Jamake1
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AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:54 pm

Net loss of $162 mil.

Operating earnings of $39 mil.

Revenue up 9.1% YOY

Strong Q3 revenue growth in Latin America - up 20% YOY

Media/Analyst conference call scheduled for 2pm EDT today

Discuss...

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/AMR-Co...rd-prnews-3897060802.html?x=0&.v=1

[Edited 2011-10-19 06:02:25]

[Edited 2011-10-19 06:02:55]
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sw733
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RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:58 pm

Net loss is $162 million, not $62 million, as per the article.

Seems to be pretty much par for the course with AMR these days.

Let the always popular bankruptcy chat begin....now!
 
Jamake1
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RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:04 pm

Quoting sw733 (Reply 1):
Net loss is $162 million, not $62 million, as per the article.

My bad, corrected. Thank you SW733...
United's B747-400. "She's a a cruel lover."
 
stlgph
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RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:05 pm

best job in the world - ceo of American Airlines. lose millions each quarter and keep your job. it's almost like being a weatherman .... except you get non-rev benefits!
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
jacobin777
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RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:27 pm

Quoting stlgph (Reply 3):
best job in the world - ceo of American Airlines. lose millions each quarter and keep your job. it's almost like being a weatherman .... except you get non-rev benefits!

Do you have any ideas what should be done with AA's current industry leading cost and pension structure?
"Up the Irons!"
 
stlgph
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RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:33 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 4):
Do you have any ideas what should be done with AA's current industry leading cost and pension structure?

a big huge honking axe is a great place to start, but that's all i can say here without a conflict of interest.
it's always nice to be first and be negative while your peer group is fairly upbeat.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
ckfred
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RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:54 pm

Were the results in line with analyst expectations? The article didn't say.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:57 pm

Quoting ckfred (Reply 6):
Were the results in line with analyst expectations?

I believe the expected was a loss of 120 million if I read correctly.

Pathetic.
It is what it is...
 
JAL
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RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:58 pm

When will they ever make a profit? They make tons of revenues but not any profits!
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einsteinboricua
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RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:01 pm

Not surprised. A loss is a loss. Can anyone post previous quarter results for the year (ie. 1st and 2nd quarter of 2011)?

Quoting stlgph (Reply 3):

best job in the world - ceo of American Airlines. lose millions each quarter and keep your job. it's almost like being a weatherman .... except you get non-rev benefits!

In theory, apples and oranges here.
The weatherman can't control the weather and can't make it his own. He can only tell you how the weather will react up to the point of his analysis. Anything that happens afterwards is out of his hands. The CEO at least has the power to restructure the company and make it profitable. So if Arpey has not even considered Ch 11 to make the company profitable, it's his fault. All of the other legacies have done it and look how they are now.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
micstatic
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RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:04 pm

"While the third quarter was challenging for American Airlines, we are taking aggressive actions to improve the Company's performance and strengthen its foundation for long-term success," said AMR Chairman and CEO Gerard Arpey

I find it strange that Arpey would make such a statement. To me, American is doing anything but taking aggressive actions to improve.
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kngkyle
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RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:08 pm

Sure glad I shorted AMR a month ago.
 
aa1818
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RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:10 pm

Quoting micstatic (Reply 10):
"While the third quarter was challenging for American Airlines, we are taking aggressive actions to improve the Company's performance and strengthen its foundation for long-term success," said AMR Chairman and CEO Gerard Arpey

I find it strange that Arpey would make such a statement. To me, American is doing anything but taking aggressive actions to improve.

"Aggressive" is a relative term.  
Perhaps narrowbody fleet renewal, closing in on an agreement with the pilot union, ordering half-a-dozen 77Ws and finally opening up flights into non-BA/IB European hubs like HEL and BUD is "aggressive". This is AA we're talking about.

I am a loyal AAdvantage member, a small shareholder (who has made money before on the share and is currently in a loss position), and no one wants AA to succeed more than me. I defend them when people criticize and half flown them almost (or alliance partners) almost exclusively over the past 7 years.

I do agree however, that they need to take aggressive and drastic action to remedy their current financial position, and I don't think that anything they have done up to now can be termed "aggressive". They are but mere steps in the right direction.

AA1818

[Edited 2011-10-19 07:11:03]
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
stlgph
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RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:11 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 9):
So if Arpey has not even considered Ch 11 to make the company profitable, it's his fault. All of the other legacies have done it and look how they are now

what I believe-

if Neal Cohen joins the company or the board - they are likely to file.

Arpey is replaced - they are likely to file.

if neither occurs, they likely will not file - at least for now.


then again, get back to me tomorrow.
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lightsaber
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RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:12 pm

Quoting jamake1 (Thread starter):
Net loss of $162 mil.
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 7):
I believe the expected was a loss of 120 million if I read correctly.

This was the quarter to make a profit.

Quoting micstatic (Reply 10):
I find it strange that Arpey would make such a statement. To me, American is doing anything but taking aggressive actions to improve.

I have to agree. The attitude is more like Pan Am's where the losses must just be book keeping or tax evasion or...
That worked for a while. Then it didn't.

Quoting jamake1 (Thread starter):
Operating earnings of $39 mil.

I would love to see a detailed analysis of AA's earnings. How much of the loss would have been put into operations by a LCC?    It doesn't matter, operations should have had an 8% to 10% profit margin for 3Q2011. A break even business (which $39 million is for an airline the size of AA), is a weak business.

Lightsaber
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FlyHossD
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RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:14 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 4):
Do you have any ideas what should be done with AA's current industry leading cost and pension structure?

Start at the top. IMHO, AMR is top heavy.

There's going to be more pilot retirements and short of bankruptcy, I can't see the AA pilots giving up a dime of the retirement money. But AMR now has the opportunity to replace those retiring pilots with new-hires with different pensions or retirement funds.

Thus the sudden urgency in the pilot contract negotiations. AA is on the verge of cancelling what would be profitable flights for the lack of qualified pilots. APA warned AMR that this would happen; that AMR did nothing to prepare takes me back to step one - start at the top, AMR is top heavy.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
ckfred
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RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:15 pm

Quoting stlgph (Reply 13):
what I believe-

if Neal Cohen joins the company or the board - they are likely to file.

Alright, I'll ask. Who is Neal Cohen?
 
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United787
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RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:21 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 9):
In theory, apples and oranges here.

Herman Cain is on A-Net???  
Quoting micstatic (Reply 10):
I find it strange that Arpey would make such a statement. To me, American is doing anything but taking aggressive actions to improve.

To defend AA, I think they have been making a lot of major changes over the past 1-2 years...the problem is, they are too late in growing some balls and leadership...by the time AA realizes the benefits of these changes, they will have been through Chapter 11...some of the changes I think are significant:

1. Strengthen OneWorld...It was the non-alliance alliance with what seemed to be these least amount of cooperation between it's members...that has changed...we have seen a plethora of new cooperation like CX finally starting HKG-ORD...QF changing from SFO to DFW... AA stepping up and being aggressive to save JAL... AA starting ORD-HEL

2. Order new widebodies...I think the 77W order (the first in the US) will allow them to make some much needed expansion moves and also allow them to optimize some existing routes! Lets hope they improve their First and Business cabins with the new planes...

3. Next Generation of narrowbodies...The MD-80s burn to much fuel and they needed to order a lot of new planes...and they did with the largest aircraft order in history!

4. Cornerstone Strategy...I think this is a good strategy on paper...the problem is they are in third place in NYC, second place at ORD and in second or third place in LAX. I think the B6 partnership is a smart one for NYC but they don't have the aircraft and cost structure to compete effectively in these markets...and they are on a slippery slope...
 
stlgph
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RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:24 pm

no problem -

Neal S. Cohen has been Independent Director of Republic Airways Holdings Inc. since October 2009. He is president and chief operating officer of Laureate Education, Inc. Previously, Mr. Cohen was executive vice president for international strategy and chief executive officer for regional airlines at Northwest Airlines. In addition, Mr. Cohen had served as executive vice president and chief financial officer at Northwest Airlines. Prior to his tenure with Northwest Airlines, Mr. Cohen was executive vice president and chief financial officer for US Airways. Mr. Cohen has served as chief financial officer for various service and financial organizations as well as Sylvan Learning Systems, Inc., the predecessor company of Laureate Education, Inc.
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FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:51 pm

Quoting stlgph (Reply 18):

I'm not trying to side-line, believe me. I'm only asking because I honestly don't know and frankly don't keep up with AA affairs but what gave you the idea that he may be joining AMR's team?
What gets measured gets done.
 
apodino
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RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:07 pm

The report says they made an operating profit of $39 million? Were the losses due to special charges on the balance sheet?

In any event they need to stem the red ink in a hurry, or else everyone associated with AMR is going to suffer.

Quoting flyhossd (Reply 15):

Thus the sudden urgency in the pilot contract negotiations. AA is on the verge of cancelling what would be profitable flights for the lack of qualified pilots. APA warned AMR that this would happen; that AMR did nothing to prepare takes me back to step one - start at the top, AMR is top heavy.

This is exactly what happened with UA in the 90's when they staffed based on the assumption that pilots would pick up overtime, rather than hire new pilots. When they didn't and were forced to cancel a ton of flights, they gave the pilots a hefty raise, which unfortunately led them into bankruptcy in the early 2000's.

This environment is different than back then though, but the pilot deal has to get done either way.
 
mogandoCI
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RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:08 pm

all sound good on paper, but the question becomes - which event is likely to occur first : AA finally turning a profit, or AA running out of cash ?

also the cornerstone strategy is not without flaws - insufficient feed for JFK/TATL due to LGA dual hub... lack of proper AsiaPac hub ... DFW/JFK flights to Latin America cannibalizing MIA instead of the competition.... ignoring Africa when MIA is perfect geographically

Quoting United787 (Reply 17):
To defend AA, I think they have been making a lot of major changes over the past 1-2 years...the problem is, they are too late in growing some balls and leadership...by the time AA realizes the benefits of these changes, they will have been through Chapter 11...some of the changes I think are significant:

1. Strengthen OneWorld...It was the non-alliance alliance with what seemed to be these least amount of cooperation between it's members...that has changed...we have seen a plethora of new cooperation like CX finally starting HKG-ORD...QF changing from SFO to DFW... AA stepping up and being aggressive to save JAL... AA starting ORD-HEL

2. Order new widebodies...I think the 77W order (the first in the US) will allow them to make some much needed expansion moves and also allow them to optimize some existing routes! Lets hope they improve their First and Business cabins with the new planes...

3. Next Generation of narrowbodies...The MD-80s burn to much fuel and they needed to order a lot of new planes...and they did with the largest aircraft order in history!

4. Cornerstone Strategy...I think this is a good strategy on paper...the problem is they are in third place in NYC, second place at ORD and in second or third place in LAX. I think the B6 partnership is a smart one for NYC but they don't have the aircraft and cost structure to compete effectively in these markets...and they are on a slippery slope...
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:27 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 21):
DFW/JFK flights to Latin America cannibalizing MIA instead of the competition

Thats not a problem. The Latin America flights from JFK are heavily tilited to O&D since the connecting opprotunities there are limited, MIA has a good mix of O&D and connections but the MIA-Latin America market is HUGE. DFW handles mostly connections with a good number of O&D too (especially to Mexico and Cental America).

They dont compete with each other, rather they mostly serve different markets.
It is what it is...
 
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enilria
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RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:28 pm

Quoting stlgph (Reply 5):
a big huge honking axe is a great place to start, but that's all i can say here without a conflict of interest.

I've said this before, but I blame the Ch11 system for this. It is a tragedy. U.S. taxpayers are going to get stuck with another pension and wage rates in this industry are going to continue their downward spiral if they file for Ch11. Is this what we want to happen? No. If AA comes out of Ch11 with lower costs than DL and UA it is just going to set up another cycle of labor cuts and continue the death spiral of U.S. aviation.

So, frankly AA should simply liquidate. If the bankruptcy system worked, NW or UA would have liquidated in the last round and those left standing would be stronger and paying better wages, but that never happened and now it is AA's turn to dodge the hangman's noose by starting another cycle of destruction in this industry.

Quoting JAL (Reply 8):
When will they ever make a profit?

If they did not make money in 3Q, they have little hope of ever making a profit. Additionally, the cash they raised with 8.75% bonds virtually assure they will not make money any time soon since the interest burden on that wad of cash is so massive it will wipe away any chance of a profit.

Quoting stlgph (Reply 13):
what I believe-

if Neal Cohen joins the company or the board - they are likely to file.

Arpey is replaced - they are likely to file.

if neither occurs, they likely will not file - at least for now.

then again, get back to me tomorrow.

They have to file. I think. Even if they get labor savings they don't really have a choice.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 14):
This was the quarter to make a profit.

Exactly. That's not a small loss, either.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 14):
I have to agree. The attitude is more like Pan Am's where the losses must just be book keeping or tax evasion or...
That worked for a while. Then it didn't.

ROTFL, well these are real losses. Pan Am must have done a fantastic job of faking their poor performance.   I guess it was all just a sly plan to get a TV show. LOL
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:37 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 23):
So, frankly AA should simply liquidate.



And be punished for being the one airline that didnt go through? No.

If Chapter 11 didnt exist, NW, CO, UA, DL, and US might not exist. At least two of them would be gone and AA would be standing on the top of the airline pyramid.

Should it come to that, AA will go through and then all should be well for them. Will it force another to go through? Probably, but that isnt AA's concern.
It is what it is...
 
AADC10
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RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:47 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 20):
This is exactly what happened with UA in the 90's when they staffed based on the assumption that pilots would pick up overtime, rather than hire new pilots. When they didn't and were forced to cancel a ton of flights, they gave the pilots a hefty raise, which unfortunately led them into bankruptcy in the early 2000's.

That is not correct. What sent UA into Ch. 11 was the end of the dot.com boom. Huge numbers of premium passengers flew out of technology centers, SFO definitely but to a lesser extent from DEN and IAD. A large amount of freight also went through LAX. When the boom ended UA could not shrink fast enough to match the decline. To this day, air passenger traffic is still well below the levels of the late 1990s.

Pounded by WN in the west, UA went off the cliff first. The jump in oil prices pushed NW and DL over the edge.
 
LAXintl
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RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:06 pm

Pretty concerning the carriers cash needs are almost a $1bil per quarter with $726 million back filled through yet additional debt offerings.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 6):
Were the results in line with analyst expectations? The article didn't say.

Analyst consensus was figuring on a $120.7mil loss
3rd Quarter US Airline Financial Result Estimates (by LAXintl Oct 11 2011 in Civil Aviation)

Quoting apodino (Reply 20):
The report says they made an operating profit of $39 million? Were the losses due to special charges on the balance sheet?
AA has lots of debt ($16.9bil). In the quarter the servicing interest expense was $211mil.

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 25):
That is not correct. What sent UA into Ch. 11 was the end of the dot.com boom.

Much more than that.

A huge ticking time bomb at United was the 7-years living under ESOP and sweetheart contracts culminating with the pilot agreement following the summer of 2000.
As the industry was becoming leaner and meaner, UA was fattening up.

[Edited 2011-10-19 09:09:16]
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
stlgph
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RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:13 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 19):

no worries ... the name has been mentioned a couple of times in the circles of analysts and shareholders.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
TSS
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RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:13 pm

Quoting flyhossd (Reply 15):
There's going to be more pilot retirements and short of bankruptcy, I can't see the AA pilots giving up a dime of the retirement money. But AMR now has the opportunity to replace those retiring pilots with new-hires with different pensions or retirement funds.

Thus the sudden urgency in the pilot contract negotiations. AA is on the verge of cancelling what would be profitable flights for the lack of qualified pilots. APA warned AMR that this would happen; that AMR did nothing to prepare takes me back to step one - start at the top, AMR is top heavy.

Probably off-topic but possibly indicative of how quickly and decisively AA is dealing with their problems in general, how many pilots are expected to retire November 1st, and what is being done to replace all the retired pilots? Has the TWA pilot recall list been exhausted? Is the pilot training center open yet to process TWA recalls, flow-through from MQ, and possibly new hires from off the street?
Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
 
norcal
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RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:06 pm

Quoting TSS (Reply 28):
Probably off-topic but possibly indicative of how quickly and decisively AA is dealing with their problems in general, how many pilots are expected to retire November 1st, and what is being done to replace all the retired pilots? Has the TWA pilot recall list been exhausted? Is the pilot training center open yet to process TWA recalls, flow-through from MQ, and possibly new hires from off the street?

The problem is they have essentially created a training bubble. For every 777 Captain that retires it creates about 5-6 training events as other pilots shift around. E.g. a 777 FO moves to the 777 Captain leaving and open 777 FO position, a 767 FO moves to the 777 FO leaving a 767 FO position open, etc.

Furthermore a whole bunch of check airmen have retired as well leaving AA short on pilots able to train other pilots. They must first train more check airmen to replace the retiring ones but it becomes more difficult since they are down overall on the number of check airmen on staff.

These factors have lead to a back up at their training center meaning that they simply can't bring on flow throughs, furloughs, or new hires even though they desperately need to.

AMR has to make a choice on which fleet they want to park, the 777 fleet or some of the narrow bodies like MD-80s and 757s. It'll take them a long time to work through all of this and they should have started recalling quicker, but they didn't listen to APA when they said they would end up short.

Eagle is currently facing similar short staffed problems because they didn't start hiring fast enough soon enough when ALPA told them too. Now they are competing with every other regional out there for a very low supply of pilots.
 
727LOVER
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RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:18 pm

When was AMR Corp's last profitable quarter?
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FlyHossD
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RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:26 pm

Quoting norcal (Reply 29):
AMR has to make a choice on which fleet they want to park, the 777 fleet or some of the narrow bodies like MD-80s and 757s. It'll take them a long time to work through all of this and they should have started recalling quicker, but they didn't listen to APA when they said they would end up short.

Good post.

Has AMR management apparently just realized that they've been fiddling while Rome burns?

APA warned them, AMR didn't react at all.

Mandatory retirements at age 65 are going to have a huge impact on this industry. Unfortunately for AMR, they're going to be at the forefront. Will the other carriers learn anything from this example?

Somehow I doubt it.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
fpetrutiu
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RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:33 pm

Wonder if AMR will be still around to take deliver of those new birds they have on order... LOL
 
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par13del
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RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:46 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 23):
So, frankly AA should simply liquidate. If the bankruptcy system worked, NW or UA would have liquidated in the last round and those left standing would be stronger and paying better wages, but that never happened and now it is AA's turn to dodge the hangman's noose by starting another cycle of destruction in this industry.

The system worked fine, new investors were found, what you are talking about is the government mandating that business close down even if qualified investors are willing to put up funds, much different story.

Quoting norcal (Reply 29):
but they didn't listen to APA when they said they would end up short.

So in true a.net fashion, are you implying that the pilots union has / had something positive to contribute to the AA situation?
Say it ain't so  
 
LAXintl
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RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:59 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 23):
U.S. taxpayers are going to get stuck with another pension

The PBGC is not funded by general tax revenues.

Instead its monies come primarily from insurance fund that other defined benefit plans pay, the assets of pensions they take over, investment income of their $100bil+ portfolio, and ongoing recoveries from estates.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
stlgph
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RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:40 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 30):

pretty sure it was third quarter, last year.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
DLPMMM
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RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:58 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 9):
The CEO at least has the power to restructure the company and make it profitable. So if Arpey has not even considered Ch 11 to make the company profitable, it's his fault. All of the other legacies have done it and look how they are now.

You seem to have a strange view of how a (relatively) free market economy works.

The CEO is there to make a profit for the SHAREHOLDERS. The filing of Chapter 11 will wipe out the shareholders, and so is an admission of complete failure by the CEO.

It is not an option that the Board of Directorss will accept (as they represent the shareholders) unless the company is beyond repair.

Once Chapter 11 is declared, the BOD will be replaced by a bankruptcy judge and a creditors' committee...and eventually a new BOD appointed by the new shareholders (made up predominantly of the former creditors or their successors).

It would also be unlikely that Arpey would get to keep his job through all of these ownership changes.

A CEO does not enter Chapter 11 just to gain profitability.
 
N62NA
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RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:09 pm

Quoting flyhossd (Reply 15):
AA is on the verge of cancelling what would be profitable flights for the lack of qualified pilots.

I went to book AA 1520 (the 777 that flies LAX-MIA each day) for end of November / beginning of December and I wanted to use miles to get into F. I was told that "we're not sure if we will be operating that flight on those days!"

Ugh...
 
staralliance85
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RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:31 pm

The best for AA to do is to file for Chapter 11. UA, DL and US were in bankruptcy and they came out fine.


1. The Board should toss Gerard Arpey and have a new administration run AA. They need someone like a Gordon Bethune.


2. Improve their product:AA has the oldest and dirtiest planes such as the the old 767-300 and 200 and the MD 80s. Their 767's are in worse condition than UA and DL's.

3. Install Flat Bed seats on long haul business class flights.


4. Install more comortable seating with PTV's in Economy.

5. Offer some type of premium economy.

6. Handle labour issues.
brad Fitzpatrick
 
ripcordd
Posts: 1032
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2000 1:12 pm

RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:41 pm

Can anyone break out the number of AA pilots and total cost of them to the company, AA FA'S same thing, Mechanics, and Ground, and Then of course management team how many of them and the cost with their bonus. Then compare that to United/Delta/Southwest and see where the problem is.
 
mogandoCI
Posts: 1247
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:39 pm

RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:53 pm

add one more : throw away half of the First class seats on the 777. When you have more First class seats on the 777 than SQ/EK on their A388, something's not adding up. Great for AAdvantage redemptions but bad for economics.

Quoting staralliance85 (Reply 38):
1. The Board should toss Gerard Arpey and have a new administration run AA. They need someone like a Gordon Bethune.


2. Improve their product:AA has the oldest and dirtiest planes such as the the old 767-300 and 200 and the MD 80s. Their 767's are in worse condition than UA and DL's.

3. Install Flat Bed seats on long haul business class flights.


4. Install more comortable seating with PTV's in Economy.

5. Offer some type of premium economy.

6. Handle labour issues.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
Posts: 3965
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:55 am

RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:39 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 37):
I went to book AA 1520 (the 777 that flies LAX-MIA each day) for end of November / beginning of December and I wanted to use miles to get into F. I was told that "we're not sure if we will be operating that flight on those days!"

Ugh...

No!! LOL. You mean you called and this is what the agent said or some sort of blub popped up on the website? This is pathetic..
What gets measured gets done.
 
sulley
Posts: 389
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:55 pm

RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:48 pm

Not feeling it, I was offered a job by AMR today but have serious reservations...
In thrust we trust!
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 4457
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:51 pm

Quoting Sulley (Reply 42):
Not feeling it, I was offered a job by AMR today but have serious reservations...

We just hired someone from AA a couple of months ago. I think he would like to go back at some point, but I dont think he will until things stablize somewhat.

Im not sure this is the right time to hop on board with AA.
It is what it is...
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8245
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:51 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 40):
add one more : throw away half of the First class seats on the 777. When you have more First class seats on the 777 than SQ/EK on their A388, something's not adding up. Great for AAdvantage redemptions but bad for economics.

Can't speak for AA, but DL is doing something similar--focusing a lot more on the business traveler. I heard that the top 5% of DL fliers provide 20% of the revenue. Maybe AA is trying the same...
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
FlyASAGuy2005
Posts: 3965
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:55 am

RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:01 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 44):
Can't speak for AA, but DL is doing something similar--focusing a lot more on the business traveler. I heard that the top 5% of DL fliers provide 20% of the revenue. Maybe AA is trying the same...

That is true on the domestic front. Adding 6 F seats to all domestic 767s, adding 2 F seats to all MD-88s. Adding 2/4 F seats to the 757s (depending on current configuration). Adding an F cabin to the CR7s. Added up, I think they said it was something like 2,000+ additional premium seats but on the international front, the count is goin down. However, the T7s had 50 business seats, it's now 45. The 764s is now at 40, down from 42. The 763ERs will pretty much remain unchanged. New config will be 36 which is the standard for your run of the mill 763ER. The 744s is seeing the biggest hit. Dropping from 65 to 48. Although there are less premium international seats, it's a clear gain due to them moving from recliners to full flat-beds.

I can understand where mogandoCI is coming from. I think they need to revisit their offering and have a more balanced F/J/Y. Y needs to be increased IMHO. Either that or offer some sort of EC/Y+.
What gets measured gets done.
 
usairways787
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:42 pm

RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:17 pm

Looks like me taking a job with another airline was the best decision I made this year. I wish all AA employees the best.

US787
"Pre departure walk around complete, all doors closed, ready for pushback"
 
staralliance85
Posts: 181
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 3:29 am

RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:24 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 40):

add one more : throw away half of the First class seats on the 777. When you have more First class seats on the 777 than SQ/EK on their A388, something's not adding up. Great for AAdvantage redemptions but bad for economics.



Point well said! There is no reason why AA should have the entire first section of the 777 for First Class (4 rows). They Should have like UA ,2 rows of First and 2 rows of Business in the first section of the 777.
brad Fitzpatrick
 
flyby519
Posts: 1153
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:31 am

RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:30 pm

Quoting ripcordd (Reply 39):
Can anyone break out the number of AA pilots and total cost of them to the company, AA FA'S same thing, Mechanics, and Ground, and Then of course management team how many of them and the cost with their bonus. Then compare that to United/Delta/Southwest and see where the problem is.

Check this site:

http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/default.html

The data might be a few years old, but still very relevant

Also airlinefinancials.com might have some useful wage data
These postings or comments are not a company-sponsored source of communication.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24558
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results

Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:39 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 37):
I went to book AA 1520 (the 777 that flies LAX-MIA each day) for end of November / beginning of December and I wanted to use miles to get into F. I was told that "we're not sure if we will be operating that flight on those days!"

It will be operating, but with a 763 more often than not between Nov 1 and Dec 14.
a.

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