psa188
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VX To SJC In 2013?

Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:31 pm

Today's SJ Mercury has this column by Sal Pizarro:

Pizarro: Virgin America CEO loses his way in San Jose
http://www.mercurynews.com/sal-pizarro/ci_19209907

Much of the discussion is how Cush had difficulty finding his way to a SJ Rotary speaking engagement, but the question of VA serving SJC next year came up.

"I'm not sure that's going to happen," Cush said, "but if it doesn't happen in 2012, I'm highly confident it'll happen in 2013."
 
wedgetail737
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RE: VX To SJC In 2013?

Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:17 pm

I think VX would do well at SJC. The question is that will they serve SJC beyond their LAX hub? VX's entry in the SJC-LAX market could probably shut down AS/QX service.
 
flySFO
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RE: VX To SJC In 2013?

Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:12 am

VX tends to like to join routes that already have several different airlines flying them, so LAX-SJC would come as no surprise to me. Beyond that, I could see JFK, LAS, and maybe SAN.
 
SANFan
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RE: VX To SJC In 2013?

Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:24 am

Quoting flySFO (Reply 2):
VX tends to like to join routes that already have several different airlines flying them, so LAX-SJC would come as no surprise to me. Beyond that, I could see JFK, LAS, and maybe SAN.

Yeah right. SJC would become the hub of non-SFO-and-LAX-only flights, joining that huge list (grown extensively over the last 4 years) of, ummmmm, let's see now... 1! (LAS-JFK.)

Another example of a David (tell-em-what-they-want-to-hear) Cush Q-and-A session.

Me holding my breath for VX to start SJC service:  Wow!

bb
 
hatbutton
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RE: VX To SJC In 2013?

Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:25 am

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 1):
The question is that will they serve SJC beyond their LAX hub? VX's entry in the SJC-LAX market could probably shut down AS/QX service.

Hard to say. They couldn't make SFO-SNA work. Because on short flights like that, price is all that matters. WN kicked their butt. Whose to say QX wouldn't do the same? Sure, no fancy jets...but free beer and miles on a respected mileage plan program that you can redeem on flights to Hawaii out of SJC. I feel like VX on shorthaul routes will never work well, like their upcoming SFO-PSP. They don't have the low costs to sustain low fares on flights like this. On a flight an hour or less, all people care about is price.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: VX To SJC In 2013?

Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:16 am

I think SJC-LAX would do really well actually unless it hurt their own LAX-SFO flights too much.
 
Jamake1
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RE: VX To SJC In 2013?

Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:03 am

I'd like to see VX bring on SFO-BUR before adding SJC. Those UAX jungle jet flights need a dose of healthy competition.
United's B747-400. "She's a a cruel lover."
 
Mr737sjtc
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RE: VX To SJC In 2013?

Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:48 pm

I think VX has a shot in SJC. As a bay area based company, SJC would complement VX. Definitely see JFK and LAS as there is no competition. LAX is also possible, but I think AS would react by going mainline on that route. What SJC has is the tech minded traveler that would prefer their product. VX should focus on the long haul east coast routes that the community is requesting. SFO will get overcrowded and possibly slot restricted. SJC is ready to meet the demand and we have a beautiful airport, but time and the airlines can only tell.
 
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Tomassjc
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RE: VX To SJC In 2013?

Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:55 pm

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 1):
VX's entry in the SJC-LAX market could probably shut down AS/QX service.


AS/QX does just fine on SJC-LAX with the majority of traffic feeding AS to Mexico and DL/AA codeshare flghts east. I don't think VX would pull that away. Very little O and D traffic for QX on that route.

Tom SJC
When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward -Leonardo DaVinci
 
steex
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RE: VX To SJC In 2013?

Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:40 pm



Quoting Mr737sjtc (Reply 7):
Definitely see JFK and LAS as there is no competition.

No competition? VX would be going up against B6 on SJC-JFK and WN on SJC-LAS.

[Edited 2011-10-29 09:41:06]
 
SANFan
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RE: VX To SJC In 2013?

Sat Oct 29, 2011 5:35 pm

Quoting Mr737sjtc (Reply 7):
VX should focus on the long haul east coast routes that the community is requesting.

Ah yes, and I would like to commend VX for their outstanding support of California cities, other than SF and LA, in the past and present.

And now that SJC is being talked about, because of some off-the-cuff remark made by Cush at a Rotary Club lunch the other day, we're already hearing all the Dallas and Chicago-like comments again, this time from the San Jose crowd: "Oh, I'm sure VX will turn OUR city into their next hub! There are so many possibilities."

A wish like yours, Mr737', judging by over 4 years now of history from Virgin America, is a complete waste of pixels. Check the history of "California's Hometown Airline": besides SFO and LAX, the OTHER California city since the beginning -- SAN, the 6th original start-up city btw -- has seen a high-water mark of 5x daily flights to SFO and a low of 3 daily flights; SNA was added in April of 2009 and dropped a year later; and PSP will be added in December for 4 months. Quite an outstanding record of service to the Golden State as a whole...

But I'm sure SJC will be different, especially being 30 miles from the cx home-base and major hub! Yup.

I will repeat what I said over in the "ANA to SJC?" thread. The SJ mayor, Chuck Reed, seems to have great plans for his airport and pretty much seems to want everything. IF he can find money to subsidize ANA, VX, and anyone else who will take the money, then it certainly could happen -- anything can happen when large bags of cash are handed out! Otherwise, I wouldn't count on much of anything from VX.

bb
 
as739x
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RE: VX To SJC In 2013?

Sat Oct 29, 2011 5:47 pm

Quoting jamake1 (Reply 6):

Just a small correction. Jungle Jets are ERJ's, we fly CRJ's SFO-BUR. But yes, it would be nice to see some mainline size aircraft back on that route.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 10):

VX has brought thousands of jobs to Californian's between VX employee's and contract services. Why should they in return fly a bunch of over-served inter-CA flights and risk those jobs going away?
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
SANFan
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RE: VX To SJC In 2013?

Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:47 pm

Quoting as739x (Reply 11):
VX has brought thousands of jobs to Californian's between VX employee's and contract services. Why should they in return fly a bunch of over-served inter-CA flights and risk those jobs going away?


J, I'm not sure how you interpreted my post (#10) or exactly what part of it you're referencing but my point is certainly not to encourage intra-Cal service on VX -- others are doing that! -- but the fact that Mr. Cush has shown no inclination what-so-ever to fly OUT of California and serve any routes other than from SF and LA.

Let's say, just for sh**s and giggles (pure fantasy here of course) that VX decided to turn the second largest city in the state, in the 4th largest MSA in the state, into a THIRD California hub and added n/s to, say, JFK, BOS, IAD, DFW, and SEA -- every single one except JFK is a monopoly route from SAN. More jobs to California, more air service to/from California, PLUS more options of destinations on VX for not only their customers in SAN, but the other cities as well!

And sure, they could do the same from SJC, OAK, SMF, SNA, FAT... I used SAN as an example simply because it was an original Virgin start-up city -- one of the 6 total and one of 3 located in the home-state of California. I, and others, thought there was some significance in that fact, emphasised by the Virgin catch phrase during the first couple of years of its existence, "California's Home Town Airline." (Turns out by "California", they meant "San Fran and LA"...)

This is why I'm trying to warn those in SJC not to get their hopes too high. That's all.  

bb
 
Jamake1
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RE: VX To SJC In 2013?

Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:30 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 12):
I, and others, thought there was some significance in that fact, emphasised by the Virgin catch phrase during the first couple of years of its existence, "California's Home Town Airline." (Turns out by "California", they meant "San Fran and LA"...)

SANFran: Your posts do seem to imply that VX made promises that they didn't keep. "California's Home Town Airline" is a reference to the fact that they are the only airline to establish headquarters in CA, not to serve every city. I don't believe that VX ever made assurances otherwise, regardless of how you or others may have interpreted the airline's catch phrase...
United's B747-400. "She's a a cruel lover."
 
hiflyeras
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RE: VX To SJC In 2013?

Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:01 pm

Quoting psa188 (Thread starter):
"I'm not sure that's going to happen," Cush said, "but if it doesn't happen in 2012, I'm highly confident it'll happen in 2013."

Whatever. Their track record of actually starting service to cities on their 'dream list' of destinations isn't very good. They seem to fly where the wind takes them. And didn't they receive a subsidy from the airport authority to start DFW service?
 
wedgetail737
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RE: VX To SJC In 2013?

Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:14 pm

Quoting flySFO (Reply 2):
VX tends to like to join routes that already have several different airlines flying them, so LAX-SJC would come as no surprise to me. Beyond that, I could see JFK, LAS, and maybe SAN.

SJC-LAX is the only segment that fits in their current business model. The other three cities do not. Simple as that. No one can rule out the others as this industry has shown ANYTHING is possible. But initially, VX would only serve LAX.
 
SANFan
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RE: VX To SJC In 2013?

Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:45 pm

Quoting jamake1 (Reply 13):
SANFran: Your posts do seem to imply that VX made promises that they didn't keep. "California's Home Town Airline" is a reference to the fact that they are the only airline to establish headquarters in CA, not to serve every city. I don't believe that VX ever made assurances otherwise, regardless of how you or others may have interpreted the airline's catch phrase...

I am not aware of any promises ever being made by Virgin regarding SAN and it is not my intention to imply that there ever were.

I will, however, share one interesting quote (although this is certainly not a promise) from Mr. Cush on 8-11-09 from an interview in Jaunted:
Quote:
Cush says that VA is always looking for more space at JFK, but any new routes will be to the west coast, with possible additions of direct flights to Seattle and San Diego.


Your interpretation of "CA's Home Town Airline" and mine are obviously different. They don't use that phrase any more either, which could be because others, besides me, were thinking it meant different things. Let me be clear: all of my opinions regarding Virgin America are based on history and how I perceive facts, including media statements, that I have seen and heard. I hope that helps.

bb
 
wedgetail737
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RE: VX To SJC In 2013?

Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:00 pm

You know, SanFAN...with those blazing comments, I think some of those airlines should move their business from SAN to Carlsbad, Tijuana or SNA. Take that!!!

Quoting jamake1 (Reply 13):
"California's Home Town Airline" is a reference to the fact that they are the only airline to establish headquarters in CA, not to serve every city.

"California's Home Town Airline" is kind of a misnomer. First of all, California is a State. Not a town. It could be San Francisco's Hometown airline. As Seattle is Alaska's hometown airline.

Although neither AS nor VX does a great job of covering intra-CA routes, AS does a better job of covering the west coast.

I wished that VX had better connections through SFO.
 
Coronado990
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RE: VX To SJC In 2013?

Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:39 pm

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 17):
You know, SanFAN...with those blazing comments, I think some of those airlines should move their business from SAN to Carlsbad, Tijuana or SNA. Take that!!!

They already tried SNA and failed, Carlsbad is getting it's own "hometown" airline and any service from SFO-TIJ would be highly welcome but for some reason I can't see this as being part of the VX business model.  
Uncle SAN at your service!
 
wedgetail737
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RE: VX To SJC In 2013?

Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:07 am

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 18):
They already tried SNA and failed, Carlsbad is getting it's own "hometown" airline and any service from SFO-TIJ would be highly welcome but for some reason I can't see this as being part of the VX business model.

I know it. It was intended as a joke to SANFan.
 
Mr737sjtc
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RE: VX To SJC In 2013?

Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:04 am

Quoting steex (Reply 9):

I meant there is no competition at this moment.
 
psa188
Topic Author
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RE: VX To SJC In 2013?

Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:28 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 10):
But I'm sure SJC will be different, especially being 30 miles from the cx home-base and major hub! Yup.

Your sarcasm is noted, but have you ever considered what could happen if SFO congestion continues to get worse. We all know about what happens at SFO when wx goes south. This is not going to change anytime soon, the grand plans of relocating runway 28R farther out in the Bay are dead. Also, sooner or later, if VX keeps growing at SFO, that wonderful new gate space in the reopened Central Terminal will be maxed out. When this happens, Cush might start looking at that underutilized airport down the Peninsula that has capacity to spare and better wx.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 12):
This is why I'm trying to warn those in SJC not to get their hopes too high.

Also noted. I'm just suggesting some long term possibilities. Of course, the recession could get worse, traffic could collapse and the whole thing could become moot.
 
hiflyeras
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RE: VX To SJC In 2013?

Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Quoting psa188 (Reply 21):
have you ever considered what could happen if SFO congestion continues to get worse. We all know about what happens at SFO when wx goes south.

The question bears asking....did VX consider this when choosing SFO as their hub? I know that anyone with a knowledge of SFO's operational misgivings thought that they were off their rocker.
 
Coronado990
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RE: VX To SJC In 2013?

Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:30 pm

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 19):
I know it. It was intended as a joke to SANFan.

So Don Rickles is a member of A.net. I didn't know. 
Uncle SAN at your service!
 
LAXintl
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RE: VX To SJC In 2013?

Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:11 pm

Quoting jamake1 (Reply 6):
I'd like to see VX bring on SFO-BUR before adding SJC. Those UAX jungle jet flights need a dose of healthy competition.

  . I'd like to see VX or SWA start SFO-BUR. Its one of the few remaining monopoly markets.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 10):
Ah yes, and I would like to commend VX for their outstanding support of California cities, other than SF and LA, in the past and present.

I'm not sure why the hostility or sarcasm towards VX.

You seem to look at everything from San Diego prism. If SAN was such a huge, valuable or profitable market everyone would be beating the doors down to get in. At the end of the day, it appears not to be.. You have what you have.

If VX(or any airline) feels there is a compelling case for added SAN flights, I'm sure they will pursue it.

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 14):
Their track record of actually starting service to cities on their 'dream list' of destinations isn't very good.

I'm not sure why you say so. They are working off their list still.

Below is what they mentioned in their DOT filings back in 2007 as potential future domestic destinations for consideration in addition to the initial first year launch cities of San Francisco, New York, Washington, DC, Los Angeles, San Diego and Las Vegas.

Atlanta
Austin
Baltimore
Boston - STARTED
Charlotte
Chicago - STARTED
Cincinnati
Cleveland
Dallas - STARTED
Denver
Detroit
Fort Lauderdale - STARTED
Fort Myers
Hartford
Houston
Indianapolis
Jacksonville
Kansas City
Miami
Milwaukee
Minneapolis
Nashville
Newark
New Orleans
Orlando
Philadelphia
Phoenix
Pittsburgh
Providence
Portland, Ore
Raleigh-Durham
Sacramento
Salt Lake City
San Antonio
San Jose, Calif.
Sarasota
Seattle - STARTED
St. Louis
Tampa
West Palm Beach.


Note SJC is on the list.

With 60 odd planes on the way, there seems to be to be lots of virgin territory yet to cover.

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 22):
The question bears asking....did VX consider this when choosing SFO as their hub? I know that anyone with a knowledge of SFO's operational misgivings thought that they were off their rocker.

They went to SFO because it is where the money was.

It turns out I was somewhat involved in the start up analysis for VX (did not know it at the time), and SFO of the potential 3 finalist cities had many economic pluses.
Not only pent up travel demand with high average fares and a semi-monopoly airline(UA had 53% of the regions travellers), but the catchment area had the US mainlands population with highest propensity for air-travel, and some very nice other demographics, such as average incomes, and home to 20-odd Fortune companies.

If you want to talk operationally, LGA is a mess, but airlines are knocking themselves over trying to get slots. Same with another dozen airports globally. Business goes where the people and money are regardless of operational headaches including SFO.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
psa188
Topic Author
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RE: VX To SJC In 2013?

Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:04 pm

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 22):
did VX consider this when choosing SFO as their hub?

We asked Fred Reid, VX's first CEO, this question back in 2007 as part of our coverage of VX for the November/December issue of Airliners Magazine:

Q: SFO is known for its infamous delays due to weather-related reductions in runway capacity. Southwest pulled out years ago because delays from SFO were impacting operations throughout its system. How do you plan to mitigate the potential pitfalls associated with an SFO base."

A. Actually, SFO is not even in the tip 20 for most delayed airports. That said, we all face the same challenges in terms of the national infrastructure-but we're going to do our best. We're engaged with FAA to become Category III compliant as soon as possible after launch, which will also help. And our "no hub" approach will prevent the domino effect too."

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 24):
Business goes where the people and money are regardless of operational headaches including SFO.

Good point, and obviously true. I have not heard VX bitching about SFO's operational limits, although who knows will happen in future if traffic there keeps increasing.
 
SANFan
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RE: VX To SJC In 2013?

Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:48 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 24):
I'd like to see VX or SWA start SFO-BUR. Its one of the few remaining monopoly markets.

Excuse me? One of the few remaining monopoly markets where? Out of SFO? Into the LA metroplex airports? In the state? (As far as I know, there are a LOT of airline monopolies for intra-California service...) Please clarify.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 24):
You seem to look at everything from San Diego prism.

For things involving San Diego, absolutely. Is that against the rules of A.net now?

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 24):
If SAN was such a huge, valuable or profitable market everyone would be beating the doors down to get in. At the end of the day, it appears not to be.

Maybe you haven't counted lately but there aren't many U.S., trans-border Canadian, or even international Mexican carriers that are NOT at Lindbergh. Is there something wrong with someone based at a busy, mid-sized city airport striving for more service? And being city-centric as well? I certainly don't think I'm the only one around A.net who suffers with such afflictions...

bb
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: VX To SJC In 2013?

Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:10 pm

I have heard some rumors that VX was looking into launching SFO-DEN/SLC/PHX in the future when more planes came in and were crunching some numbers on those markets under consideration for the distant future. I can see the logic in it get more of those western cities and VX customer base in SFO happy and LAX is even more competitive in those markets. Personally though i think those are all tough markets and within-california SFO-BUR or SJC-LAX make more sense less plane time and less competition and i can see VX doing quiet well in those markets. It will be interesting to see where VX decides to use all those planes coming in. They are gonna have to expand somewhere it will be interesting to see what strategy they decide upon. I am sure alot of what strategy will be based on what flights are loosing/making the most money are the long distant flights, short hops making/loosing the most money. If they can win some DCA or LGA slots that will obviously be a place there gonna use some of the new planes but they would need to be shorter distance couldnt be to SFO, SJC, or LAX obviously.
 
LAXintl
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RE: VX To SJC In 2013?

Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:18 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 26):
Please clarify.


SWA has done a fantastic job of blanketing the the LA Basin - Bay Area with almost 170-daily frequencies. SFO-BUR is one of two loner exceptions where to date United has been able to maintain a monopoly.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 26):
For things involving San Diego, absolutely. Is that against the rules of A.net now?
Quoting SANFan (Reply 26):
And being city-centric as well? I certainly don't think I'm the only one around A.net who suffers with such afflictions...

We'll then give airlines the benefit of the doubt.

They obviously have a better feel for the macro picture than someone with intent focus on single particular airport.

With virtually zero barriers for entry, anyone that desires more SAN service can add it. There are obviously valid business reasons why things have not played out the way you desire, whether this is VX, or lets say an AA SAN-MIA.

Badgering airlines for being occupied with what to them are more pressing interest hardly builds credibility in your arguments.

[Edited 2011-10-30 16:31:06]
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California