LAXintl
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TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:28 pm

Transport Workers Union is slated to petition NMB to call a representation election in which the union hopes to represent the 650 flight attendants at Virgin America.

As part of its drive to unionize Federal rules require 35% of eligible employees sign cards singifiyng they want elections.

News story:

http://goo.gl/iy39Y


Lets see if the upbeat quirky culture at VX will fend off these attempts as JetBlue has managed to do in recent years.

[Edited 2011-10-24 10:34:24]

[Edited 2011-10-24 12:51:30 by srbmod]
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ripcordd
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:26 pm

They should run far far away from TWU.....
 
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:29 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Transport Workers Union is slated to petition NMB to call a representation election in which the union hopes to represent the 650 flight attendants at Virgin America.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
kl911
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:37 pm

Unions? If those employees are smart they stay far, far away from unions. Unions are something from the past, tried and failed. I am happy that in my kind of work Unions do not exist.
 
Atlwest1
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:12 pm

Quoting kl911 (Reply 3):
Unions? If those employees are smart they stay far, far away from unions. Unions are something from the past, tried and failed. I am happy that in my kind of work Unions do not exist.

In this biz unions are definitely necessary to prevent employee misuse. Where the problem comes is that some unions have a bloated sense of reality especially during hard economic times such as now. There are examples of union infused workplaces with good cohesive relationships with management. Southwest is one of those places.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
 
OOer
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:42 pm

Good luck to the Virgin f/a's, the best thing they can do is vote in favor of the Transport Workers Union and have a say in their workplace. Virgin America is a San Francisco based airline, the average flight attendant earns about $30,000 per year.

Sound like a fair wage?
 
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:45 pm

Quoting ooer (Reply 5):
Virgin America is a San Francisco based airline, the average flight attendant earns about $30,000 per year.

Sound like a fair wage?

Define "fair".
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:42 pm

Quoting ooer (Reply 5):
Good luck to the Virgin f/a's, the best thing they can do is vote in favor of the Transport Workers Union and have a say in their workplace. Virgin America is a San Francisco based airline, the average flight attendant earns about $30,000 per year.

Sound like a fair wage?

Yeah, they should pay TWU $40 a week to make their jobs worse...that will surely help their wages...FAIL.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
Atlwest1
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:44 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 6):
Define "fair".

In laymans term basically, when your able to afford the price of food gas and ability to live with out any government assistance. 30k a year in the bay area is not quote un quote fair. Paying a georgia wage in a place that requires twice that isnt fair. Frankly Id love to see wages reflect where one is based. And percentage pay rate increases.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
 
WNCrew
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:45 pm

Quoting ripcordd (Reply 1):

They should run far far away from TWU.....
Quoting rduddji (Reply 7):
Yeah, they should pay TWU $40 a week to make their jobs worse...that will surely help their wages...FAIL.

All WN FA's are TWU represented and we have the best contract in the industry. We have the shortest duty-day and highest pay/productivity of any US carrier. For WN FA's TWU aint too shabby....
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
m11stephen
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:23 am

Every airline employee needs a union. In this fast paced, volatile, high profile industry so many things can happen and go wrong. We need to be protected. A union is like insurance for your job. You have car insurance, homeowners insure/renters insurance. Why wouldn't you have insurance for your job?
My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:31 am

I'd bet a dollar this is spearheaded by legacy labor trying to torpedo the competition.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:44 am

Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 8):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 6):
Define "fair".


In laymans term basically, when your able to afford the price of food gas and ability to live with out any government assistance.

So then grocery baggers who make minimum wage, or car wash attendants, etc - they are all paid unfairly in your estimation?
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
briguy1974
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:09 am

This is one of those discussions with very little gray area. You feel one way or the other. As one of those who is a believer that in this industry a union is not neccary and quite often detrimental. Unions were formed to protect workers in very hazardous jobs to protect them from unsafe employers. The airline industry is over regulated and employees are protected by OSHA and the DOT and other state agencies.

I would look at the response from WNCrew

All WN FA's are TWU represented and we have the best contract in the industry. We have the shortest duty-day and highest pay/productivity of any US carrier. For WN FA's TWU aint too shabby....

translation...we work the least for the most money = this means Southwest has to employ more FA's than other airlines and pay them more than anyone else. It is not a mystery to anyone on this site that Southwest cost continue to rise and continue to effect the bottom line. Beyond fuel cost Southwest biggest issue is its increasing labor cost.

The idea of unions, espeacially in the airline industry has more to do with I want more pay for less work and not what unions are really meant to be. I do not want to see another airline fail under the weight of union contracts that continue to drag on airlines bottom line.
 
flyibaby
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:12 am

Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 4):
In this biz unions are definitely necessary to prevent employee misuse.

That's quite a blanket statement! I work in the airline industry and certainly don't feel that way. I know plenty of others that don't feel that way.

Quoting ooer (Reply 5):
Good luck to the Virgin f/a's, the best thing they can do is vote in favor of the Transport Workers Union and have a say in their workplace. Virgin America is a San Francisco based airline, the average flight attendant earns about $30,000 per year.

Sound like a fair wage?

Um...no one told them to apply. If that was the wage that Virgin America was offering when they were hired, then I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but don't complain about it or cry to a union rep handing you a card to fill out that you are under paid.

Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 8):
In laymans term basically, when your able to afford the price of food gas and ability to live with out any government assistance. 30k a year in the bay area is not quote un quote fair. Paying a georgia wage in a place that requires twice that isnt fair. Frankly Id love to see wages reflect where one is based. And percentage pay rate increases.

Again..don't criticize the wage when Virgin America made it very clear what it was up front.

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 10):
Every airline employee needs a union. In this fast paced, volatile, high profile industry so many things can happen and go wrong. We need to be protected. A union is like insurance for your job. You have car insurance, homeowners insure/renters insurance. Why wouldn't you have insurance for your job?

Lucikly for airlines...when and if a contract is negotiated...everything becomes negotiable. Recently, some people I know up in Canada (ramp agents) all signed up for the union. When it came time to negotiate, the employees wound up making no more money, now have to pay for their own uniforms, don't get any additional benefits, but get to pay $ every paycheck to be represented. True story...this occured in YEG just this spring.

Long story short - employees don't need unions. Sure some employers arent the most genuine people out there, but based on your blanket statement above, why isn't EVERY corporation in America and Canada unionized? Or are just the airlines the only fast paced, volatile, high profile industry that has soooo many things happening that can go wrong?
 
JPuentes
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:56 pm

Unions are a way for lazy people to get paid the same as the hard working people. Individual people should be more productive and seek out raises.
At least that is my opinion

Can I get a list of things that Unions Actually do for their "Customers"
If you can't convince them, confuse them
 
MaverickM11
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:58 pm

Quoting ooer (Reply 5):
Virgin America is a San Francisco based airline, the average flight attendant earns about $30,000 per year.

And they're losing more money than any other carrier in the US--how is voting a union in going to improve that?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
WNCrew
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:05 pm

Quoting briguy1974 (Reply 13):
The airline industry is over regulated and employees are protected by OSHA and the DOT and other state agencies.

Just to clarify, FA's are NOT protected by OSHA.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Newark727
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:09 pm

Quoting briguy1974 (Reply 13):
The idea of unions, espeacially in the airline industry has more to do with I want more pay for less work and not what unions are really meant to be. I do not want to see another airline fail under the weight of union contracts that continue to drag on airlines bottom line.

Why on earth is what unions are "meant to be" in one poster's estimation important? They exist as they do right now, they provide employees with some manner of service (beneficial or not,) and it's up to VX employees to decide whether they want it. And if the airline's bottom line is so overwhelmingly important to you, where does that interest stop?

Furthermore, what exactly about the system we live in has changed so drastically that private sector unions were "needed" in the past but not today? It's not as if the Marxist revolution has taken place and the employer-employee relationship or profit motive is radically different.
 
jacobin777
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:19 pm

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 10):
Every airline employee needs a union. In this fast paced, volatile, high profile industry

That's almost an oxymoron IMHO. I dont' see unions "adjusting to the changes/realities of today" quick enough.
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ExL10Mktg
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:39 pm

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 17):
Just to clarify, FA's are NOT protected by OSHA.

AFIK, the Occupational Safety and Health Act, as a federal law, covers every industry and every worker in the US unless they are self-employed. Why would the airline industry and F/As be exempt? Did the TWU tell you that at election time....... I'm sure they wouldn't either just make stuff up or grossly exaggerate something just to get your vote, particularly as management is forbidden by Federal law from countering any argument they make while attempting to organize.
 
boilerla
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:15 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 16):

And they're losing more money than any other carrier in the US--how is voting a union in going to improve that?

Has nothing to do with unions. They still can't fly profitably; their CASM excluding fuel is pretty bad and has been creeping up even without unions. Yet they continue to take delivery of shiny new planes, spend enough money on marketing to buy a superbowl commercial, and enter the fiercest, most competitive cities without any business plan to make a profit. That sounds like the AA model of flying. And like AA they need to figure out why it costs them so much more than the legacies and WN, both who have unionized workforces.
 
cmf
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:17 pm

Quoting kl911 (Reply 3):
Unions? If those employees are smart they stay far, far away from unions. Unions are something from the past, tried and failed.

With good management there is no need for unions. Sadly the need for them seems to pretty much follow how much opposition there are to them.
Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.
 
as739x
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:27 pm

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 9):

WN is also have a proven airline that was making a profit year after year. VX is still getting it's feet wet. My wife is with VX and I am perfectly happy with her not being with a union.

I myself was with a union at my previous airline and all they did was screw me!
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MaverickM11
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:30 pm

Quoting boilerla (Reply 21):
They still can't fly profitably; their CASM excluding fuel is pretty bad and has been creeping up even without unions

Right, so how is a union going to improve anything, other than for VX' competitors?

Quoting cmf (Reply 22):
With good management there is no need for unions

Perhaps, but the very powerful incentive to unionize a workforce is always there, whether Lorenzo is running the show or Jesus Himself.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Atlwest1
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:42 pm

Yall are right im wrong my opinion doesn't matter.   However in reality as I said unions have a place IF they maintain there focus of providing a voice for members to management to air issues and complaints. TO often management creates edicts and rules from afar or with the help of some accounting firm with out seeing the detriment it causes to the operation. The union can provide a voice to force management to listen which inturn can help the bottom line. Though admittedly some, not all, lose that focus

Also WNcrew's statement is true and i think it wasn't worded quite correctly. WN pays there FA's those wages because A. They are some of the very reason they have been profitable for so many years and bring the pax back(which is the point!) 2. WN Fa's probably work harder and more grueling trips on average then most fa's do. SO yes they are paid more to work more and are maximized and optimized more. But I guess that fact is lost.

My wages comment wasnt exactly worded correctly. I feel basically there is a certain point when people arent paid enough to live and to exist. Yes yes everyone knows what wages will be when hired, but when cost of living outpaces pay increases, then yes it creates a problem called working to work rather then working to live. But what do I know just the opinion of a lowly fa and not fact.  
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
 
jetblast
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:53 pm

Wooh man, mention the word 'union' in this forum and people go ballistic. Interesting that one can tell who is in a union and who is not....
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cmf
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:18 pm

Quoting jetblast (Reply 26):
Interesting that one can tell who is in a union and who is not....

I think your actual success rate is lower than you think.
Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.
 
NWAESC
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:04 pm

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 17):
Just to clarify, FA's are NOT protected by OSHA.

^Worth repeating^

Quoting ExL10Mktg (Reply 20):
AFIK, the Occupational Safety and Health Act, as a federal law, covers every industry and every worker in the US unless they are self-employed. Why would the airline industry and F/As be exempt?

Workplace safety and oversight/enforcement for air crews falls to the FAA.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:28 pm

Quoting jetblast (Reply 26):
Wooh man, mention the word 'union' in this forum and people go ballistic. Interesting that one can tell who is in a union and who is not....

I think the problem is people are being too black/white. Pro-union guys have trouble denying that a lot of AA's problems are union, and anti-union guys can't really say that DL's pilot union is bad (my dad is generally anti-union but believes that union (he works for DL) does a good job.) It needs to be on a more case to case basis. In this case, and this is just my opinion, VX has enough problems now, why strain the company even more? As for the low wage... it's not like they were industry leaders and someone bad like Lorenzo came in and slashed their wages, these F/As knew what they were getting into...
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
anstar
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:47 pm

Quoting ooer (Reply 5):
irgin America is a San Francisco based airline, the average flight attendant earns about $30,000 per year.

Certainly more than BA or VS cabin crew earn here in the UK so I'd say it is fair given the higher cost of living in London.
 
contrails15
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:55 pm

Could be worse, the IAM could be knocking at the door. They tried twice with us and are in the process of going for a third time. I personally have enough being taking out of my paycheck. In my experience unions protect the lazy and bad apples. Just my opinion.
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luvfa
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:08 pm

Great for VX! Here at SWA we have a great contract and yes it is true that we have great pay and work rules! However, compare that to our productivity! For our short duty day, we work 80% of that time! No sitting around an airport which both we and the company lose out, ( Duty rig of .74 per hour insures that). Our ground time between flights is 20-30 min. so we are inflight the rest of the time, (company only makes $ while flying). We also have the fewest # of employees per plane! While our labor costs are high, non-labor costs are low! Most importantly, our union and management have a healthy, mutual respectful relationship. How else did we ratify a contract in 2009, (major recession) in a mere 11 months! How does that compare to contracts at other major airlines?
 
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lightsaber
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:43 pm

Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 4):
There are examples of union infused workplaces with good cohesive relationships with management. Southwest is one of those places.

I've read all the posts. Will the union cooporate as with WN? (Yes, that takes the company working with the union too...).

Quoting contrails15 (Reply 31):
In my experience unions protect the lazy and bad apples. Just my opinion.

Some of the best technicians I know were kicked out of UA due to low seniority. Is the TWA a union that is good at policing its own members? If not, that will kill the VX experience. I'm not sure how WN has done it... they must have refused to 'give' in certain employee discipline areas. If one isn't able to remove the bad apples... it ruins it for everyone.

I do not want to live in a world where unions couldn't organize... I just think that once they are voted in, it is too hard for the workers to disband or switch unions.

Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 25):
Yes yes everyone knows what wages will be when hired, but when cost of living outpaces pay increases, then yes it creates a problem called working to work rather then working to live. But what do I know just the opinion of a lowly fa and not fact.

There is the big difference between WN and VX. VX does not yet have the market 'mind-share' and profits to pay what WN does. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks is fair... A huge cost increase would put VX under.

Lightsaber
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N1120A
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:39 pm

Quoting briguy1974 (Reply 13):
translation...we work the least for the most money = this means Southwest has to employ more FA's than other airlines and pay them more than anyone else.

Actually, that is not really the translation. WN has the most productive workforce of any airline, in large part because of the good relationship between their unions and management
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
hp2us
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:17 am

Quoting ooer (Reply 5):


I was a FA at Vx, my salary was no where near 30k a year. Try 24K on the high side.
Giggity
 
m11stephen
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:42 am

Quoting hp2us (Reply 35):
I was a FA at Vx, my salary was no where near 30k a year. Try 24K on the high side.

Yeah that's what I was thinking. 30K sounded way too high. I think that VX F/As start out at $18 a flight hour. The average F/A will fly 1,000 hours a year (if they're lucky) so that comes out to $18,000 a year...
My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
 
OOer
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:35 am

Quoting ExL10Mktg (Reply 20):
Why would the airline industry and F/As be exempt? Did the TWU tell you that at election time.......

Because the FAA has authority over airlines, which is the F/A's place of work. So the FAA has jurisdiction over this, not OSHA.
 
PI767
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:39 am

I have a friend who is a flight attendant at American Eagle. She has researched the major airlines and will NOT apply at Virgin America becase of Virgin America's work rules and schedules.

I think THAT says something about Virgin America's pay, scheduling and quality of life rules.
"Piedmont. The Model of What a Good Airline Should Be."
 
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:45 am

Quoting luvfa (Reply 32):
Great for VX! Here at SWA we have a great contract and yes it is true that we have great pay and work rules! However, compare that to our productivity! For our short duty day, we work 80% of that time! No sitting around an airport which both we and the company lose out, ( Duty rig of .74 per hour insures that). Our ground time between flights is 20-30 min. so we are inflight the rest of the time, (company only makes $ while flying). We also have the fewest # of employees per plane! While our labor costs are high, non-labor costs are low! Most importantly, our union and management have a healthy, mutual respectful relationship. How else did we ratify a contract in 2009, (major recession) in a mere 11 months!

Jesus, how did you type with those pom-poms in your hand?  
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
LAXintl
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:02 am

I’ll let you guys in on a secret about majority of Virgin companies. Virtually none pay top dollars to employees, however they virtually always have people tripping over themselves to work there.

The groups overall cachet of being hip, young and fun place to be associated with has allowed most of the groups companies to avoid matching peers in dollar for dollar.
Also the general ethos of the group is they do not seek long term careers employees, but prefer a regular churning of staff ensuring a young and most often quite enthused work force.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
hp2us
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:49 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 40):

Exactly, and it was a well known fact at Vx ITM's were not supposed to stay longer than 5 years. I don't regret working there, I saw alot and was very proud of the service, but I knew from day 1 that it would not be something to stay with forever.

[Edited 2011-10-26 08:51:08]

[Edited 2011-10-26 08:51:58]
Giggity
 
TR1
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:07 pm

Quoting hp2us (Reply 41):
Exactly, and it was a well known fact at Vx ITM's were not supposed to stay longer than 5 years

What is an ITM at Virgin America? Did the company actively encourage people to leave as they approach five years of employment? Were any incentives offered?
 
hp2us
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:16 pm

Quoting TR1 (Reply 42):

Itm is an Inflight Team Member. They're are no incentives to leave after 5 years, they just felt your time was up. I never heard it personally but from many pilots and Itm's it was quoted that the company structure was not ment to keep Itm's for longer than 5 years. At the time I started the pay scale only went to 5 years, shortly before I left they raised it to 10 years, with a cap out somewhere near $29 an hour. As far as encouragement, the encouragement was they would figure out a way to get rid of you. In my 2 years there many a fellow colleagues got terminated for various reasons, some unfounded others it was needed. You are told on your first day and required to sign paper work that states you know you are an at will employee, and can be terminated for any reason at any time with little recourse. I left on my own merit to attend law school, but the bottom line with the unionization progress is they want fair and equitable work rules. They never stated once they wanted more pay.
Giggity
 
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:18 pm

Quoting hp2us (Reply 43):
the bottom line with the unionization progress is they want fair and equitable work rules

So what are unfair and inequitable about their current work rules? What do "fair and equitable" ones look like? Be specific.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:41 pm

Quoting hp2us (Reply 43):
bottom line with the unionization progress is they want fair and equitable work rules.

But don't they know what they are getting into when they look into getting hired? Like this example:

Quoting PI767 (Reply 38):
I have a friend who is a flight attendant at American Eagle. She has researched the major airlines and will NOT apply at Virgin America becase of Virgin America's work rules and schedules.

Better to research and look for a better company than to get hired, be instantly mad and want to unionize. Oh well, not my battle...
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
hp2us
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:16 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 45):

When people know nothing about an industry, other than what they read in articles and blogs, they tend to gravitate towards what the positives that are being pointed out are. A good majority of virgins Itm's are just out of college, or previous customer service jobs, and want to see the world. They do very little research on the industry as a whole, what it's really like to work in it, and have a general idea what to expect. They also have no idea how different the airlines are compared to every day 9-5's when it comes to pay, and working hours. They don't find this out until they are knee deep in training.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 44):

Virgin was notorious for bending work rules, changing them at a whim with no notice, and ruling by fear of retribution if you question it. They were also very good at preaching open door policies with management, but they would only ever listen to a coveted hand full. They promised so many things to people that were with the company from day 1, and a vast majority of those promises went unmet, or brushed aside. Sure, a new airline like Vx cannot predict the future, but when you tell employees we listen to you, but will not respond with yes or no answers to concerned employees, that can lead them searching for other ways to get the answers that are needed. I think that with the union effort they feel that for once management will not be able to change rules with no notice, not be able make them up as they go along, and upmost give them the job security they want.

And if you are ever on a virgin flight, ask an Itm about scheduling flexibility, you will no doubt get an ear full.

[Edited 2011-10-26 13:17:36]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88ZKn...hTIOA&feature=youtube_gdata_player

That may help shed some light on their movement.


[Edited 2011-10-26 13:37:52]
Giggity
 
skyguyB727
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:42 pm

Quoting rduddji (Reply 7):
Yeah, they should pay TWU $40 a week to make their jobs worse...that will surely help their wages...FAIL.

Who pays $160 a month ($40 x 4 weeks) in union dues?

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 45):
But don't they know what they are getting into when they look into getting hired?

Companies are not always honest during the hiring process. I once worked for an airline that showed me a list of wonderful benefits (health insurance, vacation, passes, etc.) that I would get even as a part time employee. I accepted the job under those terms. After I started the training, the other p/t employees and I were told that we did not get any of the benefits we were promised at the interview, because we were part time employees. The company used the ruse of offering generous benefits to attract applicants, because they knew they wouldn't get anyone if they said, "You'll get $5 an hour and nothing else." In a non-union environment, any terms of employment can change on a moment's notice.
 
commavia
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:59 pm

This would certainly impact their cost structure - and not in a good way.

Quoting ooer (Reply 5):
Virgin America is a San Francisco based airline, the average flight attendant earns about $30,000 per year.

Sound like a fair wage?
Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 8):
In laymans term basically, when your able to afford the price of food gas and ability to live with out any government assistance. 30k a year in the bay area is not quote un quote fair. Paying a georgia wage in a place that requires twice that isnt fair.
Quoting hp2us (Reply 35):
I was a FA at Vx, my salary was no where near 30k a year. Try 24K on the high side.
Quoting PI767 (Reply 38):
I have a friend who is a flight attendant at American Eagle. She has researched the major airlines and will NOT apply at Virgin America becase of Virgin America's work rules and schedules.

I think THAT says something about Virgin America's pay, scheduling and quality of life rules.
Quoting hp2us (Reply 41):
Exactly, and it was a well known fact at Vx ITM's were not supposed to stay longer than 5 years. I don't regret working there, I saw alot and was very proud of the service, but I knew from day 1 that it would not be something to stay with forever.
Quoting hp2us (Reply 46):
Virgin was notorious for bending work rules, changing them at a whim with no notice, and ruling by fear of retribution if you question it. They were also very good at preaching open door policies with management, but they would only ever listen to a coveted hand full. They promised so many things to people that were with the company from day 1, and a vast majority of those promises went unmet, or brushed aside.

What I find so remarkable about all of the above clearly negative stories about Virgin America as a workplace is that Virgin America must be supremely adept at finding exceptional actors as customer-facing employees - with things apparently so bad, you would never know it from the incredibly positive attitude I have experienced with Virgin America employees. I have no cause to believe or not believe any of the above one way or another as I myself have no way of knowing, but it's amazing that Virgin's people seem so motivated and positive.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: TWU Wants To Unionize At Virgin America

Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:35 am

Quoting skyguyB727 (Reply 47):
Companies are not always honest during the hiring process. I once worked for an airline that showed me a list of wonderful benefits (health insurance, vacation, passes, etc.) that I would get even as a part time employee. I accepted the job under those terms. After I started the training, the other p/t employees and I were told that we did not get any of the benefits we were promised at the interview, because we were part time employees. The company used the ruse of offering generous benefits to attract applicants, because they knew they wouldn't get anyone if they said, "You'll get $5 an hour and nothing else." In a non-union environment, any terms of employment can change on a moment's notice.

That's why you read the fine print. Surely they need to have all that in writing somewhere along the line!

I can see unionization if the airline is making money hand over foot and employees (not just some new-hires) are getting screwed over for a long while, but look at VX now. I doubt they have much room to give raises or shorter work days, is VX even pulling in a profit??
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)