psa188
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San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:15 am

According to the SJ business journal, we might see ANA 787s here some day soon:

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/n...t-japan-flights-next.html?page=all
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:40 am

BOS was already announced as a 787 route for next April.

I'd think the following cities are up there for consideration:

SJC
SEA
DIA (DEN)
SAN

Less likely but still possible:
DFW (though not a Star Hub)
IAH (though UA flies to Narita already)

To be honest, SJC should be a no brainer given the ties between the Silicon Valley and Japan.
 
SANFan
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:43 am

From the article:

Quote:
Gary Weiss, ANA’s Los Angeles-based director of market development for the Americas, said Tuesday San Jose is one of 10 cities in the United States that are candidates for new or additional service. The airline now has one daily flight between San Francisco International Airport and Japan...

I think these 2 sentences are very telling as to the real meat of the article: there are 9 other cities "in the running" -- I'd sure love to see THAT list! -- and ANA currently flies SFO-Japan once daily.

As I've wondered for a couple of years now, would ANA really start a flight from an airport so close to one they already serve when there are obviously several other potential gateways they're interested in? Of course more than one of these possible new cities could see service, but that still begs the question as to if they would operate 2 stations 30-40 miles apart?

In any case, it's nice to hear that ANA may be adding new U.S. service using the Dreamliners next year! Good luck to SJC.

bb
 
wedgetail737
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:55 am

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 1):
SEA

I would be surprised to see ANA service at SEA with UA in the market, even with a Dreamliner unless they were allowed to fly SEA-Haneda or UA leaves the SEA-NRT. I think SEA would have a largest enough market to support 777-200's or larger.

I definitely think SJC would be SJC-HND or SJC-NRT contender using 787's. It's probably a given if ANA is displaying their interiors product there. Definitely would be nice to see Asian service return to SJC.
 
BMI727
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:03 am

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 1):
To be honest, SJC should be a no brainer given the ties between the Silicon Valley and Japan.

It should be, but the economy and tsunami in Japan threw a wrench in the works. I think they could give it a try next year though.

SJC, which would likely be a business heavy market, works well with ANA's low density configuration. I'm thinking that SEA would probably best be left with UA, and while DEN-NRT would be a great route for a 787, I think it would possibly be better if it were a UA 787.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
SANFan
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:14 am

One thing I will say about the SJ community (A.netters, print media, etc.) is that they are certainly keeping everyone aware that their community is chasing after and in the running for ANA service to Japan; there is a whole lot of publicity being put out there in the South Bay area!

I can almost guarantee that the other 9 mystery cities talked about in the article have been working just as hard as SJC on trying to land ANA at their airport. It's pretty obvious that there is an alternative approach to the process of negotiating, dealing, selling, begging, etc., with a carrier such as ANA -- that is behind the scenes and very low profile. (I know for a fact that is the style used by at least one airport that I would agree with 'Flyer is probably in the running for ANA as well.)

I am patiently sitting back and waiting to see what actually happens with ANA and U.S. expansion. In the meantime, I doubt it will ever be released (for the very reason I mentioned above) but I sure would love to see THE LIST, or hear more about it... A fun and exciting year or two ahead for all of us!

bb
 
LAXintl
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:19 am

In fairness the ANA Chairman this week made reference to a host of new potential markets they were looking at to utilize the 787 on including ones to Europe such as Belgium and Switzerland besides options of the 10 US markets the article mentions.

So I would not hold my breath as they obviously have many potential balls in the air and will only risk launching one or two new routes at a time.


p.s. - forgot to add. Any North America flying decisions will obviously be made in conjunction with United due to the nature of the risk and revenue sharing of the JV. So unless UA sees a route as a net-positive for the JV, it wont happen solely on ANA's desires.

[Edited 2011-10-27 21:26:51]
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usflyer msp
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:29 am

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 1):
BOS was already announced as a 787 route for next April.

That was JAL not ANA.
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:35 am

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 7):
That was JAL not ANA.

You're right sorry.
 
flySFO
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:37 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 2):
As I've wondered for a couple of years now, would ANA really start a flight from an airport so close to one they already serve when there are obviously several other potential gateways they're interested in? Of course more than one of these possible new cities could see service, but that still begs the question as to if they would operate 2 stations 30-40 miles apart?

How close are ANA's other long-haul destinations together (in Europe for example)?
 
FutureUScapt
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:23 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
p.s. - forgot to add. Any North America flying decisions will obviously be made in conjunction with United due to the nature of the risk and revenue sharing of the JV. So unless UA sees a route as a net-positive for the JV, it wont happen solely on ANA's desires.

And you can't exactly imagine that UA/NH is exactly itching to start a route that will just pull passengers away from their SFO flights....
 
wedgetail737
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:34 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
p.s. - forgot to add. Any North America flying decisions will obviously be made in conjunction with United due to the nature of the risk and revenue sharing of the JV. So unless UA sees a route as a net-positive for the JV, it wont happen solely on ANA's desires.

UA and NH may be codeshare partners through Star Alliance. But they are both individual, autonomous international airlines. Are you 100% sure that ANA must have UAL's approval to start a market in the US? Even though they do take into consideration different world markets for expansion, I think each airline makes their own decisions.

You know LAXintl, this industry is crazy...anything can happen. Don't rule out SJC-NRT or SJC-HND completely. I really don't think ANA's needs UAL's permission to serve SJC...or any US market.
 
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CV880
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:00 am

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 11):
You know LAXintl, this industry is crazy...anything can happen. Don't rule out SJC-NRT or SJC-HND completely. I really don't think ANA's needs UAL's permission to serve SJC...or any US market.

What about DL on a 763ER timed with the SFO departure to make onward conx @ NRT to DL's Asian network, or is that unthinkable wishful thinking?
 
SANMAN66
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:02 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 5):
behind the scenes and very low profile. (I know for a fact that is the style used by at least one airport that I would agree with 'Flyer is probably in the running for ANA as well.)

That's a good strategy. SJC officials should keep it silent that they are trying to woo ANA. Because it tells what
their intentions are to the competing cities also in the running for ANA service. The other cities will have the advantage
of increasing incentives and benefits to seduce ANA away from SJC. That's why we keep getting those surprise announcements, such as JAL's BOS-NRT service, or BA's SAN-LHR service. It's simply "the right hand not letting
the left hand know what it's doing." Keep it hush-hush until they know for sure ANA will in fact start service there, or
they could lose their chances to a competing offering better incentives.

[Edited 2011-10-27 23:03:32]
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richcandy
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:23 am

Quoting flySFO (Reply 9):
How close are ANA's other long-haul destinations together (in Europe for example)?

In Europe they only fly to FRA, MUC, CDG and LHR.

FRA to MUC is 398km or 247 miles
PAR to LON is 451km or 283 miles
 
BMI727
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:28 am

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 11):
Are you 100% sure that ANA must have UAL's approval to start a market in the US?

I'd imagine it depends on how their relationship and JV is structured. Either way it's better for them to be on the same page.

Quoting FutureUScapt (Reply 10):
And you can't exactly imagine that UA/NH is exactly itching to start a route that will just pull passengers away from their SFO flights....

Not necessarily. SFO will still generate plenty of traffic and fill a lot of seats with connections. SJC would work because it would pull its own market, mostly Silicon Valley business people. Sure a lot of those people probably would go to SFO anyway, but the flight to SJC could serve to 1) Pull pax who would have flown from SFO on another airline 2) Pax who may have flown from SFO to another point in Asia (nonstop or otherwise) might use SJC instead and connect in Tokyo, especially if they would have had to connect anyway and 3) the airline could possibly extract better yields from SJC than if those passengers were flying from SFO. Overall, I think the net effect at SFO would be negligible. Maybe a smaller plane on a flight or two or at worst losing one flight, but I think SJC could be a winner if the market really is there. If the route does not start or does not succeed I think it won't be because of fears about cannibalizing SFO.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
SANFan
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:55 pm

/

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 13):
SJC officials should keep it silent that they are trying to woo ANA. Because it tells what
their intentions are to the competing cities also in the running for ANA service. The other cities will have the advantage
of increasing incentives and benefits to seduce ANA away from SJC. That's why we keep getting those surprise announcements, such as JAL's BOS-NRT service, or BA's SAN-LHR service. It's simply "the right hand not letting
the left hand know what it's doing." Keep it hush-hush until they know for sure ANA will in fact start service there, or
they could lose their chances to a competing offering better incentives

Hey L., I thought I might see you here.

The strategy of keeping your cards close in and face down is apparently more widespread than the "shout-it-from-the-rooftops" method since at least I haven't heard a word about any of the other cities on the List of Ten. With the high-reward stakes involved, we normally don't hear much until an announcement is made, or at least expected soon. And the carrier itself is usually pretty quiet about things since they don't want to tip their hand to their competitors any earlier than they have to.

And again, when I look at the ANA route map and see all of 5 cities served on the U.S. mainland, I still have trouble believing that this carrier would add another gateway just 30 miles from one of those 5! Not at this stage of their expected expansion anyway...

bb
 
Osprey88
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:08 pm

Quoting richcandy (Reply 14):

Honestly, I'd hesitate to compare the distance between Paris and London or Frankfurt and Munich as I think they are certainly more defined and individually robust markets.

I would certainly love to see a 787 come to SJC and I know Chuck Reed and others are make a huge push (and probably offering significant financial incentives) to ANA to convince them to start this service, however, I just don't see this route as economically viable given the amount of capacity going from the SFO-NRT.

Hopefully of course I'm wrong in which case I'll be out at the In & Out on Coleman to watch this beast land!  
"Reading departure signs in some big airports reminds me of the places I've been"
 
psa188
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:20 pm

Quoting FutureUScapt (Reply 10):
And you can't exactly imagine that UA/NH is exactly itching to start a route that will just pull passengers away from their SFO flights.

According to this article, (scroll down) congestion at SFO's becoming a problem again, after a post 9/11 decline moderated the problem for the last decade:
http://www.centreforaviation.com/ana...york-and-change-comes-to-sfo-60823

The article points out that "This has led to the FAA suggesting that SFO, as from IATA summer schedule 2012, be designated as a level-two airport, defined by IATA as an airport 'where there is potential for congestion during some periods of the day, week or season, which can be resolved by voluntary cooperation between airlines'."

So as SFO gets congested again, look for airlines to start considering OAK and SJC again out of necessity. Wx is better at SJC, anyway.
 
LAXintl
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:22 pm

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 11):
UA and NH may be codeshare partners through Star Alliance. But they are both individual, autonomous international airlines. Are you 100% sure that ANA must have UAL's approval to start a market in the US? Even though they do take into consideration different world markets for expansion, I think each airline makes their own decisions.

They are much more than code-share partners.

Effective April 2011 they commenced their antitrust Pacific JV.

Under the JV the airlines coordinate marketing and sales, align schedules, fares, and cross sell each others flights blindly.

All revenues and cost are split amongst the partners. They are essentially one airline across the Pacific now.

Quoting psa188 (Reply 18):
So as SFO gets congested again, look for airlines to start considering OAK and SJC again out of necessity. Wx is better at SJC, anyway.

Don't think any airline will look at SJC because of potential congestion at SFO. If they look at SJC is because of perceived market demand and belief they can make money at SJC.

There are tons of congested airports around the world, which airline still pile more service into. Its all a matter of $$.

[Edited 2011-10-28 10:54:58]
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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flylku
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:08 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 2):
As I've wondered for a couple of years now, would ANA really start a flight from an airport so close to one they already serve when there are obviously several other potential gateways they're interested in?
BA serves IAD and BWI which are (great circle) only 15 miles farther apart that SJC and SFO.

[Edited 2011-10-28 19:14:18]

[Edited 2011-10-28 19:15:14]
...are we there yet?
 
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dwightm
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:10 am

Quoting Osprey88 (Reply 17):
I'll be out at the In & Out on Coleman to watch this beast land!

And I will be there as well with my camera, scanner, and a #2 meal from In & Out.  
 
SANFan
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:04 am

Quoting flylku (Reply 20):
BA serves IAD and BWI which are (great circle) only 15 miles farther apart that SJC and SFO

I never said that serving adjacent airports doesn't happen. In addition to your example, look at JFK and EWR, and probably MIA and FLL as a couple of additional ones.

I'm talking about ANA specifically here. BA serves what, 20 cities in the U.S. and is a major international carrier in this country; that's a lot different than the 5 mainland U.S. routes served by ANA. I'm just saying that when ANA expands in the U.S., does it really make sense that they would continue to leave entire huge regions of this country, containing large cities and, guessing here, large individual markets from/to Japan, completely unserved? It doesn't to me.


Quoting Osprey88 (Reply 17):
I would certainly love to see a 787 come to SJC and I know Chuck Reed and others are make a huge push (and probably offering significant financial incentives) to ANA to convince them to start this service...

You mention financial incentives. IF SJC has come up with a way to make subsidies available to ANA, or other cx for that matter, then anything becomes possible. It changes the game and could make any route possible. It's certainly been done in other cities...

bb
 
point2point
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:29 am

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 1):
DIA (DEN)
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 4):
while DEN-NRT would be a great route for a 787,
Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 13):
Keep it hush-hush until they know for sure ANA will in fact start service there, or
they could lose their chances to a competing offering better incentives.
Quoting SANFan (Reply 16):
With the high-reward stakes involved, we normally don't hear much until an announcement is made, or at least expected soon. And the carrier itself is usually pretty quiet about things since they don't want to tip their hand to their competitors any earlier than they have to
Quoting SANFan (Reply 22):
You mention financial incentives. IF SJC has come up with a way to make subsidies available to ANA, or other cx for that matter, then anything becomes possible. It changes the game and could make any route possible. It's certainly been done in other cities...


On their website, DEN is offering:

Operational Incentive
The carrier will qualify for a 100% waiver of landing fees and remain overnight (RON) parking fees during the first 12 months of the promotional period. The carrier will qualify for a 50% waiver of landing fees during the second 12 months of the promotional period.

Marketing Incentive
The carrier will qualify for a marketing incentive to be administered through reimbursements. In the first 12 months of the promotional period, the carrier will qualify for US$1 million, and in the second 12 months of the promotional period, the carrier will qualify for US$500,000.


http://business.flydenver.com/info/news/airService.asp

This incentive is currently worth about $2.1M.

Also, the new Denver mayor, along with a contingency, is going to Tokyo next month specifically to lobby ANA for NRT/DEN service.

http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_19100940

SJC has its work cut out for it, cuz here we can see what competition is out there.  

[Edited 2011-10-28 23:33:20]
 
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RWA380
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:47 am

I think AA could have made SJC-NRT work had they had the right aircraft, instead of making regular OAK fuel up stops.
Next Flights: PDX-HNL-OGG-LIH-PDX On AS, WP & HA
 
Jonathanxxxx
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:20 pm

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 1):

Ehh, I think the 9 cities will be more along these lines:
SJC
SAN
DEN
IAH
SEA
MIA? (Would have a virtual monopoly practically on MIA-Asia and can be timed for JJ connections to Brazil, AV, TA and CM.)
CLT? (Again, a virtual monopoly on CLT-Asia and great feed from US)
PHL? (Same reasons as above)
PHX? (Same reasons as above)
IMHO, ANA should go after unserved markets with little competition that were once served. Yet they'd also be in a good position to take risks and start flights to markets that have never had Asia service.
 
commavia
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:06 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 24):
I think AA could have made SJC-NRT work had they had the right aircraft, instead of making regular OAK fuel up stops.

AA has the perfect aircraft right now - they are just too conservative to deploy it, and would have a challenge scheduling it. A 767-300ER would be a great plane to put on SJC-NRT - not too big, but definitely has the legs to do the flight nonstop, year-round, in both directions. But how would AA get a 767 to SJC or NRT? And either way - sadly - AA wouldn't do it.
 
SANFan
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:03 pm

Quoting jonathanxxxx (Reply 25):
Ehh, I think the 9 cities will be more along these lines:
SJC
SAN
DEN
IAH
SEA
MIA? (Would have a virtual monopoly practically on MIA-Asia and can be timed for JJ connections to Brazil, AV, TA and CM.)
CLT? (Again, a virtual monopoly on CLT-Asia and great feed from US)
PHL? (Same reasons as above)
PHX? (Same reasons as above)
IMHO, ANA should go after unserved markets with little competition that were once served. Yet they'd also be in a good position to take risks and start flights to markets that have never had Asia service.

   I like to think you are in the neighborhood here, jonathan'. I would love to see the latest stat's showing Asian-U.S. pax volume (for currently unserved markets; I have a feeling the folks at ANA have such a list!) I would expect ANA might be more likely to stay west of the Mississippi (with its first selections anyway) but who knows. (Needless to say, I'm rather happy with your second-on-the-list choice of possible cities!)

You've listed 9 cities so to round out the list of 10, how about we add LAS? It might not be the ideal type of market ANA is after, but I bet it's a large one, and I'm sure the folks from Vegas are in there really working it!

I'm a bit doubtful about SEA since there is a lot of service already to Asia -- including UA -- so I might sub DFW, based on potential local traffic and despite alliances and such.

bb
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:25 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 24):
I think AA could have made SJC-NRT work had they had the right aircraft, instead of making regular OAK fuel up stops.

You're about 15 years too late. AA only made OAK fuel stops the first year or so around 1991 with the DC-10. SJC extended the runways and AA eventually put a 777 on the route. AFAIK, never made a fuel stop at OAK for about the last 15 years of the 16 years the flight lasted.
 
izbtmnhd
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:50 pm

ANA isn't going to serve DEN unless the flight can produce enough high-yield traffic. I don't see where that would come from.

There's always UA but they seem to be pulling international traffic out of the hub.

I wouldn't bet on DEN-NRT service anytime soon.

Sorry, I know the thread is about SJC.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:07 pm

I would certainly appreciate ANA starting SJC-NRT service to my former hometown to replace the dearly departed AA 128/129. However, I'd much rather see DL or AA restart it with a 767, only because of the AS Mileage Plan partnership.

Since AS is building up a bit in SJC and presumably is establishing a good frequent flier base and brand recognition there, I think the flight would be better served having it be with one of AS partners, perhaps with some code share connecting opportunities (maybe a good excuse for AS to resume SJC-AUS or start SJC-SNA or SJC-MIA for example).
 
wedgetail737
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:59 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 28):
You're about 15 years too late. AA only made OAK fuel stops the first year or so around 1991 with the DC-10. SJC extended the runways and AA eventually put a 777 on the route. AFAIK, never made a fuel stop at OAK for about the last 15 years of the 16 years the flight lasted.

I had heard the fuel stops at OAK occurred when SJC-NRT first started using a DC-10-30, due to a short runway. I also heard that when the MD-11's came online, they had occasional fuel stops at OAK depending on prevailing winds.

I don't think DL would fly SJC-NRT if they already have an established connection at SEA. Count your lucky stars if SJC gets NH for Japan.

Quoting commavia (Reply 26):
AA has the perfect aircraft right now - they are just too conservative to deploy it, and would have a challenge scheduling it. A 767-300ER would be a great plane to put on SJC-NRT - not too big, but definitely has the legs to do the flight nonstop, year-round, in both directions. But how would AA get a 767 to SJC or NRT? And either way - sadly - AA wouldn't do it.

AA won't re-enter the SJC-NRT market right after they discontinue it. The only reason why AA had such a connection complex at SJC was simple...the Japan flight. Of course, they also had connection and local traffic.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:06 pm

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 31):
AA won't re-enter the SJC-NRT market right after they discontinue it.

AA discontinued it five years ago. They also now have the Joint-Venture with JAL. I'm not holding my breath that AA/JL would reinstate it, but I suppose it's not inconceivable for the right incentives.
 
timz
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:30 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 28):
AA only made OAK fuel stops the first year or so around 1991 with the DC-10.

In a thread a while back somebody said the DC-10 stopped at OAK on a total of two trips.
 
Osprey88
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:13 am

Quoting point2point (Reply 23):
On their website, DEN is offering:

Operational Incentive
The carrier will qualify for a 100% waiver of landing fees and remain overnight (RON) parking fees during the first 12 months of the promotional period. The carrier will qualify for a 50% waiver of landing fees during the second 12 months of the promotional period.

Marketing Incentive
The carrier will qualify for a marketing incentive to be administered through reimbursements. In the first 12 months of the promotional period, the carrier will qualify for US$1 million, and in the second 12 months of the promotional period, the carrier will qualify for US$500,000.

http://business.flydenver.com/info/news/airService.asp

This incentive is currently worth about $2.1M.

Also, the new Denver mayor, along with a contingency, is going to Tokyo next month specifically to lobby ANA for NRT/DEN service.

http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_19100940

SJC has its work cut out for it, cuz here we can see what competition is out there.
[quote=point2point,reply=23]On their website, DEN is offering:

Operational Incentive
The carrier will qualify for a 100% waiver of landing fees and remain overnight (RON) parking fees during the first 12 months of the promotional period. The carrier will qualify for a 50% waiver of landing fees during the second 12 months of the promotional period.

Marketing Incentive
The carrier will qualify for a marketing incentive to be administered through reimbursements. In the first 12 months of the promotional period, the carrier will qualify for US$1 million, and in the second 12 months of the promotional period, the carrier will qualify for US$500,000.

http://business.flydenver.com/info/news/airService.asp

This incentive is currently worth about $2.1M.

Also, the new Denver mayor, along with a contingency, is going to Tokyo next month specifically to lobby ANA for NRT/DEN service.

http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_19100940

SJC has its work cut out for it, cuz here we can see what competition is out there.  
Quoting SANFan (Reply 22):
You mention financial incentives. IF SJC has come up with a way to make subsidies available to ANA, or other cx for that matter, then anything becomes possible. It changes the game and could make any route possible. It's certainly been done in other cities...

bb

All of this does lead me to believe SJC does indeed have its work cut out for it if its going to attract NH service.

Given the sheer dollar amount of incentives DEN is giving, SJC would probably have to come up with a similar incentive package to attract NH. Of course I have to wonder if Chuck Reed is even in a position to give such incentives given the dismal state of the city's finances. I'm no expert in how landing fees and other taxes are distributed to the city or how adding the flight would affect the city's tax revenue so someone better versed in economics should chime in!  

More broadly, the simple fact NH is considering serving a wide variety of cities across the US which have never had direct service to Asia is quite interesting. In particular, I wonder how this will affect UA loads out of SFO and LAX to NRT, especially given potential NH service to cities on the West Coast SAN, SJC, SEA, PHX, DEN etc. I assume UA will lose some pax who would normally have connected through SFO and on to NRT but I wonder just how many.
"Reading departure signs in some big airports reminds me of the places I've been"
 
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flylku
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:52 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 15):
I'd imagine it depends on how their relationship and JV is structured. Either way it's better for them to be on the same page.
Quoting SANFan (Reply 22):
I never said that serving adjacent airports doesn't happen.

I was just pointing out the fact regarding BA and IAD-BWI. I has not judging your post. In fact, I found it thought provoking.

I am sure there are dozens of other examples. Are there carriers that serve all three NYC airports (maybe even four if you include White Plains)?
...are we there yet?
 
point2point
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:40 pm

Quoting point2point (Reply 23):
This incentive is currently worth about $2.1M.

Also, the new Denver mayor, along with a contingency, is going to Tokyo next month specifically to lobby ANA for NRT/DEN service.

http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_19100940
Quoting Osprey88 (Reply 34):
All of this does lead me to believe SJC does indeed have its work cut out for it if its going to attract NH service.

Given the sheer dollar amount of incentives DEN is giving, SJC would probably have to come up with a similar incentive package to attract NH.

After thinking about this, it leads me to wonder if the trip to Tokyo by the mayor et al, is just going to result in even more $$$ to be offered. After all, this is specifically a lobbying trip, and don't lobbying trips usually involve $$$$$$$$$$ ?
 
jacobin777
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:04 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 24):
I think AA could have made SJC-NRT work had they had the right aircraft, instead of making regular OAK fuel up stops.

Or the right cost structure..    
"Up the Irons!"
 
briguy1974
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:45 pm

I have always questioned why one of the airlines currently serving SFO have not moved service to SJC. I look at DL operating the 767-300. SFO is dominated by STAR and DL is competing against ANA, UA and JAL. On another note why have both STAR carriers operate service against each other. UA could restart a second daily out of SFO and ANA could move to SJC further strengthening the STAR strangle hold on the bay area. I feel like airlines are missing out on a good move. Why compete against three other airlines when you can have SJC to yourself.
 
LAXintl
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:16 pm

Quoting briguy1974 (Reply 38):
On another note why have both STAR carriers operate service against each other.

They don't.

ANA-UA are one airline effective April 2011 across the Pacific from US mainland to Japan and a few beyond markets. Revenues and cost are shared and flights are sold blindly regardless of the operator per their enhanced ATI-JV.

So having 1 ANA operated plane, and 1 UA operated plane is the same as having 2 ANA or 2 UA flights.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:02 pm

Denver should be a prime canadite but remember how long and how hard Denver has tried to land this flight this is far from new

If ANA thought it was possible they would have taken the generous sunsidies and announced it along time ago. Denver has tried for so long and spent so much money trying to make a 787 flight to Tokyo happen the numbers must just not add up? I think Denver would have to throw crazy money at it to make this happen and they already tried visits to japan and throwing cash and waivers so the only thing they can do is offering more and more. I think its a poor use of money for Denver as the chances this route servives past subsidies seem low IMHO the numbers just must not add up

The real problem is the premium passengers to the east who would connect in Denver have TWO United hubs to connect thru from the east so UA/star/ANA don't need DEN-NRT. UA/star has not one but three hubs west of denver to move passengers thru LAX,SFO and YVR. Skyteam has no hubs west of SLC to feed those passengers thru. Neither has the premium yield to make it on O&D so feed is the only way to make it profitable. DEN feed will canabolize LAX and SFO and add very little to the network. DL has a reason why, its need is from a network perspective DEN is not really a necessity or add very much to the network that cant already fly via lax or sfo. I think DEN is gonna need to dig deep to make this happen sadly. UA doesnt seem to support international long range flying out of denver sadly since that would actually differentiate them from WN and F9. I personally would love to see this happen but i think it has a very steep uphill unless denver digs deep and even then im skeptical of long term surivial/what it offers to star besides canabailzing its existing routes out of LAX and SFO past a subsidy
 
SANFan
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:09 pm

Maybe I've missed it in the many threads about this topic but can anyone fill us in on what SJC's Intl Travel Incentive program includes? I appreciate the info on DEN's program, and I know SAN's -- similar to DEN -- and a lot of the programs that I've heard about or studied at other cities are all quite similar; as well they should be since there are limits set by the DOT (and/or FAA?) as far as what an airport can offer any and all airlines. I assume SJC's (Incentive package) must be in the ballpark with most other cities (airports) chasing ANA, et al, so we are looking at a fairly level playing field.

The big unknown remains subsidies, not offered by airports of course, but by city, county, or state governments, or private corporations. (See PDX, RDU, PIT for examples.) IMO, if ANA (or any airline) can find new (or existing) markets that will be successful based mostly on pax volume, they would prefer those to having to enter into arrangements involving cash subsidies, minimum revenue guarantees, corporate travel contracts (with guarantees), etc. (If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will be happy to correct me.) I would expect that ANA can find several markets in the US with the traffic to support n/s service; whether SJC is one of those is a big question.

As has been mentioned, given the state of the economy in California, and in SJ, are cash subsidies possible at all? Since the local government is so anxious about and involved in this chase to get ANA to their airport, will subsidies be part of the equation? If so, I wonder how the electorate will feel about it?

bb
 
point2point
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:10 pm

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 40):
Denver should be a prime canadite but remember how long and how hard Denver has tried to land this flight this is far from new

If ANA thought it was possible they would have taken the generous sunsidies and announced it along time ago. Denver has tried for so long and spent so much money trying to make a 787 flight to Tokyo happen the numbers must just not add up? I think Denver would have to throw crazy money at it to make this happen and they already tried visits to japan and throwing cash and waivers so the only thing they can do is offering more and more.

And I would think that this upcoming trip to Tokyo is just to do that. And the small contingency that's along with the mayor probably has the bags full.   

At some point, you would think that everyone has a price?

Hey, wasn't it DFW that upped their $$$ to $3.1M to get QF service there?

So any wagers as to which U.S. city will next get service from NH? I sometimes like to place bets, but I'm pretty sure that I would touch this one. SJC seems at least like it's in there now.
 
Hamlet69
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:18 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 27):
I'm a bit doubtful about SEA since there is a lot of service already to Asia -- including UA -- so I might sub DFW, based on potential local traffic and despite alliances and such.

Actually, SEA service was brought up with the delivery of the first 787. There were several quotes I remember reading. The only one I can currently find is this from The Herald:

"ANA's 787 routes could extend to North America in the future. The carrier is being courted by several North American cities to bring 787 service here.

"I think Seattle is one of the candidates," Fujiki said. It would be "kind of the perfect market to operate" a Dreamliner."


'Fujiki' is Mr. Satoru Fujiki, senior vice president (ANA). http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20110927/BIZ/709279934


When reading the various press at the time, I remember thinking that they kept referring to 'Japan' flights, not Narita. I can very conceivably see NH leaving UA on NRT-SEA with the 777, and starting a 787 HND-SEA, or even KIX- or NGO-SEA.


Regards,

Hamlet69
Honor the warriors, not the war.
 
psa188
Topic Author
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:38 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 41):
Maybe I've missed it in the many threads about this topic but can anyone fill us in on what SJC's Intl Travel Incentive program includes?

It's listed on the SJC website here:

"Mineta San Jose International Airport is committed to successful partnerships with its airlines that benefit Silicon Valley residents and businesses and that increase the availability of flights at SJC. We have two different air service incentive programs to encourage airline partners to provide flights to unserved and underserved destinations."
http://www.sjc.org/business.php?page...evelopment+|+Air+Service+Incentive
 
SANFan
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:08 pm

Quoting psa188 (Reply 44):
It's listed on the SJC website here

Ah, thank you psa'. Interesting reading (especially the "Focus City" Package but that has nothing to do with long-haul intercontinental flying.)

Their other package, the "Flexible Route Incentive Program", summarizes, for a new TYO flight for example, as a 100% fee waiver for the first year, 66% waiver for the 2nd year, and 33% waiver for the third year; according to the website, nothing else seems to be offered. (I assume "fee waiver" is referring to landing fees and does not affect other charges the airlines pay the airport such as office/counter/gate space leases, etc.) Different and simpler than others I've seen, such as DEN's and SAN's programs, but I suspect this is not the extent of what the city of San Jose (non-airport) is offering ANA and other cx for new n/s intercontinental service at Mineta Airport.

bb
 
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STT757
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:34 pm

Nine candidate cities (speculation):

DEN, SEA, PDX. SAN, LAS, EWR, IAH, PHL, MCO
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 3264
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:01 pm

of all the airports i would think bos, phl, and sjc would have the businiesses the most likely to pony up significant money in sunsidies, revenue gurantees, or contracts to make it happen.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 46):

DEN, SEA, PDX. SAN, LAS, EWR, IAH, PHL, MCO

Is SAN within 767-300ER range?

PDX already has a Delta 767 on the route. I can't belive PDX can support more than that. Delta already downgraded it from a A330 to a 767 so i doubt theres enough room for two carriers with no feed.
 
izbtmnhd
Posts: 242
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:06 pm

RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:18 pm

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 40):

What would suggest Denver is a 'prime candidate'? Service to a 98% domestic UA hub that may be in jeopardy itself?

Again, I don't see it. Neither, it seems, does ANA. They don't look very eager to act even with the incentives.
 
mogandoCI
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RE: San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year

Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:44 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 46):
Nine candidate cities (speculation):

DEN, SEA, PDX. SAN, LAS, EWR, IAH, PHL, MCO

SJC - makes sense after ANA goes double daily at SFO. HND should be reserved for SFO not SJC.

PHL - definitely a yes
EWR/IAH - unless the market is that huge, why duplicate UA/CO instead of exploring new cities ? There are already 5x daily between NYC and Tokyo among the 3 alliances spread over 5 airlines, and crucial transit hub of NRT has diminished (interestingly, all served by 777)
DEN - marginal - few cities that aren't already served by SFO/LAX/ORD
PDX - very marginal. SEA better.
SAN - if the runway could handle it
LAS - definitely no
MCO - definitely no (might as well go all the way to MIA)

maybe they can test waters with DFW and ATL.

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