User avatar
robffm2
Topic Author
Posts: 340
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:47 am

LH Might Sell BMI & Jade, Buying Others

Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:10 am

According to aero.de Lufthansa's Christoph Franz might sell BMI and their stake in Jade if no turnaround perspective is feasible.

Also LH Systems might be sold. On the other Franz rules out the sale of LSG Sky Chefs.

Finally he says that other purchases are possible.

BMI-und-Jade-Cargo--trennen.html" target="_blank">http://www.aero.de/news-13780/Luftha...n-BMI-und-Jade-Cargo--trennen.html
 
LHRFlyer
Posts: 687
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:50 pm

RE: LH Might Sell BMI & Jade, Buying Others

Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:37 am

A 9 month loss of 154m Euros for bmi (compared to 90m Euros for last year) makes it clear that turnaround is not possible at bmi.

LH's operating profit would have been over 25% higher without bmi.

Please can we not have another thread of BD-LH-VS fantasy tie-up speculation. It isn't going to happen!
 
bennett123
Posts: 7426
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: LH Might Sell BMI & Jade, Buying Others

Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:41 am

I thought that there plan to sell has been known for some time.

Does this announcement add anything about BMI?.
 
User avatar
robffm2
Topic Author
Posts: 340
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:47 am

RE: LH Might Sell BMI & Jade, Buying Others

Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:00 am

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 2):
Does this announcement add anything about BMI?.

According to aero.de this was not really an announcement, but the pre-published text of a speech. I don't know when, where or for what occasion this speech is.

But today LH published also 9 months figures. The whole group generated a profit of 578 million Euros.

More to found here, including figures and comments on BMI:
http://investor-relations.lufthansa....gewinn-von-578-millionen-euro.html

 
User avatar
robffm2
Topic Author
Posts: 340
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:47 am

RE: LH Might Sell BMI & Jade, Buying Others

Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:03 am

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 1):
A 9 month loss of 154m Euros for bmi (compared to 90m Euros for last year) makes it clear that turnaround is not possible at bmi.

The situation at BMI is commented as below in the 9-months figures. Not making it any better, but more explainable:

Due to the company's strong presence in the Middle East and North Africa, business at bmi suffered particularly badly from the effects of the political turmoil in the region. The weak economy in its British home market also depressed the result, so that bmi reported an operating loss of EUR 154m for the first nine months.
 
commavia
Posts: 9651
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: LH Might Sell BMI & Jade, Buying Others

Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:23 am

I continue to believe that the best possible outcome for all stakeholders involved is for BA to pick up BMI's slots and use them to bolster the only real global airline hub the U.K. has, which is of course BA at Heathrow. That would be in the national economic and strategic interests of London, the Southeast, and all of the U.K.

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 1):
Please can we not have another thread of BD-LH-VS fantasy tie-up speculation. It isn't going to happen!

I agree that it is hard to imagine Virgin actually being able to put together some sort of a meaningful bid for BMI, although if they were able to get backing from one of the Mid East carriers (as was recently suggested), who knows. But, either way, I do not for a moment doubt Mr. Branson's ability to draw out the process as long as possible, negotiate in public, and complicate matters for BA and/or Lufthansa if he doesn't get what he wants.
 
CYatUK
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:21 am

RE: LH Might Sell BMI & Jade, Buying Others

Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:26 am

In this sense one could "hope" that the situation will improve from now on given that the turmoil in Middle East seems to be easing.
CY@Uk
 
airways45
Posts: 282
Joined: Wed May 10, 2000 1:26 am

RE: LH Might Sell BMI & Jade, Buying Others

Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:23 pm

I believe that Lufthansa haven't focused enough on trying to turn around BMI; A commuting CEO and more of an appetite to focus on Austrian / Swiss / Brussels Airlines perhaps? I mean, hadly anything radical has happened. E.g closure of bmibaby didn't happen, the network flies to places nobody wants to go etc. I know they've flown flights for LH family airlines (perhaps they needed to do more of this)?

The troubles at BMI in my view stem from the fact that the UK European market is very competitive with easyJet / Ryanair and others making it difficult for a UK based full service airline to compete. That's why BA has struggled with European ops, but, at least has profitable long haul to compensate (and can use European ops as feed).

Just some thoughts.

Airways45
 
slz396
Posts: 1883
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2001 7:01 am

RE: LH Might Sell BMI & Jade, Buying Others

Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:32 pm

Quoting airways45 (Reply 7):
I believe that Lufthansa haven't focused enough on trying to turn around BMI; A commuting CEO and more of an appetite to focus on Austrian / Swiss / Brussels Airlines perhaps?

It's because contrary to OS and SN, BD was not a love story; LH was FORCED to buy the airline and tried every trick it could think of to get from under the obligation, so you can hardly blame them for not being very keen on their British daughter.... they didn't have the intention to buy her, nor do they have a plan with her, other than to see if they could sex her up a bit to place her with somebody else asap.

Compare that to how LH stepped in to save OS from bankruptcy without real obligation to do so (although seeing a STAR partner with a hub so close to MUC and ZRH fall in enemy hands was probably a driving factor) and more so even, how LH went after SN even though that airline wasn't even in STAR back then (just as LX wasn't when it was bought by LH) and you can see just where LH's priorities are....

[Edited 2011-10-27 05:32:45]
 
PanHAM
Posts: 8531
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: LH Might Sell BMI & Jade, Buying Others

Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:51 pm

But some LH people will miss Donington Hall, I guess.  

BD does a lot of flying for LH these days, like FRA/BHX three times daily, and their service is real good. But at the end of the day money counts and if the bleed money they will be gone rather quickly.

LH has a lot of flights from their German hubs and focus cities to LHR and fees there into other star carriers like UA and AC and BD is not really a feeder for Lh flights. With the new slots at FRA direct services can be established and GLA as well as ABZ prove that.
powered by Eierlikör
 
jfk777
Posts: 5830
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: LH Might Sell BMI & Jade, Buying Others

Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:49 pm

Quoting airways45 (Reply 7):
The troubles at BMI in my view stem from the fact that the UK European market is very competitive with easyJet / Ryanair and others making it difficult for a UK based full service airline to compete. That's why BA has struggled with European ops, but, at least has profitable long haul to compensate (and can use European ops as feed).

BMI has its problems, it reminds me of Eastern, high costs and mostly short & medium haul. Why did BMI concentrate on such flights. WHY no LHR to JFK ? I know its well served by BA, VS, CO, AA and DL but BMI has LHR feed; VS has no feed at either end. BMI could have offered 2 or 3 daily flights instead of flying A330 to Sierra Leone, Moscow and Cairo. Saudi Arabia may be profitable for them but its a O & D route. Flying to Star hubs in the USA could also have worked, cordinated schedules with USAirways from PHL to LHR would have helped both or CLT to LHR since USairways flies CLT to LGW. Why was the Atlantuc seen as a "bad Idea" at BMI from LHR ? lack of slots were never its problem.
 
n9801f
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:29 am

RE: LH Might Sell BMI & Jade, Buying Others

Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:58 pm

BD has historically done well on routes with limited competition.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 10):
Why did BMI concentrate on such flights.

BD focused on short-haul routes within the UK because there was limited competition for BA. BD offered a quality, cheaper alternative.

However when easyJet and Ryanair grew quite dramatically in the mid-90's, this destroyed BD's historic niche.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 10):
WHY no LHR to JFK ?

BD would presumably struggle badly in such highly competitive routes.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 10):
Flying to Star hubs in the USA could also have worked,

Remember that the Star carriers themselves already offer a great deal of service on these routes. Plus BD's foray into a smaller, but limited-competition market, MAN-USA, was unprofitable, despite the support of Star hubs.
 
nclmedic
Posts: 169
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:25 pm

RE: LH Might Sell BMI & Jade, Buying Others

Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:26 pm

Very sad! BD really does feel like the unwanted adopted child!

Quoting commavia (Reply 5):
I continue to believe that the best possible outcome for all stakeholders involved is for BA to pick up BMI's slots and use them to bolster the only real global airline hub the U.K. has, which is of course BA at Heathrow. That would be in the national economic and strategic interests of London, the Southeast, and all of the U.K.

I'm with you on this one. This would obviously be wonderful for BA but I fear a real blow to competition within the UK, giving BA licence to rack up prices. I still feel that, perhaps in time, there will certainly be room for a full-service airline operating a decent hub somewhere other than blessed London, but BD's pitiful operation out of MAN shows that that that time is clearly not now.
 
skipness1E
Posts: 3370
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

RE: LH Might Sell BMI & Jade, Buying Others

Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:34 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 10):
Why was the Atlantuc seen as a "bad Idea" at BMI from LHR ? lack of slots were never its problem.

I think that's the view from a decade ago, if you actually look, BA and BD compete on very few routes nowadays.
 
commavia
Posts: 9651
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: LH Might Sell BMI & Jade, Buying Others

Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:37 pm

Quoting nclmedic (Reply 12):
This would obviously be wonderful for BA but I fear a real blow to competition within the UK, giving BA licence to rack up prices.

I actually disagree. I think the dynamics have fundamentally changed from where they were 20 or even 10 years ago. The ubiquitous presence of Ryanair and EasyJet in so many markets - both to/from the London metro and overflying London altogether - serves as substantial competitive discipline for BA. And for long-haul, the U.K. is among the best-served markets on earth - both London and the regions - relative to its size. Non-London U.K. still has plenty of capacity direct to North America, and heading East (primarily over Mid East hubs, which many Brits seem to find perfectly acceptable).

Quoting nclmedic (Reply 12):
I still feel that, perhaps in time, there will certainly be room for a full-service airline operating a decent hub somewhere other than blessed London, but BD's pitiful operation out of MAN shows that that that time is clearly not now.

Well, again, I think the U.K. has found its non-London hub alternatives: Dubai for international, and Amsterdam, Paris and to a lesser extent Frankfurt closer to home. Given the economic, demographic and geographic realities of the U.K. market, I think that's perfectly acceptable.
 
Semaex
Posts: 731
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:17 pm

RE: LH Might Sell BMI & Jade, Buying Others

Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:13 pm

I wonder why noone has yet commented on all the other subjects of the article. BMI is really just a tiny portion:

Lufthansa Italia is performing its last flight upcoming Saturday. Sad to see the venture go, but it's quite clear that the move was inevitable from a cash point of view.

The article also states that (and let me translate that loosely)
"the board is investigating to sell Lufthansa Systems, its internal IT handling company, and takes a looks at the profitability of its joint ventures, like Jade Cargo, in which Lufthansa Cargo has a stake.
LSG Sky Chefs, LH's catering daughter, is not a candidate for selling, Franz explicitly mentions.
[...] 'Other aquisitions are possible', Franz states. 'We are looking at the industry and consider some airline aquisitions'. However, nothing fixed is on the table so far."
// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
 
LH121GLA
Posts: 342
Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 5:42 pm

RE: LH Might Sell BMI & Jade, Buying Others

Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:22 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 9):

LH has a lot of flights from their German hubs and focus cities to LHR and fees there into other star carriers like UA and AC and BD is not really a feeder for Lh flights. With the new slots at FRA direct services can be established and GLA as well as ABZ prove that.

Only ABZ (x3 daily) and EDI (x1 daily) have LH from FRA. No GLA yet - or do you know something we don't?
 
skipness1E
Posts: 3370
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

RE: LH Might Sell BMI & Jade, Buying Others

Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:54 pm

Isn't EDI the thrice daily one?
 
LH121GLA
Posts: 342
Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 5:42 pm

RE: LH Might Sell BMI & Jade, Buying Others

Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:44 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 17):
Isn't EDI the thrice daily one?

No, EDI was 3 daily at one point. Reduced to 2 x daily during summer months and 1 x daily from this weekend. New route to ABZ starts this weekend with 3 x daily.
 
jfk777
Posts: 5830
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: LH Might Sell BMI & Jade, Buying Others

Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:39 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 14):
Non-London U.K. still has plenty of capacity direct to North America, and heading East (primarily over Mid East hubs, which many Brits seem to find perfectly acceptable).

UK people traveling East have wonderful options with Emirates, Qatar, LH, KLM, and AF. NON- LHR UK passengers Traveling west to America have what, Aer Lingus. Conitnental 757 to Newark are fine if New York is your destination but suck if beyond. No wonder BA owns the Atlantic.
 
David_itl
Posts: 5950
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: LH Might Sell BMI & Jade, Buying Others

Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:44 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 19):
NON- LHR UK passengers Traveling west to America have what, Aer Lingus.

From MAN:

AA: daily ORD + JFK (ORD 5 weeky in winter
DL: daily ATL + JFK (though JFK will only resume next summer(
US: daily PHL
CO: daily EWR (back to 2 daily next summer)
VS: 10 weekly MCO + 2 weekly LAS
 
Semaex
Posts: 731
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:17 pm

RE: LH Might Sell BMI & Jade, Buying Others

Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:03 pm

Man seriously, there is more than one dedicated thread on the BMI topic.

Could we possibly talk more about LSG, LH IT, Jade and other aquisitions? Just a humble suggestion...
// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
 
Qazar
Posts: 180
Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 4:18 am

RE: LH Might Sell BMI & Jade, Buying Others

Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:29 am

I agree with that statement... Enough about BMI....

Speaking about new acquisitions, my money's on TAP, Aegean, and possibly SAS...

 
 
PanHAM
Posts: 8531
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: LH Might Sell BMI & Jade, Buying Others

Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:20 am

Quoting LH121GLA (Reply 16):
No GLA yet - or do you know something we don't?

sorry, simple mistake, should have been LGW. Still, GLA should be on the map actually and may be with the new slots available this becomes reality oin the not so distant future.
powered by Eierlikör
 
LJ
Posts: 4103
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: LH Might Sell BMI & Jade, Buying Others

Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:43 am

Quoting Qazar (Reply 22):


Speaking about new acquisitions, my money's on TAP, Aegean, and possibly SAS...

LH still needs to buy the remainder part of SN
 
JoeCanuck
Posts: 3939
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:30 am

RE: LH Might Sell BMI & Jade, Buying Others

Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:50 am

Quoting commavia (Reply 5):
But, either way, I do not for a moment doubt Mr. Branson's ability to draw out the process as long as possible, negotiate in public, and complicate matters for BA and/or Lufthansa if he doesn't get what he wants.

I think sometimes it's forgotten that Virgin is 49% owned by Singapore so if it was a money issue, Branson wouldn't be alone footing the bill...and in the end, LH gets to choose the buyer.

What is best for BA probably won't figure into the formula.
What the...?
 
LH121GLA
Posts: 342
Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 5:42 pm

RE: LH Might Sell BMI & Jade, Buying Others

Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:53 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 23):
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 23):
orry, simple mistake, should have been LGW. Still, GLA should be on the map actually and may be with the new slots available this becomes reality oin the not so distant future.

I hope this becomes reality!
 
LOWS
Posts: 1194
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:37 am

RE: LH Might Sell BMI & Jade, Buying Others

Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:20 pm

Quoting Qazar (Reply 22):
possibly SAS

I can imagine that throwing up some issues in Brussels. Maybe a stake?

Quoting Qazar (Reply 22):
TAP,

  
A little German medicine is just what the Doctor ordered...
 
Qazar
Posts: 180
Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 4:18 am

RE: LH Might Sell BMI & Jade, Buying Others

Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:35 am

Quoting LJ (Reply 24):
LH still needs to buy the remainder part of SN

Yeah but the airline has been integrated over the past 3 years into the Lufthansa culture, so it is only a question of just exercising their option.... it's just monetary at this point with regards to SN...

The others however that I mentioned (SAS, TAP and Aegean) would be a question of monetary investment and culture integration...
 
Someone83
Posts: 2901
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

RE: LH Might Sell BMI & Jade, Buying Others

Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:44 am

Quoting Qazar (Reply 22):
and possibly SAS...
Quoting lows (Reply 27):
I can imagine that throwing up some issues in Brussels

Not necessarily. Remember the only routes that LH and SK directly overlaps i.e. Scandinavia-Germany they already have a full joint venture, although they probably at least must give up som slots a few places

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: airtechy, Amwest2United, AsiaTravel, AST1Driver, AvSafety46, Baidu [Spider], frequentpete, Google Adsense [Bot], ikolkyo, jetmatt777, kaitak, msycajun, mtnwest1979, transit, werdywerd and 194 guests