tommy767
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Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:46 pm

AMS-IAD: 2 diversions in the last 2 weeks

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/C...5/history/20111027/1015Z/EHAM/KIAD

CDG-IAD: 4 diversions in the last 2 weeks (the other flight was OK)

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/COA131/history

We're not even into the winter months yet -- will UA/CO want to keep operating these flights out Dulles if they are subject to diversions? Has UA been getting complaints yet from the loyal IAD-ers? Diversions on TATL to EWR don't seems nearly as numerous, even during the winter.
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LAXintl
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:55 pm

The total diversion count is even higher since the 757 planes were assigned to the routes, and there is a second CDG flight (133) to consider also.

I don't care to get into the weeds of why/how at this stage since I don't think there is a single smoking gun.
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catiii
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:07 pm

out of curiosity, what's the flight scheduled for block time wise?
 
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STT757
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:21 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
I don't care to get into the weeds of why/how at this stage since I don't think there is a single smoking gun.

Could any of this be a pilot action?
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Transpac787
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:34 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 3):
Could any of this be a pilot action?

What do you mean?? Diverting for the hell of it, or trying to make a political statement??

Pilots won't just divert a plane unless there is a *very* good reason.
 
tommy767
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:44 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 3):

A 757 diverted flying TATL. It's either fuel or medical. That's all it could really be, but it's probably fuel.

Quoting catiii (Reply 2):
Reply 2, posted Wed Oct 26 2011 16:07:46 your local time (27 minutes 49 secs ago) and read 219 times:

out of curiosity, what's the flight scheduled for block time wise?

IAD-CDG: 7hr 25 min RETURN: 9hr 15min
IAD-AMS: 7hr 30 min RETURN: 9hr 10min
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
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STT757
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:52 pm

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 4):
What do you mean?? Diverting for the hell of it, or trying to make a political statement??

I mean job action, work slow-down, over abundance of caution etc..

The UA and CO pilots groups have been very active lately;

Occupy Wall Street

http://destructionist.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/610x.jpg?w=610&h=406
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Transpac787
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:55 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 6):
I mean job action,

Yeah, that'll fly when the company and chief pilot ask them WHY they diverted.  
 
catiii
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:06 am

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 5):
IAD-CDG: 7hr 25 min RETURN: 9hr 15min
IAD-AMS: 7hr 30 min RETURN: 9hr 10min

Thanks Tommy. Reason I ask is I'm wondering if the tech stop is built into the schedule if indeed it is a fuel/tech issue. From the SEP 30 through OCT 12 CDG-IAD (for example) was averaging 8h25min according to FlightAware. On OCT 17, it even did it in 7h11min. Could just be some bad luck.
 
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:29 am

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 7):

Surely you're not suggesting...
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usairways85
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:21 am

It may stay for as is for a bit. Isn't UA/CO doing a lot of reconfigs with the 764/772 and then the 762's slowly leaving. For the time being they may have to deal with these diversions and then once the reconfigs are complete and the 787's arrive the appropriate aircraft can be placed back on the route.
 
D L X
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:44 am

How could UA have a problem with sending 757s across the pond from IAD when they did it for all those years out of EWR? US similarly seems not to have any problems from PHL. IAD is not substantially further away.
 
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:39 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 11):

How could UA have a problem with sending 757s across the pond from IAD when they did it for all those years out of EWR? US similarly seems not to have any problems from PHL. IAD is not substantially further away.

Flight routing, head winds and the extra distance can all combined to put the flight under reserve minimums and force a tech stop.

Also, no pilot is going to do a diversion that isn't mandated due to fuel state. Such a unnecessary diversion will get the pilot fired most likely.
 
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:51 am

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 12):
Flight routing, head winds and the extra distance can all combined to put the flight under reserve minimums and force a tech stop.

Undoubtedly.

As mentioned before IADer's will have to endure the 'dreaded' 757 until more 787s come online and reconfigs finish.
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FlyHossD
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:28 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 3):
Could any of this be a pilot action?

Why not suggest this? After all, UA/CO did blame a staffing shortage this summer on the pilot group. Despite being warned months in advance of a pilot staffing shortfall, CO blamed the flight cancellations (over 100 in late July, IIRC) on a pilot sick out.

Time and time again, I wonder in amazement at how quickly employee relations have crumbled (deteriorated) under Smisek's watch. In my opinion, he wants to pick a fight with ALPA. Maybe he's hoping for a mistake on their part.
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texan
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:26 am

According to weather.com there were bouts of heavy rain/storms on all four of the days the CDG flight diverted and all three days the AMS flight diverted. If flow was restricted over the Northeast/Mid Atlantic and they were told to expect to hold, they could have diverted to pick up more fuel. The three AMS-IAD diversions occurred on the dates of three of the CDG-IAD diversions. Weather or flow control seems an obvious culprit here.

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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:05 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 11):
How could UA have a problem with sending 757s across the pond from IAD when they did it for all those years out of EWR? US similarly seems not to have any problems from PHL. IAD is not substantially further away.
Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 12):
Flight routing, head winds and the extra distance can all combined to put the flight under reserve minimums and force a tech stop.

Im guessing maybe to avoid the NYC airports the planes add a few miles so its about 250 +/- miles further. Its still further in the end and i dont want that plane running on fumes if theres delays to land in IAD do you? Im sure if they are making the stops its cause they need to and its safer. There is definitely a chance that those planes could have made it to JFK/EWR but are running low for the last part just barely not making it. I noticed more than one of the flights was deverted to Stewart SWF which is a NY area airport managed by the port authority but less crowded so that sounds definitely like fuel stop to me and it would have made JFK/EWR obviously. SWF is a good fuel stop uncrowded and get the plane back up for IAD with no delays waiting to take off again
 
G500
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:45 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 3):
Could any of this be a pilot action

Is not a pilot thing, its a Continental thing. They love pushing those 757s as much as they can
 
bobnwa
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:27 am

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 4):
Pilots won't just divert a plane unless there is a *very* good reason.

Contract time causes pilots to
1. Fly the contract
2. Write up excessive maintenance items
4. Use excessive sick time,when they are unhappy over something
5. Divert the flight
 
DashTrash
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:54 pm

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 18):
5. Divert the flight

Never heard of diverting as a side effect of contract negotiations. That one could find a pilot in hot water. Also, weather / fuel diversions are run through dispatch. If your dispatcher doesn't agree with your decision to divert, you're going to be doing the Carpet 1 Arrival. I had that happen on a legitimate divert when dispatch had an unrealistic idea.
 
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:30 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 6):
Occupy Wall Street

STT, I'm sorry this is plain nonsense.

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 13):
As mentioned before IADer's will have to endure the 'dreaded' 757 until more 787s come online and reconfigs finish.

I wonder if the diversions will get worse come winter time though? IAD can really only make a few TATL nonstop destinations across the pond before they will indefinitely crap out. IAD-AMS might be at the absolute limit for the 757

Quoting D L X (Reply 11):
How could UA have a problem with sending 757s across the pond from IAD when they did it for all those years out of EWR? US similarly seems not to have any problems from PHL. IAD is not substantially further away.

To be fair, I don't think IAD-Europe has ever been tried by a domestic carrier using a 757 so they are still "testing the waters" so to speak.
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jfk777
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:39 pm

Moving 757's to Dulles was a terrible idea. United should be flying UA flights and Continental should be flying CO flights. Atleast Newrak is used to the 757 to Europe. 757's should be moved to Guam & Air Mike's 767 moved to the mainland. All Guam flights are within range of 757 to Japan and Honolulu. IF that means some low yield vacation tarffic to Guam can't be sold, its sounds like lousy VRF traffic, low hanging fruit.
 
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:06 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 21):
United should be flying UA flights and Continental should be flying CO flights.

In another couple weeks there won't be that distinction, at least from an operating certificate perspective.

While I'm not sure what the "text book" range is on the 75... IAD isn't that much further than EWR... it must be right on the line when the winds don't cooperate.
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SonomaFlyer
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:09 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 21):
Moving 757's to Dulles was a terrible idea. United should be flying UA flights and Continental should be flying CO flights. Atleast Newrak is used to the 757 to Europe. 757's should be moved to Guam & Air Mike's 767 moved to the mainland. All Guam flights are within range of 757 to Japan and Honolulu. IF that means some low yield vacation tarffic to Guam can't be sold, its sounds like lousy VRF traffic, low hanging fruit.

If CO thought there was more money to be made by moving the Air Mike 767's to the US and some 757's to Guam, it would've done so. Obviously the yields out there are enough to justify the basing strategy. Problem was that CO simply didn't have the wide bodies to go around and they were making money on long thin routes with the TATL 757.

Also keep in mind CO should have 25 787's if the Boeing schedules were kept so that complicated their fleet plan immensely. IIRC United would've had similar numbers.
 
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STT757
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:12 pm

Here's my question though, checking flight aware PMCO flights to EWR from HAM and BCN (which are similar distances, if not further than IAD-AMS, IAD-CDG) are experiencing less diversions over the same period. Why?
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drerx7
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:12 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 21):
Moving 757's to Dulles was a terrible idea. United should be flying UA flights and Continental should be flying CO flights. Atleast Newrak is used to the 757 to Europe. 757's should be moved to Guam & Air Mike's 767 moved to the mainland. All Guam flights are within range of 757 to Japan and Honolulu. IF that means some low yield vacation tarffic to Guam can't be sold, its sounds like lousy VRF traffic, low hanging fruit.

Well, its certainly not the best idea to move the 757's to IAD...in a perfect world. Under the circumstances I would have done the same - EWR is higher yielding in this case and needs the capacity more than IAD. Again this, I suppose is gonna be the circumstances IAD/UA will have to deal with until 787s and 767 refurbs are complete. This would not necessarily have been an issue had 787s been delivered in a more timely fashion.

The 757s DO NOT NEED TO BE MOVED TO GUAM. I think that is a poorer idea than 757s to IAD. Its not lousy VFR or all low yield. CO/UA carries a lot of cargo and they have gov't contracts with the military at GUM. The Japan tourist traffic may be low yielding but that doesn't mean it isn't massively lucrative. The other issue is you will encounter the same range issues trying to get 757s to GUM efficiently through the system - GUM is a good 7hr or so flight from HNL. The 764s at GUM come from IAH and EWR via HNL. The whole thing is moot anyway since the 764 will be leaving GUM and replaced with UA 777 next month.
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tommy767
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:16 pm

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 23):
If CO thought there was more money to be made by moving the Air Mike 767's to the US and some 757's to Guam, it would've done so. Obviously the yields out there are enough to justify the basing strategy.

IIRC, aren't they refirbishing all 764 to the new configuration for European usage? There is already some shifting in fleet out in the Pacific, for instance HNL-GUM is now operated by a PMUA 777.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 21):

Moving 757's to Dulles was a terrible idea.

If they keep diverting like this, then absolutely. I can't see loyal UA'ers putting up with diverting 757s on a route like CDG-IAD when they could fly an AF A380 which is an unbelieveable product compared to an AVOD equipped 757.
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:21 pm

Quoting vgnatl747 (Reply 22):
While I'm not sure what the "text book" range is on the 75... IAD isn't that much further than EWR... it must be right on the line when the winds don't cooperate.

the whole idea of 757 to a premier destination like Paris is just wrong to begin with - how is it that AF could fill the 380 while UA has to shrink from 772 down to barely 752 ?

and it's not like UA is going after high-yield either - the 752 has extremely low number of premium seats
 
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STT757
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:26 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 26):

IIRC, aren't they refirbishing all 764 to the new configuration for European usage?

No, 12 are getting refurbished while the four that have been operating out of Guam will remain in Pacific configuration and are operating out of HNL to DEN, SFO, EWR etc..

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 20):
STT, I'm sorry this is plain nonsense.

Help me out then, why is AMS-IAD and CDG-IAD diverting and routes of equal length or longer to EWR are not?

STR-EWR is longer than either AMS-IAD or CDG-IAD, yet STR has not had a single diversion. Same with Berlin which had only one diversion during the same period as AMS-IAD and CDG-IAD, TXL-EWR is longer than AMS-IAD and CDG-IAD.

There are issues with the IAD 757s that are not effecting the EWR 757s, it's either something on this side of the Atlantic (airspace issues) or pilot work slowdown. There's no reason why the IAD flights would have more diversions than EWR 757s of longer lengths.
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drerx7
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:30 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 26):
I can't see loyal UA'ers putting up with diverting 757s on a route like CDG-IAD when they could fly an AF A380 which is an unbelieveable product compared to an AVOD equipped 757.

I can - when we are talking about Mileage Plus'ers and what airline the companies they work for pay for. There will be some folks defecting, but I think the amount of leakage will be very very small. Especially if the defect to Skyteam would entail getting tied in with DL.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
c680
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:41 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 28):
Help me out then, why is AMS-IAD and CDG-IAD diverting and routes of equal length or longer to EWR are not?

Assuming equal payloads, equal fuel and equal aircraft, I can only think of one reason: winds.

Winds over continental Europe could be calm, but very strong over the east coast of USA.

I've done short legs (IAD-BOS) with literally double the block time going from BOS to IAD compared to return. Remember, we measure fuel burn in Pounds Per Hour - an extra :30 can be enough to cause a diversion.
My happy place is FL470 - what's yours?
 
tommy767
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:45 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 28):
Help me out then, why is AMS-IAD and CDG-IAD diverting and routes of equal length or longer to EWR are not?

Um, I can help you out -- because the route is longer than EWR with likely crap weather on either end leading to flow control problem and fuel stops. I guarantee that it has nothing to do with picket lines or occupy wall street as you are suggesting.

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 29):

Many MP members with status might also have status with DL or Skyteam. Lower tier MP member with low status might consider the AF flight because they know the chance of an upgrade on a 757 is rather slim. I mean com'on a CO 757 versus an AF A380? There is no comparison.
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STT757
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:01 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 31):
I guarantee that it has nothing to do with picket lines or occupy wall street as you are suggesting.

The OWS comment was to show how active they are with their protesting. 750 UA and CO pilots went down there to protest.



Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 31):
I mean com'on a CO 757 versus an AF A380? There is no comparison.

That's one route, what else does Skyteam offer the DC area?

[Edited 2011-10-27 08:06:47]

[Edited 2011-10-27 08:07:09]
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
codc10
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:11 pm

I don't think it will last all that long. 14 more 767s will be entering the international fleet within a year, in addition to the 787s. You can bet that IAD-CDG/AMS will see these birds sooner or later.

It's a stopgap move to both facilitate aircraft reconfigurations and maximize profits on lucrative EWR routes like BRU and ZRH. It's becoming clear that RR-powered 752s are suboptimal for IAD-Europe operations.
 
drerx7
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:15 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 31):
I mean com'on a CO 757 versus an AF A380? There is no comparison.

No arguments there - I'm just saying that miles is more important to most...including myself who is as big of a.netter out there. I will forgo the whale for my miles.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 32):
That's one route, what else does Skyteam offer the DC area?

A very very very valid point.

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 33):
It's a stopgap move to both facilitate aircraft reconfigurations and maximize profits on lucrative EWR routes like BRU and ZRH. It's becoming clear that RR-powered 752s are suboptimal for IAD-Europe operations.

Absolutely
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tommy767
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:16 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 32):
The OWS comment was to show how active they are with their protesting. 750 UA and CO pilots went down there to protest.

But that has nothing to do as to why these aircrafts are diverting. OK, they have pilots protesting but how does that divert a 757, when it's clear the other option is because of low fuel.

I fail to see your point.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
roseflyer
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:25 pm

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 18):
Contract time causes pilots to
1. Fly the contract
2. Write up excessive maintenance items
4. Use excessive sick time,when they are unhappy over something
5. Divert the flight

No idea where you get the idea of divert the flight. Dispatch works fuel calculations and is involved in the decision to divert. If Europe - EWR flights are not diverting and Europe - IAD are, a dispatcher and the operations center will know. The chief pilot office is just down the hall form the operations center and will know if questionable diversions are taking place. Not only can it get a pilot fired, it can involve other actions and lead to even getting the pilot's priveleges yanked. The FAA does not take kindly to diversions.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 21):
757's should be moved to Guam & Air Mike's 767 moved to the mainland. All Guam flights are within range of 757 to Japan and Honolulu. IF that means some low yield vacation tarffic to Guam can't be sold, its sounds like lousy VRF traffic, low hanging fruit.

I have no idea where that idea comes from. IAD-AMS and IAD-CDG is in a busy corridor with other nonstop competition on top of countless other options for connections. CO has a monopoly on traffic from the US to Guam. By law, international carriers cannot compete with CO, so it is CO and DL via NRT. Lack of competition means higher yields even if the market is small.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 28):
Help me out then, why is AMS-IAD and CDG-IAD diverting and routes of equal length or longer to EWR are not?

Has anyone actually been checking? BCN-EWR and Germany-EWR have been seeing the same number of diversions as AMS-IAD and CDG-IAD. Diversions are also affecting other airlines.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
sulley
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:30 pm

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 33):
I don't think it will last all that long. 14 more 767s will be entering the international fleet within a year, in addition to the 787s. You can bet that IAD-CDG/AMS will see these birds sooner or later.

It's a stopgap move to both facilitate aircraft reconfigurations and maximize profits on lucrative EWR routes like BRU and ZRH. It's becoming clear that RR-powered 752s are suboptimal for IAD-Europe operations.

I too think that this is a stop-gap measure until the two class 763's are converted to international standards. IAD-CDG/AMS/FCO/DME/ACC/etc. are perfect two class routes.
In thrust we trust!
 
tommy767
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:38 pm

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 36):
Has anyone actually been checking? BCN-EWR and Germany-EWR have been seeing the same number of diversions as AMS-IAD and CDG-IAD. Diversions are also affecting other airlines.

Flightaware only goes back 2 weeks without subscription:

BCN-EWR: 1 diversion
TXL-EWR: 1 diversion
OSL-EWR: 1 diversion
MAD-EWR: 1 diversion

Not nearly as bad. I think that little extra bump in distance between EWR and IAD is what makes the route a bit much for the 757
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
washingtonian
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:39 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 28):
will remain in Pacific configuration

What is the Pacific configuration?

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 33):
You can bet that IAD-CDG/AMS will see these birds sooner or later.

Yup. Having 14 new internationally-configured 767s (plus 787s arriving next year!) will provide TREMENDOUS flexibility throughout the system. United has almost too many options of what to do...

Quoting Sulley (Reply 37):
IAD-CDG/AMS/FCO/DME/ACC/etc. are perfect two class routes.

Yup, have to agree. Although ditto for some of these routes out of EWR and ORD (AMS, FCO, CDG, etc).

Either way, I think it's inevitable that IAD-CDG & AMS will be back to widebody aircraft next year.

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 33):
It's becoming clear that RR-powered 752s are suboptimal for IAD-Europe operations.

I wonder what IAD-Europe routes would be ok. Dublin? Manchester?
 
tommy767
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:47 pm

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 39):
I wonder what IAD-Europe routes would be ok. Dublin? Manchester?

The 757 could easily make IAD to the British Isles. I'm starting to think that IAD-BCN/MAD will never happen on the 757 at this point as it would have range issues. It would have to be at least a 767.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
thegman
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:49 pm

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 39):
I wonder what IAD-Europe routes would be ok. Dublin? Manchester?

Likely. US ran CLT-DUB with 752 during the summer this year.
 
codc10
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:50 pm

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 39):

What is the Pacific configuration?

It's really the high density configuration, 20J/236Y. Will be interesting to see how they fit it out with E+.

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 39):
I wonder what IAD-Europe routes would be ok. Dublin? Manchester?

Probably. I expect to see some IAD-Europe expansion this spring, and DUB/MAN are probably candidates for new service.
 
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STT757
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:52 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 38):
Not nearly as bad. I think that little extra bump in distance between EWR and IAD is what makes the route a bit much for the 757

Again, AMS-IAD and CDG-IAD are shorter than (or at least the same distance) as those routes you just posted.

757 routes by distance:

TXL-EWR 3,983mi.
STR-EWR 3,933mi.
ARN-EWR 3,927mi.
AMS-IAD 3,865mi.
CDG-IAD 3,859mi.
BCN-EWR 3,834mi.
HAM-EWR 3,821mi.

None of the EWR routes that are longer than, or nearly equal to, the IAD routes are diverting as much.

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 39):
What is the Pacific configuration?

Higher density, less premium seating aircraft that were previously flown GUAM-NRT 2x daily, GUM-HNL and HNL-IAH. Now they are being replaced by UA two class 777s from Guam. The four remaining Pacific Configuration 764s are flying HNL-DEN, SFO, EWR.

Pacific configured 764s:

http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Con...ntal_Airlines_Boeing_767-400_H.php

International configured 764's:

http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Con...ntal_Airlines_Boeing_767-400_A.php

[Edited 2011-10-27 08:55:01]
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
AADC10
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:58 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 24):
Here's my question though, checking flight aware PMCO flights to EWR from HAM and BCN (which are similar distances, if not further than IAD-AMS, IAD-CDG) are experiencing less diversions over the same period. Why?

I have no data but it could be headwinds. The weather might also be worse at IAD than EWR on specific days and the pilots may not want to take a risk at the limit of the 757s range.
 
washingtonian
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:02 pm

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 42):
It's really the high density configuration, 20J/236Y. Will be interesting to see how they fit it out with E+.

And these are basic domestic J seats? Any AVOD?

Quoting STT757 (Reply 43):
Now they are being replaced by UA two class 777s from Guam. T

The 6 two-class 777s with domestic first?

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 42):
I expect to see some IAD-Europe expansion this spring, and DUB/MAN are probably candidates for new service.

Oh yeah? Interesting. What other cities might you guess?

I think they still need to sort out the IAD-MAD AerLingus thing. I wouldn't be surprised to see this back to mainline on a 764 or 2-class 763.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 43):
The four remaining Pacific Configuration 764s are flying HNL-DEN, SFO, EWR.

Interesting choice of routes. I guess United doesn't have any ideal solutions for Hawaii flying.
 
codc10
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:06 pm

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 45):
And these are basic domestic J seats? Any AVOD?

Recliner-type BusinessFirst seats with 55" pitch in a 2-1-2 configuration (4 rows). 4D is often reserved as a pilot rest seat on block times 8hr+.

No AVOD, looped Hi8 video system with 12-16 channels depending on class of service. Smallish screens.
 
tommy767
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:07 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 43):

They should just move all 764s to Atlantic configuration and keep PMUA's high density 777s in the pacific.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 43):
TXL-EWR 3,983mi.
STR-EWR 3,933mi.
ARN-EWR 3,927mi.
AMS-IAD 3,865mi.
CDG-IAD 3,859mi.
BCN-EWR 3,834mi.
HAM-EWR 3,821mi.

Loads? Headwinds? I'm willing to bet TXL-EWR isn't going to be as packed as CDG-IAD which operates 2x daily. And not every route is exactly these specified distances either. Each day they vary because of weather, ATC protols, winds, delays, etc. It seems flying that last part of the trip, from Northeast Canada down into New England is when the ATC problems and flow control start to occur.

As a sidenote, I don't think UA/CO operate ARN-EWR anymore. The route shows up as a daily SK A333.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
drerx7
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:12 pm

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 45):

Interesting choice of routes. I guess United doesn't have any ideal solutions for Hawaii flying.

I wouldn't necessarily say that.

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 45):
The 6 two-class 777s with domestic first?

Yep.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
codc10
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RE: Diversions On UA 757: CDG/AMS-IAD Will It Last?

Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:14 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 47):

As a sidenote, I don't think UA/CO operate ARN-EWR anymore. The route shows up as a daily SK A333

It's 4x-5x in the fall/winter.

Continental Flight: 69
Departure Date: Oct 28, 2011
Status: On Schedule

Departs:
Stockholm, Sweden (ARN - Arlanda)
Scheduled: 9:10 AM
Estimated: 9:10 AM
Gate: Not Assigned
Check-in: Main Terminal

Arrives:
New York/Newark, NJ (EWR - Liberty)
Scheduled: 11:55 AM
Estimated: 11:55 AM
Gate: Not Assigned
Bag Claim/Arrivals: Main Terminal

Aircraft: Boeing 757-200 aircraft #137