freakyrat
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Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:44 pm

Last weekend I flew on a Southwest flight from DAL-AUS. The flight attendants made the usual announcements. While we were taxiing for takeoff, the flight attendant made an announcement for persons to make sure their cellphones were in the off position as they detected one cellphone in use. My question is, How did they know a cellphone was in use as they were sitting down in their jumpseats?
 
MGASJO
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:50 pm

Tricky line to make you double check! "Did I turn it off?!"
There is no such thing a cell phone detector on board
C208B
 
sw733
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:53 pm

Quoting freakyrat (Thread starter):
How did they know a cellphone was in use as they were sitting down in their jumpseats?

Easy answer - they didn't. Just playing mind games.
 
packcheer
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:55 pm

They saw someone using it from their seat and reminded everyone.
Things that fly, Girls and Planes...
 
DFWHeavy
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:57 pm

Cell phone signals and the like don't do one thing to the airplane. I wish they would just quit lying. We all knew that if it were of any concern, they wouldn't even let them past security... I mean come on, you can't even bring a drink on from pre-security..
Christopher W Slovacek
 
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ADent
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:28 pm

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 4):
Cell phone signals and the like don't do one thing to the airplane. I wish they would just quit lying. We all knew that if it were of any concern, they wouldn't even let them past security... I mean come on, you can't even bring a drink on from pre-security..

Do a search.

Here is a first hand report of cell phone use interfering with aircraft: For God's Sake, Switch Off Your Damn Cell Phones.. (by Pilotaydin Jan 11 2007 in Civil Aviation)

Here is a second hand report (well 2 actually): WN Pax Arrested - Refused To Hang Up (by Utapao May 12 2008 in Civil Aviation)
 
freakyrat
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:33 pm

I was sitting in a window seat in front of there wing and didn't see anyone using a phone from where I sat. Apparently they did know that someone had a phone on as I think they received a call from the cockpit on their phone prior to making the announcement.
 
bonusonus
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:58 pm

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 4):
Cell phone signals and the like don't do one thing to the airplane. I wish they would just quit lying. We all knew that if it were of any concern, they wouldn't even let them past security... I mean come on, you can't even bring a drink on from pre-security..

You are definitely right about this one. If cell phones (or portable electronics for that matter) posed any danger to an aircraft they would have to be off and in checked luggage. Maybe for cell phones they could be confiscated at the gate and returned afterward.

However, the FAA doesn't allow cell phone use on airplanes for two main reasons (even though they say the reason is safety, this is more of a tangential explanation). The first, and I believe the most important one is that cell phones do work on airliners, but they mess up the ground-based cell networks. With each tower having to "hand-off" the signal to another one every 10-15 seconds, it really overloads the networks. Secondly, and here is where safety is factored in, I believe the FAA and the airlines are trying to prevent conflicts in flight stemming from people talking disruptively on cell phones.
 
tozairport
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:10 pm

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 4):
Cell phone signals and the like don't do one thing to the airplane. I wish they would just quit lying. We all knew that if it were of any concern, they wouldn't even let them past security... I mean come on, you can't even bring a drink on from pre-security..

Cell phones can cause communications interference, I have seen this in person. Of course, the phone was in the cockpit at the time and very close to the transmitter. There have been other instances where the phone has interfered with navigation signals. I wish you would stop talking and start listening. We aren't "lying". As far as other "non-transmitting" electronics go, they have no effect on aircraft systems. However, the prospect of hundreds of extra flying projectiles in the event of an accident require their stowage, FOR YOUR SAFETY. Your welcome.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
 
wnflyguy
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:23 pm

It's a saftey issue in the event the flight crew needs to evacuate aircraft we need ALL the passangers to listen to the flight crews evacuation comands and not who ever is on the phone with you. It's all about saving lives. The last thing someone wants on a plane if the plane catches on fire the crew starts yelling at every one to evacuate to have some one on there celephone sitting there not paying attion and slowing up every one from getting off the plane quick as possible. enjoy wnfg 
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
mandala499
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:29 pm

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 4):
Cell phone signals and the like don't do one thing to the airplane. I wish they would just quit lying.

Lying? I'm sorry, I work with companies who want to put on cellular phone service onboard the aircraft whilst IN-FLIGHT!
These companies ARE concerned about cellphone interference. They know it is not a lie!
Non-cellular frequency emissions have caused problems with certain equipments (wifi on Honeywell Phase 3 Cockpit Display Units)...

The industry no longer works by putting a blanket ban, as the benefits of connectivity is now being recognized. BUT, that doesn't mean no one cares about interference.

Quoting MGASJO (Reply 1):
Tricky line to make you double check! "Did I turn it off?!"
There is no such thing a cell phone detector on board

Actually, you can use pico-cells, which act as low-power BTS... they can be programmed to see what phone is latching on to them... But, on the ground, it is useless, as the phones are more likely to latch on to ground based BTS... and a dedicated RF spectral scanner is errr.... overdoing it... However, hearing a cellphone buzz on one's radiocomms earphone is enough of a sign that there is a phone on board that's on...   

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
bennett123
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:32 pm

I did have a strange experience a few years ago, that perhaps someone can explain.

I switched off my phone, (screen went blank) and put it in my pocket.

As we approached Malta, the phone switched back on, and started ringing.

When I got it out, it had a text message from Virgin which basicly said welcome to Malta.

Needless to say, I rapidly switched it off again.

How can this happen?.

Regarding useage in flight, IMO anyone reading Pilotaydin's thread has to be clear.

Either this is proof cell phones do affect avionics or alternatively their is strong evidence suggesting that they do.

Either way, just switch it off. No call is that important.

Hopefully in the future interferance will not be an issue.
 
DFWHeavy
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:36 pm

If it caused significant issue, planes would be falling out of the sky. I, like many others, leave my phone on most flights the whole time. We know this is not the case.

I'm not saying it will never cause any type of interference...but it isn't a safety concern. Our big brother protector (the useless government) would put a big stop to phone being in the cabin of planes if it was a big deal.
Christopher W Slovacek
 
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vhtje
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:06 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 11):
As we approached Malta, the phone switched back on, and started ringing.

When I got it out, it had a text message from Virgin which basicly said welcome to Malta.

Needless to say, I rapidly switched it off again.

How can this happen?.

Is it a BlackBerry? Mine does this a lot, it annoys me when I arrive at my destination and grab my phone to find that it is already switched on. It happened just this week flying from LHR to ORD - so that when I arrived in ORD the stupid thing was flat, because it had switched itself on then spent the last 8 hours over the Atlantic draining its battery looking for a signal.

I have two BlackBerrys and they both do this. I try to remember to turn off the wireless signal before powering down the phone but as I am usually concentrating simultaneously on 4,589 things during the boarding process, it is easy to forget to do it.
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
26point2
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:14 pm

Quoting ADent (Reply 5):
Here is a first hand report of cell phone use interfering with aircraft: For God's Sake, Switch Off Your Damn Cell Phones.. (by Pilotaydin Jan 11 2007 in Civil Aviation)

I don't believe this story. Not as it relates to cell phone interference anyway. Not a skeptic by nature but if this were true the industry would have heard about it and something would have been done. I'm in the aviation industry and I've never heard this story before.
 
Kaiarahi
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:14 pm

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 12):
If it caused significant issue, planes would be falling out of the sky. I, like many others, leave my phone on most flights the whole time.

If you were sitting beside me, I'd grab it and stomp on it.

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 12):
I'm not saying it will never cause any type of interference...but it isn't a safety concern.

Engineers and aircraft safety specialists (see Mandala499 above) say it can be. What are your relevant qualifications?

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 12):
Our big brother protector (the useless government) would put a big stop to phone being in the cabin of planes if it was a big deal.

They already have a rule saying they must be off during flight. If people like you keep on breaking the rule, guess what - they may have to resort to banning phones in the cabin.
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
mandala499
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:16 pm

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 12):
If it caused significant issue, planes would be falling out of the sky. I, like many others, leave my phone on most flights the whole time. We know this is not the case.

Hmmm... I think both you (the one who don't care about switching your phone off) and those who are totally anti-cellphones onboard, should read this: http://bit.ly/rsZh31

It is sad that both sides of the fence blow their arguments out of proportion. That blog piece should be a nice balanced piece which the "extremists" on both side would hate, or get bored by!

DFWHeavy, as a risk analyst, I hope you analyze your risk (both legal and safety) thoroughly before you decide to leave your cellphone on whilst flying next time...

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
bennett123
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:24 pm

vhtje

No it was not a Blackberry.Just an old cheap mobile.

I recall that it did not have a cover, you could lock the keys, (which stopped outgoing calls) or power down which stopped incoming calls, (however the key pad was not locked).

I now have a mobile with a cover, and a Blackberry.
 
Rdh3e
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:33 pm

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 16):
Hmmm... I think both you (the one who don't care about switching your phone off) and those who are totally anti-cellphones onboard, should read this: http://bit.ly/rsZh31

That article was pretty much worthless. It talks about altitudes etc which is all fine and dandy. But then it brings this gem.

"It was revealed then (early April 2011, a mere few days before I took that Emirates flight), that over 5.5 million different Emirates customers had used the AeroMobile onboard cellular service. Not one of their flights, had to go through an interference incident (well, not that we hear of anyways)"

You honestly think that 5.5M people ALL turned their phones off as instructed?

It also says:

"Sure, a lot of the electromagnetic interference from mobile phones or smart gadgets have been deemed "unrepeatable in laboratory conditions hence unable to be confirmed or dismissed as dangerous", and that everyone has been siding on caution. But, with all these new development"

So it is stating a FACT that all experiments on the subject have stated that Cell phones have NO effect on the airplane, but then continues to say "well, it does".

I know it's not scientific by any means but MythBusters did do a show on this where they boosted a cell signal something like 10,000 times and were unable to effect the nav equipment on the plane they were testing.
 
Kaiarahi
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:57 pm

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 18):
over 5.5 million different Emirates customers had used the AeroMobile onboard cellular service.

You do realize that this is a service specifically engineered for onboard use, and not your ordinary cellphone?

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 18):
unable to be confirmed or dismissed as dangerous

does not mean

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 18):
Cell phones have NO effect on the airplane
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
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longhauler
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:02 pm

I swear, it is like dealing with Two Year Olds.

The only reason these children don't want to shut their phones off, is because someone told them too. If airlines made announcements that they MUST leave their phones on, they would be secretly shutting them off, then bragging to their other pre-pubescent buddies about it!

When I walk into a hospital and see signs asking that shut my cell phone off, I do it. I don't run to the Internet looking for proof that possibly, maybe when the sun is in the right position ... it has no effect. I just do it. Who cares? I sure as hell don't.

When walking through Customs and Immigration .. same thing, signs indicating that cell phones should be off. Again, why argue, why bother? It's not like it has any real effect on my life, or the short amount of time that I can't (gasp) contact associates to transfer information that no one wants any way.

Maybe it's an age thing. All a part of growing up.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
einsteinboricua
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:15 pm

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 4):
Cell phone signals and the like don't do one thing to the airplane. I wish they would just quit lying. We all knew that if it were of any concern, they wouldn't even let them past security... I mean come on, you can't even bring a drink on from pre-security..

Having taken a communications course (the one that analyzes signals and noise mind you), I've been meaning to speak with a professor and actually do some first hand research on this. I find it a bit...odd...that we have never had reports (or accidents) caused by loss of communications due to interference by cellphones. Even odder is having wi-fi enabled aircraft where wi-fi is permitted yet in non-wi-fi aircraft they ask that you keep it off (not that I'd have wi-fi on when I know there's no wi-fi).

About a year ago I flew on a transcon. I remember switching off my cellphone. I think about halfway into the flight I noticed that my pocket was glowing. My cellphone had turned on, but it had no service...I turned it off, only ton find when I landed that it was on again...nothing happened. So I have to question whether the claim is true or not.

There's a little keyword here, as said in nearly all safety demonstrations:
"...these devices MAY interfere with..." 'May' is a keyword.

[Edited 2011-10-27 12:16:48]
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
Rdh3e
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:17 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 19):
You do realize that this is a service specifically engineered for onboard use, and not your ordinary cellphone?

You're missing the point I was making. The article says that 5.5M people used that service. And that IF phones were left on near the ground they would disconnect from that system and reconnect at full strength to the regular cell network. Therefore, I said, "You honestly think that 5.5M people ALL turned their phones off as instructed?" I'm implying that there is an increased likelihood that there would be cellphones "On" while those planes are on descent whether due to forgetfulness or laziness.

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 19):
does not mean

The "confirm or deny" is just a CYA statement. The other part of that statement that you conveniently left out is that there is ZERO scientific evidence that cell phones have any affect on airliners.
 
Akiestar
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:22 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 20):

When walking through Customs and Immigration .. same thing, signs indicating that cell phones should be off. Again, why argue, why bother? It's not like it has any real effect on my life, or the short amount of time that I can't (gasp) contact associates to transfer information that no one wants any way.

In fairness, I don't get why one should turn off their mobile phone while in the immigration queue. It's not like keeping a mobile phone on would pose a threat to an immigration officer, nor would cause undue interference.   

However, staying on-topic, it is also amusing how people don't turn off their mobile phones while taxiing, and how they still use their phones regardless. I remember there was a person beside me on a flight to SIN who was eagerly awaiting for some text message. I kept my mouth shut about it, but he didn't turn his phone off until before takeoff.

Sometimes though, airlines also take it a little too seriously. PR for example bans the operation of mobile phones even in flight mode. How can a device which does not emit cellular signals be harmful?   
 
B777LRF
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:34 pm

Ever heard the "dadada dadada" on your phone? That's interference, and interference from mobile phones can have the same effect on aircraft radios. So if the crew say they know a phone is on, chances are the pilots were subjected to the tell-tale interference.

But I don't really understand how anybody can have any problems switching their phones off from the time the doors close until they open again. It really can't be any simpler, and trust me - you're really not that important your phone call can't wait those 5, 10 or 15 minutes it takes from landing until you reach a gate.
From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
 
Kaiarahi
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:48 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 20):
I swear, it is like dealing with Two Year Olds.

Reminds me of that famous line:

"When I was 20, I knew my father was stupid. I was really amazed how much he'd learned by the time I turned 40."
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
mandala499
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:21 pm

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 18):
It also says

I think you're the one missing the point. Why does Emirates ask passengers to still switch the phone off when below 10,000ft when they can use it in cruise?

If companies who provide onboard cellular service are cautious on interference at low altitude, why should you take more risk than them?

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 18):
I know it's not scientific by any means but MythBusters did do a show on this where they boosted a cell signal something like 10,000 times and were unable to effect the nav equipment on the plane they were testing.

Again, Mythbusters, is Mythbuster. If Mythbuster is correct, then why, on airplanes equipped with onboard cellular service, are we still required to switch out phones off below 10,000ft?
I'm sure companies like Aeromobile and OnAir knows the risks and mitigation better than Mythbusters.

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 18):
You honestly think that 5.5M people ALL turned their phones off as instructed?

No... but what if everyone did not switch their phones off?

1 - 2% of phones on board not switched off probably wouldn't put the aircraft at significant risk... but what about 50%? or 100%?

Now phones in standby, aren't really emitting a lot of RF energy... but once your phone needs to do more... it's a different story.

Now 1 - 2% of phones talking to ground BTS stations (I've done that myself in the past) probably wouldn't affect the airplane significantly... but again, what about 10%? 20%? 50%? 100% ?

Anyways, feel free to try and go into a flight deck with your phone's WiFi on and the aircraft fitted with Honeywell Phase 3 Display Units... I'm sure the crew would be "very happy" to welcome you for your visit whilst on the ground!!!   

Anyways, in a lot of countries it is a legal requirement for pasengers to obey the crew instructions, in particular the pilot in command.

14 CFR § 91.3(a) says:

The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft.

Anyways, I wonder what happened to that guy that was arrested post flight, after refusing to switch his phone off as the flight (WN) was landing in El Paso in early september this year?

In the end, so what if there can be no interference? Would you obey to switching your phone off or not be on your phone because of:

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 9):
It's a saftey issue in the event the flight crew needs to evacuate aircraft we need ALL the passangers to listen to the flight crews evacuation comands and not who ever is on the phone with you. It's all about saving lives. The last thing someone wants on a plane if the plane catches on fire the crew starts yelling at every one to evacuate to have some one on there celephone sitting there not paying attion and slowing up every one from getting off the plane quick as possible.

---

Quoting longhauler (Reply 20):
signs indicating that cell phones should be off.

You know, I asked someone from the airport authority about this sign, the answer was not that the phones should be off, but that you shouldn't be using your phone in that area. But that's that airport... it doesn't mean that all airports are like that !   

and...

Quoting longhauler (Reply 20):
Maybe it's an age thing. All a part of growing up.

You know the saying, "age is mandatory, growing up is optional."

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
Rdh3e
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:38 pm

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 26):
In the end, so what if there can be no interference? Would you obey to switching your phone off or not be on your phone because of:

My phone goes off when the aircraft door closes. But that's not really the question. And in the case of an actual emergency, I'd bet good money that the pax will be too busy soiling their pants to talk on a cell phone  
 
Akiestar
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:05 pm

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 27):
And in the case of an actual emergency, I'd bet good money that the pax will be too busy soiling their pants to talk on a cell phone

Tell that to those passengers on UA 93 who called their relatives using their mobile phones.  
 
Flaps
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:35 pm

Quoting Akiestar (Reply 23):
In fairness, I don't get why one should turn off their mobile phone while in the immigration queue. It's not like keeping a mobile phone on would pose a threat to an immigration officer, nor would cause undue interference.

Other than the fact that it is annoying as hell to everyone around you. Even more so if a few hundred people are all gabbing in line.
 
Akiestar
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:41 pm

Quoting Flaps (Reply 29):

Other than the fact that it is annoying as hell to everyone around you. Even more so if a few hundred people are all gabbing in line.

Telling them to not use their phones while in the immigration queue would have the same effect, right?
 
Kaiarahi
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:49 pm

Quoting Akiestar (Reply 23):
However, staying on-topic, it is also amusing how people don't turn off their mobile phones while taxiing, and how they still use their phones regardless. I remember there was a person beside me on a flight to SIN who was eagerly awaiting for some text message.

I was on a NZ flight from LAX about 18 months ago where the captain returned to the gate and off-loaded 2 expensively dressed 20-something women seated in J who ignored 3 crew requests to end their calls and turn their phones off.
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
robsaw
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:42 pm

The regulations regarding electronics (capable of RF transmission/receiption) boil down to understanding the following technical difference:

- demonstrating that a device does NOT interfere with aircraft communications and avionics (paraphrasing the requirement)
- the lack of demonstrable evidence that a device HAS caused interference

The former is hard requirement to show NON-interference, the latter is a soft requirement showing that interference hasn't occured.
 
Independence76
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:18 am

Cell phones and other electronics pose no threat to commercial aircraft of any kind.


However, it can easily be seen as a safety issue in the event of an overshoot evacuation during an aborted takeoff or landing.
 
CXfirst
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:35 am

Others must have had this happen to them.

Sometimes (really depends on where my phone is) my radio speakers will take in some interference, which is quite prominent, and this interference is caused by my mobile phone. This also happens with other speakers (but not as much as from my radio). Sometimes it is loud enough to make the radio signal inaudible.

So, mobile phones definitely do cause interference with communication devices, and could interfere with pilots navigation and radio communications. I'm not saying it is major interference, and I don't think any mobile phones would be close enough to cause any significant interference.

But, they can, and to be on the safe side they ask people to turn off their phones.

Anyway, turning off a phone (or going to flight mode) is not a difficult task, and they're useless up in the air anyway.

-CXfirst
 
catiii
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:40 am

Quoting freakyrat (Thread starter):
My question is, How did they know a cellphone was in use as they were sitting down in their jumpseats?

Probably heard someone get a text message, or heard a phone ring. Happens all the time.
 
ghifty
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:14 am

If the safety video or f/a tells you to turn of the cell phone, turn the damn thing off. If not for safety, as a courtesy to the person asking.

I was once on-board an AS flight, SEA, and this person was on his BlackBerry device the whole time. Watching YouTube video, calling people, texting. All the people in my immediate vicinity would be glaring at him (he, of course, was impervious). Sure, nothing bad happened to us during fight, but it's still rude to the person who kindly asked you to turn it off. And absolutely NOBODY wants to hear YOUR phone call.

On the other hand, I always have my DSLR in hand, ready to take photos... and I've always personally wondered how disconcerting it is to fellow passengers to hear the loud shutter click during takeoff, landing, and taxi. But the f/a don't seem to mind, and the safety video doesn't say I can't.. so..

[Edited 2011-10-27 19:36:09]
Fly Delta Jets
 
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b727fa
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:35 am

No, it's not about planes "falling out of the sky." It's about the potential for the signal (or search thereof) to interfere with the a/c.

The only "proof" you need to relieve yourself of the "lie" is to put your phone next to your alarm clock (do people still have those?) or computer monitor. BEFORE a call/txt comes in, your alarm clock will buzz and your monitor will "zing" and "ziggle" (is there a word for that?). That's the signal that interferes with the system(s).

It truly isn't about navigation...it's systems; especially on FBW a/c more than ever.

The FAA says we have to prevent PED's from interfering with our a/c systems. That's the FAR (paraphrased). WHICH PED's are "restricted" is up to the airline. That's why Airline A allows (blank 1) and not (blank 2); but Airline B might allow (blank 2) and not (blank 1).

As for "each and every phone not being a danger" one is likely correct. But with the market saturation of new phones/devices almost daily, it'd be impossible to test and certify everyone for "safe" use onboard.

That's why they're restricted.
My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
 
aogdesk
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:03 am

I just love how *some* people can make up their mind by the sole criteria of whether airplanes have crashed due to one specific factor.

@DFW Heavy: I suggest that you do some actual research (hint: ARINC) on the subject before displaying your rather profound ignorance. Not sure if you're aware of it, but you're arguing your baseless claims with professionals who've been around the block.
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:17 am

Quoting Independence76 (Reply 34):
Cell phones and other electronics pose no threat to commercial aircraft of any kind.

That's totally false. You would be amazed at how often one can hear a cell phone effect the radio's in an aircraft.

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
ghifty
Posts: 885
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:21 am

Quoting b727fa (Reply 38):
The only "proof" you need to relieve yourself of the "lie" is to put your phone next to your alarm clock (do people still have those?) or computer monitor. BEFORE a call/txt comes in, your alarm clock will buzz and your monitor will "zing" and "ziggle" (is there a word for that?). That's the signal that interferes with the system(s).

This happens at my school's campus. We have ceiling-mounted projectors, and every time someone gets a text/mms there is this strange buzzing/clicking noise. Everyone on my campus knows what that indicates, and whenever it happens some kid always says "looks like someone got a text." It happened to me once.

Quoting aogdesk (Reply 39):

I just love how *some* people can make up their mind by the sole criteria of whether airplanes have crashed due to one specific factor.

I personally take everything said here with a grain of salt.. unless it's backed up by irrefutable evidence..
Fly Delta Jets
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:27 am

Quoting freakyrat (Thread starter):
My question is, How did they know a cellphone was in use as they were sitting down in their jumpseats?

Fairly often, you can hear it over the communications system.

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 4):
Cell phone signals and the like don't do one thing to the airplane. I wish they would just quit lying.

I wish you would stop lying. Cell phone signals can interfere with aircraft communications, period. I've experienced it personally multiple times. Several other folks on this forum have directly experienced it multiple times. There are plenty of documented reports via the NASA reporting system. All the OEM's have tested and documented it. Saying it can't interfere with the aircraft, at this point, has about the same scientific validity as saying the earth is flat.

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 4):
We all knew that if it were of any concern, they wouldn't even let them past security...

If security banned all passengers, nobody would ever die in airplane crashes. But security is a balance. Taking everyone's cell phones is simply not a viable option today.

Quoting bonusonus (Reply 7):
If cell phones (or portable electronics for that matter) posed any danger to an aircraft they would have to be off and in checked luggage.

They *do* have to be off. Putting them in checked luggage doesn't make any difference.

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 12):
If it caused significant issue, planes would be falling out of the sky.

Billions of dollars are spent on ETOPS every year. No jet, in the history of aviation, has crashed due to independent dual engine failure. Based on your reasoning, we should get rid of the ETOPS regulations.

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 12):
I, like many others, leave my phone on most flights the whole time.

To paraphrase, "I, like many others, intentionally break the law by disobeying a direct order from the flight crew. I put my own convenience above the safety of the other passengers and do not do any risk assessment or analysis on the possible consequences of my behavior."

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 12):
I'm not saying it will never cause any type of interference...but it isn't a safety concern.

Yes, it is. If you miss an ATC call because of cell phone interference that is a really obvious safety concern.

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 12):
Our big brother protector (the useless government) would put a big stop to phone being in the cabin of planes if it was a big deal.

They order you to turn them off. That mitigates all the risk. If you put it in your baggage there's no way to verify it's off.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 21):
I find it a bit...odd...that we have never had reports (or accidents) caused by loss of communications due to interference by cellphones.

There are *tons* of reports of communications interference by cell phones.

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 22):
The other part of that statement that you conveniently left out is that there is ZERO scientific evidence that cell phones have any affect on airliners.

That's a flat out lie. There are many documented, proven, witnessed, recorded cases.

Quoting Independence76 (Reply 34):

Cell phones and other electronics pose no threat to commercial aircraft of any kind.

Absolutely untrue.

Quoting b727fa (Reply 38):
It truly isn't about navigation...it's systems; especially on FBW a/c more than ever.

FBW isn't really the issue...FBW is heavily shielded for obvious reasons. The problem is that aircraft have systems that, by design, have to pick up weak RF signals.

Tom.
 
jeb94
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:42 am

Try this as an experiment. Set your cellphone close to a set of speakers, particularly computer speakers. You'll hear a buzzing clicking nose at regular intervals as it transmits. That is interference from your cellphone. Now, imagine all the wiring and antennas that can be found all over an aircraft? A phone that is transmitting a signal inside an aircraft isn't very far away from something that it can interfere with. It might be minor or it might not be. Wouldn't you all prefer to not take the risk?
 
maxrockatansky
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:16 pm

RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:52 am

It doesnt cause any significant problem, its just power tripping by stewardesses., lots of people leave them on by mistake, its an exaggerated danger
 
N243NW
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:47 am

Quoting maxrockatansky (Reply 44):
It doesnt cause any significant problem, its just power tripping by stewardesses., lots of people leave them on by mistake, its an exaggerated danger

Whether or not the threat is real (and believe me, there definitely IS the possibility of interference...I've experienced it myself as a pilot, along with Fly2HMO and many others), it's not simply "power tripping" by flight crew and cabin crew. It's simple enforcement of policy.

I've left my phone on by mistake once or twice as well, and the plane I was in didn't crash. But I think the problem extends deeper than the issue of interference. People nowadays (especially younger people) are so damn anti-authority and self-absorbed that it's infuriating. So what if you're asked to turn off the device and you don't think it will cause an accident? Turn it off anyway. You're not going to gain any respect for being a "rebel" when the big bad flight attendant calls you out on it.

I'm 23 years old and have managed to own a phone without internet access for 6 years. Why do people get bent out of shape when they're cut off from Twitter or Facebook for 2 hours? It's not our job as the traveling public to choose whether or not a rule warrants our following it. Just respect the flight crew (who may even disagree with the rules themselves...they're just there to enforce them), don't delay the other 200 people on the plane with your selfishness, and if you don't like the rules don't buy an airline ticket next time.
B-52s don't take off. They scare the ground away.
 
airtechy
Posts: 543
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:18 am

Because it would be impossible to verify that every emitting electronic device that passengers might carry would not cause electronics interference, the FAA had no choice but to require that they not be used on aircraft. EMI testing can be very costly and time consuming even for one item. Been there..done that.

I am not "anti-authority" and always turn my phone on. Having said that, some percentage of passengers do not for one reason or another....forgot, ignored order to turn off, phone malfunctioned, etc. Therefore, one can only conclude that whatever interference results must be minimal especially considering that these "left on" phones are cranking up to max power trying to connect to cell towers through the airplane shielding.

Many aircraft components such as in line power filtering on electrical pumps can malfunction and cause interference such as buzzing. What interference are the pilots hearing that can only be attributed to cellphones to the exclusion of other noise sources?

Jim
 
Elevated
Posts: 125
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RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:28 am

Quoting maxrockatansky (Reply 44):
It doesnt cause any significant problem, its just power tripping by stewardesses., lots of people leave them on by mistake, its an exaggerated danger

Wow, so nice to have people in this world like you being at the top of the list of ignorance.

Your blatant lack of knowledge is clearly demonstrated by labeling ALL Flight Attends as "Stewardess." You lost all credibility right there after. You call me a "Stewardess" to my face while working and I will make sure I call you a lady to your face. I think that's more than fair. Yes, me "power tripping" by enforcing FARs (Federal Aviation Regulations-Laws) in case you don't know. I don't get to decide and it's not up for debate when I am working a flight. I bet you have this same problem with Law Enforcement. Go figure!

These bi-monthly threads here are getting old. When I work I can tell when cell phones are on--don't under estimate us by turning it over or turning off the screen. It's not cute or fooling us! Over the PA there will sometimes be a buzzing/humming sounds upon the arrival announcement. I spend most of my life on airplanes...don't insult those who do or work on them. It's the same self-important people that can't turn them off that make the blatant false statements. I am glad you decide what's exaggerated and what's not. There has been two instances when the flight deck has specially made a PA because we had interference on a leg I was working. Try to discount that.
 
georgiaame
Posts: 951
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 7:55 am

RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:52 pm

Quoting bonusonus (Reply 7):
Maybe for cell phones they could be confiscated at the gate

Please, don't give the gestapo any bright ideas that they haven't thought of already.

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 4):
I wish they would just quit lying. We all knew that if it were of any concern, they wouldn't even let them past security... I mean come on, you can't even bring a drink on from pre-security..


As soon as our, how do I say this to get past our ever vigilant moderator, brothers with long beards and deeply felt emotions against civilized nations and a decided hatred of things metal that fly, decide to put an explosive device into a cell phone, then, and only then, will the Stasi prohibit cell phones on board. "Security" is only capable of reaction, not pro-active thought or action. Which is why we have NO security, but lots of fondled little children and groped grandmothers.

Sarcasm aside, (me, sarcastic?), I've accidentally left my phone on because it had been chucked into my hand bag so I could physically get through security without having to endure a body cavity search. Turning it off for flight is a mind game, true, but it is a harmless mind game that injures no one. You push the off button, peace ensues at many levels: governmental, airline, the guy sitting next to you, and you who do not have to answer the damn phone. Deal with it.
"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
 
tdscanuck
Posts: 8572
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:25 am

RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:40 pm

Quoting airtechy (Reply 45):
What interference are the pilots hearing that can only be attributed to cellphones to the exclusion of other noise sources?

The most common is the "morse code" pulsing you hear on small amplified speakers from data transmission on certain cell phone technologies...it's the noise you get when you sit your BlackBerry or similar device next to your PC speakers. It's very distinctive and not caused by anything else. If you're the one with the cell phone on, it's really easy to isolate too because you can make it go away by turning your phone off.

Tom.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12389
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing

Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:06 pm

To me the restictions are mainly are to assure a full measure of safety rather than possibly cause a potential problem that could cause an accident or incident.

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