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Delta Confirms Domestic Economy Comfort

Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:30 pm

http://blog.delta.com/2011/10/20/mor...-comfort-means-more-room-to-relax/

To launch next summer, with free access for elites – though limited for Silver Medallion members.

Thoughts? Will AA follow suit, or stay put?

[Edited 2011-10-20 07:33:19]
 
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Polot
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RE: Delta Confirms Domestic Economy Comfort

Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:38 pm

Not a surprise considering UA's decision to keep economy plus even for domestic.
 
micstatic
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RE: Delta Confirms Domestic Economy Comfort

Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:02 pm

So no free drinks on the domestic EC?
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delta2ual
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RE: Delta Confirms Domestic Economy Comfort

Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:45 pm

Quoting micstatic (Reply 2):
So no free drinks on the domestic EC?

Why would they? Here's the difference between the 2:

UA: 5 inches more legroom. Free drinks on international. No early boarding.

DL: 4 inches more legroom. 50% greater recline. Free drinks on international. Early boarding.

Neither offer free drinks on domestic.
Now where UA is smarter, is they sell priority boarding separately, thus once again increasing ancillary revenues. Plus you can buy a one year "subscription" and combine it with Premier Fast Track and/or United Club membership.
From the world's largest airline-to the world's largest airline. Delta2ual
 
UAL777UK
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RE: Delta Confirms Domestic Economy Comfort

Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:49 pm

Quoting polot (Reply 1):
Not a surprise considering UA's decision to keep economy plus even for domestic.

Very true.

It will be interesting to see if AA decide to react to this now that both their main competitors are going this route (Old UA some time ago of course). Something else for AA to "worry" about?
 
airbazar
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RE: Delta Confirms Domestic Economy Comfort

Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:53 pm

Quoting delta2ual (Reply 3):
UA: 5 inches more legroom. Free drinks on international. No early boarding.

What exactly is the benefit of early boarding? I see none.
It's not like WN where there's no assigned seating. And as a Y+ passenger you'll always be boarding before "the masses" in Y so you know you'll allways have plenty of overhead bin space.
 
United1
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RE: Delta Confirms Domestic Economy Comfort

Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:59 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 6):
What exactly is the benefit of early boarding? I see none.

Y+ does get you early boarding if you are a premier....and early boarding gives you easier access to the overhead bins.
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delta2ual
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RE: Delta Confirms Domestic Economy Comfort

Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:11 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 6):
What exactly is the benefit of early boarding? I see none.

IDK. Ask all the people that swarm a gate during boarding like they're trying to get on the last lifeboat being launched from a sinking ship!
From the world's largest airline-to the world's largest airline. Delta2ual
 
LONGisland89
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RE: Delta Confirms Domestic Economy Comfort

Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:42 pm

Exactly what I was thinking.

http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=43&item=1476

The article says, "The product will be installed in the first three-to-five rows of the Economy cabin by removing a negligible number of seats from the current cabin configuration." If you remove 1 entire row and divide that space for 3-5 EC rows, you'd have a lot more than EC's 34 inch pitch. So the only other way to do this (without adjusting closets/cabin dividers) is to very slightly reduce pitch in regular economy. Not that I'm against this, I love the idea of Y+, but I think there is more than meets the eye here.

[Edited 2011-10-20 11:24:04 by SA7700]
 
panamair
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RE: Delta Confirms Domestic Economy Comfort

Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:49 pm

Since September, domestic First has real tablecloth, trendy new faux-wood trays, and real cloth napkins....

[Edited 2011-10-20 11:26:39 by SA7700]
 
ikramerica
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RE: Delta Confirms Domestic Economy Comfort

Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:54 pm

Quoting panamair (Reply 18):
Since September, domestic First has real tablecloth, trendy new faux-wood trays, and real cloth napkins....

Glad to see they brought "class" back. That paper stuff was just insulting to anyone who actually paid for F. They put a soft texture on it to try to make it seem expensive, but it didn't even cover the tray table.
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FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Delta Confirms Domestic Economy Comfort

Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:39 pm

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 16):

When was the last time you flew DL up front? I think you should check out my most recent TR  
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jacobin777
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RE: Delta Confirms Domestic Economy Comfort

Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:42 pm

Quoting delta2ual (Reply 3):
Now where UA is smarter, is they sell priority boarding separately, thus once again increasing ancillary revenues. Plus you can buy a one year "subscription" and combine it with Premier Fast Track and/or United Club membership.

Even though I'm PL on AA, I wish AA does something like this. I would probably purchase the yearly membership just to know I will have a decent seat on any AA flight.

Apropos, UA used to charge $350/year a few years ago.

Quoting United1 (Reply 7):
and early boarding gives you easier access to the overhead bins.

  . Having flown 8 times the past 10 days, boarding early is definitely a plus!

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 16):
I'm fine with Y+. The legroom is all that really matters to me,

  .
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ikramerica
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RE: Delta Confirms Domestic Economy Comfort

Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:47 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 20):
When was the last time you flew DL up front? I think you should check out my most recent TR

Sometime in the last year, IIRC. But again, they changed the product last month, so it's a new development.
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FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Delta Confirms Domestic Economy Comfort

Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:05 pm

W

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 22):

Gotcha. I mean I really don't fault you I fault DL. They did a lot of things wrong for quite a while but they've made strides over the past 24 months. Pulling the ovens out the 88s was a mistake. Taking meals off flights in excess of 3 hrs was a mistake. Cheapening F by pulling real tableware and offering "refreshments" on SJU-ATL was a mistake. I really can go on and on. During BK I think they cut a lot of unnecessary corners but it's gotten much better and there are more +s to come.
What gets measured gets done.
 
airbazar
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RE: Delta Confirms Domestic Economy Comfort

Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:18 pm

Quoting United1 (Reply 7):
Y+ does get you early boarding if you are a premier....and early boarding gives you easier access to the overhead bins.

You get early boarding regardless of status. I guess it depends on what you consider "early".
Every flight that I've been on, boards front to back. Y+ is at the front so by default Y+ boards earlier than Y and therefore allows easy access to overhead bins.

Quoting delta2ual (Reply 10):
IDK. Ask all the people that swarm a gate during boarding like they're trying to get on the last lifeboat being launched from a sinking ship!

All those people are in Y. they all also stand up as soon as the plane stops too, probably. But we're discussing UA's Y+ supposed no early boarding vs. Delta's EC early boarding. In premium economy I don't see a difference. You're boarding before the rest of economy, regardless.
 
BD338
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RE: Delta Confirms Domestic Economy Comfort

Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:28 pm

Once this is rolled out, and assuming PHX-SLC is in the $20 one way upgrade range ($10 with my lowly silver status) there's a good chance DL might be getting my business back from WN. Good move, I've bought Y+ on DL international and legroom is all I care about and that was a good buy.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Delta Confirms Domestic Economy Comfort

Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:35 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 14):

I think UA and DL are making Y+ the "upgrade" perk for silver and gold. There is also the baggage fee waiver, boarding and security priority, etc. but those are also available to credit card holders.
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United1
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RE: Delta Confirms Domestic Economy Comfort

Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:56 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 15):
Every flight that I've been on, boards front to back.

I'm not sure how DL boards flights but UA does not board front to back they use a system called "wilma" to board their flights.

UA boards in the following order:
Premier Access
Window Seats (and any passengers on their PNR)
Middle Seats (and any passengers on their PNR)
Aisle Seats

(there are a few more categories ie Military, special needs, ect but that's the basic process)

Simply buying access Y+ at check-in on UA does not guarantee you will have first dibs on the overhead bins. Apparently on DL they will offer early boarding to anyone who books a Y+seat which is a nice perk but I suppose the reason that they can get away with it doing it is that (assuming the now deleted configurations above were correct) is their Y+ cabins are a bit smaller then UAs. If UA were to do it that way there would be a huge traffic jam at the front of the plane.
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DLMD90
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RE: Delta Confirms Domestic Economy Comfort

Thu Oct 20, 2011 7:27 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 14):
Gotcha. I mean I really don't fault you I fault DL. They did a lot of things wrong for quite a while but they've made strides over the past 24 months. Pulling the ovens out the 88s was a mistake. Taking meals off flights in excess of 3 hrs was a mistake. Cheapening F by pulling real tableware and offering "refreshments" on SJU-ATL was a mistake. I really can go on and on. During BK I think they cut a lot of unnecessary corners but it's gotten much better and there are more +s to come.

Agreed! Let's hope one of those +s is better Domestic First Class meals, they truly are lacking.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Delta Confirms Domestic Economy Comfort

Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:19 pm

Is this gonna lead to 500 mile type upgrades for elites? No more unlimited possilbly? Economy comfort could be there now you have a little more room so we can charge or limit upgrades? Im just throwing an idea out here i have not heard anything or want this to happen
 
ikramerica
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RE: Delta Confirms Domestic Economy Comfort

Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:30 pm

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 20):
Is this gonna lead to 500 mile type upgrades for elites? No more unlimited possilbly? Economy comfort could be there now you have a little more room so we can charge or limit upgrades? Im just throwing an idea out here i have not heard anything or want this to happen

UA switched to UDU, so why would DL switch away?

As a silver, you aren't likely to get an upgrade these days unless you are on a flight like LAX-YVR on saturday morning (my wife and I both got upgraded). Otherwise, it's Y+ all the way.
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FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Delta Confirms Domestic Economy Comfort

Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:35 am

Airlines are actually selling more and more F seats than say 4 years ago. "Back in the day" when my sister was a Silver Medallion, she was almost always upgraded and she mostly flew through DCA and ORD. Now, it's not uncommon for DIAMONDS to be on the airport standby list on the day of departure. I was looking at some statiistics the other day and DL sells about 91% of their Business Elite seats at full fare on the JFK-LAX/SFO run. So basically, only 10% of the total seats are going to complimentary medallion upgrades. Also saw that the routes account for about 1% of the overall ticker revenue system-wide. That's a lot when looking at total ticket sale revenue. This is why you will seldom see 3 day advanced upgrades. They hold back most of the inventory up until day of departure which was not the case in the past.
What gets measured gets done.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Delta Confirms Domestic Economy Comfort

Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:37 am

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 22):
"Back in the day" when my sister was a Silver Medallion, she was almost always upgraded and she mostly flew through DCA and ORD. Now, it's not uncommon for DIAMONDS to be on the airport standby list on the day of departure.

Tell me about it. Just a year and a half ago I was able to non-rev in F domestically all the time. Now the upgrade list is almost the whole plane! At least DL is making good money off it, that is the important part
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qqflyboy
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RE: Delta Confirms Domestic Economy Comfort

Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:53 pm

AA has been making marked attempts at better aligning it's product with that of it's JV partners BA, IB and JAL. I think it's almost certain we'll see some kind of premium economy product next year, likely launched with the 77Ws coming in 4Q12. We'll see it roll out to the rest of the 777s, at the very least. Whether or not it goes fleet wide, who knows. From a competitive standpoint, AA may be forced to go fleet wide with the product, but the one thing is for sure, maintenance at AA is maxed, with numerous in-house projects underway including upgrading the avionics on the 763/757 fleets, cabin upgrades on the original 738 (42 remain for conversion) and 75D (75 remain for conversion). And that's just scratching the surface of M&E's work load. They don't have the capacity to take this on just yet, IMHO.
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Concordski
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RE: Delta Confirms Domestic Economy Comfort

Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:56 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 14):
W

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 22):

Gotcha. I mean I really don't fault you I fault DL. They did a lot of things wrong for quite a while but they've made strides over the past 24 months. Pulling the ovens out the 88s was a mistake. Taking meals off flights in excess of 3 hrs was a mistake. Cheapening F by pulling real tableware and offering "refreshments" on SJU-ATL was a mistake. I really can go on and on. During BK I think they cut a lot of unnecessary corners but it's gotten much better and there are more +s to come.

I just wanted to correct a statement stated here. I just flew ATL-SJU in F on 10/16/2011 and I was served a full hot meal.
 
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fanoftristars
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RE: Delta Confirms Domestic Economy Comfort

Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:01 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 23):
Tell me about it. Just a year and a half ago I was able to non-rev in F domestically all the time. Now the upgrade list is almost the whole plane! At least DL is making good money off it, that is the important part

Agreed. I dropped from PM to GM this year and my upgrade percentage has dropped from 85% to 10%. I just don't get upgraded as a GM. Even last week, SLC-DEN, I was #22+ on the list with 1-2 seats left. On my way home from DEN last week There were Diamonds sitting in the back (made me feel a little better). DL has dropped pricing and done a better job marketing the front cabin, especially on these shorter routes. I'm wondering what their overall domestic percentage is for F seats sold vs upgrades and how it compares to last year.
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VC10er
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RE: Delta Confirms Domestic Economy Comfort

Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:19 am

I read that DL is 3" more leg room with more recline. UA is 5" more leg room. But given the general HORRIBLE recline any Y seat, could we see UA turn a screw and add more recline?
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FSDan
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RE: Delta Confirms Domestic Economy Comfort

Sat Oct 22, 2011 4:38 am

I think it's interesting that they mention installing it on the DC-9s. Are they really going to be around long enough to make the upgrade worth it?
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FWAERJ
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RE: Delta Confirms Domestic Economy Comfort

Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:36 pm

Quoting FSDan (Reply 28):

I think it's interesting that they mention installing it on the DC-9s. Are they really going to be around long enough to make the upgrade worth it?

Boggles my mind, too. The DC-9s should be gone by the end of 2012, but DL is launching domestic Economy Comfort for spring/summer 2012 travel. Maybe the upgrades will be worth the expense?
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timf
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RE: Delta Confirms Domestic Economy Comfort

Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:47 pm

The expense associated with installing Economy Comfort is minimal. It is really only the labor cost of moving some seats and overhead panels around. While it does seem silly to reconfigure DC-9s for only 6 months, at least it keeps the product consistent and brings the prospect of added revenue.