 pm

Ah, another week and my personally much wanted SLC-EWR on UA/CO has still not appeared   I continue to hope!

Excellent job, as always putting this data together.
 
MAH4546
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:24 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 8):
Every JFK listing is a decrease in service; and has been for a while now I believe. Wow...

Notice how it is all November only? This is related to the sever pilot shortage. JFK hasnt been seeing cuts not related to the pilot shortage other than JFKAUS going seasonal.
a.
 
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enilria
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:32 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 3):
Still, seems like a lot of cuts at both DEN and ORD. DEN isn't surprising with WN and F9 competing there, but ORD is a bit surprising given AA's pulldown recently as well.

I think the fact that UA also cut ORD makes the DEN cuts less meaningful.

Quoting apodino (Reply 3):
I can't explain the failure of LCC's in IAD though.

I think there are two reasons. a) DCA has LCC service to Florida and b) UA has taken over control of the market since FLYI died.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 5):
Looks like F9 is finally realizing what a money pit MKE is.

In spades.

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 2):
And, score another MISS for DL's dartboard at LAX!
Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 6):
If anything this is more of a reflection on CUN and DL's strategy with that market,

First, I give credit to DL for trying things that other won't even if they fail. I don't give DL credit for running F9 out of MSP-MCI as that behavior is anti-competitive.

Anyway, I suspect the real story is that the route is long and low-yield and oil is up/down. I'm sure that VX is a major factor, though.

Quoting ORDBOSEWR (Reply 7):
As always, thanks this is great.

Thanks. There was some good stuff this week.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 8):
Every JFK listing is a decrease in service; and has been for a while now I believe. Wow...

I think that may be happening because of a crew shortage.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 8):
Since you did not list SAN-OMA as changed from last year, I will assume that service must show with OAG as unchanged for 2012 as compared with 2011?

The change was too few freqs to show up. SAN-OMA is not loaded for sale.  
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:40 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 1):
UA ORD-MDT JAN 6>4 FEB 6>5

I was on one of those mega travel web sites -- plugged in "All Washington Airports" as my starting point -- and MDT started coming up as the cheapest originating Washington airport.

But MDT is also a Baltimore and a Philadelphia airport. How did they pull this all off?

----------------------------------------------------------------

In any case, it good to see airlines backfilling against the predicted loss of FL service.
 
boberito6589
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:52 pm

No US changes? This is the week that OO is supposed to replace YV in the schedule. I guess there aren't any frequency changes or we just didn't get it filed in time?
 
tommy767
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:59 pm

Quoting BD338 (Reply 9):
Ah, another week and my personally much wanted SLC-EWR on UA/CO has still not appeared I continue to hope!

Excellent job, as always putting this data together.

DL trimmed EWR-SLC from 1.6 to 1.2 for the winter. Doesn't make sense for UA/CO to add back this routing.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
phllax
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:20 pm

The UA January changes may just be during low time and allow them to get the cabin refresh done on the PMUA Airbus fleet and finish painting.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:08 pm

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 2):

There we go. We have a winner!   if you've been paying attention to DL's recent trends (probably not which is evident in your comment), they've all but pulled out of the P2P CUN market. This has everything to do with Cancun and very little to do with the airliners.net self-proclaimed Delta LAX "dartboard"...
What gets measured gets done.
 
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enilria
Topic Author
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:09 pm

Quoting boberito6589 (Reply 13):
No US changes? This is the week that OO is supposed to replace YV in the schedule. I guess there aren't any frequency changes or we just didn't get it filed in time?

This report catches changes that were submitted by Sat night I believe.
 
NWADC9
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:18 am

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*F9 MKE-PIT APR 1.7>0 MAY 1.7>0 JUN 1.7>0

Wait, F9's pulling out of PIT? This sucks!
Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
 
mikesairways
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:02 am

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
B6 BOS-SJC JAN 0.6>0.1 APR 0.7>0

Boo.. I thought this flight was doing good.
The red zone is for the immediate loading and unloading of passengers only, there is no stopping in the white zone...(Ai
 
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RWA380
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:05 am

I wish AS would have used the additional service to OGG and offered a PDX-LIH flight, or done PDX-OGG 2X daily and tagged it with LIH & KOA 3/4 times a week.
Next Flights: PDX-HNL-OGG-LIH-PDX On AS, WP & HA
 
bobnwa
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:52 am

Quoting mikesairways (Reply 19):
Boo.. I thought this flight was doing good.

Where did you get your info, that it was doing well?
 
chopchop767
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:04 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL DTW-LHR MAR 1.1>1.0 APR 1.4>1.1
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL ATL-LHR MAR 1.1>1.0 APR 1.6>1.2

I realize that it's winter and all, but I'm surprised to see DL cutting Heathrow routes. I'm fairly certain that UA swaps planes for a few flights during the winter months, 747 to 777 or 767, but the schedule remains the same.
this year: nap, lgw, fra, dub, fco, add, jib, muc, iad, sea, dca, bos, cdg, ist, bah, prg, ord, hsv, cmn
 
blr380
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:06 pm

Not a good week for PWM. First, FL terminated their flights to ATL and MCO. Now, B6 joins the club as well. All this happens a week after the airport expanded with new gates. I hope G4 will try this station since the closest place they currently serve is BGR. I am sure G4 will have no problems filling their planes with the number of tourists visiting Maine (in summer) and also those begging to get some sun in winter.
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:27 pm

Quoting mikesairways (Reply 19):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
B6 BOS-SJC JAN 0.6>0.1 APR 0.7>0

Boo.. I thought this flight was doing good.

Any chance of AS trying NerdBird II?
 
ckfred
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:50 pm

The AA cuts I understand. Much of it is related to the pilot retirements of September and October. Although I'm a little surprised that ORD had no cuts, and ORD-MSN gets an extra frequency. Is this based on the fact that ORD has had some large cuts in the past, and thus doesn't have extra flights to give up? Or has the effects of the pilot retirements been more pronounced at crew bases other than ORD.

The UA cuts at ORD are hard to figure. What really sticks out is UA adding 2 frequencies on ORD-ATL. Is UA deciding to fight DL on that route? AA has traditional been more willing to fight DL on DFW-ATL, rather than ORD-ATL.
 
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enilria
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:22 pm

Quoting NWADC9 (Reply 18):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*F9 MKE-PIT APR 1.7>0 MAY 1.7>0 JUN 1.7>0
Wait, F9's pulling out of PIT? This sucks!

Yup. All the E145s are going away.

Quoting mikesairways (Reply 19):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
B6 BOS-SJC JAN 0.6>0.1 APR 0.7>0
Boo.. I thought this flight was doing good.

It's odd that they won't fly it at all in April. I assume it returns in May, but yes it must be pretty awful to cut it that much.

Quoting chopchop767 (Reply 22):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL DTW-LHR MAR 1.1>1.0 APR 1.4>1.1
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL ATL-LHR MAR 1.1>1.0 APR 1.6>1.2
I realize that it's winter and all, but I'm surprised to see DL cutting Heathrow routes.

I believe they did a deal with another carrier to hold their slots for Winter and that is 1/2 of the issue. The other issue is that they are giving away MIA/BOS-LHR and it is hurting the hub flights. You can get connects over MIA/BOS very cheaply.

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 24):
Any chance of AS trying NerdBird II?

They are cutting the route back so I don't understand your comment.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 25):
The UA cuts at ORD are hard to figure. What really sticks out is UA adding 2 frequencies on ORD-ATL. Is UA deciding to fight DL on that route?

It's probably because of WN adding MDW-ATL. That will impact the CHI point of sale a lot more than AAI was.
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:25 pm

Quoting ckfred (Reply 25):
The UA cuts at ORD are hard to figure.

Not really, most of these cuts are being done for January/February...a period of extremely poor demand. Airlines are getting much more aggressive with matching capacity to demand even for very short windows of time.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:44 pm

Quoting chopchop767 (Reply 22):

DL has sort of an unwritten self-imposed rule that anything ex LHR gets flatbed seats which is why all routes save for one of the two Boston frequencies is on a 764. The only other options would be the 77E and 77L. Both are tied up in Asia and Africa. I think once more 763ER flatbed mods are complete, we will see better matching of freq and available seats. BOS needs to be downgraded to the 763 IMHO which was the plan from the beginning but mods started almost 6 months late.
What gets measured gets done.
 
miaami
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:53 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AA LAX-PVG NOV 0.9>0.8

Have to wonder how well this route is doing, or if this is just more about the pilot shortage for the 777.
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
Posts: 777
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:15 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 26):
Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 24):
Any chance of AS trying NerdBird II?

They are cutting the route back so I don't understand your comment.

AS doesn't currently fly SJC-BOS (two high-tech centers) but does fly to SEA and PDX from BOS. AS Nerd Bird I was their short-lived flight between AUS and SJC, after AA gave up the route, but they competed with WN's nonstop. I was only speculating whether AS might have interest in it if B6 is giving it up permanently.
 
n7371f
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:15 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 26):
Yup. All the E145s are going away.

No they're not. Chautauqua will continue to operate 6 ERJ's for the foreseeable future. The E135's are going away as are the ERJ's above the 6 currently flying.
 
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enilria
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:30 pm

Quoting miaami (Reply 29):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AA LAX-PVG NOV 0.9>0.8
Have to wonder how well this route is doing, or if this is just more about the pilot shortage for the 777.

Pilot shortage. I suspect it is moderate load factor, but high yield which is why they are using it for cuts.

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 30):
AS doesn't currently fly SJC-BOS

Ahh. I was confusing AA and AS in that post. My mistake.

Quoting n7371f (Reply 31):
Quoting enilria (Reply 26):
Yup. All the E145s are going away.

No they're not. Chautauqua will continue to operate 6 ERJ's for the foreseeable future. The E135's are going away as are the ERJ's above the 6 currently flying.

Really? I thought there was an internal memo posted which said they would all be gone by May 2012. Basically they were waiting for the EAS stations to play out before existing. If they are getting rid of them, why immediately dump the EAS flying they were just awarded months earlier?
 
ScottB
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:04 pm

Quoting n7371f (Reply 31):
Chautauqua will continue to operate 6 ERJ's for the foreseeable future.

They won't need six ERJ's once the EAS flying is dropped, and one of those six is only needed for a mid-afternoon round-trip. The remaining seven ERJ markets from MKE can likely be done with four aircraft if necessary, but that doesn't allow much slack.

Quoting mikesairways (Reply 19):
B6 BOS-SJC JAN 0.6>0.1 APR 0.7>0

Boo.. I thought this flight was doing good.

Tech companies don't do that much travel anymore. Most routine stuff can be done via teleconference for a lot less money.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL CVG-XNA MAR 1.8>0.8 APR 1.9>0.9 MAY 1.9>0.9 JUN 1.8>0.8

The funny thing is, I could see that route remaining even after CVG is de-hubbed -- it's the P&G-Walmart Express.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
B6 BOS-PBI FEB 6>5 MAR 6>5 APR 6>5
B6 BOS-SJU FEB 4>3 MAR 4>3 APR 4>3

Odd to see B6 reducing capacity in these two markets during the absolute peak season.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*F9 DEN-ABQ APR 5>4 MAY 5>3 JUN 5>3
F9 DEN-ANC MAY 0.6>0.5
*F9 DEN-ASE JUN 4>1.0
*F9 DEN-BOI APR 0.7>0.0
F9 DEN-DSM APR 0.8>1.9 MAY 0.9>2
F9 DEN-FSD APR 0>1.0 MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0
F9 DEN-GEG JUN 3>1.7
F9 DEN-LAS MAY 7>6 JUN 7>6
F9 DEN-LIT APR 0>0.9 MAY 0>0.9 JUN 0>0.8
F9 DEN-MSP JUN 5>4
F9 DEN-MZT APR 0.4>0.1
F9 DEN-PHF JUN 0.6>0.4
*F9 DEN-PHX APR 7>5
F9 DEN-PVU APR 0>1.0 MAY 0>1.0
F9 DEN-RSW MAY 0.5>0.1
F9 DEN-SAN MAY 5>4 JUN 6>4
F9 DEN-SBA APR 1.7>1.0 MAY 1.9>1.0 JUN 1.9>1.0
F9 DEN-SJO APR 1.0>0.6 MAY 0.7>0.5 JUN 0.9>0.6
F9 DEN-SLC JUN 6>5
F9 DEN-SMF APR 3>1.9 MAY 4>3 JUN 4>3
F9 DEN-TPA APR 1.4>1.0

There seem to be quite a few cuts out of DEN in big markets (i.e. top 15) like LAS, MSP, PHX, SAN & SLC. I wonder if they're beefing up DSM service in an attempt to preempt WN from adding it. And I see that the "season" for BOI has gotten shorter. One daily to SBA won't work in my opinion; while the drive to LAX or BUR is no fun, the frequency of cheap flights at those airports makes up for it.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
**F9 MKE-BOS APR 3>0.4 MAY 4>1.0 JUN 4>1.0

Completely uncompetitive with FL maintaining three daily round-trips.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 MKE-LGA APR 4>1.9 MAY 4>1.9 JUN 4>1.8

I wonder what they plan to do with the slots. Also uncompetitive with FL still scheduling five daily.

Quoting enilria (Reply 1):
UA LAX-BOS JAN 1.6>1.1

I don't think this sticks around long-term.
 
SANFan
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:05 pm

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 24):
Any chance of AS trying NerdBird II?

First, if the "nerds" wouldn't fly B6 nonstop between SJ and BOS, I don't know why they would fly AS. Sounds like the market just isn't there, not in the dead of winter anyway. I actually expect the flight probably will return with warmer weather in the East. Several of Blue's BOS-w/c nonstops see capacity decreases in the winter; in this case, the summer service is 1 flight so the winter decrease takes it to 0. (And, I'm sure those in SJC don't want to hear it, but there IS BOS-SFO service during the winter...)

Second, AS doesn't have the equipment sitting around for a transcon -- especially between 2 non-hub cities. SJC may or may not be considered a focus city for AS but at this point in time, I don't think there's enough feed thru SJ to help fill a n/s to BOS (and obviously B6 has seen that there's not enough local traffic to make the flight successful on its own.)

As I said, I would bet this is just a seasonal cut anyway and I expect the Blue flight will be back by May.

bb
 
smoot4208
Posts: 595
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:20 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL CVG-FLL FEB 1.5>1.0
*DL CVG-RSW FEB 1.5>1.0
*DL CVG-TPA FEB 1.5>1.0
*DL CVG-XNA MAR 1.8>0.8 APR 1.9>0.9 MAY 1.9>0.9 JUN 1.8>0.8

Are the CVG-Florida cuts only for February then? It looks XNA is permanently losing a flight.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
CO SNA-OGG DEC 0.6>0.1

SNA-HNL/OGG seem to be on almost gone. Both are down to just once a week and may even be seasonally. Perhaps this could be an entrance for F9 with their new SNA slot

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL MSP-RIC MAR 1.0>0 APR 1.0>0

Is the seasonal service just not starting back up at all, or are they just pushing back the start date of the service?
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:29 pm

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 35):
Are the CVG-Florida cuts only for February then? It looks XNA is permanently losing a flight.

I usually don't have much to say about DL and CVG but frankly, the offerings today is laughable. In all honesty, they need to go ahead and pull the plug and re-alocate the flying left to DTW and LGA. Of course the latter cannot come until everything is all said and done with the DOJ but I suspect it will come around.

But back to what I was saying; the little mainline flying that's left can really be used at DTW. The proportion of RJ vs. mainline flights at DTW is very lopsided compared to MSP and the gazillion pound gorilla, ATL. I think that's all they're waiting for at this point. 130+ slot pairs is a lot of flying and unfortunately, the resources has to come from somewhere. DL isn't exactly sitting fat on available mainline or large RJ a/c so something's telling me, that once everything's complete with the LGA slot swap, we'll see another very large wave of cuts at CVG to fund the flying.
What gets measured gets done.
 
SurfandSnow
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:28 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):

AM ORD-ZCL JAN 0.1>0.4 FEB 0>0.4 MAR 0>0.5 APR 0>0.4 MAY 0>0.4 JUN 0>0.4

And so, the battle for the CHI-ZCL market heats up! Another interesting showdown between AM and Y4 on a rather obscure VFR route...

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AS OGG-ANC APR 0>0.1
More and more Hawaii
*AS PDX-OGG MAR 1.0>1.4 APR 1.0>1.6 MAY 1.0>1.5 JUN 1.0>1.4

Well, the increase of PDX-OGG probably has more to do with HA dropping the route than anything.

As for ANC-OGG, I understand it is a seasonal route. Is it a Sat-only flight operated throughout the winter or what? What about ANC-HNL?

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
IAD is getting worse and worse for all the LCCs.
*B6 BOS-IAD MAR 5>4 APR 5>4

Let's not kid ourselves - IAD was probably never their first choice, or a stellar performer. It was simply the only way they could really grow in the D.C. market, given DCA's slot and perimeter restrictions, whilst BWI was a low-yielding battleground between WN and FL. Now that they have finally gotten in to DCA and started a full schedule BOS-DCA operation, this service is largely redundant. They really only need a handful of flights to serve local (Northern Virginia) O&D, while most everyone else will be much happier to use DCA.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
NK's competition hasn't inspired more capacity.
*B6 BOS-ORD JAN 3>1.9

No, but it's not like ORD was a raging success for B6 anyhow. They fought so hard to get in and arrived amid much fanfare, but have since struggled to make everything (JFK, LGB, and now BOS) work...

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
B6 BOS-SJC JAN 0.6>0.1 APR 0.7>0

Oh no! Looks like this route is a goner. Shame to see SJC lose another high profile service. I sure do hope JFK-SJC is doing well, or else B6 could drop SJC entirely. After all, they already tried SJC-LGB to no avail...

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Interesting to see this cut in peak
*B6 HPN-RSW FEB 1.5>1.0 MAR 2>1.0 APR 2>1.0

Hardly surprising. Florida's Gold Coast (East Coast) heavily caters to folks from the Northeast/East Coast - the vast majority of HPN fliers will be headed to the likes of PBI and FLL. Meanwhile, Florida's Gulf Coast (West Coast) is a haven for Midwesterners, hence the popularity of routes like MDW-SRQ and MSP-RSW. There is relatively little demand for services like this between the Northeast and Floridian Gulf Coast, or for that matter, between the Midwest and Floridian Gold Coast.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Basically out of the market in January only, but it must be in danger of

complete cancellation.
*B6 IAD-OAK JAN 0.5>0.1

I'm surprised they still fly this one at all, given their extreme lack of interest in both IAD and OAK lately. I guess they still have a somewhat loyal following in both markets or O&D on this route is strong. After all, UA did find reason to fly it for quite some time.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Wow, more IAD cuts and in Florida during PEAK
*B6 MCO-IAD MAR 3>2 APR 3>2

If B6 can get even one batch of DCA slots from the DL/US swap I would not be surprised to see all IAD-Florida flights shifted over to DCA. Even WN couldn't make IAD-Florida work, and I highly doubt B6 is doing too well in this realm either - particularly on this IAD-MCO route against UA (at least they have IAD-FLL all to themselves).

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Probably related to WN taking over FL
*B6 MCO-PWM JAN 1.0>0.1 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0 APR 1.0>0

So far there is absolutely no confirmation that PWM will be retained by WN. Perhaps it *could* be a rare victory for FL over B6 in a Northeast-Florida market, but if anything this simply proves that PWM is unable to support daily nonstop service to Florida (during the peak winter months, mind you). In fact, WN could very well view this as a sign that the market is just too small/weak to add to their network..

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
CO CLE-YQB JUN 0.1>0

Not surprised to see this route cut!

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*CO FLL-BIM NOV 1.0>1.8 DEC 1.0>2 JAN 1.0>2 FEB 1.0>3 MAR 1.0>2 APR
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
C*O FLL-TLH NOV 1.6>3 DEC 1.5>3 JAN 1.6>3 FEB 1.6>3 MAR 1.5>3 APR 1.6>3

Wow, a lot of increases in the Florida/Bahamas CO Connection network. I suppose the new UA may be quite committed to Florida and the Caribbean after all!

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
CO SNA-OGG DEC 0.6>0.1

The SNA-Hawaii routes seem to change on a weekly basis. I still can't figure out whether they will be kept post-integration or not. On one hand, you have a strong PMUA FF base in Orange County that CO couldn't really tap into. On the other hand, this route could cannibalize LAX-Hawaii traffic.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL CVG-FLL FEB 1.5>1.0
*DL CVG-RSW FEB 1.5>1.0
*DL CVG-TPA FEB 1.5>1.0
*DL CVG-XNA MAR 1.8>0.8 APR 1.9>0.9 MAY 1.9>0.9 JUN 1.8>0.8

It looks to me like the only permanent cut is CVG-XNA, so no need to get too excited. DL seems to be much more preoccupied with dehubbing MEM these days than CVG anyway. CVG could well remain a small hub for another year or so.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Score 1 for VX
*DL LAX-CUN JAN 1.0>0.1 FEB 1.0>0.1 MAR 1.0>0.2 APR 1.0>0.1 MAY 1.0>0.1

Score 1 for VX? LOL, I highly doubt they are making any money on the route either. DL is hardly concerned with flying this long, thin, low yielding leisure route daily when folks can easily be connected through ATL. I doubt they'll give up the scarce route authority, though!

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL MEM-BTR FEB 1.5>1.0 MAR 1.8>1.0 APR 1.9>1.0 MAY 1.9>1.0 JUN 1.8>1.0
DL MEM-PHX JAN 1.0>0.7
*DL MEM-PNS MAR 3>1.8 APR 3>1.9 MAY 3>1.9
DL MEM-SHV JAN 1.2>1.9

Well, it looks like MEM may very well lose its hub status sometime next year. Virtually every small and medium-sized Southeastern spoke has now been dropped or sharply reduced to the point that there is no longer enough feed for services to key (spoke) markets like PHX, SEA, BWI, SFO, RSW, etc.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*F9 DEN-ABQ APR 5>4 MAY 5>3 JUN 5>3

Makes sense. No need to fight WN on what, for them, is essentially a hub-hub route!

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*F9 DEN-BOI APR 0.7>0.0

Though I do not consider BOI to be a "seasonal" market by any means, it seems that BOI's season is now shorter than that for ANC (which is a classic seasonal market). Whatever works for F9, I suppose!

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 DEN-DSM APR 0.8>1.9 MAY 0.9>2

It seems like F9 has found quite a niche for itself at DSM. Since FL/WN seems committed to serving DSM (rather than quietly dropping the market with OO they bumped the marginal MKE-DSM route up to mainline, ostensibly to keep it in the network) I wonder what will happen if/when WN comes to town, probably with service to DEN...

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 DEN-LIT APR 0>0.9 MAY 0>0.9 JUN 0>0.8

I also wonder if WN has its eye on this route. Then again, recent additions at MCI may be proof that F9 no longer fears the wrath of WN.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 DEN-SBA APR 1.7>1.0 MAY 1.9>1.0 JUN 1.9>1.0
F9 DEN-SJO APR 1.0>0.6 MAY 0.7>0.5 JUN 0.9>0.6

Oh no, I would hate to see these unique routes struggling. Hopefully this is just a seasonal lull and not indicative of the bottom line...

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 LAX-OMA APR 0.4>0.2

I didn't realize they were still doing this one, I thought it was gone? Then again a quick check of the route map shows this route still there whilst OMA-SAN is no more.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 MCI-BOS JUN 1.6>0.9
F9 MCI-HOU APR 0>1.0 MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0
F9 MCI-LAS APR 0>0.9 MAY 0>0.9 JUN 0>0.8
F9 MCI-LAX APR 1.0>0.7 MAY 1.0>0.7 JUN 1.7>0.7
F9 MCI-LGA APR 3>1.9 MAY 3>1.9 JUN 3>1.8
F9 MCI-MSP JUN 1.6>0
F9 MCI-MSY APR 0.9>0.6 MAY 0.8>0.5
F9 MCI-SEA APR 1.0>0.6 MAY 0.9>0.6 JUN 1.0>0.6
F9 MCI-SFO APR 0.9>0.6 MAY 1.0>0.7 JUN 1.0>0.7

It appears they have finally found a sustainable way forward from MCI. These services should be very appealing to the local market.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
**F9 MKE-BOS APR 3>0.4 MAY 4>1.0 JUN 4>1.0

I am shocked that this route is doing so poorly, but then again FL/WN have not relented on it.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 MKE-CLE APR 1.5>0 MAY 1.3>0 JUN 1.6>0

This will mark the end of all F9 service to CLE, though DEN-CAK remains. I wonder if they would start MKE-CAK if FL/WN drops the route (in favor of MDW-CAK). Or perhaps a UA/CO drawdown of CLE would prompt F9 to resume this route...

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 MKE-DSM APR 3>0 MAY 3>0 JUN 3>0

Given their commitment to DSM, I'm surprised they are completely dropping this one. The good folks of DSM will easily be able to connect via DEN to places like SEA, LAX, etc. but what about those headed to LGA or DCA?

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 MKE-FNT APR 3>1.7 MAY 3>1.7 JUN 3>1.7

This is also surprising. FNT will now be one of the last RJ destinations from MKE. The airline has now ended split operations in Northern Ohio, but they will continue to serve Southeastern Michigan via two gateways. I doubt F9 has much interest in challenging DL on the MKE-DTW route, but maybe they are considering shifting DEN-DTW to FNT? I would imagine FL/WN dropping FNT (IMO likely since they were quick to abandon PHF) could well assist them in doing so.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 MKE-GRB APR 3>0 MAY 3>0 JUN 3>0

Since DEN-GRB is still on the route map, I assume they do plan to keep GRB in the network?

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*F9 MKE-PIT APR 1.7>0 MAY 1.7>0 JUN 1.7>0

I am surprised that F9 doesn't see reason to fly this, after FL/WN abandoned the route. This will mean no service between the sizable markets of MKE and PIT at all. It's a shame too because PIT now leaves the network and many (myself included) thought that MCI-PIT could be a great niche route to try.

Quoting enilria (Reply 1):
*G4 LAS-LGB DEC 1.7>0 JAN 1.7>0 FEB 1.8>0 MAR 1.7>0 APR 1.4>0 MAY 1.5>0

I imagine B6 crushed them on this route. While G4's LGB slots will be put to good use by B6, DL, and US (as per another thread), it's a shame that LGB won't be getting service to Hawaii.

Quoting enilria (Reply 1):
PD BTV-YTZ DEC 0>0.2 JAN 0>0.3 FEB 0>0.3 MAR 0>0.3

This seems like a very odd route to try. This route will face an uphill battle because the transborder taxes/fees and associated CBP hassles will make it very unattractive vs. YUL. Not to mention the pithy frequency of BTV vs. the convenient "shuttle" schedule to YUL.
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
ScottB
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:43 pm

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 35):
SNA-HNL/OGG seem to be on almost gone. Both are down to just once a week and may even be seasonally. Perhaps this could be an entrance for F9 with their new SNA slot

Not likely unless F9 goes to the expense of getting ETOPS certification -- and that's not an easy process. Costly, too, for a speculative entry into the Hawai'i market.

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 37):
Wow, a lot of increases in the Florida/Bahamas CO Connection network. I suppose the new UA may be quite committed to Florida and the Caribbean after all!

Gulfstream makes the marketing decisions on those routes, not UA/CO.

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 37):
There is relatively little demand for services like this between the Northeast and Floridian Gulf Coast

There is an exception in BOS-RSW -- largely stimulated by the fact that the Red Sox have Spring Training in Ft. Myers.
 
tommy767
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:45 pm

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 37):
Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 36):

I'm going to go ahead and say if the slot swap goes through, I'd expect a more faster pull down of MEM than CVG. CVG has the major business community to attend to, MEM doesn't have as much going for it in that sense. A real shame because I love the MEM hub.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
User avatar
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:52 pm

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 37):
This will mark the end of all F9 service to CLE, though DEN-CAK remains.

Scheduled service, yes. But the (Airbus) tails will still turn up at CLE.  

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:18 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 38):
Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 35):
SNA-HNL/OGG seem to be on almost gone. Both are down to just once a week and may even be seasonally. Perhaps this could be an entrance for F9 with their new SNA slot

Not likely unless F9 goes to the expense of getting ETOPS certification -- and that's not an easy process. Costly, too, for a speculative entry into the Hawai'i market.

AS can't economically do it either, or I bet they'd already be doing SNA-Hawaii. The 737-800s can't depart from SNA for Hawaii without blocking off seats for weight restrictions. The 737-700s can do it unrestricted, but AS's -700s aren't ETOPS equipped and it would not be cost effective to retrofit them.

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 37):
B6 BOS-SJC JAN 0.6>0.1 APR 0.7>0

Oh no! Looks like this route is a goner. Shame to see SJC lose another high profile service. I sure do hope JFK-SJC is doing well, or else B6 could drop SJC entirely. After all, they already tried SJC-LGB to no avail...

Don't forget that AA had 3 daily SJC-BOS and 4 daily SJC-JFK back around 2000. At least one of the SJC-JFK flights was a 762 also. That was back in the day........

I too would like to see AS pick up SJC-BOS as many of us hope that AS will develop SJC into more of a focus city or hub. Especially since AS dropped SJC-AUS, and didn't take the QX slots at SNA in which they could have started SJC-SNA, it's unclear what AS's long term plan for SJC is.
 
SurfandSnow
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:17 am

Quoting apodino (Reply 3):
I can't explain the failure of LCC's in IAD though. Everything on paper about that airport indicates that it should be prime for LCC success, aside from the UA hub, which functionally is really a European gateway with a bit of N/S connecting traffic and doesn't facilitate the connections that ORD and IAH do, and isn't really as important domestically as other hubs are.

The UA hub is *the* reason why the LCCs have failed at IAD. IAD is for all intents and purposes a fortress hub, akin to AA @ DFW and MIA, UA/CO @ IAH, DL at MSP, etc. These are all markets in which LCCs have had very little or no success against the dominant legacy carrier that benefits from tremendous loyalty and hub flow connectivity. B6 has to rely on relatively limited local O&D to fill its flights, whilst UA can easily fill its flights to Florida with all kinds of feed from the Northeast...

Quoting HVNandrew (Reply 4):
How is CUN a "dartboard" destination from LAX? DL has been flying this route for years and years, sometimes on a daily and sometimes on a weekly basis.

Exactly. I believe they have flown LAX-CUN longer than UA has, meaning they are the most established carrier on the route.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 5):
Looks like F9 is finally realizing what a money pit MKE is.

I think they realized that long ago. Now they are finally doing something about it.

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 6):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL MSP-RIC MAR 1.0>0 APR 1.0>0

This route has been seasonal since NW started back about 5-6 years ago. It used to be flown with a CRJ but was upgaged to a 76 seater based on DL's self-imposed limit on 50 seat RJs.

It ends for the season in November, then comes back briefly over the holidays.

The long/thin nature of this route and the fact it needs to be flown with a 2-class RJs ultimately is probably why DL isn't going to bring it back in the spring.

This route made sense back in the NW days, when MSP offered many unique connections that DTW could not. But now that ATL is an option, I don't see much need for this long, thin route.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 16):
if you've been paying attention to DL's recent trends (probably not which is evident in your comment), they've all but pulled out of the P2P CUN market. This has everything to do with Cancun and very little to do with the airliners.net self-proclaimed Delta LAX "dartboard"...

Have they actually dropped p2p routes, or just slashed frequencies (IIRC CVG-CUN and DTW-CUN have been drastically reduced)? These seasonal weekly routes are awfully hard to follow.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 20):
I wish AS would have used the additional service to OGG and offered a PDX-LIH flight, or done PDX-OGG 2X daily and tagged it with LIH & KOA 3/4 times a week.

Patience. AS just linked LIH with its established Hawaiian gateways at OAK and SJC. PDX-Hawaii is a relatively recent addition. Once they get established, we will probably see KOA go year round and LIH come online.

Any idea if ITO is in the cards? I can only imagine that something like SEA-OAK-ITO might just work. TZ seemed to do quite well on that OAK-ITO route.

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 24):
Any chance of AS trying NerdBird II?

My thoughts exactly. After long haul service from PDX was slashed they kept PDX-BOS going. I can only imagine that, with AA's SJC/Bay Area FF base at their disposal, routes like SJC-ORD, SJC-BOS, SJC-HNL, and dare I say SJC-DCA and SJC-MIA might just work!

Quoting ScottB (Reply 33):

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 MKE-LGA APR 4>1.9 MAY 4>1.9 JUN 4>1.8

I wonder what they plan to do with the slots. Also uncompetitive with FL still scheduling five daily.

FL/WN won't be flying MKE-LGA at that frequency much longer. Those LGA slots will almost certainly be reallocated to bolster frequency on MDW-LGA and possibly for new routes, like (daily) DEN-LGA, STL-LGA, etc. Though, I would not be surprised to see WN keep a token daily or twice daily MKE-LGA going just to make life for F9 difficult.

As for F9's LGA slots, their fate is anybody's guess. They may be interested in linking their heartland markets (i.e. DSM, MSN, GRR) with LGA.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 33):
Quoting enilria (Reply 1):
UA LAX-BOS JAN 1.6>1.1

I don't think this sticks around long-term.

Come on now, you can't be serious. It's not like B6 or VX are making notable inroads on this route (as they are on LAX-JFK, for example), and AA certainly isn't the major player in BOS that it used to be. UA certainly has enough loyalty in both markets, not to mention onward connectivity at its LAX hub, to keep this going. It is just too important a route to give up. This isn't the same as dropping LAX-EWR and LAX-PHL, because in those cases they opted to eliminate redundant capacity in favor of codesharing with the superior schedules of their alliance partners. As others have hinted, these cuts at BOS may simply be a means (temporary?) to achieve consolidation at BOS..

Quoting ScottB (Reply 33):
One daily to SBA won't work in my opinion; while the drive to LAX or BUR is no fun, the frequency of cheap flights at those airports makes up for it.

That rule really doesn't apply to SBA, which is a heavily leisure/VFR route that probably sees very little business traffic. If priced right, the O&D will favor the convenience of the service no matter what the frequency is.

For the record, BUR-DEN sees scant more service/frequency than SBA-DEN, and before WN started flying it a few months ago actually had less. As for LAX-DEN, well, that has got to be one of the most overserved routes in the country - especially now that DL has joined the foray.

Anyhow, back to SBA. The market is a prolific and wealthy one, but nevertheless quite small. F9's arrival actually drove DL right out of the market (they had served SLC for years), and AA's attempt at SBA-DFW with the CR7 didn't last long. Bottom line is that traffic is very limited, and not just when it comes to eastern flows - UAX doesn't even serve SFO with jets (its all EM2s these days), whilst QX's SMF service flopped. Expecting the market to support not one but two daily 99 seat E-190s was asking a lot - one seems about right to me.

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 35):

SNA-HNL/OGG seem to be on almost gone. Both are down to just once a week and may even be seasonally. Perhaps this could be an entrance for F9 with their new SNA slot

F9 does not have the aircraft to operate such a route. As far as I know the 73G is the only aircraft that can profitably do SNA-Hawaii, though I'm sure a 757 could do it too. Even if F9 had such planes - they might when the A320NEOs arrive, they lack the ETOPS certification to serve Hawaii anyway. F9 has no reason to spend the money getting ETOPS certified at this time, so Hawaii is out of the question for now.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 36):
I usually don't have much to say about DL and CVG but frankly, the offerings today is laughable.

Actually, compared to most U.S. markets of its size, CVG enjoys a very respectable level of service. The market was very spoiled by rampant overcapacity throughout the 90s and early 2000s (I can only imagine that nonstops to places like ANC, HNL, FCO, etc. were probably at least 80-90% full with connecting traffic), and is now seeing a much more reasonable realistic picture of what they can actually support. While the hub days are probably numbered, at least they are still a fully functional hub today. PIT and STL certainly can't say that.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 36):
But back to what I was saying; the little mainline flying that's left can really be used at DTW. The proportion of RJ vs. mainline flights at DTW is very lopsided compared to MSP and the gazillion pound gorilla, ATL. I think that's all they're waiting for at this point. 130+ slot pairs is a lot of flying and unfortunately, the resources has to come from somewhere. DL isn't exactly sitting fat on available mainline or large RJ a/c so something's telling me, that once everything's complete with the LGA slot swap, we'll see another very large wave of cuts at CVG to fund the flying.

Comparing the economic basketcase of Detroit with the relatively strong, stable markets of Atlanta and Minneapolis isn't really fair. Plus, somebody has to pay for the palatial digs at DTW - operating from the venerable facilities at MSP and ATL probably costs quite a bit less. Thus, I imagine DL prefers to route connections through the latter whenever possible - I imagine it is cheaper to send someone SEA-MSP-MCO or LAX-ATL-LGA than SEA-DTW-MCO/LAX-DTW-LGA, for example. Let's not forget that MSP is a geographically isolated market, quite a long drive from even the nearest major cities like Chicago and Kansas City - flying is necessary when you go almost anywhere from there. It is also very well suited to serving as the de facto gateway to the Dakotas and Montana, at least when coming from the East. Meanwhile, ATL is one of only hubs (the other being US's much smaller CLT operation) that effectively serves the entire Southeastern portion of the country. Compare that to DTW, which competes against nearby hubs big and small (i.e. ORD, MKE, CLE) for regional and transcon traffic flows, whilst going up against hubs throughout the country with stronger demographics and/or feed for transatlantic and transpacific traffic.

As you yourself suggest, it has been widely speculated on here that the LGA build up will be achieved primarily through major cuts at CVG and MEM. Most of the new LGA flights will be served by RJs, since DL has said it will serve all of the small markets US currently serves from the airport. Since CVG and MEM host a plethora of RJ service many see them as obvious targets, but DL could probably just as easily source the aircraft by scaling back p2p routes from focus cities (DCA of course, RDU, BOS, etc.), eliminating many redundant JFK flights, or simply upgrading enough routes to mainline from ATL, DTW, MSP, SLC, etc. to free up RJs for LGA. I suppose anything is possible, but there is still quite a bit of uncertainty/complexity when it comes to LGA - some slots must be auctioned off to LCCs, the formal transfer of slots between DL and US must be finalized, terminal modifications/transfers, etc. With respect to CVG/MEM, there are various contracts and obligations to the local authorities, employees, etc. that probably can't be dropped on a dime whenever a firm date is established for the slot swap. Plus, regional carriers can't just send CVG/MEM pilots used to sleepy heartland airports into the LGA lion's den overnight. Bottom line - I'd be very surprised to see CVG/MEM fully or mostly dehubbed in conjunction with the whole LGA expansion. I think their decline will continue to be very gradual, a la US at PIT and LAS. A LGA build up will probably also happen in several small waves, with the first one funded by all of the cuts at DCA.
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enilria
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:50 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 33):
The funny thing is, I could see that route remaining even after CVG is de-hubbed -- it's the P&G-Walmart Express.

I see your point, but the reality is that there can't be more than 5 or 6 business passengers per day for those two companies. If they are really sending 40 people every day then P&G needs to just open an office in XNA.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 33):
And I see that the "season" for BOI has gotten shorter.

LOL. DEN is suffering...

Quoting ScottB (Reply 33):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
**F9 MKE-BOS APR 3>0.4 MAY 4>1.0 JUN 4>1.0

Completely uncompetitive with FL maintaining three daily round-trips.

It's ridiculous is what it is. They will be out very soon.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 33):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 MKE-LGA APR 4>1.9 MAY 4>1.9 JUN 4>1.8

I wonder what they plan to do with the slots. Also uncompetitive with FL still scheduling five daily.

Same story. This is a huge deal. That's the linchpin to be relevant in MKE.

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 35):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL CVG-FLL FEB 1.5>1.0
*DL CVG-RSW FEB 1.5>1.0
*DL CVG-TPA FEB 1.5>1.0
*DL CVG-XNA MAR 1.8>0.8 APR 1.9>0.9 MAY 1.9>0.9 JUN 1.8>0.8

Are the CVG-Florida cuts only for February then? It looks XNA is permanently losing a flight.

YES, but remember these Florida markets get naturally cut after the March peak so it isn't extended into Spring because the capacity was already cut.

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 35):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL MSP-RIC MAR 1.0>0 APR 1.0>0

Is the seasonal service just not starting back up at all, or are they just pushing back the start date of the service?

Pushing back.

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 37):
Let's not kid ourselves - IAD was probably never their first choice, or a stellar performer. It was simply the only way they could really grow in the D.C. market

It was a land rush post-FLYi. Nobody succeeded except UA.

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 37):
No, but it's not like ORD was a raging success for B6 anyhow.

True dat

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 37):
I'm surprised they still fly this one at all

I agree. It will be gone soon.

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 37):
If B6 can get even one batch of DCA slots from the DL/US swap I would not be surprised to see all IAD-Florida flights shifted over to DCA.

I think they would love to close IAD, but if they leave BOS-IAD WN will fly it IMHO.

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 37):
Score 1 for VX? LOL, I highly doubt they are making any money on the route either.

I guess the point is that legacies rarely take pressure off VX.

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 37):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*F9 DEN-ABQ APR 5>4 MAY 5>3 JUN 5>3

Makes sense. No need to fight WN on what, for them, is essentially a hub-hub route!

It's a major route for such crappy freq. Also, it can connect East or West and 3RTs will connect like crap to everything.

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 37):
Whatever works for F9

..or nothing.

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 37):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 DEN-LIT APR 0>0.9 MAY 0>0.9 JUN 0>0.8

I also wonder if WN has its eye on this route.

I think that is a poster child for WN's F9 strategy. It's an obvious route for DEN, but hmmm...once F9 dropped it WN seemed to ignore it. Let's see now.

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 37):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 DEN-SBA APR 1.7>1.0 MAY 1.9>1.0 JUN 1.9>1.0
F9 DEN-SJO APR 1.0>0.6 MAY 0.7>0.5 JUN 0.9>0.6

Oh no, I would hate to see these unique routes struggling. Hopefully this is just a seasonal lull and not indicative of the bottom line...

SBA is gonna be bad with 1 RT. Also SJO is very expensive to operate non-daily because the crew has no overnight.

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 37):
I wonder if they would start MKE-CAK if FL/WN drops the route

I hope not. It would be awful and MKE is firmly in reverse gear.

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 37):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 MKE-GRB APR 3>0 MAY 3>0 JUN 3>0
Since DEN-GRB is still on the route map, I assume they do plan to keep GRB in the network?

To DEN I guess...

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 37):
Quoting enilria (Reply 1):
*G4 LAS-LGB DEC 1.7>0 JAN 1.7>0 FEB 1.8>0 MAR 1.7>0 APR 1.4>0 MAY 1.5>0
I imagine B6 crushed them on this route.

G4 won't waste money in pointless battles. They are smart.

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 37):
Quoting enilria (Reply 1):
PD BTV-YTZ DEC 0>0.2 JAN 0>0.3 FEB 0>0.3 MAR 0>0.3
This seems like a very odd route to try.

Agreed

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 39):
A real shame because I love the MEM hub.

I like an empty row of seats when I fly too.

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 39):
I'm going to go ahead and say if the slot swap goes through, I'd expect a more faster pull down of MEM than CVG.

It looks that way, but I don't know if there is enough left to take from MEM to fund it.

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 42):
FL/WN won't be flying MKE-LGA at that frequency much longer. Those LGA slots will almost certainly be reallocated to bolster frequency on MDW-LGA

I think they might leave it long enough to "deep 6" F9 on the route.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:16 am

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 42):
As you yourself suggest, it has been widely speculated on here that the LGA build up will be achieved primarily through major cuts at CVG and MEM. Most of the new LGA flights will be served by RJs, since DL has said it will serve all of the small markets US currently serves from the airport. Since CVG and MEM host a plethora of RJ service many see them as obvious targets, but DL could probably just as easily source the aircraft by scaling back p2p routes from focus cities (DCA of course, RDU, BOS, etc.), eliminating many redundant JFK flights, or simply upgrading enough routes to mainline from ATL, DTW, MSP, SLC, etc. to free up RJs for LGA. I suppose anything is possible, but there is still quite a bit of uncertainty/complexity when it comes to LGA - some slots must be auctioned off to LCCs, the formal transfer of slots between DL and US must be finalized, terminal modifications/transfers, etc. With respect to CVG/MEM, there are various contracts and obligations to the local authorities, employees, etc. that probably can't be dropped on a dime whenever a firm date is established for the slot swap. Plus, regional carriers can't just send CVG/MEM pilots used to sleepy heartland airports into the LGA lion's den overnight. Bottom line - I'd be very surprised to see CVG/MEM fully or mostly dehubbed in conjunction with the whole LGA expansion. I think their decline will continue to be very gradual, a la US at PIT and LAS. A LGA build up will probably also happen in several small waves, with the first one funded by all of the cuts at DCA.

I agree regarding CVG. It's worth pointing out that CVG has remained relatively stable over the past two years. DL reversed some of the huge mainline cuts they did a few years ago - in the summer of 2010 they added back mainline/larger regional jets to places such as LGA and BOS, and those changes have stuck since then. CVG has also kept all of its links to major western cities such as LAX (which is still 3x daily), LAS and SFO (both 2x daily), SAN, SEA, and PHX - all on mainline. I think that speaks to something that those routes can still stick around both in frequency and with their respective equipments - especially now given that MEM's westbound service is about to get hacked. And yes, DL can pull seats from markets other than CVG and MEM - RDU is probably the best example of that. Some of their P2P flying out of there really can make one scratch his head.

MEM is a little bit more concerning to me. That has been a very swift pulldown over the last year or so, especially with the most recent wave of cuts. It looks like that could go to a two bank operation sooner rather than later, and short of very internationally focused hubs/gateways (which clearly MEM is not), I don't think the track record on hubs structured in such a way is very good. I believe that after the next round of cuts are implemented, MEM will be the smallest hub in the DL system - even smaller than CVG.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:33 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 43):
I see your point, but the reality is that there can't be more than 5 or 6 business passengers per day for those two companies. If they are really sending 40 people every day then P&G needs to just open an office in XNA.

Interestingly, P&G does indeed have a pretty major office in Bentonville to serve their largest customer.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:49 pm

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 42):
With respect to CVG/MEM, there are various contracts and obligations to the local authorities, employees, etc. that probably can't be dropped on a dime whenever a firm date is established for the slot swap. Plus, regional carriers can't just send CVG/MEM pilots used to sleepy heartland airports into the LGA lion's den overnight. Bottom line - I'd be very surprised to see CVG/MEM fully or mostly dehubbed in conjunction with the whole LGA expansion. I think their decline will continue to be very gradual, a la US at PIT and LAS. A LGA build up will probably also happen in several small waves, with the first one funded by all of the cuts at DCA.

This is a key reason why the draw-downs have been gradual and targeted in nature. There are a lot of contracts and commitments that are either not easy to break/negotiate/terminate without a lot of cost involved. A lot of this capacity is just going to evaporate as DL continues to reduce its fleet of 50 seat RJs over the next several years.

Yes, some capacity will need to be redeployed to fund LGA, but there is plenty of slack in the current RJ fleet, there will be reductions in DCA, and yes they could pull from anywhere else in the system.

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 42):
Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 36):
But back to what I was saying; the little mainline flying that's left can really be used at DTW. The proportion of RJ vs. mainline flights at DTW is very lopsided compared to MSP and the gazillion pound gorilla, ATL. I think that's all they're waiting for at this point. 130+ slot pairs is a lot of flying and unfortunately, the resources has to come from somewhere. DL isn't exactly sitting fat on available mainline or large RJ a/c so something's telling me, that once everything's complete with the LGA slot swap, we'll see another very large wave of cuts at CVG to fund the flying.

Comparing the economic basketcase of Detroit with the relatively strong, stable markets of Atlanta and Minneapolis isn't really fair. Plus, somebody has to pay for the palatial digs at DTW - operating from the venerable facilities at MSP and ATL probably costs quite a bit less. Thus, I imagine DL prefers to route connections through the latter whenever possible -

The major reason why DTW sees so much RJ flying is because of the route structure. There are a ton of small and mid-sized cities that are Quoting HVNandrew (Reply 44):
I agree regarding CVG. It's worth pointing out that CVG has remained relatively stable over the past two years. DL reversed some of the huge mainline cuts they did a few years ago - in the summer of 2010 they added back mainline/larger regional jets to places such as LGA and BOS, and those changes have stuck since then. CVG has also kept all of its links to major western cities such as LAX (which is still 3x daily), LAS and SFO (both 2x daily), SAN, SEA, and PHX - all on mainline

DL has said they rebalanced CVG to compliment DTW. CVG's route structure now caters to the local market and provides additional capacity during times when more people want to fly. Plus, in many cases it provides the overall shortest transit time on certain routings to/from the east coast. Routings like SAN/LAX/DEN-(CVG)-BWI/LGA/EWR etc. are more optimally flown over CVG vs. ATL and in some cases faster than DTW.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:34 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 46):
rebalanced CVG
Quoting HVNandrew (Reply 44):
I agree regarding CVG. It's worth pointing out that CVG has remained relatively stable over the past two years.

I think it's very telling that the shrinking of CVG slowed down a lot when the LGA deal was put on hold. I think that tells me that the planes for it are housed there...probably not entirely, but many of them. They may be others in MCI and RDU, but we already know that they consider those routes more important than MEM/CVG since that is how they were funded.

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 45):
Interestingly, P&G does indeed have a pretty major office in Bentonville to serve their largest customer.

So, I'm sure it's only 5-6 P&G passengers per day. Imagine how much money even that represents.

One single night business trip:
Air ticket $500
Hotel $100
Ground Transport $100
Food $100
Total $800

6 passengers per day each way = 2,190 passengers per year

That's $1.8 million. If it were really 40 passengers per day all from P&G it would be $12 million per year. I sorely doubt they would spend more than a couple million on one business route each year.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:45 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 47):
Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 45):
Interestingly, P&G does indeed have a pretty major office in Bentonville to serve their largest customer.

So, I'm sure it's only 5-6 P&G passengers per day. Imagine how much money even that represents.

One single night business trip:
Air ticket $500
Hotel $100
Ground Transport $100
Food $100
Total $800

6 passengers per day each way = 2,190 passengers per year

All of P&G's sales people and IT support personnel who work with Wal Mart on a day in, day out basis reside in Bentonville, not Cincinnati.

I worked at P&G's office in Troy, Michigan, which had a similar function to P&G's Bentonville office, supporting P&G's business with KMart. This office closed when KMart merged with Sears, and relocated their headquarters to the Chicago area.

There were only about one or two employees / day who needed to fly between Troy and headquarters in Cincinnati - either Troy based employees who were going to Cincinnati for meetings, or Cincinnati based employees coming up to Troy.

Most communication between Troy and Cincinnati was done via fax, email, or teleconferencing.

I think it's reasonable to assume an average of 2 P&G passengers / day between CVG and XNA. Six seems unlikely, based on my experiences working for P&G.
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RE: OAG Changes 10/21/2011: AA/B6/CO/DL/F9/G4/UA

Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:55 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 27):
Quoting ckfred (Reply 25):
The UA cuts at ORD are hard to figure.

Not really, most of these cuts are being done for January/February...a period of extremely poor demand. Airlines are getting much more aggressive with matching capacity to demand even for very short windows of time.

Except everyone has been saying that UA will ramp up operations at ORD, just to run AA out of town for good.