ContinentalEWR
Topic Author
Posts: 3619
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

AF Finally Making Right Choices

Thu Oct 05, 2000 10:06 pm

One of Air France's biggest problems has been its high
maintenance costs, associated with the operation of
so many different aircraft types. There never seemed
to be coherence in their aircraft fleet planning. That
is slowly changing and for the better.

At one point AF had the 747-100, 200, 300, 400,
B767-300, B777, A340, A319, A320, A321, A310,
A300, B737-200, B737-500....what a mess!!!!!!!!
After all, it is Europe's third biggest airline and is
overall operating a fleet of about 200 aircraft so
it is hard to understand what they were doing!

Now things are changing. AF has realized the
value and oustanding operational performance
of the B777 vs. the A340 and the order for the
777-300 is an indication that rationalization is
in and deference to Airbus Industrie is out, at
least in the long-haul category.

I am one of those naysayers who thinks the
A3XX won't fly so I am discounting it from
my argument here.

The A320 family are very well suited for AF
short- and medium- haul operations and in
my opinion, they should continue to build
the fleet around the A320 family.

The 747-400 is exceptional for high-capacity
long haul flights and operating alongside the
777-200 and from 2003, the 777-300 is a
very clever strategy. The 767-300 or some
767-400's would be my pick over the A330
for maintenance and overall streamlining,
but that's just my opinion. The 767's were
acquired with UTA and my understanding
is that they will be out of the fleet in the
next few years anyway.

Now, if we could just get them to get rid
of those A340's! I don't think the A340 is
a bad plane at all. A little underpowered,
but a good, solid airliner and a money-
maker. The problem is that I don't think
it fits well in a 747/777 fleet.

Now, don't let this start a Boeing vs.
Airbus war or something stupid and
childish like that. I think both aircraft
makers produce fine products and it
is good to have competition. It keeps
both on their toes and the develop-
ment teams hard at work.

ContinentalEWR
 
Mr.BA
Posts: 3310
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2000 12:26 pm

RE: AF Finally Making Right Choices

Thu Oct 05, 2000 10:10 pm

Hello ContinentalEwr,

I agree with you. By the way, is Lufthansa the second largest European Airline???

Alvin
Boeing747 万岁!
 
ContinentalEWR
Topic Author
Posts: 3619
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

RE: AF Finally Making Right Choices

Thu Oct 05, 2000 10:14 pm

Yes, I think it is. BA is the biggest, followed by LH,
then AF, and then I believe it is either AZ or IB.

ContinentalEWR
 
Mr.BA
Posts: 3310
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2000 12:26 pm

RE: AF Finally Making Right Choices

Thu Oct 05, 2000 10:16 pm

ContinentalEWR,

I think the fourth largest airline in Europe should be KLM. They have 265 aircrafts in service. AZ or IB don't have that much I guess.

Regards

Alvin


Boeing747 万岁!
 
Guest

RE: AF Finally Making Right Choices

Thu Oct 05, 2000 10:33 pm

Dear C.EWR
Thanks for your mail,I'm sending it to AF HQ.
A few points,though:
AF fleet was rather old,so it did include several versions of-basically- the same aircraft,updated and AF was not the only airline having at one time all versions of the 747.
When UTA was bought,AFG fleet took over their airplanes,which were not in AF inventory :the 747-300,767,737-300,400,500 and the DC-10.They decided to sell the 10's and the 737-300 and400's.
The 777 seems to become one-and I insist,ONE-of the mainstays of the future fleet,as more A-340's are in the pipeline as well as more A-330's(What versions,I really don't know) which will ring the death of the 767's and the A-310's.
What you say about the baby buses is quite true,you just forget to say that they form one fleet,having very little differences in terms of ops and maintenance.
The 737's are on their way out.
To sum all this up,the AF fleet,within the next three years will be made of :
747-400's
777's
A340/A330's
And the A-320 family
Some of the contributors to this thread will come out with accurate numbers.Just be careful,we are on the verge of a major aicraft ordering spree.
Add another two years and the A-350 will be added to the list above.
We,as pilots,are rejoicing in the prospect of thousands of opportunities to fly one of these magnificent machines.
Cheers.
 
TriStar500
Posts: 4411
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 1999 9:50 pm

RE: AF Finally Making Right Choices

Fri Oct 06, 2000 12:11 am

AFAIK, AF did not get rid of the 733's, but continued to use a couple of them and even added some during 1998/99 (?) as a stopgap measure before more similar-sized A319's will be delivered.
However, correct me if I am wrong, I just kept seeing those AF (not Aeropostale) 733's at CDG for the last five or six years or so.
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
ContinentalEWR
Topic Author
Posts: 3619
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

RE: AF Finally Making Right Choices

Fri Oct 06, 2000 12:15 am

Hi Mr. BA,

KLM is nowhere near that figure. BA alone has about
250 aircraft. KLM has less than 100 aircraft in service
and is comparable in size (fleet) to Swissair.

Air France has about 220 planes. Lufthansa around
250. Alitalia has 178.

ContinentalEWR
 
Guest

RE: AF Finally Making Right Choices

Thu Oct 12, 2000 6:07 am

No way, BA is NOT largest european airline. Lufthansa is first, AF is second. In the world, LH is second, AF third( UAL first ).
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: AF Finally Making Right Choices

Thu Oct 12, 2000 6:50 am

In the world, the top three are United, Delta, and American (and in that order, I think). They have the biggest fleets and carry the most passengers. Lufthansa and Air France are half their respective sizes of fleets and number of pax carried. American has as many MD-82s as Air France has planes, and Delta has more MD-88s than KLM has aircraft also. You'd have to not count US airlines if your world order.
 
RIX
Posts: 1589
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2000 4:46 am

RE: AF Finally Making Right Choices

Thu Oct 12, 2000 10:27 pm

The same in Europe: BA is bigger than LH and much bigger than AF. It is the fifth biggest in the world and the biggest outside the US.
 
ContinentalEWR
Topic Author
Posts: 3619
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

RE: AF Finally Making Right Choices

Thu Oct 12, 2000 10:36 pm

L'Espace 180,

You've got it all wrong. United is the biggest airline in the world although Delta
carriers more passengers worldwide than any other airline. The airline rankings
are as follows (note the five biggest US carriers are the world's five biggest air
lines)

1. United
2. American
3. Delta
4. Northwest
5. Continental
6. British Airways
7. US Airways
8. Lufthansa
9. Air France
10. Air Canada

ContinentalEWR