mattya9
Topic Author
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BA - J Class Seats Facing Opposite Way?

Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:26 pm

After checking out pictures of British Airways' new J product (which looks quite nice, I must say!) I noticed half the seats are facing the opposite way to create the most efficient layout. Is British Airways the only airline that has a set up like this? If not, what other airlines have adopted this type of layout in the J, or even F, cabins? Here is a picture for those of you who have not seen it yet...

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Briti...d=f2ea978162d071b3af0c515761893a19
"You can do anything once."
 
ozglobal
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RE: BA - J Class Seats Facing Opposite Way?

Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:30 pm

BA implemented this "New Club World" concept in about 2000 (ten years ago!). This is now the second generation in this same configuration. There would be a patent on the layout preventing others from copying it directly. However, UA now has a similar idea applied in their 2 fwd / 2 bkwd configuration in J. Don't know of others doing the backward facing seating right now.
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
JACK02116
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RE: BA - J Class Seats Facing Opposite Way?

Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:16 pm

UA is different in so far as it has alternating complete rows of forward and backward facing seats. Im not sure what is achieved here from a space utilisation perspective. On BA you get more width at the shoulders and less at the feet so having pairs of front/back facing makes sense. But on UA I have never understood what is achieved by having forward / backward alternating rows?
 
mogandoCI
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RE: BA - J Class Seats Facing Opposite Way?

Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:25 pm

UA's flat bed feels rather cramped when you try to sleep.... and my shadows aren't even that wide

the herringbone concept used by VS and AC and old CX is much wider at the shoulder level (can't speak for BA though)
 
United1
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RE: BA - J Class Seats Facing Opposite Way?

Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:31 pm

Quoting JACK02116 (Reply 2):
But on UA I have never understood what is achieved by having forward / backward alternating rows?

Alternating the rows gives you more room at the shoulders and less at the feet...the same as BAs seat. The aisles are not exactly straight and and the seats slant slightly inwards.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 3):
UA's flat bed feels rather cramped when you try to sleep.... and my shadows aren't even that wide

by the numbers UAs seat is slightly wider in bed mode then BAs is....
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tonystan
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RE: BA - J Class Seats Facing Opposite Way?

Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:43 pm

BAs NCW isnt that new, it laucnhed in 2006 with the previous incarnation coming into being in 2000 and still found on the 767 fleet and on Great British Air! LOL!
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
LY777
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RE: BA - J Class Seats Facing Opposite Way?

Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:07 pm

I wouldn't like to face opposite way in a plane (or in a train) BTW, I would feel bad...
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mattya9
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RE: BA - J Class Seats Facing Opposite Way?

Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:20 pm

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 1):

This came out 10 years ago?! Wow I've definitely been missing something then! I just never really remember seeing anything like it, at least on any airline from the US.

Quoting JACK02116 (Reply 2):

How long has UA been doing the alternating forward/backwards of entire rows? I would agree with JACK02116, it doesn't seem to make much sense or save any room having a layout like that.
"You can do anything once."
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: BA - J Class Seats Facing Opposite Way?

Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:29 pm

I did LHR-DFW on a BA J class seat facing the rear. Take off and landing made me dizzy.

I prefer facing the front.
It is what it is...
 
5MillionMiler
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RE: BA - J Class Seats Facing Opposite Way?

Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:36 pm

Flying facing backwards is actually quite nice. On the 744s upstairs you see the wing come into view after take-off. On the 777 I was looking out the window on BA when the huge GE90 suddenly rose up into view climbing out of Heathrow. Guess you could see that it you turned around in the normal cabin, but it is quite sight to watch in your general field of view.

Also, as the plane flies with the nose angled up, sleeping backwards on a flatbed elevates your head. I also find it better in turbulence as the orientation is different. Looking backwards seems better in the bumps, at least for me.
 
jayeshrulz
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RE: BA - J Class Seats Facing Opposite Way?

Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:52 pm

One thing i have noticed, that they have put the window seats in reverse. So if you want to fly window, fly reverse! 
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starguy
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RE: BA - J Class Seats Facing Opposite Way?

Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:03 pm

Quoting LY777 (Reply 6):
I wouldn't like to face opposite way in a plane (or in a train) BTW, I would feel bad...

Although I have found the BA Club seat comfortable and the fact that I am rear facing doesn't bother me, the biggest drawbacks of being rear facing on BA are:
no direct aisle access for the rear facing seats,
awkward face to face with your ying yang fellow passenger when electronic screen is down for ALL seats,
awkward during the service when your food has to be passed through the divide over the other passenger in the aisle seat,
and the biggest drawback is having to sleep side by side next to a total stranger in the two rear facing centre seats.There is no significant divider screen for any part of the body other than the head, resulting in contact during the night if you turn over during the night.

Not very good when you consider that CX, VS, SQ, NZ, and many more offer, all forward facing/at slight angle, direct aisle access, completely private business class seats, all at a similar price.
 
United1
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RE: BA - J Class Seats Facing Opposite Way?

Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:15 pm

Quoting mattya9 (Reply 7):
How long has UA been doing the alternating forward/backwards of entire rows? I would agree with JACK02116, it doesn't seem to make much sense or save any room having a layout like that.
UA launched the IPTE seats in 2007.

If UA did not alternate seats like that they would loose rows of seats...BA is doing the same thing with their configuration.

Take a look at the seat map I attached...its hard to explain in words but pretty simple to understand once you see it laid out. Both UA and BAs configurations are ingenious in how they save space.

http://multivu.prnewswire.com/mnr/un...d/28964/docs/28964-B747_400_OC.pdf

[Edited 2011-10-24 08:17:47]
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mattya9
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RE: BA - J Class Seats Facing Opposite Way?

Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:25 pm

Quoting United1 (Reply 12):

Ahhhh I see what you mean. Yes, that does make sense now. On another note, how come the 744's don't have an "I" row? My guess is because it looks like the number "1" too much? I could be way off on that one though.
"You can do anything once."
 
United1
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RE: BA - J Class Seats Facing Opposite Way?

Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:31 pm

Quoting mattya9 (Reply 13):
On another note, how come the 744's don't have an "I" row? My guess is because it looks like the number "1" too much? I could be way off on that one though.

That is exactly why...
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
markboston
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RE: BA - J Class Seats Facing Opposite Way?

Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:33 pm

Quoting starguy (Reply 11):
Not very good when you consider that CX, VS, SQ, NZ, and many more offer, all forward facing/at slight angle, direct aisle access, completely private business class seats, all at a similar price.

I much prefer BA's arrangment to the angle seats on CX, VS and NZ because you can look out the window. BA's arrangement also allows you to have a conversation with your traveling companion and if you don't know the person next to you just raise the privacy screen.
 
Longhornmaniac
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RE: BA - J Class Seats Facing Opposite Way?

Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:46 pm

I was really disappointed in the new Club World when I flew it LHR-CAI. It's one of those intermediate routes, but the service on board was really monotonous and not personal at all. The seat was average to below average when compared to its oneworld partners'. I'd actually rather have AA's "lie flat" over that.

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ardian
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RE: BA - J Class Seats Facing Opposite Way?

Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:12 pm

Quoting tonystan (Reply 5):
Great British Air! LOL!

Haha classic . Too bad they are using it as their F-class

[Edited 2011-10-24 09:13:47]
 
ozglobal
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RE: BA - J Class Seats Facing Opposite Way?

Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:39 pm

Quoting mattya9 (Reply 7):
Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 1):

This came out 10 years ago?! Wow I've definitely been missing something then! I just never really remember seeing anything like it, at least on any airline from the US.

V1 of this config came out 11 years ago. V2 was about 2007. You may have noticed that the US carriers lost 10 years in premium cabin product currency and have only recently started to invest and catch up: UA, US, AA, etc.

I actually prefer to be backward and have often dropped to bed mode and gone to sleep during the climb... Also much safer in an emergency (why do you think the FA's seats are backwards?).
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
mogandoCI
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RE: BA - J Class Seats Facing Opposite Way?

Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:44 pm

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 18):
You may have noticed that the US carriers lost 10 years in premium cabin product currency and have only recently started to invest and catch up: UA, US, AA, etc.

what exactly has AA invested lately ? their F/J in their 777 is rather dated
 
roseflyer
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RE: BA - J Class Seats Facing Opposite Way?

Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:52 pm

The united seat does not have a full width footwell. The footwell has 10 inches that overlap with the person facing the opposite direction so that although it is a fully flat 6ft 6in bed, pitch is only 74 inches.
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ozglobal
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RE: BA - J Class Seats Facing Opposite Way?

Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:24 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 19):
Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 18):
You may have noticed that the US carriers lost 10 years in premium cabin product currency and have only recently started to invest and catch up: UA, US, AA, etc.

what exactly has AA invested lately ? their F/J in their 777 is rather dated

They have invested about 3 years agos in an updated J which is a sort of angled-lie flat. Quite wierd in many people's view: claustrophobic, awkward for non-aile passengers; strange need to move seat forward and backward to join two half of table / tray; detachable IFE; poor sleep quality at angle...
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
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teme82
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RE: BA - J Class Seats Facing Opposite Way?

Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:45 pm

Quoting 5MillionMiler (Reply 9):
Flying facing backwards is actually quite nice. On the 744s upstairs you see the wing come into view after take-off.

That is the thing I'm looking for when flying LHR-JNB-LHR on Feb 2012  
As far as I know the seat 62A would be ideal.
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tcxdegsy
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RE: BA - J Class Seats Facing Opposite Way?

Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:53 pm

Quoting LY777 (Reply 6):
I wouldn't like to face opposite way in a plane (or in a train) BTW, I would feel bad...
Quoting 5MillionMiler (Reply 9):
I wouldn't like to face opposite way in a plane (or in a train) BTW, I would feel bad...

I much prefer the window seat facing backwards.. it's a little more private and secluded if you want peace & quiet.
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captainstefan
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RE: BA - J Class Seats Facing Opposite Way?

Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:43 pm

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 18):
(why do you think the FA's seats are backwards?).

What about in the back of the plane? I thought they generally faced toward the cabin so they could monitor the pax....

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 20):
The united seat does not have a full width footwell. The footwell has 10 inches that overlap with the person facing the opposite direction so that although it is a fully flat 6ft 6in bed, pitch is only 74 inches.

UA's J class seat has a flat length of 6'4", F class is 6'6".
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lhr380
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RE: BA - J Class Seats Facing Opposite Way?

Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:52 pm

Quoting starguy (Reply 11):
no direct aisle access for the rear facing seats,

Unless you get the seats that face the bulkhead. Then you have direct access.
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
cubastar
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RE: BA - J Class Seats Facing Opposite Way?

Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:27 pm

IMO, BA's earlier versions of this J class were not all that comfortable. I much preferred any other major airline's J class between the US and UK over BA's. I cannot ever recall any other airline having 8 abreast seating in their B777 business. To me, it was a very awkward arrangement and was very inconvenient to carry on a conversation with your traveling companion when seated in the outboard seats at the windows. I would certainly hope that the new versions have been improved and above all..........not 8 abreast in business class.
 
Sketty222
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RE: BA - J Class Seats Facing Opposite Way?

Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:29 pm

Quoting tonystan (Reply 5):
still found on the 767 fleet

Really, I thought they were the first to get the NGCW

Quoting 5MillionMiler (Reply 9):
Flying facing backwards is actually quite nice. On the 744s upstairs you see the wing come into view after take-off. On the 777 I was looking out the window on BA when the huge GE90 suddenly rose up into view climbing out of Heathrow

I travelled to and from MCO in a rear facing CW seat. You can't beat looking out of the window and everytime you see a huge GE90 staring right back at ya

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 16):
The seat was average to below average when compared to its oneworld partners'. I'd actually rather have AA's "lie flat" over that.

 
Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 18):
(why do you think the FA's seats are backwards?)

Is that not so they can face the cabin and look out for peoples safety i.e, the FA's at the back of any a/c face forwards to they can see what is going on in the cabin they are attending to?
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tonystan
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RE: BA - J Class Seats Facing Opposite Way?

Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:02 pm

Quoting cubastar (Reply 26):
IMO, BA's earlier versions of this J class were not all that comfortable. I much preferred any other major airline's J class between the US and UK over BA's. I cannot ever recall any other airline having 8 abreast seating in their B777 business. To me, it was a very awkward arrangement and was very inconvenient to carry on a conversation with your traveling companion when seated in the outboard seats at the windows. I would certainly hope that the new versions have been improved and above all..........not 8 abreast in business class.

The NCW is the exact same layout as the previous version. Im not sure I understand why you say it is difficult to converse with your companion considering you are basically facing them! I think its ideal and far better to be face to face but just my opinion.

Quoting Sketty222 (Reply 27):
Quoting tonystan (Reply 5):
still found on the 767 fleet

Really, I thought they were the first to get the NGCW

Nopes, they all still have the original club world. Perhaps you were getting confused with the fact that they were the first fleet to receive AVOD way back in the day. However a number of 767s are about to undergo a massive refurbishment which will see 777 style lockers and panelling and new WT/WTP seating with the Thales system AND a new CW seat however I believe hte CW on these aircraft will be the same as the ones found on the A318 LCY/JFK services!
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
VC10er
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RE: BA - J Class Seats Facing Opposite Way?

Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:56 pm

I like both the BA and UA J seat. And for me, take off is even more fun. When cruising along I don't think you can tell- and it is much, much safer. I do like the silver wall dividing the 2 pax facing each other on UA. You don't see the person facing you (except an elbow maybe) vs that awkward moment on BA as to who of 2 strangers are going to raise the screen first. And once up, the asile pax will never see the window. Also, I don't know who's seat is longer but UA has a nice long seat for someone 6" plus.
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HNLsurfer
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RE: BA - J Class Seats Facing Opposite Way?

Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:03 am

Quoting VC10er (Reply 29):
vs that awkward moment on BA as to who of 2 strangers are going to raise the screen first. And once up, the asile pax will never see the window.

That sucks, and its the same in Y class on occasion that the person by window will shut the shade and I never get to see out the window until 2 sec before touchdown.
 
gaystudpilot
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RE: BA - J Class Seats Facing Opposite Way?

Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:17 am

Quoting VC10er (Reply 29):
Also, I don't know who's seat is longer but UA has a nice long seat for someone 6" plus.

What exactly are you talking about here?

  
 
HNLsurfer
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RE: BA - J Class Seats Facing Opposite Way?

Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:20 am

Quoting gaystudpilot (Reply 31):

HAHA, good one...
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: BA - J Class Seats Facing Opposite Way?

Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:22 am

I'd prefer backwards facing seats. I heard they are safer (it does make sense since most impacts are from the front.)
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
Condor24
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RE: BA - J Class Seats Facing Opposite Way?

Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:58 am

I personally prefer the herringbone pattern. However the airlines should ensure the seats are roughly half A & D, and half G & K where they can only manage 3 per row. This will encourage 'even' aisle traffic.

The herringbone bone pattern is better with window seats (A&K) actually facing the window rather than on Virgin where one has to turn one's head more than 90 degrees as the A&K seats face into the cabin.

I think Cathay has the optimum design layout.

BA's product means window passengers face rear & have to climb over other passengers unless seated in the last row where access to the A & K seat is much easier, although there may be proximity to galley.

The herringbone layout allows much great shoulder space.
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Sevensixtyseven
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RE: BA - J Class Seats Facing Opposite Way?

Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:49 am

Quoting gaystudpilot (Reply 31):

The length of the seat won't help there...you're more looking for width, so when you're sleeping on your side in the seat...anyway. I wouldn't like a backwards-facing seat..too odd. I'd rather face forward, and see what's coming up. 

Also..I do like the herringbone configuration, as long as it's facing the window, like UA's F..I think.

[Edited 2011-10-24 19:50:53]
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gaystudpilot
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RE: BA - J Class Seats Facing Opposite Way?

Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:17 am

Quoting Sevensixtyseven (Reply 35):
Also..I do like the herringbone configuration, as long as it's facing the window, like UA's F..I think.

The new UA First Suite is angled towards the aisle. The previous First Suite was angled towards the windows.
 
Sevensixtyseven
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RE: BA - J Class Seats Facing Opposite Way?

Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:36 am

Quoting gaystudpilot (Reply 36):

Well...disappointed. Not flying UA F...unless I was given the ticket. xD
Will that ex-HP 752 get delayed...again?
 
Markhkg
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RE: BA - J Class Seats Facing Opposite Way?

Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:24 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 33):

I'd prefer backwards facing seats. I heard they are safer (it does make sense since most impacts are from the front.)

Of note, the brace position is different than forward facing passengers in these seats. Rear facing passengers should lean back as much as possible with their arms crossed over their chests.
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mattya9
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RE: BA - J Class Seats Facing Opposite Way?

Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:44 am

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 19):

I flew ORD-PVG-ORD on AA last October and thought their F and J products were both pretty good (flew J there and F back). Actually, I think I would prefer their J to F. Between the two the only upgrade you got in F was more personal space with the 1-2-1 layout compared to 2-3-2, and a lie-flat seat. Well, the lie flat was not as comfy (IMO), and you got the same food and entertainment options in J. All personal opinions of course but just my 2 cents.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 29):

I checked out some pictures of UA's new F and J seats and they look nice as well. Those IFE screens are HUGE!!!!
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