bennett123
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BAA To Sell Edinburgh Airport

Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:33 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-15367555

This is a bit of a surprise.

Everyone was expecting Glasgow to go.

Do you think that BA's expansion there was a major factor.
 
simpsondude
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RE: BAA To Sell Edinburgh Airport

Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:36 am

Im really surprised at this too.
Edinburgh is the airport that has seen major growth over the last few years. Its also the airport with a large inbound market.
 
rwy04lga
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RE: BAA To Sell Edinburgh Airport

Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:40 am

I have an EDI Airport BAA booklet from 1971 detailing their future expansion plans. Took me 38 years to return and see them.
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lhr380
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RE: BAA To Sell Edinburgh Airport

Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:44 am

Wow, I would have thought GLA would have been sold.
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
Jack
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RE: BAA To Sell Edinburgh Airport

Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:55 am

I think we are all a bit surprised on this one.

A couple of thoughts:
i) Perhaps they know that they have sold out to Ryanair at EDI at a low price so no profit
ii) EDI may need more infrastructure improvements in the near term?
 
simpsondude
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RE: BAA To Sell Edinburgh Airport

Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:57 am

Quoting Jack (Reply 4):
Perhaps they know that they have sold out to Ryanair at EDI at a low price so no profit

Ryanair are currently trying to open a base at GLA though
 
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SKAirbus
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RE: BAA To Sell Edinburgh Airport

Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:58 am

I am surprised too but I guess GLA has the largest number of long haul routes and Glasgow is the biggest population centre in Scotland and the third largest city in the UK. I think BA sees the biggest growth potential here.

Unfortunately EDI requires a huge expansion and runway extension to be able to handle similar long haul operations, whilst GLA is pretty much set up in that respect.

So this leaves BAA with:

LHR
STN
GLA
SOU
ABZ
Next Flights: LHR-OSL (738), OSL-CPH (320), CPH-LHR (321), LHR-HEL (359), HEL-LHR (359)
 
LHR27C
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RE: BAA To Sell Edinburgh Airport

Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:58 am

Don't forget that trying to sell assets in this market isn't easy, and BAA had to sell one of EDI or GLA. At least they can be sure to get a decent price for EDI.
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skipness1E
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RE: BAA To Sell Edinburgh Airport

Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:54 am

Quoting simpsondude (Reply 5):
Ryanair are currently trying to open a base at GLA though

No they're not, they're exploring the option of inbound city breaks from offshore bases into GLA rather than stwick (PIK / EGPK), United Kingdom">PIK. It also helps to put the fear factor into stwick (PIK / EGPK), United Kingdom">PIK. Unless someone can give MO'L a monetary reason to choose GLA over stwick (PIK / EGPK), United Kingdom">PIK, stwick (PIK / EGPK), United Kingdom">PIK wins.Given they've been flying for free for virtually 17 years, I doubt an introductory rate at BAA Glasgow can match that. It's not quite the same size of market as LPL and MAN that oculd support both, it's more like having a base at both BHD and BFS !

BA does not see market growth at GLA, you are misunderstanding what's happening. The Glasgow to London market is stagnant and has been declining for years, PIK-STN ends next weekend, used to be multiple daily flights. The removal of the loss making bmi operation of 5 daily A319s caused the GLA-LHR market price to go up, only on Heathrow mind. What BA are doing is returning some capacity into the market that they have removed over the last five years, even at that, the size of GLA-LHR is still going to be smaller year on year given the removal of bmi's approx 10,000 weekly seats. This is consolodation of a market in long term decline



[Edited 2011-10-19 04:00:36]
 
edina
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RE: BAA To Sell Edinburgh Airport

Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:27 am

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 8):
BA does not see market growth at GLA, you are misunderstanding what's happening.

Strange.....not what the head of the UK Domestic operation was saying just 48 hours ago - yields up (particularly on LHR & LCY), the West Coast rail upgrade has had it's effect & BA are more than happy with how the GLA-LON routes are performing in the current climate.



Just a shame it's not GLA being sold......BAA staff at GLA need a boot up the backside where attitudes are concerned & the recent changes with the new security hall leading directly into the BAA retail operation are a pain...there is no quick way to the gate any more. LGW has changed for the better as a leaner & revitalised operation, & GLA could do with the same stimulus.
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nighthawk
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RE: BAA To Sell Edinburgh Airport

Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:17 pm

I'm not surprised to see this decision to be honest, it could have gone either way, with there being many advantages of selling either airport. Dont forget BAA's Scottish offices are based at Glasgow Airport, so selling GLA would have involved an office move.

As mentioned by others, Edinburgh Airport needs significant investment. Prior to the recession, the government white paper called for a new runway to be needed at Edinburgh by 2013 to allow for growth, obviously this is no longer required quite as soon, but will be needed in future. Glasgow on the other hand, did not require a new runway for the significant future. Long haul facilities at Edinburgh are also somewhat lacking, and investment would be required here, as well as a runway extension, in order to attract new long-haul flights.

Glasgow on the other hand, has more in the way of facilities, so will require less investment over the next few years. However, most recent growth has been out of EDI, with GLA in decline. Obviously BAA feel they can turn this around. They maybe also feel that due to this they can attract a greater price for EDI.

I look forward to seeing who the new owners will be.
 
skipness1E
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RE: BAA To Sell Edinburgh Airport

Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:57 pm

Quoting edina (Reply 9):
Strange.....not what the head of the UK Domestic operation was saying just 48 hours ago - yields up (particularly on LHR & LCY), the West Coast rail upgrade has had it's effect & BA are more than happy with how the GLA-LON routes are performing in the current climate
BA is doing well in a market that isn't growing, as I said YoY seats on GLA-LHR will still be down, of course they're happy, they've just gotten a monopoly on the route.

I wonder if they'll repoen the marketing department at GLA? :P

[Edited 2011-10-19 05:58:19]
 
UAL777UK
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RE: BAA To Sell Edinburgh Airport

Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:07 pm

I like a few others are surprised that its not GLA but at the same time I am quietly pleased, especially if someone like those running LGW come in and run EDI.

Would that private investment look towards:-

A. Extending the runway?
B. Getting the tram line finished and up and running in to the city (lost the plot on what is actually happening there!)
C. Perhaps returning to looking at getting a train line into the airport.
D. None of the above and just enhancing the airport experience.

Either way, I hope that some good will come out of EDI being sold.
 
LGWflyer
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RE: BAA To Sell Edinburgh Airport

Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:12 pm

I think this is the best for EDI. Since BAA left LGW and got GIP, it has had loads of new airlines and have done up the airport. I hope the best for EDI in the near future.
3 words... I Love Aviation!!!
 
bennett123
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RE: BAA To Sell Edinburgh Airport

Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:50 pm

What is attitude of the Govt to an extended runway, (would it be London or Edinburgh).

What the contraversy over the Tramline been resolved. I understand that the Scottish parliament was still trying to work it out.

Again, who would need to approve/fund a train link.

IMO, the two big issues are money, (in short supply). and the political will to expand this airport, (also in short supply).
 
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nighthawk
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RE: BAA To Sell Edinburgh Airport

Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:22 pm

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 12):
A. Extending the runway?
B. Getting the tram line finished and up and running in to the city (lost the plot on what is actually happening there!)
C. Perhaps returning to looking at getting a train line into the airport.
D. None of the above and just enhancing the airport experience.

A is a possibility, I believe BAA were planning to extend the runway in the coming years. It will depend on whether the new owners feel there is a valid business case for doing so or not. I dont think there are many routes that would work out of EDI that are currently restricted by runway length. Long haul wise, the Middle East is a strong possibility, but this is achievable with an A330.

B & C are not located on airport property, and are therefore not a concern of the airport itself. Sure they can lobby the council/ government to do something about this, but the decision rests with the council/government, as does the funding. BAA were prepared to pay for the station, and were in favour of both B & C, yet C was still scrapped by the government. New owners wont have any impact on this.

What you may see changing is an expanded or reconfigured terminal, providing more widebody gates in the short term.
 
skipness1E
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RE: BAA To Sell Edinburgh Airport

Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:25 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 14):
What is attitude of the Govt to an extended runway, (would it be London or Edinburgh).

Why? What's wrong with the current length? On a par with GLA and BHX, able to deal with transatlantic and Middle East on any likely carrier. There's the main railway line at one end and a main road at the other, the exepense and hassle would have VERY little benefit, even in the medium term. The tram link is a comedy joke from the same people that brought you the Scottish Parliament fiasco, OK a little unfair perhaps but there's loads of information on the BBC website if you have a look.

Transport policy on infrastructure of that scale would likely need Westminster funding but the policy is devolved to Holyrood (I think) ! MEP / MSP / MP ahh to Hell with them all!

[Edited 2011-10-19 09:26:31]
 
BDABOY
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RE: BAA To Sell Edinburgh Airport

Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:38 pm

As they're being FORCED to sell, it surely makes sense to sell the more valuable of the two assets given the unpredictability of the present global market. EDI is the 5th busiest airport in the UK despite GLA's larger long haul share of the market. You could argue that EDI is predicted to have a booming next 30 years it would make sense to keep it as the better investment, but while I like to believe that is true, it is still only a prediction and thus risky from an investment perspective.

I hope the new owners will make EDI follow in LGW's footsteps, but I do like the improvements at EDI for sure.

AND PLEASE, let's not start on the trams in Edinburgh. It's a fiasco of nightmarish proportions!!!!!!!
 
ScottishDavie
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RE: BAA To Sell Edinburgh Airport

Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:10 pm

Quoting BDABOY (Reply 17):
it surely makes sense to sell the more valuable of the two assets given the unpredictability of the present global market

There was a BAA spokesman on Radio Scotland's Newsdrive programme earlier this evening and after stressing several times that BAA didn't want to sell any Scottish airport, he said in terms that they had decided to sell EDI because it was the most attractive to the market.

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 16):
The tram link is a comedy joke from the same people that brought you the Scottish Parliament fiasco,

Meaning what, exactly?
 
skipness1E
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RE: BAA To Sell Edinburgh Airport

Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:01 pm

Meaning Scottish politicians cannot project manage to budget!
 
aerecosse
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RE: BAA To Sell Edinburgh Airport

Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:05 pm

Quoting BDABOY (Reply 17):
let's not start on the trams in Edinburgh. It's a fiasco of nightmarish proportions!!!!!!!



as far as I'm aware the Edinburgh trams project will run from EDI airport through to Princes St & St Andrews Square. Rather than being a Scottish government problem I believe its Edinburgh City Council who turned it into a right royal fiasco.

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 10):
Glasgow on the other hand, has more in the way of facilities, so will require less investment over the next few years. However, most recent growth has been out of EDI, with GLA in decline.



True the most recent growth has been at Edinburgh, in no small part helped by the arrival of FR who have boosted passenger number by around 2 million. I agree that GLA also has more in the way of facilities but as far as being in decline - yes they are well off their peek of over 9million passengers - now around 6.9 million, however there has been consecutive growth reported for the last 10 months.
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ScottishDavie
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RE: BAA To Sell Edinburgh Airport

Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:36 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 19):
Meaning Scottish politicians cannot project manage to budget!

At the risk of going off topic, the Edinburgh trams fiasco started as a vanity project by Edinburgh City Council which nobody living in Edinburgh actually wanted. The SNP minority government tried to cancel it shortly after taking office in 2007 but were defeated by an unholy alliance of other parties whose only common aim was to defeat the SNP for the sake of doing so. The trams scheme was "project managed" by an arms length company called TIE on which Edinburgh City Council was represented. If by "Scottish politicians" you mean Edinburgh City Councillors I entirely agree but don't blame the current Scottish Government for something which had nothing to do with them and which they tried to stop.
 
LH121GLA
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RE: BAA To Sell Edinburgh Airport

Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:48 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Thread starter):
Do you think that BA's expansion there was a major factor.

No.
 
r2rho
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RE: BAA To Sell Edinburgh Airport

Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:49 am

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 6):
I am surprised too but I guess GLA has the largest number of long haul routes and Glasgow is the biggest population centre in Scotland and the third largest city in the UK. I think BA sees the biggest growth potential here.

I guess you mean BAA, not BA. Indeed GLA has less pax than EDI but better long-haul potential, and no FR paying cheap fees. FR may have helped boost EDI pax numbers, but how profitably for BAA is another thing.

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 6):

So this leaves BAA with:

LHR
STN
GLA
SOU
ABZ

...for now. They have been forced to sell STN as well, though they are resisting it. Ferrovial must be really regretting having bought BAA, it must surely have become a loss-making operation for them. So an alternative view is that they didn't care about whether to sell GLA or EDI, just wanted to minimize loss in their investment, and if EDI can be sold for more money, then that's the one to leave.
 
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SKAirbus
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RE: BAA To Sell Edinburgh Airport

Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:35 am

Quoting ScottishDavie (Reply 21):
At the risk of going off topic, the Edinburgh trams fiasco started as a vanity project by Edinburgh City Council which nobody living in Edinburgh actually wanted. The SNP minority government tried to cancel it shortly after taking office in 2007 but were defeated by an unholy alliance of other parties whose only common aim was to defeat the SNP for the sake of doing so. The trams scheme was "project managed" by an arms length company called TIE on which Edinburgh City Council was represented. If by "Scottish politicians" you mean Edinburgh City Councillors I entirely agree but don't blame the current Scottish Government for something which had nothing to do with them and which they tried to stop.

Don't forget that the railway connection to Glasgow airport was abandoned because of cost overruns, thanks to yet more horrific project management by the Scottish government. With the parliament, tramlink and this there isn't much hope for a runway extension!
Next Flights: LHR-OSL (738), OSL-CPH (320), CPH-LHR (321), LHR-HEL (359), HEL-LHR (359)
 
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nighthawk
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RE: BAA To Sell Edinburgh Airport

Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:44 am

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 24):
Don't forget that the railway connection to Glasgow airport was abandoned because of cost overruns, thanks to yet more horrific project management by the Scottish government. With the parliament, tramlink and this there isn't much hope for a runway extension!

Any runway extension will be paid for by the airport owner, not by the government. Failure of the trams and parliament project will have no bearing on this whatsoever.
 
Damian
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RE: BAA To Sell Edinburgh Airport

Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:22 pm

Quoting r2rho (Reply 23):
Indeed GLA has less pax than EDI but better long-haul potential

I'm not sure why so many seem to think long haul is the make or break here. Direct long haul is a pretty niche market at all Scottish airports. The backbone of Scottish airports is short haul European, and always will be, and that's a sector that GLA needs to play catch-up big time.

EDI could be in line for a flight to the Middle East, and maybe a couple more flights to the US or Canada, but that's about it. Even GLA can't seriously expect to add a huge amount more additional long haul than it already has: it really needs to concentrate on scheduled European flights, while EDI should be looking to grow leisure/charter flights.
 
kdhurst380
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RE: BAA To Sell Edinburgh Airport

Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:10 am

Whilst I'm somewhat surprised, its also not really surprising.

The recent improvements and general condition of the place gives it a nice value, look at what happened with LGW, sold at half of what BAA wanted for it, the new owners are making a bomb from it. This is largely due to a huge amount of investment.

I don't think BAA are stupid, they've gone for resale value on this one, with a debt pile the size of BAA's, its no shock.

Now just Stansted to go, now they are worried about that one, only major UK airport to see more decline in traffic this year. As I say, BAA have learnt from past mistakes.