747400sp
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What Ever Happed To LAX Enlarging Plans?

Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:31 pm

Back in 2000, there was plan to en large LAX. Parts of Inglewood was supposed to be bought, guess to stretch runway 24, and plans to build larger terminals at LAX. LAX is the nations third busiest airport, ( yes they one up, the giant DFW) so I would think LAWA would want to en large LAX, so what happened to those plans?
 
QANTAS747-438
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RE: What Ever Happed To LAX Enlarging Plans?

Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:37 pm

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
so I would think LAWA would want to en large LAX,

LAWA would love to enlarge LAX. But there's nowhere to go. It's surrounded by neighborhoods and the ocean. People threw a fit when they suggested getting rid of houses and the plan never materialized.
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
 
kaitak744
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RE: What Ever Happed To LAX Enlarging Plans?

Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:42 pm

Right now, TBIT is being expanded / rebuilt and the north runway complex is likely to be expanded and shifted north. But, there are no plans to purchase additional land.
 
LAXintl
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RE: What Ever Happed To LAX Enlarging Plans?

Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:45 pm

In 2006, the City of Los Angeles settled all the lawsuits against it with a court approved "LAX Master Plan Stipulated Settlement" agreement.

Basically the agreement provides the framework for any current and future LAX related modernization projects including passenger and gate count restrictions to limit future traffic growth and their negative impacts on surrounding cities.
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SonomaFlyer
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RE: What Ever Happed To LAX Enlarging Plans?

Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:18 pm

Given LAX's footprint is unlikely to ever change, the airport will have to deal with slot restrictions, noise restrictions and efficiency gains. I'd hope the international passengers will be pleased by the TBIT work and it will improve LAX's ability to handle multiple 380's.

The flip side is ONT is there offering additional capacity if you look at it from a regional point of view. That airport is also operated by LAWA and could be part of a master plan for expansion. It has two runways (12,107ft/3,718m and 10,200ft/3,109m) and ample room for traffic growth. The down side is its 50 miles from LAX.

I think those folks are sharp enough to figure out the balance to keep things moving.
 
tcasalert
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RE: What Ever Happed To LAX Enlarging Plans?

Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:25 pm

Could they not expand to the west to that abandoned neighbourhood? It has been sitting empty for decades, and would surely give room to expand the runways and possible apron space?
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SonomaFlyer
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RE: What Ever Happed To LAX Enlarging Plans?

Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:42 pm

Immediately to the West is a street (Pershing Dr.) followed by a short stretch of scrub, Vista Del Mar Road then the beach. To the Southwest is a chemical plant type parcel and El Segundo just to the south. Playa del Rey is just to the north.

I wouldn't count on expansion as an option.
 
B-787
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RE: What Ever Happed To LAX Enlarging Plans?

Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:21 pm

Well, the bluff to the West is also a preserve for the El Segundo butterfly.
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flyingcat
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RE: What Ever Happed To LAX Enlarging Plans?

Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:04 pm

There is some land north of the airport that is owned by LAWA and was purchased to accommodate another runway.

It is beyond the fence but is south of Manchester parkway. Thy should use this instead of wrecking terminals 1-3.

There is also plenty of room west of TBIT if they start to bulldoze hangars, which is what Riordan advocated as it would also create a west gate connected to the end of the 105 freeway.
 
Byrdluvs747
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RE: What Ever Happed To LAX Enlarging Plans?

Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:03 pm

As there is no law preventing the airport authority from purchasing properties, LAX (and other airports) should take a long term approach and just buy homes/properties as they come up for sale. While waiting for more homes to become available, they can lease the homes that are currently owned.
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Braniff747SP
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RE: What Ever Happed To LAX Enlarging Plans?

Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:48 pm

Quoting flyingcaT (Reply 8):
room west of TBIT if they start to bulldoze hangars,

That's what they are doing now. AA is going to be (already?) bulldozed, along with some other buildings.
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LAXintl
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RE: What Ever Happed To LAX Enlarging Plans?

Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:55 pm

Quoting TCASAlert (Reply 5):
Could they not expand to the west to that abandoned neighbourhood? It has been sitting empty for decades, and would surely give room to expand the runways and possible apron space?

Its a protected habitat for Federally designated endangered species.

Quoting flyingcaT (Reply 8):
There is some land north of the airport that is owned by LAWA and was purchased to accommodate another runway.

  Another runway?

There are some concepts of relocating the current north runway complex slightly Northward due to ground movement safety issues, however it would be all insider the current fence line, and that is already openly opposed by the Mayor, City Council and community. A decision is due following NASA study due in early 2012.

Quoting flyingcaT (Reply 8):
There is also plenty of room west of TBIT if they start to bulldoze hangars, which is what Riordan advocated as it would also create a west gate connected to the end of the 105 freeway.

Some of the hangars will get demolished as part of the Bradley-West project, however any notion of a terminal at the far Westend of the airport off Pershing ended with the 2006 court ordered agreement.

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 9):

As there is no law preventing the airport authority from purchasing properties, LAX (and other airports) should take a long term approach and just buy homes/properties as they come up for sale. While waiting for more homes to become available, they can lease the homes that are currently owned.

Actually LAWA is required to buy up a few hundred designated airport adjacent properties due to noise issues, however there will never be any airport expansion beyond the current fence line. These purchased homes are being demolished and replaced with open green space.
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jfk777
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RE: What Ever Happed To LAX Enlarging Plans?

Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:51 pm

AS part of a TBIT construction LAWA should tear down terminal 3, TWA. That terminal, in its new building, should be the international terminal for OneWorld airlines at LAX. Why that old asbestos filled building hasn't been torn down is only a thing a political official in LA government would know. Put it out of its mystery and place a new terminal there.
 
aklrno
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RE: What Ever Happed To LAX Enlarging Plans?

Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:18 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):

In 2006, the City of Los Angeles settled all the lawsuits against it with a court approved "LAX Master Plan Stipulated Settlement" agreement.

Basically the agreement provides the framework for any current and future LAX related modernization projects including passenger and gate count restrictions to limit future traffic growth and their negative impacts on surrounding cities.

Does this agreement prohibit LAX from building the remote check-in/unified car rental/transit terminal that was proposed for the Westchester area where all the parking lots are now? That plan also called for removing some of the central garages and building a large central terminal and train station for the trains connecting to that remote area. For me the single biggest improvement to arriving in LA would be to get rid of the hundreds (thousands?) of buses orbiting the roads for people going to hotels, parking, and car rental agencies. THat would also eliminate the crowded sidewalks that make it so hard to walk from one terminal to another.

A few weeks ago there was a thread in which people were moaning about how hard it was to get around at LAX. I think the distances are reasonable; its the crowds that make walking difficult.

After to walking to gate 31 at LHR a couple of weeks ago I think going from TBIT to terminal 8 is nothing.
 
ghifty
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RE: What Ever Happed To LAX Enlarging Plans?

Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:19 am

Would an off-the-mainland solution ever be considered? Like Hong Kong Intl.?

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
LAX is the nations third busiest airport, ( yes they one up, the giant DFW) so I would think LAWA would want to en large LAX, so what happened to those plans?

LAX is pretty impressive in that it's footprint is much smaller than DFW's, yet still has that ranking! DFW is nearly 6 times larger, in terms of acreage (18,000 v. 3,500).

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 4):
The flip side is ONT is there offering additional capacity if you look at it from a regional point of view. That airport is also operated by LAWA and could be part of a master plan for expansion. It has two runways (12,107ft/3,718m and 10,200ft/3,109m) and ample room for traffic growth. The down side is its 50 miles from LAX.

Wouldn't it be a plausible solution to build an HSR-system connecting LAX-ONT? 47 miles away.. 20 minute train ride @ Shinkansen speeds (low end).
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SonomaFlyer
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RE: What Ever Happed To LAX Enlarging Plans?

Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:43 am

Quoting ghifty (Reply 14):
Wouldn't it be a plausible solution to build an HSR-system connecting LAX-ONT? 47 miles away.. 20 minute train ride @ Shinkansen speeds (low end).

It makes logical sense but getting right-of-way between LAX and ONT would be a eminent domain nightmare. Someone could research the existing rail right-of-ways in the region to see if it could be stitched together but this would be a massive PITA to attempt in the LA Basin.

More likely would be dedicated bus service between the two places with a 90 minute connect time.
 
LAXintl
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RE: What Ever Happed To LAX Enlarging Plans?

Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:48 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 12):
AS part of a TBIT construction LAWA should tear down terminal 3, TWA. That terminal, in its new building, should be the international terminal for OneWorld airlines at LAX. Why that old asbestos filled building hasn't been torn down is only a thing a political official in LA government would know. Put it out of its mystery and place a new terminal there.

If someone wants to build a new terminal there, I don't believe LAWA would object.

Quoting aklrno (Reply 13):
Does this agreement prohibit LAX from building the remote check-in/unified car rental/transit terminal that was proposed for the Westchester area where all the parking lots are now? That plan also called for removing some of the central garages and building a large central terminal and train station for the trains connecting to that remote area. For me the single biggest improvement to arriving in LA would be to get rid of the hundreds (thousands?) of buses orbiting the roads for people going to hotels, parking, and car rental agencies.

Idea for a grand off airport check-in facility to be built in Manchester Square is way dead. Community did not want it, airlines did not want it, and the replacement Mayor and City Council did not want it. Frankly it was a very costly post 9/11 knejerk reaction over airport security. And per the 2006 agreement is not one of the approved green light, nor even potential yellow light projects.

For consolidated rental facility, yes there likely eventually be a consolidated facility as there is already plenty of parking lots to work from. However they have not been able to pencil out the cost numbers and funding with all the rental companies that make it work. Essentially need something that could house up to 33,000 cars with cost estimate of about $800mil.

A transit center - technically there is one already. All the buses park at a facility adjacent to Lot-C.
But one day if the MTA rail Crenshaw Line ever makes it near to the airport (2017 or later), there might be a more formal transit facility.

Quoting ghifty (Reply 14):
Would an off-the-mainland solution ever be considered? Like Hong Kong Intl.?

I doubt it. Besides cost, there are tons of environmental concerns you'd need to get through the CA Coastal Commission.
Whats going to happen to the dolphins and seals??

Quoting ghifty (Reply 14):
LAX is pretty impressive in that it's footprint is much smaller than DFW's, yet still has that ranking! DFW is nearly 6 times larger, in terms of acreage (18,000 v. 3,500).

Yes LAX is an extremely efficient airport operationally. It regularly ranks in the top group of on-time performance nationally.
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kaitak744
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RE: What Ever Happed To LAX Enlarging Plans?

Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:26 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 16):
I doubt it. Besides cost, there are tons of environmental concerns you'd need to get through the CA Coastal Commission.
Whats going to happen to the dolphins and seals??

That is not why you cannot have an off-the-mainland solution. LA has no bay, and no shielding from the ocean. You cannot simply build a man-made island in an ocean. The currents and waves would just tear it apart.
 
commavia
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RE: What Ever Happed To LAX Enlarging Plans?

Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:36 am

Quoting ghifty (Reply 14):
Would an off-the-mainland solution ever be considered? Like Hong Kong Intl.?

Doubtful. Not only would be held up in environmental litigation for probably decades, but the cost would just be astronomical.

Quoting ghifty (Reply 14):
Wouldn't it be a plausible solution to build an HSR-system connecting LAX-ONT?

No. High speed rail is not economically viable in virtually any contexts, especially in the U.S. It is astoundingly expensive and takes years to get past the environmental and NIMBY, land acquisition, and noise challenges. Just look at the disastrous "train wreck" that is California's current HSR adventure.

They would be better off just investing in the highways between Ontario and Los Angeles, or of course just making what ever changes were possible and necessary to make Ontario a viable, standalone airport on a sustainable growth path in its own right.
 
Sevensixtyseven
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RE: What Ever Happed To LAX Enlarging Plans?

Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:18 am

Quoting commavia (Reply 18):

I am not too familiar with the LA area, but why not create a two extra lane, one per way, segment for buses only on the freeways for a connecting service that's barricaded off to normal traffic?

Or better yet, a light rail system on said extra lanes (Off in 2020-ish)? I know enough that it would be very expensive, but one could...say...check in for any airline out of LAX or ONT, clear security/customs, then catch a light rail/tram to the other terminal?

Or maybe an option is to expand ONT, and then have airlines fly a LAX-ONT shuttle service? For those who say it's "too short" of a segment, let me point you to US Airways' 15 some daily flights on PHL-LGA, only 95 miles, or PHL-ABE, a total of 55 miles, only 8 more miles than LAX-ONT, which is 47 miles.
Will that ex-HP 752 get delayed...again?
 
klkla
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RE: What Ever Happed To LAX Enlarging Plans?

Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:41 am

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 15):
It makes logical sense but getting right-of-way between LAX and ONT would be a eminent domain nightmare.

Unless they just build it above the 10 Freeway which connects both airports.

But alas,

Quoting commavia (Reply 18):
High speed rail is not economically viable in virtually any contexts, especially in the U.S.
 
LAXintl
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RE: What Ever Happed To LAX Enlarging Plans?

Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:01 am

Quoting commavia (Reply 18):
Just look at the disastrous "train wreck" that is California's current HSR adventure.

Speaking of which, you hear the latest out this week??

Drum roll please.............

The cost estimate for the project just more than doubled. A paltry $98BILLION, and the completion date slipped 13-years till 2033.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...let-train-20111102,0,4160884.story

Boy were voters scammed -- in 2008 voting to approve the project which was originally to cost $33Bil and complete by 2020.

Quoting Sevensixtyseven (Reply 19):
I am not too familiar with the LA area, but why not create a two extra lane, one per way, segment for buses only on the freeways for a connecting service that's barricaded off to normal traffic?

We such HOV lanes on many freeways already, and as I tend to recall most if not all the way to ONT.
Its till going to be a good 1+ hour in a bus.

Quoting Sevensixtyseven (Reply 19):
Or maybe an option is to expand ONT,

Why expand it? Its less than 50% utilized already.

Quoting Sevensixtyseven (Reply 19):
and then have airlines fly a LAX-ONT shuttle service?

We had such service for many years on United. Same with LAX-SNA
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Sevensixtyseven
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RE: What Ever Happed To LAX Enlarging Plans?

Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:37 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 21):

Shift capacity from LAX, was what I meant.
Will that ex-HP 752 get delayed...again?
 
WA707atMSP
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RE: What Ever Happed To LAX Enlarging Plans?

Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:50 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 16):
Quoting ghifty (Reply 14):
Would an off-the-mainland solution ever be considered? Like Hong Kong Intl.?

I doubt it. Besides cost, there are tons of environmental concerns you'd need to get through the CA Coastal Commission.
Whats going to happen to the dolphins and seals??

In the early 1970s, an offshore airport was proposed for the south bay. This airport would have been located 3 or 4 miles south of Long Beach. It would have kept the noise of SST takeoffs away from populated areas. This airport, and a planned major expansion of PMD, would have replaced LGB, LAX, and BUR. When the airport was proposed, the area around SNA was still largely farms and ranches, but it would have served the needs of Orange County, too.

Concerns about how the airport would function in fog / marine layer weather, and its very high cost, meant the airport never advanced past the proposal stage before the demise of the US SST program eliminated a major justification for its construction.
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boilerla
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RE: What Ever Happed To LAX Enlarging Plans?

Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:41 am

I dunno if LAX needs enlarging. Not sure which terminals are at capacity, and which have room to spare. Especially with all the construction at T6 and Bradley. Either way, the way things are done in CA, I doubt LAX will ever grow beyond its current size, at least in terms of gates.

What LAX does need is a makeover. The food options in several terminals are downright dismal, and a couple of the terminals look like they're rocking straight out of the 1960s. Compared to SFO or the new JFK terminal, I always feel like I'm in a regional airport, not one of the busiest airports in the nation.

But I imagine LAWA is waiting for the airlines to pony up the money, and none have been forthcoming. It's a shame that UA is investing another $550 million in redoing IAH which looks fairly new anyway, but they're content to let their T7 look like…well like it did 30 years ago.

One business colleague from Japan put it, "Airport here has very bad food. And very bad traffic. But, no delays."
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: What Ever Happed To LAX Enlarging Plans?

Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:10 pm

Quoting boilerla (Reply 24):
One business colleague from Japan put it, "Airport here has very bad food. And very bad traffic. But, no delays."
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 16):
Yes LAX is an extremely efficient airport operationally. It regularly ranks in the top group of on-time performance nationally.

  

Despite being cramped, LAX works amazingly well. I never have problems there. Easy check-in, short walks to the gate, bags come quickly. When I've been there, even long lines at security at T1, T3, and T6 have moved quickly. My understanding is that LAX's real problem is facilities for international flights/ pax, and that's being addressed.

Just allow enough time to get to the airport, to allow for congestion on 405 and/ or Sepulveda Blvd if you're using those routes.

As long as LAX is under the insane court decree (still can't believe the FAA signed off on it), is there any issue on the domestic side that couldn't be improved by gate and terminal shuffles, with some interior remodeling here and there? Airports can insist on those if they pay the cost themselves, right? Shuffling carriers as needed would be much less costly to LAWA and pax than would be all-new terminal facilities.

For instance, WN and US don't want to pay to move US out of T1? Fine. Is there any reason LAWA couldn't pay for it themselves and order the move? Much cheaper than new terminal facilities. Aren't LAX's fees on the lower end for large airports? I can't imagine the tiny cost of shuffling airlines would increase them much.

Yes, the food options could be improved. I'd imagine one factor is that the airport's traffic is broken up among nine terminals. If traffic were concentrated a couple of centralized buildings where one could concentrate food demand in big food / shopping courts, it might be easier. Oh well. I'll take convenient existing LAX any day.

And I like T3. 60's-80's retro--a taste of LAX's history! One can almost see Leslie Nielsen walking around deadpanning about the hospital being a big building with sick people in it.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 21):
Boy were voters scammed -- in 2008 voting to approve the project which was originally to cost $33Bil and complete by 2020.

California should cancel its HSR boondoggle / money-pit yesterday, and throw garlic at the plans. California already has convenient, reaonably-priced intrastate transportation, within existing infrastructure. It's called Southwest Airlines.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
bjorn14
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RE: What Ever Happed To LAX Enlarging Plans?

Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:12 pm

When is LAX supposed to be at capacity?
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LAXintl
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RE: What Ever Happed To LAX Enlarging Plans?

Sat Nov 05, 2011 2:59 pm

Quoting boilerla (Reply 24):
The food options in several terminals are downright dismal,

In fairness, companies bid on franchise rights, so it pretty typical you will get folks like national chains as McDonald's end up on top.

Suppose in good news for you, LAWA is in the process of re-awarding these concession agreements, and recently approved new agreement at 3 terminals which purposefully included more local eateries.

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 25):
Despite being cramped, LAX works amazingly well. I never have problems there. Easy check-in, short walks to the gate, bags come quickly.

  

And this is exactly what the airport was designed to do. Get people from the curb to the gate quickly and viceversa.

So 50-years and with 60-mil annual passenger enplanements later the facilities still work rather well as envisaged.

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 25):
Airports can insist on those if they pay the cost themselves, right?

Sure LAWA could force work, however how would it recoup the cost if the tenants don't want the work?

Airport is not a pro-bono enterprise and needs to recoup its cost somehow, but cannot force changes to long term rental agreements simply because as it desires.

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 25):
For instance, WN and US don't want to pay to move US out of T1? Fine. Is there any reason LAWA couldn't pay for it themselves and order the move?

LAWA attempted on several occasions to facilitate various move scenarios for T-1 tenants, however they were ultimately unsuccesful.

However if WN really wants more space, I'm pretty sure for the right price US would move.

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 25):
ren't LAX's fees on the lower end for large airports?

They have risen a good deal in the last 3 or so years. Certainly cheaper then SFO, but more costly than DFW or ATL these days.

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 26):
When is LAX supposed to be at capacity?

Depends what you mean by "capacity".

The court agreement has a 75mil annual enplanement cap before upwards of 10-gates must be withdrawn from service.

For physical capacity I've seen a document that estimated the current facilities could handle upwards of 80-mil annual enplanements.

ATC wise the airport runs only about 60% of capacity, with plenty of slack even at peak hourly periods.
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WA707atMSP
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RE: What Ever Happed To LAX Enlarging Plans?

Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:03 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 27):
ATC wise the airport runs only about 60% of capacity, with plenty of slack even at peak hourly periods.

This was not always the case. In the 1960s and 1970s, LAX ATC was much more congested than it is now, in part because LAX had far more commuter / short haul flights.

If anyone is interested in what it was like to be an air traffic controller in Southern California in the 1970s, get a copy of "Pressure Cooker", by Don Biggs. This book has interviews with controllers at LAX's tower, LAX Tracon (pre-So Cal approach), and Palmdale Center, and also has several chapters of dialogue between controllers and aircraft, with the controllers explaining why they managed aircraft the way they did. It also re creates the fatal mid air collision between a Golden West Twin Otter and a private aircraft over Whittier in 1975.

Pressure Cooker is long out of print, but it isn't hard to buy on line.
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Beardown91737
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RE: What Ever Happed To LAX Enlarging Plans?

Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:42 am

Pushing traffic to a nearby airport and providing a bus or rail ground link would need expensive infrastructure which California can't afford. It would also put a delay in between two air segments, defeating the purpose of air travel.

The existing infrastructure is not adequate to get a quick trip between ONT or SNA and LAX.

From ONT, I think there is a gap in the San Gabriel Valley on the 10. In addition, the bus would need to leave the HOV lanes to switch from the 10 to the 605 to the 105 freeways, and there is Kellogg Hill which buses do not handle well in either direction. From SNA, it's the 405.

Air shuttle makes sense with an airport on both ends, but how many seats, how often, and who runs it? Which of the 7 terminals at LAX would handle the shuttle? At ONT there are only two terminals, but 1/2 mile apart. There would also be safety issues on the short flight. The 1975 Whittier mid-air was on a ONT-LAX trip.

What really makes splitting the traffic with a reliever airport hard to do is that the system really needs big airports that have both international and domestic connections. LAX fills that role and is also a destination for tourism. You can try to push traffic to places where people are happy to use a local airport, but LAX would remain the local airport for Los Angeles itself, even though a large part of LA is closer to BUR and 250,000+ LA residents are closer to LGB.

LAX is comfortably under the 75 million annual PAX limit, and doesn't look like they can exceed it anytime soon. If they do, it may be good news for SFO and SEA, or it might just result in better gate utilization, and switching to bigger aircraft.
135 hrs PIC (mostly PA-28) - not current. Landings at MDW, PIA, JAN.
 
bluejuice
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RE: What Ever Happed To LAX Enlarging Plans?

Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:14 am

Quoting boilerla (Reply 24):
What LAX does need is a makeover. The food options in several terminals are downright dismal, and a couple of the terminals look like they're rocking straight out of the 1960s. Compared to SFO or the new JFK terminal, I always feel like I'm in a regional airport, not one of the busiest airports in the nation.

Here is a link from earlier in the year on plans for new concessions. As someone who flies in and out of T4 this can't come soon enough. I have been told the restaurants are those familar to locals. Certainly beats the terrible Chili's Too, world's slowest Burger King, and the On The Border "Mexican" food.

http://www.lawa.org/uploadedFiles/bo...20Terminals%204,%205,%207,%208.pdf

[Edited 2011-11-06 21:14:46]

[Edited 2011-11-06 21:19:44]
 
Byrdluvs747
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RE: What Ever Happed To LAX Enlarging Plans?

Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:47 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 12):
AS part of a TBIT construction LAWA should tear down terminal 3, TWA. That terminal, in its new building, should be the international terminal for OneWorld airlines at LAX.

 

Please explain why OW airlines should be moved over to the T3 area and out of TBIT. OW will have the largest lounge in TBIT as well as improved connectivity to AA's flights in T4. So I'm sure they will have a big issue with being moved. If anyone should be relocated, it would be Skyteam.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: What Ever Happed To LAX Enlarging Plans?

Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:14 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
Its a protected habitat for Federally designated endangered species.

Huh?

What endangered species?

Other than termites, black flies, and those weird yellow cockroaches, what's out there?
 
LAXintl
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RE: What Ever Happed To LAX Enlarging Plans?

Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:37 pm

The dunes directly West of the airport are home to the El Segundo Blue Butterfly
http://www.butterflyrecovery.org/species_profiles/el_segundo_blue/

Additionally the coastal waters in the Santa Monica Bay are home to several species dolphins, whales and seals and are part of Federal restoration projects which greatly restricts commercial activity in the area.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: What Ever Happed To LAX Enlarging Plans?

Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:56 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 33):
The dunes directly West of the airport are home to the El Segundo Blue Butterfly
http://www.butterflyrecovery.org/species_profiles/el_segundo_blue/

Additionally the coastal waters in the Santa Monica Bay are home to several species dolphins, whales and seals and are part of Federal restoration projects which greatly restricts commercial activity in the area.

Okay, I get it.

I remember being on the Delaware Bay car ferry once when a pride of porpoises surrounded the boat -- no doubt hoping for tasty handouts. The captain cut the engines and we coasted for 25 minutes. Anything for Atlantic porpoises. Fortunately, the tide was inbound.

Amazingly, I've been flying in-and-out of LAX for 30 years and have never heard of the El Segundo Butterfly.

I'm glad the Pacific Gray Whales aren't so sensitive.
 
Newark727
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RE: What Ever Happed To LAX Enlarging Plans?

Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:07 am

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 34):

Amazingly, I've been flying in-and-out of LAX for 30 years and have never heard of the El Segundo Butterfly.

At one point when the Observation Deck was having some sort of event I got an El Segundo Blue Butterfly luggage tag...
 
LAXintl
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RE: What Ever Happed To LAX Enlarging Plans?

Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:28 am

The LAX Control tower has a lit up blue butterfly on it.

LAX Control Tower (by Sfomb67 Oct 4 2009 in Civil Aviation)
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California

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