FlyASAGuy2005
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DL Post Flatbed Mods - Route & A/C Speculation

Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:31 pm

Don't you hate when you can't think of a good way to word your topic??

Anyway, I began to think about where we may see Delta's longhaul widebody fleet post 2013 once the majority of the flatbed mods are complete. Just a recap for those that may or may not know but the cabin changes include full flat-bed seats in Business Elite offering direct aisle access to every customer (1x2x1 config), new lavatories, sidewalls, overhead bins, lighting, galleys, lower lobe crew rests (a/c that currently do not have it) slimline seats in Y with winged headrests and USB ports, and nose-to-tail AVOD. UNFORTUNATELY, the new Panasonic i9 AVOD system is still not ready. I'm not sure what's going on but it's way past the original ready date. DL cannot wait for it so they will be moving along with the 744 mods and they will NOT have AVOD in Y initially. The new Pinnacle seats being put in are especially designed for the new system. If any of you have traveled on an MD-90 lately, you'll see the outline for where the monitor is suppose to be. The following is what's COMPLETE:

747-400 1/15 (ship 6310 currently in mods; will be out in November)
777-200ER 8/8
777-200LR 10/10
767-400 21/21
767-300ER 1/59 (ship 1608 has been in service for a while but I can only confirm 1. More may be complete)

I did not include the A330s because a line has not officially opened for them. However, it should be pretty smooth because they will be getting the same seats as the 744s.

Now, down to the actual topic. There's been much speculation on where we might see the 744 once flatbeds are installed. Some routes thrown out there have been LAX-SYD and ATL-TLV (now discontinued). As for the 763ER, i've suspected that one of the BOS-LHR frequencies will be downgraded to a 763 along with MIA-LHR going to a 763. I also think that there can be some re-shufflin of 764s and 763s. I think the capacity is needed in such places as CDG and AMS but the airplanes are not there because they are busy flying to MUC/FRA/MAD, etc. This was a competitive move on DL's part for the sole reason that they are non SkyTeam hubs and competition is tough.

I think the added Y seats on the 764 can be used to Amsterdam and Paris ex ATL and other hubs. I suspect the Star and OneWorld hubs (save LHR) will go back to 763s. As for the 333s, that's a head scratcher. DL really loves the type because of the "heaviness" of the Y cabin, offering more seats than the T7. Destinations like DUB and FCO makes perfect sense and I don't think that will change. My guess is it'll remain status quo with some shake-up during the summer months when the extra lift is needed. We may very well see one on ATL-LHR once mods are complete.

Thoughts?

Big version: Width: 250 Height: 141 File size: 59kb

744/A330 Seats

http://www.flickr.com/photos/65267791@N08/5976021170/
763ER mods

[Edited 2011-10-19 10:42:41]
What gets measured gets done.
 
panamair
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RE: DL Post Flatbed Mods - Route & A/C Speculation

Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:11 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Thread starter):
767-300ER 1/59 (ship 1608 has been in service for a while but I can only confirm 1. More may be complete)

Three 763ERs are done now - ships 1608, 1611, and 1612. 1609 and 1613 are currently undergoing mods.
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: DL Post Flatbed Mods - Route & A/C Speculation

Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:02 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Thread starter):
new Pinnacle seats being put in are especially designed for the new system. If any of you have traveled on an MD-90 lately, you'll see the outline for where the monitor is suppose to be. The following is what's COMPLETE:

I thought the B/E Aerospace Pinnacle was only going into the A330; last time I heard the 744s were to get Weber 5751s with the Panasonic Eco 9i monitors. Perhaps DL changed plans for the 744.
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
 
airtran737
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RE: DL Post Flatbed Mods - Route & A/C Speculation

Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:42 pm

I just flew ATL-JFK on DL72 and had one of the new 767's. It was a pretty nice ride, and I like it better than the 777 seats.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: DL Post Flatbed Mods - Route & A/C Speculation

Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:45 pm

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 3):

You're talking up front or in the back?

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 2):

I may be mistaken dear friend. What type of seat is the one being used in the MD-90s? I may be mixing the two up.

Quoting panamair (Reply 1):
Three 763ERs are done now - ships 1608, 1611, and 1612. 1609 and 1613 are currently undergoing mods.

Cool, thanks!! I only hope that the 744s are done quickly (it's only 15) to make room for the A330s.
What gets measured gets done.
 
airtran737
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RE: DL Post Flatbed Mods - Route & A/C Speculation

Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:58 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 4):
You're talking up front or in the back?

Up front
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: DL Post Flatbed Mods - Route & A/C Speculation

Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:20 pm

From what i've been told, the overhead monitors will be maintained for the interim until the new Panasonic monitors are installed. This does not effect Business Elite though, of course. Those seats will be getting the 15.4 inch monitors found on the T7s.

[Edited 2011-10-22 10:37:51 by SA7700]
What gets measured gets done.
 
lucky777
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RE: DL Post Flatbed Mods - Route & A/C Speculation

Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:34 pm

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 3):
I just flew ATL-JFK on DL72 and had one of the new 767's. It was a pretty nice ride, and I like it better than the 777 seats.

Uggh...the 767 lie-flats are WAY TOOOOOO narrow at shoulder level in the lie-flat mode. I suspect a good majority of people, certainly the men anyhow, are forced to sleep on their sides due to the narrowness of the seat around the shoulders.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: DL Post Flatbed Mods - Route & A/C Speculation

Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:41 pm

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 10):
Uggh...the 767 lie-flats are WAY TOOOOOO narrow at shoulder level in the lie-flat mode. I suspect a good majority of people, certainly the men anyhow, are forced to sleep on their sides due to the narrowness of the seat around the shoulders.

I have to agree. The seats are a bit narrow for my taste and i'm narrow myslef LOL standing a 5'7" and weighing 144. T be fair, what's the percentage of people that sleep on theair stomach or back vs their side? With that being said, it has a lot to do with perception and the design of the pod. I will still take the bed over a recliner or angled flat-bed found in busiess on other carriers. Also, call me crazy but the narrowness sort of put me to sleep. Cradles you so to speak. In other seats, i've found myself unable to sleep well because I don't find it comfortable to sleep on my back and when on my side, I was sliding all over the place.
What gets measured gets done.
 
NYCAdvantage
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RE: DL Post Flatbed Mods - Route & A/C Speculation

Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:29 am

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 11):
I have to agree. The seats are a bit narrow for my taste and i'm narrow myslef LOL standing a 5'7" and weighing 144.

Have you tried them already?
 
klkla
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RE: DL Post Flatbed Mods - Route & A/C Speculation

Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:38 am

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 4):
Cool, thanks!! I only hope that the 744s are done quickly (it's only 15) to make room for the A330s.

I flew DL's A330 for the first time fairly recently and the current angled lie-flats are horrible so I couldn't agree more. Those seats are so hard compared to most business class seats. I wouldn't rate it any higher than the cradle seats on the current 767s.

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 10):
Uggh...the 767 lie-flats are WAY TOOOOOO narrow at shoulder level in the lie-flat mode.

I didn't notice this. The seat looks really narrow in photos but is roomier in person (at least for me). The width is 21.5 inches and compares favorably with other international business seats and is three inches wider than the seat it replaces.
 
6thfreedom
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RE: DL Post Flatbed Mods - Route & A/C Speculation

Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:15 am

what type of 757s does DL operate to/from NRT?
are there two types for long haul flights and others for regional sectors?
 
timf
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RE: DL Post Flatbed Mods - Route & A/C Speculation

Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:28 am

At this point all of the 757s stationed at NRT are PMNW ones with 20 domestic first class style seats at around 39"-40" pitch. There used to be some BusinessElite equipped PMNW aircraft there as well for the business markets, but those have all been moved back US-based operations.
 
n7371f
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RE: DL Post Flatbed Mods - Route & A/C Speculation

Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:48 am

Quoting timf (Reply 15):

At this point all of the 757s stationed at NRT are PMNW ones with 20 domestic first class style seats at around 39"-40" pitch. There used to be some BusinessElite equipped PMNW aircraft there as well for the business markets, but those have all been moved back US-based operations.

The good old 75J's with the NW foot rests and 3 or 4 closets up front.
 
tristarcrazy
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RE: DL Post Flatbed Mods - Route & A/C Speculation

Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:04 am

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 10):
certainly the men anyhow, are forced to sleep on their sides

Well that should cut down on the snoring!!!
717,722,732,733,737.738,739,742,744.752,753,763,764,772,L10,L15,DC3,DC6,DC8,DC9,DC10,MD11,MD80,MD90,CV880,A310,A319,A320
 
atlflyer
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RE: DL Post Flatbed Mods - Route & A/C Speculation

Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:33 am

Where did you get the info that AVOD installation in Y on the 744 was delayed?
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: DL Post Flatbed Mods - Route & A/C Speculation

Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:36 am

Quoting NYCAdvantage (Reply 12):
Have you tried them already?

Yes. I've done 3 roundtrips to MAD via JFK and ATL on the 764 as well as 4 round trips to LHR via MSP, ATL, and JFK. I really like the seat. It does look narrow but it isn't that bad once you're actually in it. Sitting is very comfortable and once in full bed mode, you should be fast asleep in no time. The one issue I didn't mention is the duvet. It's pretty big and takes up a lot of room in the pod and you either have to hang the excess over the side or stuff it in the cradle.
What gets measured gets done.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: DL Post Flatbed Mods - Route & A/C Speculation

Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:03 am

Quoting panamair (Reply 1):
Three 763ERs are done now - ships 1608, 1611, and 1612. 1609 and 1613 are currently undergoing mods.

Thanks for that! I looked up the flights for the next 3 days and it seems like they are are doing very randon flights.
What gets measured gets done.
 
NYCAdvantage
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RE: DL Post Flatbed Mods - Route & A/C Speculation

Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:47 am

Quoting klkla (Reply 13):
I flew DL's A330 for the first time fairly recently and the current angled lie-flats are horrible so I couldn't agree more.

I Agree with you Just came from AMS on a A332 and good thing I didn't need to sleep, even thou it still better than the one they are replacing on the 767.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 19):
Yes. I've done 3 roundtrips to MAD via JFK and ATL on the 764 as well as 4 round trips to LHR via MSP, ATL, and JFK. I really like the seat. It does look narrow but it isn't that bad once you're actually in it. Sitting is very comfortable and once in full bed mode, you should be fast asleep in no time.

I am glad because the 77LR J angle, I found kind of uncomfortable 14 hours to SYD, specially if when traveling with wife.
beside I may be available to try it in a few month in my way BCN, thanx
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: DL Post Flatbed Mods - Route & A/C Speculation

Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:42 am

Quoting NYCAdvantage (Reply 21):

DL was a little too late with the new seat design that's being used on the 744s and 330s. Lead time on new seats can be months and months in advance. There's a lot of work involved and a contract is usually required. They had already signed the contract and paid for the seats found on the 77Es/Ls. They received a lot of complaints at the FlyerTalk conference in ATL and opted for the other design (which is actually a totally different seat; its not just revered) that faces in in the center and out towards the windows. So here we are.

I'm still unsure as to what the long term plans are for the 75Es. Those seats are leased and it won't be too hard to return them whenever that is to put in something more competative.
What gets measured gets done.
 
crownvic
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RE: DL Post Flatbed Mods - Route & A/C Speculation

Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:55 am

These angled seats are a "give and take" deal. Here is my opinion of the new DL J Class. I flew one of their first 77L NRT-LAX flights, the beginning of the month.

The positive:
1) Definitely more comfortable than the older NWA pod seats
2) More private and personal

The negative:
1) The windows are rendered practically useless. I still like to look out the window and just do not understand why airlines feel nobody looks out the window anymore. VERY DISAPPOINTING from this aspect and that alone, make me prefer the old version.
2) Storage space, is a bit of a problem. One of the reasons CX has/is doing away w/ this seating is because of the "coffin" feeling and lack of storage space. CX makes you put everything in the overhead. DL was a little more lenient and did allow me to keep some things under the foot rest stool. It seems airlines just want you to use the overhead for most items, in this config.
3) The monitor is too small. Other airlines w/ this angled config, use a larger monitor.
4) Crew has to perform manual safety briefings, because DL did not install any "public" monitors anywhere in this cabin. These monitors are also good for flight tracking when in the "idle" mode. Now, you're forced to exit your programming, if you want to see where your flights progress is...
5) During gate, take off and landing mode, your forced to look at your adjacent passenger and their feet. Better angles of the partitions could hav prevented this and allowed for better window viewing

Overall though and despite more complaints than assets, it is a better product (aside from the window issue).
 
n313us
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RE: DL Post Flatbed Mods - Route & A/C Speculation

Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:31 am

Have the MD90's already had the new seats installed and they are just waiting for the AVOD monitors to be delivered? Also, when are they expecting to have all the modifications complete, in other words when will all of DL's int. wide bodies have lie flat seats and nose to tail AVOD? When will all the MD90's be equipped with AVOD?
 
rwy04lga
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RE: DL Post Flatbed Mods - Route & A/C Speculation

Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:37 am

Quoting crownvic (Reply 23):
The windows are rendered practically useless. I still like to look out the window and just do not understand why airlines feel nobody looks out the window anymore. VERY DISAPPOINTING from this aspect and that alone, make me prefer the old version

That's my #1 gripe as well and the main reason that I prefer the 764 seats.
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
delimit
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RE: DL Post Flatbed Mods - Route & A/C Speculation

Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:27 pm

Quoting klkla (Reply 13):
The width is 21.5 inches and compares favorably with other international business seats and is three inches wider than the seat it replaces.

The problem isn't width at the butt, it is width at the shoulders. The cradles aren't constrained by side walls when reclined.

Quoting crownvic (Reply 23):
4) Crew has to perform manual safety briefings,

That's a positive! It means I can continue to enjoy watching each flight attendant's take on the exit location wave.  
I hated the advent of pre-recoded safety demontrations.

Quoting crownvic (Reply 23):
5) During gate, take off and landing mode, your forced to look at your adjacent passenger and their feet. Better angles of the partitions could hav prevented this and allowed for better window viewing

The 747s and 330s fix this by reversing the position of the heads and feet with respect to the aisle. People also like this as they are facing a window, although I don't find it much of an improvement, because you are then further from the window when upright. When I am sitting in a traditional seat on the ground my face is plastered to the plastic to get the widest angle of view possible.

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 25):
That's my #1 gripe as well and the main reason that I prefer the 764 seats.

As much as I like looking out the window on the ground and during take off and landing, give me the 777 seats any day, because for the vast majority of the flight they are more comfortable, and I am mostly bored by clouds aftrer about 5 minutes.
 
crownvic
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RE: DL Post Flatbed Mods - Route & A/C Speculation

Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:34 am

Back to the window issue, upon further thought, when flying long haul, we are all "ordered" to close our window shades for most of the flight anyway, so I guess if it were up to the airlines, they would do away with windows and force us to sleep after t/o through to arrival  

Delimit...Good news on the 747 and A330 revisions...

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