User avatar
United787
Topic Author
Posts: 2197
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 12:20 pm

787 Production Thread Part 1

Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:23 pm

Now that 2 787s have been delivered, I would love to see a 787 thread similar to the A380 production thread:

A380 Production Thread #10 (by someone83 Aug 3 2011 in Civil Aviation)

I am industry outsider so I don't have a ton of information to add except what I read here and from this blog:

http://nyc787.blogspot.com/

So, to get things kicked off, the following is a summary of 787s:

Test Aircraft - 6 (Not Including Static Test Aircraft)
LN1-LN6

Delivered - 2
LN8 - ANA - 9/25/2011
LN24 - ANA - 10/13/2011

Final Preps for Delivery - 1
LN9 - ANA - (Next for Delivery)

Change Incorporation and Re-Work - 36 (Including 2 in San Antonio)
LN7
LN10-23
LN25-45

Final Assembly - 4 (Including 1 in Charleston)
LN46-49
 
starrion
Posts: 972
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2003 1:19 pm

787 Production Thread Part 1

Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:53 pm

Any idea on when LN9 delivers?

The last rumor I heard was 8 787's delivered this year. Other than 8,9 and 24 what are the other likely candidates?
Knowledge Replaces Fear
 
MEA-707
Posts: 3666
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 1999 4:51 am

787 Production Thread Part 1

Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:21 pm

apart from the 6 test aircraft and the 2 delivered aircraft, only 3 others have flown already (please correct me if there are more).
l/n 9 (ANA JA803A)
l/n 23 (JAL JA852J)
l/n 29 (AIC VT-AND)
They must hurry and get the other parked 787s in the air to reach 8 deliveries by the end of the year.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
justloveplanes
Posts: 867
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 5:38 am

787 Production Thread Part 1

Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:03 pm

What airlines are getting planes?
 
User avatar
frigatebird
Posts: 1172
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:02 pm

787 Production Thread Part 1

Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:52 pm

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 2):
apart from the 6 test aircraft and the 2 delivered aircraft, only 3 others have flown already (please correct me if there are more).
l/n 9 (ANA JA803A)
l/n 23 (JAL JA852J)
l/n 29 (AIC VT-AND)
They must hurry and get the other parked 787s in the air to reach 8 deliveries by the end of the year.

According to Flightblogger, LN7, 9, 31, 35, 40 and 41 were the most likely candidates to follow the first two. However, it seems that GEnx certification on the 787 is delayed and only RR planes will be delivered this year. Which means LN35 is out, and we will see only 787's in service for ANA for a while...

And apart from GEnx certification issues, it really depends on how much rework is needed on the 787 which have left FAL. The ones having recently left FAL don't have too much rework apparently, but some sources say it may take 1,5 years to clear all 787s which are littered all over PAE...
146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E90,F50/7
 
COEWR787
Posts: 300
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:35 pm

787 Production Thread Part 1

Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:55 pm

Does VT-AND still have engines? Or has it been parked sans engines while AI figures out where to find the money to pay for them?
 
User avatar
United787
Topic Author
Posts: 2197
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 12:20 pm

787 Production Thread Part 1

Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:01 pm

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 2):
apart from the 6 test aircraft and the 2 delivered aircraft, only 3 others have flown already (please correct me if there are more).
l/n 9 (ANA JA803A)
l/n 23 (JAL JA852J)
l/n 29 (AIC VT-AND)
They must hurry and get the other parked 787s in the air to reach 8 deliveries by the end of the year.

According to this, you are correct http://nyc787.blogspot.com/

I would imagine they are waiting to get the re-work completed before preparing for flight otherwise would they have to prep for flight twice, over simplified I am sure but is that correct? Unless they need to fly it to San Antonio to get the re-work completed...two of the three that have flown are in San Antonio and the third has completed re-work...so that seems to make sense.

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 4):
The ones having recently left FAL don't have too much rework apparently,

Are you sure? The UA 787 that just came out of the factory won't be delivered until the 2nd half of 2012...
 
NYC777
Posts: 5066
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

787 Production Thread Part 1

Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:22 pm

The key to deliveries is when each aircraft gets its engines. There are a few 787s at Everett that have their engines attached meaning that they maybe close to finishing up the change incorporation and re-work. I'm trying to find out wihch airplanes (other than the two in San Antonio) have engines. There is LN 35 and LN 33 and possibly LN 21.

Also I have been told not to expect any 787 deliveries in November. CXurrently Boeing is conducting F&R/ETOPs testing on the GEnx powered 787s after which it should receive type certification and allow those deliveries to start.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
User avatar
frigatebird
Posts: 1172
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:02 pm

787 Production Thread Part 1

Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:48 pm

Quoting United787 (Reply 6):
Quoting frigatebird (Reply 4):The ones having recently left FAL don't have too much rework apparently,
Are you sure? The UA 787 that just came out of the factory won't be delivered until the 2nd half of 2012...

That will more likely due to the backlog of rework on the earlier produced frames than on the UA bird itself... And as the GEnx 787 isn't certified yet, it has no use moving the 787 up the line either.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 7):
Also I have been told not to expect any 787 deliveries in November

OK, let's hope we will see a lot of 748Fs delivered in November then. December will be a busy month for Boeing, wrapping up all these 787s in Xmas paper  
Quoting NYC777 (Reply 7):
Currently Boeing is conducting F&R/ETOPs testing on the GEnx powered 787s after which it should receive type certification and allow those deliveries to start.

Any idea when these tests will be concluded?
146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E90,F50/7
 
starrion
Posts: 972
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2003 1:19 pm

787 Production Thread Part 1

Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:34 pm

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 8):
Quoting NYC777 (Reply 7):
Currently Boeing is conducting F&R/ETOPs testing on the GEnx powered 787s after which it should receive type certification and allow those deliveries to start.

Any idea when these tests will be concluded?

Boeing is flying the heck out of -5 and -6. Daily 7+ hour flights should build the time pretty quickly.
Knowledge Replaces Fear
 
Flyglobal
Posts: 336
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:25 am

787 Production Thread Part 1

Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:41 pm

Quoting United787 (Thread starter):
Now that 2 787s have been delivered, I would love to see a 787 thread similar to the A380 production thread:

A380 Production Thread #10 (by someone83 Aug 3 2011 in Civil Aviation)

I am industry outsider so I don't have a ton of information to add except what I read here and from this blog:

http://nyc787.blogspot.com/

So, to get things kicked off, the following is a summary of 787s:

Thank you for starting it - good idea and the right time to do so.

regards

Flyglobal
 
User avatar
PM
Posts: 4834
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

787 Production Thread Part 1

Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:40 am

Quoting United787 (Thread starter):
Now that 2 787s have been delivered, I would love to see a 787 thread similar to the A380 production thread.

Excellent idea. Thanks.
 
kaitak744
Posts: 2086
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:32 pm

787 Production Thread Part 1

Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:36 am

Important point to note:

Ln 7-19 are heavy versions of the 787. These are 13,500 pounds overweight. Of these planes, ANA is getting 8 of them. LAN is getting 2. Royal Air Maroc is getting 2.

The 787 from Ln 20 onwards will be incrementally lighter. LN 34 and LN 50 are block points for further weight reductions.
LN90 will be the first 787-8 meeting the aircraft’s original weight target.
 
avi8
Posts: 873
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:36 am

787 Production Thread Part 1

Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:47 pm

So ANA already has 2 787's. When will more be delivered. I never seem to understand that
avi8

Medschool student
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23095
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

787 Production Thread Part 1

Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:09 pm

Quoting Avi8 (Reply 13):
So ANA already has 2 787's. When will more be delivered.

They should have their third ( JA803A / LN09 ) soon.
 
tak
Posts: 121
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:41 am

787 Production Thread Part 1

Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:49 am

I had some speculation I posted in another thread almost three weeks ago:

Quoting tak (Reply 3):
The article from aspire aviation suggests that line number 7, 8 and 9 are the only airplanes in the first 20 produced that will go prior to 2012 due to the amount of rework needed on some of these aircraft?

For ANA: LN# 8 (ZA101) has been delivered and LN #7 (ZA100) and 9 (ZA 102) are being redid for delivery soon from what the aspire aviation post suggests. Also, LN#24 (ZA103) has had its first flight and is painted in the same special livery as LN#8 so presumably will be the next to be delivered to ANA. There are other airplanes destined for ANA but may need significant rework still?

Royal Air Maroc: has LN # 17 (ZA150 and 19 (ZA151) being worked on, so perhaps LN#19 will be delivered before 2012?

LAN: has LN#16 (ZA531) which has exited the shop as well as LN#48 (ZA532) that was scheduled to start final assembly last week. I am guessing that the earlier one will be readied? I would guess that the one just starting final assembly will not be able to make it by the end of the year. ***edit*** also LN#10 (ZA530) thanks for pointing out the omission***

JAL: LN#23 (ZA177) is down at Lackland AFB being refurbished for delivery, possibly soon?

IA: If they can figure out how to pay for them --> Air India Has 'no Money' To Pay For 787s (by Part147 Sep 12 2011 in Civil Aviation)

Air India has several aircraft out of final assembly: LN# 25 (ZA230), 26 (ZA231), 28 (ZA232), 29 (ZA233), 30 (ZA 234), 32 (ZA 235), 35 (ZA236) with LN #46 (ZA237) having started final assembly in Charleston SC. I wonder which of these is being readied for first delivery. LN#29 (ZA233 had its first flight on July 31st(?) so perhaps would be the first to be delivered to Air India.

Some of that info is now outdated but, 2 787s delivered to ANA; with 2 planned to still be delivered to ANA before the end of the year: LN#9 and one other for ANA, I am wondering if it would be one of the later planes (not in the first 20) for use to FRA in January...

I am wondering if the reported delay in GENX certification will affect remaining deliveries in 2011. While LAN is using RR engines of the other airlines rumored to getting 2011 deliveries: Air India, JAL, RAM and China Southern all chose GE engines to power their planes.

Any guesses how many airplanes delivered before 2012? An earlier article I saw: http://www.aspireaviation.com/2011/0...m-becoming-reality-its-road-ahead/ said possibly only 7 dream liners to be delivered, but that was before GENX certification was taking longer than planned...
 
ferpe
Posts: 2651
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:44 am

787 Production Thread Part 1

Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:33 am

Quoting kaitak744 (Reply 12):
Important point to note:

Ln 7-19 are heavy versions of the 787. These are 13,500 pounds overweight. Of these planes, ANA is getting 8 of them. LAN is getting 2. Royal Air Maroc is getting 2.

The 787 from Ln 20 onwards will be incrementally lighter. LN 34 and LN 50 are block points for further weight reductions.

While empty weight improvements are good they only give you 115nm per metric ton, (ie +230nm for LN20) the more important step between LN7-19 and LN20- is the increase in MTOW from 219t to 228t, only 1t of these goes to reinforcements, the rest is extra fuel or payload (MZFW goes from 156t to 161t). This extra fuel brings you +700nm, this is what makes FRA possible for ANA. Essentially the LN7-19 have a spec range of some 6800nm and LN20- have a spec range over 7500nm gradually growing to 8000nm over time as the MEW reaches the target.

So I would say frames under LN20 is a special case, from LN20 all frames are perfectly suitable for long haul operations, your interior will essentially then decide how long you can haul what payload (the spec range is with an interior of some 63kg per pax, typical is more like 80kg).

[Edited 2011-10-21 23:37:22]
Non French in France
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23095
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

787 Production Thread Part 1

Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:06 pm

Shaving a couple percent of the cruise SFC when the Package A Trent 1000s are swapped for Package B Trent 1000s will help the range on LN07-LN20. And then when they get Package C and are at (or better than) original spec, they will see an additional range boost.
 
avi8
Posts: 873
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:36 am

787 Production Thread Part 1

Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:11 pm

Is the 787 even profitable now with a 3 year delay and numerous cancellations?
avi8

Medschool student
 
ferpe
Posts: 2651
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:44 am

787 Production Thread Part 1

Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:32 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 17):
Shaving a couple percent of the cruise SFC when the Package A Trent 1000s are swapped for Package B Trent 1000s will help the range on LN07-LN20. And then when they get Package C and are at (or better than) original spec, they will see an additional range boost.

You gain about 100nm per 1% of SFC reduction, the very first ANA frames with package A engines therefore only have 6700nm range (LN below 20) and 7400nm (LN20-34) with package A rollers. The frst GE frames will also be 3% of so they will have the same range as the A rollers.
Non French in France
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23095
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

787 Production Thread Part 1

Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:53 pm

Quoting Avi8 (Reply 18):
Is the 787 even profitable now with a 3 year delay and numerous cancellations?

At the moment, Boeing claims it will be.

Their next Earnings Conference is in a week and it's expected they will still state the program is profitable if they can deliver 1000 of them.

While this number is more than double that of the accounting blocks of earlier programs, when Boeing stuffed-up production of the 737NG in 1997, they had to double the accounting block from 400 to 800 units. And even with the cancellations, the 787 is right around 800 units (counting pending orders like AF/KL and such) and as deliveries increase, so should new orders.
 
airnorth
Posts: 171
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:30 am

787 Production Thread Part 1

Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:07 pm

I'm not very good with acronyms, although sometimes by scrolling through different threads, online search engines, and generally becoming more familiar with the industry, I can figure them out.
But....I need help with "SFC", anyone? I don't think its Securities and Futures Commissions.
 
adipasqu
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 1:37 pm

787 Production Thread Part 1

Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:14 pm

Quoting airnorth (Reply 21):
SFC

Specific Fuel Consumption
707 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 741 742 752 753 762 763 764 D9S D10 319 320 321 M80 M82 M83 M87 M88 M90 SF3 ERJ CRJ
 
ferpe
Posts: 2651
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:44 am

787 Production Thread Part 1

Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:53 pm

Quoting adipasqu (Reply 22):
Specific Fuel Consumption

It is the turbofans MPG, the nice thing about it is that it is lb fuel/lbf thrust and hour. Multiply with the required thrust and you have lb/hr fuel consumption. There is typically 2 values floating around, take-of thrust and cruise thrust SFC. The latter is the interesting one and is around 0,53 for the latest engines. Now a 787-8 needs about 10000 lbf engine thrust per engine to overcome drag during cruise at FL370 therefore you consume:

2 engines * 10.000 * 0,53 = 10600 lb of fuel / hour when in cruise.
Non French in France
 
ual747-600
Posts: 591
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 1999 12:57 pm

787 Production Thread Part 1

Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:32 pm

After looking at the allthings787 website it looks as though after ANA JA803A Boeing is prioritizing later build ANA 787's for delivery. I'm just speculating here and have no inside info whatsoever but look where line #'s 31, 40, 41 and 42 are in the EMC bays while all the others are outside hangers.

Does anyone know how complete the 787's coming off the line are these days and how much, if any, additional rework has to be completed prior to delivery preparation?

Thanks.

UAL747-600

[Edited 2011-10-22 14:33:33]
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23095
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

787 Production Thread Part 1

Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:50 pm

Quoting ual747-600 (Reply 24):
Does anyone know how complete the 787's coming off the line are these days and how much, if any, additional rework has to be completed prior to delivery preparation?

Based on reports, it sounds like the major component suppliers are generally up to speed, so once the subs can incorporate all the changes at the factory, hopefully the planes will start to "snap together" at PAE and CHS.
 
r2rho
Posts: 2440
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:13 pm

787 Production Thread Part 1

Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:35 am

Quoting United787 (Thread starter):
I would love to see a 787 thread similar to the A380 production thread:

Thank you for starting this! Good timing as well. As a follower of the A380 Production threads, I was missing a 787-equivalent! The A380 threads have mostly managed to stay on topic, I wish the same for this one!

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 4):
it really depends on how much rework is needed on the 787 which have left FAL. The ones having recently left FAL don't have too much rework apparently, but some sources say it may take 1,5 years to clear all 787s which are littered all over PAE...

I wonder... we could even have the situation that some recently assembled (low re-work) 787s be delivered ahead of older (high-rework) frames...
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23095
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

787 Production Thread Part 1

Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:42 am

Quoting r2rho (Reply 26):
we could even have the situation that some recently assembled (low re-work) 787s be delivered ahead of older (high-rework) frames...

Boeing is planning to do just that.
 
tak
Posts: 121
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:41 am

787 Production Thread Part 1

Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:47 am

The big question looming out there still is whether boeing can successfully complete the ramp up in production rate. Bernstein research predicts that now only 6 787s will be delivered in 2011 and 51 in 2012. Furthermore they believe that the ramp up to 10 airplanes per year will take until 2015.

http://atwonline.com/airline-finance...edicts-more-787-delays-boeing-1024

I hope this is not true.... I had hoped that by 2015 boeing would be advancing towards 15 787s per month... We will see...
 
2175301
Posts: 715
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 11:19 am

787 Production Thread Part 1

Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:55 am

Quoting tak (Reply 28):
Furthermore they believe that the ramp up to 10 airplanes per year will take until 2015.

I am quite sure that Boeing will be able to successfully ramp up to 10 per year in 2012. In fact I suspect they might ramp up to 50-75 per year in 2012.

Have a great day,
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 8574
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

787 Production Thread Part 1

Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:01 am

Quoting tak (Reply 28):
Bernstein research predicts that now only 6 787s will be delivered in 2011 and 51 in 2012. Furthermore they believe that the ramp up to 10 airplanes per year will take until 2015.

Correction: your article says they believe they will be at 10 airplanes per month by 2015.
 
tak
Posts: 121
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:41 am

787 Production Thread Part 1

Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:59 am

oops, yes my mistake up to 10 airplanes per month. My apologies   
 
NYC777
Posts: 5066
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

787 Production Thread Part 1

Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:16 pm

Beoing is reporting that they will be finalling initating the 2.5/month production rate on the 787 starting this week (I have Oct. 30 listed on my blog). This will start with LN 50. Currently on the production line is LN 44 (Position 4), LN 47 (positon 3), LN 48 (position 2) and LN 49 (poistion 1). Further Boeign said that the supply chain is gearing up for a further increase in rate over the next couple of months. What that rate will be an when is a matter of specuation at this point. Good news is that by LN 60 Boeing should be producing airplanes that will not need any change incorporation or re-work. That should be in about four months or less depending on the production rate changes.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
starrion
Posts: 972
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2003 1:19 pm

787 Production Thread Part 1

Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:32 pm

That m

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 32):
Good news is that by LN 60 Boeing should be producing airplanes that will not need any change incorporation or re-work. That should be in about four months or less depending on the production rate changes.

That makes the LOT claim that their first frame won't be delivered until 2013 even less understandable.

That frame should be out of the shop by April or so, and if it doesn't need any rework, and it has the RR engines, then how does it get from April to 2013?

That Boeing is moving to the 2.5 per month is very good news, but the delay reports from all the airlines are confusing.

Boeing wouldn't put nearly complete frames at the end of the line until they finish with the frames that require nearly complete rebuilding would they?
Knowledge Replaces Fear
 
User avatar
kanban
Posts: 3644
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:00 am

787 Production Thread Part 1

Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:51 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 32):
Good news is that by LN 60 Boeing should be producing airplanes that will not need any change incorporation or re-work.


Probably should clarify that statement as limited to changes and rework associated with problems discovered during the flight test program affecting the contractual requirements. There are probably other things found that will be fixed at a lower priority, and as long as engineers have pencils (or computers) they will be tweaking the design with improvements.. On the 707 and 727 they had change incorporations right up to the last a/p manufactured. The key thing is regular change incorporation is handled by change boards so efficiently that it becomes an invisible process to the customer with no deliver impact.
 
User avatar
frigatebird
Posts: 1172
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:02 pm

787 Production Thread Part 1

Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:29 pm

Meanwhile, Boeing now officially admits delivery of the first 787-9 has slipped to 2014  http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...47-8i-and-787-9-deliveries-363941/
Already expected by NZ last July, although immediately publicly denied by Boeing. Now it's quietly mentioned at p.35/36 of their recent SEC filing  

Recent doubts about Boeing's ability to ramp up 787 production have certainly something to do with it. 10 787s per month production by the end of 2013 will probably slip into 2014 as well IMO.
146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E90,F50/7
 
WarpSpeed
Posts: 314
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:22 pm

787 Production Thread Part 1

Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:57 pm

Quoting starrion (Reply 33):
Boeing wouldn't put nearly complete frames at the end of the line until they finish with the frames that require nearly complete rebuilding would they?

One would hope that Boeing could process nearly complete frames in parallel with those going through change incorp.

It is my understanding that the Rework/Change Incorp. area is like another production line. In this sense, assuming it is mostly autonomous and Boeing has enough people power to do final preps for delivery, there could be a delivery bubble in 2012-2013 as the FALs kick out frames and the reworked planes deliver along side each other.
DaHjaj jaj QaQ Daghajjaj !!!!
 
Spacepope
Posts: 3156
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

787 Production Thread Part 1

Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:58 pm

Tangentally related to 787 production, but can anyone explain why a dreamlifer has been doing roundtrips the past few days between AEX and here in COS? Flights GTI8000-8006.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
Rheinbote
Posts: 1103
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 9:30 pm

787 Production Thread Part 1

Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:47 pm

Quoting starrion (Reply 33):
That makes the LOT claim that their first frame won't be delivered until 2013 even less understandable.

I hear that LOT's first airplane (LN61) has been reassigned to ANA.

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 4):
some sources say it may take 1,5 years to clear all 787s which are littered all over PAE...

A good source told me that rework of the LN7-LN19 lot is going to stretch into the second half of 2013.
 
ual747-600
Posts: 591
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 1999 12:57 pm

787 Production Thread Part 1

Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:41 pm

Does anyone know what line number JA805A is for ANA? Here'a a shot of it yesterday next to JAL line #38 both with engines on.

http://paineairport.com/kpae4351.htm

UAL747-600
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23095
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

787 Production Thread Part 1

Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:47 pm



Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 38):
A good source told me that rework of the LN7-LN19 lot is going to stretch into the second half of 2013.
All Things 787 did an analysis and they expect the final frame of the first tranche to be delivered in November 2012 (roughly one per month though 2012).



Quoting ual747-600 (Reply 39):
Does anyone know what line number JA805A is for ANA?

She is evidently ZA104 / LN41.

[Edited 2011-10-30 09:49:09]
 
sunrisevalley
Posts: 4991
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:26 am

787 Production Thread Part 1

Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:44 pm

When the first 789 rolls out what is the process and time needed to certify it? How many frames will be used for this purpose?
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23095
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

787 Production Thread Part 1

Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:36 pm

Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 41):
When the first 789 rolls out what is the process and time needed to certify it? How many frames will be used for this purpose?

I expect they will need at least two - one to certify with Trent 1000 power and one to certify with GEnx power.

The 747-8 program is reported to need 600 hours for certification, but it is likely testing additional systems not found on the 747-8 freighter, so I would hazard a guess the 787-9 will need less than 500 hours of flight time for certification.
 
NYC777
Posts: 5066
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

787 Production Thread Part 1

Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:24 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 40):
Quoting ual747-600 (Reply 39):
Does anyone know what line number JA805A is for ANA?

She is evidently ZA104 / LN41.

Actually I believe JA805A is LN12/ZA501
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
Rheinbote
Posts: 1103
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 9:30 pm

787 Production Thread Part 1

Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:03 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 40):
Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 38):
A good source told me that rework of the LN7-LN19 lot is going to stretch into the second half of 2013.
All Things 787 did an analysis and they expect the final frame of the first tranche to be delivered in November 2012 (roughly one per month though 2012).

Well in addition to my source, Scott Fancher indicated that rework is going to take years [pl.]. I do not know on what information NYC777's (who is 'they'?) analysis is based.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 40):
Quoting ual747-600 (Reply 39):
Does anyone know what line number JA805A is for ANA?

She is evidently ZA104 / LN41.

Makes me curious whether all the pre-LN20 airplanes that were allocated to ANA will get ZA1xx numbers higher than ZA104, or whether this is an indication that ANA is not going to take any of those.

Edit: Except LN7, LN8, LN9 that is.

[Edited 2011-10-31 09:04:49]
 
NYC777
Posts: 5066
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

787 Production Thread Part 1

Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:27 pm

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 44):
Makes me curious whether all the pre-LN20 airplanes that were allocated to ANA will get ZA1xx numbers higher than ZA104, or whether this is an indication that ANA is not going to take any of those.

ANA is still going to get 787 within the LN 7 - LN 19 tranche that was allocated to them. They just have different ZA numbers.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
MEA-707
Posts: 3666
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 1999 4:51 am

787 Production Thread Part 1

Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:44 am

It's now 1 November... no first flights of any 787s in the whole of October. Even while that doesn't mean much, JA802A was delivered within 3 weeks of its first flight, I wonder if they manage to deliver even 3 more to ANA before the end of the year. I just imagined the flow of first flights and deliveries would speed up quicker.

Another question, does someone have any update about line number 7, the lowest line number which hasn't flown yet. It was reported as cn 34485 for ANA but no registration is known yet, and there have been no sightings or pictures of it in Everett in the database, quite unusual for any l/n below 40.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
incitatus
Posts: 2702
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:49 am

787 Production Thread Part 1

Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:51 pm

Quoting tak (Reply 28):
The big question looming out there still is whether boeing can successfully complete the ramp up in production rate. Bernstein research predicts that now only 6 787s will be delivered in 2011 and 51 in 2012. Furthermore they believe that the ramp up to 10 airplanes per year will take until 2015.

If that is right, then by the end of 2012 there will be about 60 787s and about 85 A380s in operation. The number of 787s in operation will surpass the number of A380s in operation around mid-2013.
Stop pop up ads
 
NYC777
Posts: 5066
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

787 Production Thread Part 1

Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:45 pm

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 46):
I wonder if they manage to deliver even 3 more to ANA before the end of the year. I just imagined the flow of first flights and deliveries would speed up quicker.

ANA has stated last month that they expect 5 more 787 by the end of the year (next two months). They'll have 7 in the flight by Dec. 31st. I expect that Boeing will deliver 1 GEnx powered machine by then as well.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
COEWR787
Posts: 300
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:35 pm

787 Production Thread Part 1

Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:00 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 48):
I expect that Boeing will deliver 1 GEnx powered machine by then as well.

Which airline will be the first Genx customer to receive an aircraft?