Carls
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Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 4:16 pm

In my last flight from Caracas to Frankfurt i spend almost two hours talking to a LH FA, I have met him several times before and while I can't say we are friends we have since many times now spend some time talking about several topics. i asked him about LH fleet and he said that they were getting ready to order a new fleet of new generation aircraft.

This is what he mentioned to me:

85 Aircraft in total:
20 Airbus A351
35 Airbus A359
30 Boeing 789

I am not familiar with the process of aircraft ordering and how airlines make projections for their need but 85 planes looks like an small order for an airline like Lufthansa. I was thinking more like 100 or 130 since they order for LH, LX and Austrian.

I just want to share this rumor with all of you, and see what you guys have o say about it.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 4:40 pm

Frankly, I'd be amazed if this site's first news about a potential LH order came from an FA and was accurate.  Wow!

With regard to the makeup of the "order", if it's only for LH, then it would be about the right size - LH currently operates 69 A333/A343/A346. But, with 24 A340-600s in their fleet, I would have expected to see a higher number of A350-1000s.
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FRNT787
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 4:54 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 1):
But, with 24 A340-600s in their fleet, I would have expected to see a higher number of A350-1000s.

I would too. I am of the opinion though that part of the 747-8 orders/options are slated to eventually replace some A340-600
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shaq
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 4:54 pm

Galley Gossip , isn't credible my friend!
I'm sure that LH will make a big order of widebodies , to replace the ones they have, but I don't know if it will be now.
As a sidenote, CM FA's once (2005) were talking that IB will be having a hub in PTY...
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bobnwa
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 4:55 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 1):
Frankly, I'd be amazed if this site's first news about a potential LH order came from an FA and was accurate.

Exactly, if it is a FA rumor, the it is very likely, not to be valid.
 
kaitak
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 4:57 pm

There is definitely a need for them; I have no doubt that he was being honest with you, but what he heard might have come through several other people and some of the information was probably lost/changed along the way.

The A340-300 fleet is not getting any younger; the A350-900 seems to be the obvious choice there; the A330-300s and A346s are newer, so they probably won't need replacing until later this decade (along with LX's A340s), but again the A359 (and 351) seem the obvious choices; I just don't see how the 787 fits into LH's plans.
 
columba
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:28 pm

Well, I would take this order with a grain of salt but it looks plausible from the aircraft ordered, I would have expected the same.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 1):
I would have expected to see a higher number of A350-1000s.

They have a lot of 747-8Is coming that will eventually replace some of the A346s.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 5):
I just don't see how the 787 fits into LH's plans.

Does not mean that the 787 has to be for LH, but for OS or LX ? Would love to see a 787 in LH colors though   Also LH always said that they don´t want to be dependant on one manufacturer.

Quoting Carls (Thread starter):
I am not familiar with the process of aircraft ordering and how airlines make projections for their need but 85 planes looks like an small order for an airline like Lufthansa

Keep in mind LH never placed huge orders but has more of a conservative approach.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
BoeingVista
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:37 pm

Quoting columba (Reply 6):
They have a lot of 747-8Is coming that will eventually replace some of the A346s.

Presumably they will also replace some 747-400's too some of them are older than the A340-600's
BV
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:42 pm

Quoting Carls (Thread starter):
but 85 planes looks like an small order for an airline like Lufthansa.

Things have really changed over the years. It wasn't that long ago that an 85-plane widebody order would be considered incredible. Today, it's considered on the light side.  

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Polot
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:43 pm

Quoting columba (Reply 6):
Does not mean that the 787 has to be for LH, but for OS or LX ? Would love to see a 787 in LH colors though Also LH always said that they don´t want to be dependant on one manufacturer.

787s might also be nice for growing the DUS and MUC hubs to thinner destinations.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:44 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 1):
But, with 24 A340-600s in their fleet, I would have expected to see a higher number of A350-1000s.

A number of those A340-600s are relatively new-builds, are they not?

If so, this could be just the first tranche, though I tend to agree with others that some of those A340-600s might be replaced with 747-8's on routes that saw a strong up-tick in Business Class seating as I expect the A350-1000 would be six-abreast in Business, as well, and fit around the same 60 seats as the A340-600 as opposed to the 80 going into the 747-8.



Quoting kaitak (Reply 5):
I just don't see how the 787 fits into LH's plans.

A lighter weight and less powerful (thirsty) engines might give it better economics on the shorter mission segments the A330-300 flies.

Mind you, I've long been of the opinion LH would be an all-Airbus airline if they could, but since they had to take the 747-8 to be the 400-seat bridge between the A340-600/A350-1000 and A380-800, adding the 787 (with GEnx power) could give them better negotiating power with both Airbus and Boeing for not only their own orders, but also for other members of the LH Group who will need fleet replacements.

[Edited 2011-10-22 10:48:06]
 
BoeingVista
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:58 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 10):
Mind you, I've long been of the opinion LH would be an all-Airbus airline if they could, but since they had to take the 747-8 to be the 400-seat bridge between the A340-600/A350-1000 and A380-800, adding the 787 (with GEnx power) could give them better negotiating power with both Airbus and Boeing for not only their own orders, but also for other members of the LH Group who will need fleet replacements.


Why? You could as easily argue that having RR powered A346 & A388 makes RR the logical 787 engine choice from a spares and supplier point of view, they did change LX A330's to RR.

But as LH is as much an engineering and maintenance group who does a large amount of GE work I don't think it makes a difference they will get a good deal from either OEM. They have shown its possible to order nearly everything from everyone and still run a profitable organisation
BV
 
USAirALB
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:02 pm

Quoting FRNT787 (Reply 2):
747-8 orders/options are slated to eventually replace some A340-600

  

That's what I have been led to believe.

On a somewhat related note, a friend of mine of works at CLT management has said that LH has asked CLT to model the 747-8 at their current gate to see if it will fit. I don't know if its true or not, but it is quite possible that LH is planning to use the 747-8 as a A346 replacement. If so, CLT might not be the only station LH is asking to model the 747-8.
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Stitch
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:46 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 10):
Mind you, I've long been of the opinion LH would be an all-Airbus airline if they could...
Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 11):
Why?

Because they've selected Airbus consistently when it's come to replacement and expansion: A320, A330, A340 and A380.

And I'm not knocking them for it.   

They're doing what's best for them and having a single OEM for your mainline fleet brings many benefits, even more so with the commonality Airbus tries to build across their families.
 
bmacleod
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:52 pm

Quoting Carls (Thread starter):
This is what he mentioned to me:

85 Aircraft in total:
20 Airbus A351
35 Airbus A359
30 Boeing 789

The Airbus orders would be pretty much expected. I would be surprised if LH does order the Boeing 789 having never operated the 767.
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airbazar
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:54 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 13):
Because they've selected Airbus consistently when it's come to replacement and expansion: A320, A330, A340 and A380.

Those also happened to be the best aircraft in their respective categories at the time of the orders. I think that's more relevant.
The A320s were ordered long before there was even a paper 737NG. The A340's were ordered before there was a 777. The A333's spank any other aircraft in their profile mission, some say it's just as good as the 787. And Boeing didn't have a 748i when LH ordered the A380. I like to think that LH didn't oder Airbuses but rather, that LH ordered the best aircraft available at the time of each respective order.
 
fpetrutiu
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:14 pm

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 14):
The Airbus orders would be pretty much expected. I would be surprised if LH does order the Boeing 789 having never operated the 767.

What does that have anything to do with anything? Are you saying only 767 operators order 787's?
 
328JET
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:47 pm

Guys,

forget about the B748I as A346 replacement at LH.
There are no plans to replace these birds right now and they will all operate from MUC starting in 2012/2013.

The first older generation A343s are leaving the fleet in 2012 and will be replaced by already ordered A333s.

I could see an order of A359, A35J and B789s, but in the moment LH has fix orders for 9 A388s, 4 A333s and 20 B748s - that should fill their intermediate needs...

In the long-run, LH will have to decide if they focus on A350s, B777NG or B787s.
 
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Semaex
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:33 pm

Quoting 328JET (Reply 17):
forget about the B748I as A346 replacement at LH.
There are no plans to replace these birds right now and they will all operate from MUC starting in 2012/2013.

If they move the birds from FRA to MUC then there will definitely be a need to replace them at FRA with 748i. One way or the other, the 748i will step in the shoes of the A346; that is not to say that the A346 is aging fast. There's still a lot of life in the frames and I expect LH to start replacing them no earlier than 2018. The A343 is a different issue though. It's very plausible to replace them with the A332 they still have on order, they do just as good on most if not all routes the A343 operates. So I doubt any order for LH Passage for the 787 will come in soon, and even if, minor.

Quoting 328JET (Reply 17):
In the long-run, LH will have to decide if they focus on A350s, B777NG or B787s.

The thought of LH operating the 777 in pax service is very pleasing, but I seriously doubt it. They just ordered 5 frames for LCAG and by the time they have figured out its abilities in the fleet, translating it into pax service, the 777 will not be the best buy on the market anymore. That's why all my money is on the A35J.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 15):
I like to think that LH didn't oder Airbuses but rather, that LH ordered the best aircraft available at the time of each respective order.

   Exactly my thought
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BMI727
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:51 pm

I think that A350s are a foregone conclusion at some point, but unless such an order would cover aircraft for their subsidiaries as well, I don't see why they want the 787. I think that the 787 would be a great choice for Austrian and possibly Swiss, but I don't see Lufthansa having the need.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 11):
Why? You could as easily argue that having RR powered A346 & A388 makes RR the logical 787 engine choice from a spares and supplier point of view, they did change LX A330's to RR.

LH Technik has enough resources that commonality isn't as much of an issue for them.

Quoting Semaex (Reply 18):
The thought of LH operating the 777 in pax service is very pleasing, but I seriously doubt it.

With the 747-8i orders, the Lufthansa 777 ship has sailed even further. Aerologic is as close as you'll get.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
UALWN
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:25 pm

Quoting fpetrutiu (Reply 16):
Quoting bmacleod (Reply 14):
The Airbus orders would be pretty much expected. I would be surprised if LH does order the Boeing 789 having never operated the 767.

What does that have anything to do with anything? Are you saying only 767 operators order 787's?

I guess he's saying that since LH have not operated a long-range wide body of the 767 size, they will continue this way, pass on the 787, and choose the larger 359 and 35J.

But, as several have pointed out, the 787 could be very adequate for Austrian, which does operates the 767.
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Stitch
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:56 pm

Quoting UALWN (Reply 20):
I guess he's saying that since LH have not operated a long-range wide body of the 767 size, they will continue this way, pass on the 787, and choose the larger 359 and 35J.

LH is on record stating the 787-8 was too small for them, which sounds logical as they never operated the A330-200 in any sizable quantity.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:07 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 10):
Quoting kaitak (Reply 5):
I just don't see how the 787 fits into LH's plans.

A lighter weight and less powerful (thirsty) engines might give it better economics on the shorter mission segments the A330-300 flies.
Quoting Stitch (Reply 21):
LH is on record stating the 787-8 was too small for them, which sounds logical as they never operated the A330-200 in any sizable quantity.

I dont' see anything smaller than a B789 for mainline LH. I certainly see them getting the B787-10X for A333 missions. They aren't in a hurry either as many of their A333's are new so for them getting B787-10X in say post 2018 will be ok.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 15):
The A333's spank any other aircraft in their profile mission, some say it's just as good as the 787.

The A333 is an incredible plane for its mission profile, but like everything else, it will eventually have to give way to newer planes.

Quoting 328JET (Reply 17):
I could see an order of A359, A35J and B789s, but in the moment LH has fix orders for 9 A388s, 4 A333s and 20 B748s - that should fill their intermediate needs...

I see this for LH was well (though I think LH subsidiaries will be getting the B789). I wonder if the B788 has a place for LH subsidiaries...  
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Viscount724
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:07 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 10):
Quoting scbriml (Reply 1):
But, with 24 A340-600s in their fleet, I would have expected to see a higher number of A350-1000s.

A number of those A340-600s are relatively new-builds, are they not?

Delivery dates of LH's 24 A346s:

2003 - 4
2004 - 6
2006 - 4
2007 - 3
2008 - 4
2009 - 3
 
queb
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:25 am

The real problem with the A346 is not his age, but its fuel consumption, which is 8-10% higher than the 77W (at Mach 0.83 vs. Mach 0.85 for 77W)
 
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Semaex
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:35 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 19):
With the 747-8i orders, the Lufthansa 777 ship has sailed even further. Aerologic is as close as you'll get.

Actually LCAG Lufthansa Cargo is as close as it gets, and mind you; that's pretty close!

Quoting queb (Reply 24):
The real problem with the A346 is not his age, but its fuel consumption, which is 8-10% higher than the 77W (at Mach 0.83 vs. Mach 0.85 for 77W)

You may be right on the fuel consumption, but according to LH the A346 does not have a "real problem". They love the birds, the pax do as well. LH is the prime example con the common a.net talk that a 777 is always preferable to an A346.
// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
 
ZKOJH
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:51 am

if this becomes true and a big if, would love t see the 787's go to OS, could replace there 767's and 772 fleet, and just have one longhaul aircraft. Swiss would only have Airbus, likewise so would SN. and we can forget BD they are finished with.
Vietnam time..
 
flash330
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:54 am

Quoting queb (Reply 24):

It fuel costs are a worry for LH then the 744s will be gone way before the A346
 
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Stitch
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:58 am

Quoting flash330 (Reply 27):
It fuel costs are a worry for LH then the 744s will be gone way before the A346

Per LH's numbers they're pretty darn close: in terms of liters burned per 100 passenger kilometers, it is 4.1 for the A346 to 4.2 for the 747-400.
 
flash330
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sun Oct 23, 2011 1:09 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 28):

Sure but with the oldest 744 Passing 100,000 cycles theyre not getting any cheaper to maintain either, just seems silly the idea of being more concerned about the operating costs of a 8 year old aircraft than a 20 year old one, unless the A346 really wasn't much of an improvement?
 
jacobin777
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sun Oct 23, 2011 1:31 am

Quoting Semaex (Reply 25):
LH is the prime example con the common a.net talk that a 777 is always preferable to an A346.

Practically every carrier which has compared the A346 against the B77W has purchased the B77W over the A346. The order book speaks volumes.. 

Also, LH (unlike VS and don't know about EY) gets a "fuel burn delta" (against the B77W) "rebate" (I'm using that term loosely as I don't know how the compensation is paid) from Airbus/EADS. I'm sure there are a multitude of other variables involved as well.
"Up the Irons!"
 
queb
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sun Oct 23, 2011 1:43 am

A friend of mine, an Air France 777-200ER retired pilot, was really annoyed to have to slow down every time it flew behind a Lufthansa A340...  
 
wilco737
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:53 am

Rumours rumours... Many many rumours and none of them are credible at that time.

The big order for LH and new airplanes is due September 2012. So we have to be patient.

Everything is still possible. LH is evaluating 350 or 787. And 320NEO or 737MAX or EMB... So all is possible.

wilco737
  
 
cmf
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:01 am

Quoting queb (Reply 31):
was really annoyed to have to slow down every time it flew behind a Lufthansa A340

But never had an issue flying behind a 767   
Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:04 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 10):
A number of those A340-600s are relatively new-builds, are they not?

Indeed they are, but it's not like LH could get -1000s tomorrow, is it?

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 30):
Also, LH (unlike VS and don't know about EY) gets a "fuel burn delta" (against the B77W) "rebate" (I'm using that term loosely as I don't know how the compensation is paid) from Airbus/EADS. I'm sure there are a multitude of other variables involved as well.

I'm going to have to play the "source?" card on that one, my friend.   

Leahy once suggested that Airbus could use that as a possible tactic. I believe there's ZERO evidence that it ever happened.   
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
LOWS
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:05 am

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 32):
The big order for LH and new airplanes is due September 2012. So we have to be patient.

Will that include OS/LX/SN and the regionals?

I would love to see the 788 or 9 for OS. I fly SZG-VIE-IAD frequently and in Y they are showing their age.

[Edited 2011-10-23 01:09:42]
 
wilco737
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:08 am

Quoting LOWS (Reply 35):
Will that include OS/LX/SN and the regionals?

Yes. 2012 will be a big year. The guy I was talking to (no FA, he was from higher position) said that we need to order many airplanes in 2012. Renew the short haul and the long haul fleet and adding airplanes to expand.
The evaluation for all this is running already. So LH is in talks with Boeing, Airbus, Embraer, Bombardier...
The most important part is the short haul fleet. The 737s are old and the oldest 320s need to be replaced as well. Same for the 744. 380 is already there to replace them somewhat. 748i will join next year. But it could mean more big jets order...

wilco737
  
 
LOWS
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:13 am

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 36):
The most important part is the short haul fleet. The 737s are old and the oldest 320s need to be replaced as well

And at VO they still have those awful looking F100/70s that wouldn't be missed.
 
kaitak
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:23 am

Quoting LOWS (Reply 37):
And at VO they still have those awful looking F100/70s that wouldn't be missed.

I wouldn't say they are bad looking, but they're not getting any younger. No doubt OS will benefit from LH's buying power.
 
SASMD82
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:36 am

So in 2020 the LH long haul fleet must look like this:
A380
B748
A351
A359
A333
Very nice I must admit!

Quoting kaitak (Reply 5):
I just don't see how the 787 fits into LH's plans.

To replace the A340-300 with Swiss, to replace the B767 and 777 with OS and to replace the A330-300 (which are relatively old) with Brussels Airways.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 30):
Practically every carrier which has compared the A346 against the B77W has purchased the B77W over the A346. The order book speaks volumes

The oil (and thus fuel) price has helped the 77W a lot!  
Quoting LOWS (Reply 37):
And at VO they still have those awful looking F100/70s that wouldn't be missed

Awful looking? They look gorgeous!! The only thing is: they are getting old.
 
LOWS
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:48 am

Quoting kaitak (Reply 38):
I wouldn't say they are bad looking, but they're not getting any younger.
Quoting SASMD82 (Reply 39):
Awful looking? They look gorgeous!! The only thing is: they are getting old.

Yes they are lovely on the outside, but the cabin (on these but also almost every other OS or VO ship) needs an update. That puke green is awful and the old „fuzzy“ seats are fine, but ugly ugly ugly. The new slimline OS and LH Recaro seats are fantastic though.
 
FlyboyOz
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:04 am

i suspect that they will order 100 aircraft in total. 15 - maybe B787-1000s. Boeing may build B787-1000 in the near future
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ZRH
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:27 am

Quoting columba (Reply 6):
Does not mean that the 787 has to be for LH, but for OS or LX ?

I think the 789 is too small for LX and its three class layout. They replaced the 332 with 333 for this reason. I assume that LX needs at least the size of a 359. I see LX to replace their 343 with a mix of 350-900 and 350-1000.
 
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frigatebird
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:30 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 23):

Quoting Stitch (Reply 10):
Quoting scbriml (Reply 1):
But, with 24 A340-600s in their fleet, I would have expected to see a higher number of A350-1000s.

A number of those A340-600s are relatively new-builds, are they not?

Delivery dates of LH's 24 A346s:

2003 - 4
2004 - 6
2006 - 4
2007 - 3
2008 - 4
2009 - 3

That's still very young, and with probably not too high resell value, it would make sense for LH to keep them for a while - as long as they make money, why get rid of them? Replacing may be more expensive (that's why KL decided to keep their MD11's!)

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 32):
Everything is still possible. LH is evaluating 350 or 787. And 320NEO or 737MAX or EMB... So all is possible.

But with LH already having the NEO on order, I can't see them ordering the 737MAX. CS300 has a good chance though, with GTF's already ordered for the NEO's.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 34):
Indeed they are, but it's not like LH could get -1000s tomorrow, is it?

Correct, probably not before 2018/2019. But by then, their A346's are 10-15 years old - still relatively young for LH standards.

Quoting SASMD82 (Reply 39):

Quoting kaitak (Reply 5):
I just don't see how the 787 fits into LH's plans.

To replace the A340-300 with Swiss, to replace the B767 and 777 with OS and to replace the A330-300 (which are relatively old) with Brussels Airways.

For OS and SN, the 787 (both -8 and -9) makes very good sense. The A358 is not so efficient, and the A359 probably too large.

Quoting ZRH (Reply 42):

Quoting columba (Reply 6):
Does not mean that the 787 has to be for LH, but for OS or LX ?

I think the 789 is too small for LX and its three class layout. They replaced the 332 with 333 for this reason. I assume that LX needs at least the size of a 359. I see LX to replace their 343 with a mix of 350-900 and 350-1000.

I agree. LX with A333 and A359 widebody fleet sounds like a perfect fit.
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wilco737
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:34 am

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 43):
But with LH already having the NEO on order, I can't see them ordering the 737MAX. CS300 has a good chance though, with GTF's already ordered for the NEO's.

Yes, that is true. I can only repeat what that guy said. And he didn't rule other manufacturer out. LH never wanted to be reliable on one manufacturer... And if they order 320NEOs only and the old 737s are gone, then it is only Airbus and a few 748i's... Never been the policy of LH.

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chiad
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:33 am

Quoting Carls (Thread starter):
85 planes looks like an small order for an airline like Lufthansa

What?
 

20 Airbus A351, 35 Airbus A359 and 30 Boeing 789 would be worth some $21 Billion at list prices.
Is there an order valued more than this ever?
 
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Stitch
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:39 am

Quoting Chiad (Reply 45):
Is there an order valued more than this ever?

The order EK placed at the 2007 Dubai Air Show for 70 A350s and 11 A380s was worth almost USD 35 billion.
 
wilco737
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:41 am

Quoting Chiad (Reply 45):
Quoting Stitch (Reply 46):

I am sure there have been orders which were more expensive. But $21 Billion is not particularly a small order, is it?

It has to be paid for. And think how many 388s and 748i's are still on order and will be delivered. Additionally the 320s and 330 etc etc. It all costs a lot of money which have to be earned first.

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B777LRF
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:03 pm

If anything, given that LH has NEO's with GTF on order, they are liable to order a Leap-X offering. And that brings the MAX nicely into play provided, that is, Boeing can make it as near as efficient as a GTF'd NEO it makes no difference.

Another option is, of course, to have one or more of the LH subsidiaries run a fleet of MAX aircraft. SN and OS springs to mind here, as they could conceivably become all Boeing operators with a mix of 787 and 737MAX, leaving LX as all Airbus with 350s and NEOs, and mother Lufty floating above it all as a mixed operator.

Had LH ordered the CS100/300, I'd put money on them ordering the NEO with Leap-X. All for the purpose of giving LH Technik a large pool of "own" engines on which to build the foundation of 3rd party MRO business.
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Stitch
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RE: Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?

Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:22 pm

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 47):
I am sure there have been orders which were more expensive. But $21 Billion is not particularly a small order, is it?

Not to my eyes and I imagine those who are suggesting it's a small order are looking at the number of planes more than the dollar value.

Though it says something about the "Middle East Effect" when an order for 85 firm widebody and narrowbody airframes is considered "small".