lhr380
Topic Author
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BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:22 pm

Just doing my weekly check of the BA source and saw this

Quote:
3rd November 2011 - Lagos Flights under threat in Landing Rights Row.
British Airways flights from London Heathrow - Lagos could be slashed from seven to three per week from next Tuesday 8 November after the Nigerian government withdrew rights to operate on the other days. The row stems from Nigeria’s Arik Air being unable to utilise all its permitted 21 flights per week from Nigeria - UK into London Heathrow due to lack of available slots. To make matters more inconvenient for British Airways the three permitted Lagos slots have been switched from a 1730 landing and 2245 take off to a 0600 landing and a 1000 take off.

Its only just coming out on the news sites

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukp...zw6xKg?docId=N0448301320337771286A

http://www.thisdaylive.com/articles/...es-ba-s-flights-to-nigeria/101926/

http://www.boston.com/news/world/eur...ritish_airways_flights_from_lagos/


This will cause a problem or 2!!
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
anstar
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RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:33 pm

Why dont Arik fly to LGW instead?
 
lhr380
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RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:35 pm

Quoting anstar (Reply 1):

Question is why do they send 737s here!! They could utilise a connection to where ever the 340 flys from and use that saved flight for an extra service.
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
B747forever
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RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:36 pm

Quoting anstar (Reply 1):
Why dont Arik fly to LGW instead?

The same reason why every carrier wants to fly into LHR and not LGW.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
santos
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RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:42 pm

What about VS? They also fly to LOS, not sure about frequency.
 
lhr380
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RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:47 pm

Quoting santos (Reply 4):
What about VS? They also fly to LOS, not sure about frequency.

Its a government spat, they will go for the biggest name carrier on the route. More people know BA more then VS. All the news articles only mention BA
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
skipness1E
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RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:38 pm

Arik Air just dropped Abuja-LHR on the B738 but still have LOS-LHR on the A345 with the occasional B738. If they're not filling the A345 what is the issue?
 
lhr380
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RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:45 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 6):
Arik Air just dropped Abuja-LHR on the B738 but still have LOS-LHR on the A345 with the occasional B738. If they're not filling the A345 what is the issue?

They have suspended ABV? Hmmm wonder why they want more slots then
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
anstar
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RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:48 pm

Quoting santos (Reply 4):
What about VS? They also fly to LOS, not sure about frequency.

But BA have 14 frequencies to Nigeria and VS have 7.... so cut the one with the most frequencies.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 3):
The same reason why every carrier wants to fly into LHR and not LGW.

But if you cant get LHR slots then you go elsewhere.... The bilateral is between countries... not between Nigeria and LHR
 
B747forever
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RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:57 pm

Quoting anstar (Reply 8):
But if you cant get LHR slots then you go elsewhere.... The bilateral is between countries... not between Nigeria and LHR

Well tell that to the Nigerian government.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
bennett123
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RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:04 pm

What are Arik's LF like.
 
anstar
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RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:04 pm

Quoting B747forever (Reply 9):
Well tell that to the Nigerian government.

I will when I travel there to collect my lottery cheque - Just received an email saying I had won and just need to send my bank details!  
 
B747forever
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RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:09 pm

Quoting anstar (Reply 11):
I will when I travel there to collect my lottery cheque - Just received an email saying I had won and just need to send my bank details!

Oh well too bad, I was quicker than you. Already sent them my bank details  

You gotta love those emails, dont you  
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
bennett123
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RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:30 pm

If Arik has 21 flights a week, and BA has 7, then perhaps the UK should consider reduction of Arik to 3 a week as well.

What is good for the goose is good for the Gander.
 
usflyer msp
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RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:47 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 13):
If Arik has 21 flights a week, and BA has 7, then perhaps the UK should consider reduction of Arik to 3 a week as well.

What is good for the goose is good for the Gander.

Arik only has 3 flights a week..
 
bennett123
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RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:14 am

Not according to the OP.

"The row stems from Nigeria’s Arik Air being unable to utilise all its permitted 21 flights per week from Nigeria - UK into London".
 
skipness1E
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RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:20 am

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 14):
Arik only has 3 flights a week..

No they do not, they have a daily A340-500 on LHR-LOS, W3101 / 102.
Arrives at the same time as WY101 from Muscat much to the annoyance of ATC....
 
RyanairGuru
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RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:08 am

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 16):
Arrives at the same time as WY101 from Muscat much to the annoyance of ATC....

Why? It's not as if "Oman Air" and "Arik Air" are so similar to be grounds for confusion?
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
Feroze
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RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:56 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 17):

Why? It's not as if "Oman Air" and "Arik Air" are so similar to be grounds for confusion?

But the flight numbers are exactly the same.
 
usflyer msp
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RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:15 am

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 16):
No they do not, they have a daily A340-500 on LHR-LOS, W3101 / 102.
Arrives at the same time as WY101 from Muscat much to the annoyance of ATC...

Sorry...i was thinking of JFK for some reason....
 
ZRH
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RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:27 am

I really hate such stupid and childish behaviour by governements. It is probably an owngoal for Nigeria.
 
RyanairGuru
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RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:36 am

Quoting Feroze (Reply 18):
But the flight numbers are exactly the same.

But the call signs are totally different.

If we had, say, "Arik Air 101" and "Delta 101" then maybe that's justified given the room for confusion associated with "Delta" but I somehow doubt that an Arik Air pilot would get confused by "Oman Air 101"
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
ha763
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RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:10 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 21):
But the call signs are totally different.

If we had, say, "Arik Air 101" and "Delta 101" then maybe that's justified given the room for confusion associated with "Delta" but I somehow doubt that an Arik Air pilot would get confused by "Oman Air 101"

You would be surprised. I know of instances where HA and AQ pilots mistakenly responded to ATC because of similar, not only identical, flight numbers. AQ's call sign was Aloha and Hawaiian's is Hawaiian. Hard to confuse, but it has happened.
 
ebbuk
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RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:27 am

Quoting anstar (Reply 8):

"Quoting B747forever (Reply 3):
The same reason why every carrier wants to fly into LHR and not LGW.

But if you cant get LHR slots then you go elsewhere.... The bilateral is between countries... not between Nigeria and LHR"


Your reply sounds very colonial. Let the natives go to our other airport, we'll have the main one. Bilateral agreement must be equal too, surely?

Quoting ZRH (Reply 20):

"I really hate such stupid and childish behaviour by governements. It is probably an owngoal for Nigeria."

Another very colonial sounding comment. You may not know it but lots of Africa's nations are 50yrs or so. In those years, many have done deals with Europe and their own colonial powers which were designed to improve life and open commerce, increase wealth for the new emerging nations. It hasn't happened. Many of the agreements are biased towards the West.

It can't carry on. BA cannot expect prime slots at both airports without giving up a similar amount for the Nigerian carrier. Would it be so bombastic with AF, CX, EK for example, then claim that it is an innocent party?
There is talk of an African Spring going on at the same time as the Arab Spring. It would appear that now it isn't enough to pay bribes to officials to keep the status quo. Perhaps Nigerians have always wanted to play in the main league rather than be known as scamming individuals? Let us hope so.

Arik Air sounds like it is a fine airline and I for one would not want to see it be bullied to failure by the British by being forced to take scraps. Stand strong African Lion!

UPDATE.
IAG buy BMI from Lufthansa. Now no excuse to blame the government and offer up slots and play on a level playing field.

[Edited 2011-11-04 00:30:44]
 
BMI727
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RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:31 am

Guys, this is Nigeria. It's nothing a little bribe couldn't fix.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
lhr380
Topic Author
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RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:11 am

Quoting ebbuk (Reply 23):
BA cannot expect prime slots at both airports without giving up a similar amount for the Nigerian carrier

Umm, BA buys the slots that become available, its not something they have control over. They are not stopping Arik coming in, there are no slots in LHR.
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
Lufthansa
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RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:37 am

Well I am going to upset some people but I am going to say BA STAND STRONG!
This is one time it may pay BA and VS to work together because they're ultimately both facing
the same kinds of risks here, being used as a pawn by the Nigerian government. Firstly,
Arik Air can get slots the exact same way Continental, Delta, Northwest and friends got slots at LHR.
Buy them. But they're Fricking expensive! If ArikAir has no friends, well maybe they should have thought
about that before they were playing games with the likes of Delta who's skyteam partners would hold plenty.
I'm sure AF/KL would hardly be interested in selling. Emirates had no trouble getting them. They are there.
It's just not cheap. It's like owning an expensive house on the Sydney harbor. Everybody would like to have it
but it's gonna take millions and millions to get somebody to agree to give that up. Or a Penthouse on the upper east side of Manhattan. They're hard to get, but you just have to "make somebody an offer they can't refuse'. Nigeria has oil money, surely somebody there can do some kind of deal?

Next i would say BA, and VS need to stand to stand together here. This is an unconvential tactic, but it might help Nigeria start this sort of crap, (and one of my best friends is a Nigerian Lawyer here and even she said, they're just trying to see if they can get it for free...egos are big in this part of the world), if BA and VS can't get a dipolmatic solution fast, they of their own accord Pull all of their flights. This would create a Huge Huge inconvenience for Nigerian business people. BA and VS should refuse interlining with Arik Air passengers as well. While Arik Air would probably respond by simply putting its prices up thanks to the increased demand, it would force a lot of wealthy Nigerians either to pay much much higher prices, or connect in Paris, Amsterdam etc. The Nigerian Elite will soon get the jack of that.

BA has done nothing wrong here. Those of you going on about 'you're acting like colonials'... where is your loyalty to a British company being Bullied and picked on because these guys want something for free? And let's not forget what they did to Branson. And I too come from a Colony before you attempt to paint me up as some kind of Imperialist.
 
gkirk
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RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:29 am

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 25):
Umm, BA buys the slots that become available, its not something they have control over. They are not stopping Arik coming in, there are no slots in LHR.

Wrong.

There are slots available at LHR, just not at prime times  
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
skipness1E
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RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:39 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 17):
Why? It's not as if "Oman Air" and "Arik Air" are so similar to be grounds for confusion?

Similar sounding accent arriving on the same routing over Lambourne at the same time every night, to land on the same runway. Believe you me it can be confusing, this is why so many airlines don't ise flight numbers anymore. Virgin are adding a suffix to most of their callsigns, BA have a few randoms too.

It's quite noticeable that LHR also has AAL173 and AAL137 on frequency at the same time as each other.
 
lhr380
Topic Author
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RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:39 am

Quoting gkirk (Reply 27):
There are slots available at LHR, just not at prime times  

Sorry, thats what I meant, no slots at the time they want.
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
bennett123
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RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:19 am

Perhaps someone can clarify.

According to the OP, Arik currently has 21 flights a week on this route.

BA currently has 1 return per day.

Therefore CURRENTLY has MORE flights than BA.

Unless I have missed something here.

If Nigeria wants to cut BA to 3 per week, then cut Arik to 3 per week + whatever VS have.
 
skipness1E
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RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:27 am

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 30):
According to the OP, Arik currently has 21 flights a week on this route.

It's seven, a once daily A340-500 that some nights operates as a B737-800.
 
ogepma
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RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:37 am

This is simply a reaction by the Nigerian government because someone has upset them or is not playing ball. I highly doubt Arik is filling its 738's to LHR let alone the A345's from LOS. I believe this is the reason why they are discontinuing ABV-LHR. This reminds of of a period when BA used to serve LOS 14 times weekly and ABV Daily. The Government stopped the second LOS flights after several months and the reason was that it was ''hurting'' Nigerian carriers! We didn't even have any Nigerian airline flying out of Africa let alone LHR during that period. All they want is money or as 'Lufthansa' mentioned earlier on free slots. EK has been serving LOS twice daily with 77W's and they still don't think that is hurting Nigerian carriers. Cutting LOS frequencies for BA would't help Arik, pax would simply move to VS, AF, LH, KL, TK and even EK. Nigerians don't really have faith in Arik and they are not exactly the cheapest alternative. The fact that they use a 737 to LHR is enough to drive Nigerian pax away from them. Unfortunately at home, that kind of aircraft is deemed to small for such a flight and Nigerian's don't like small planes. In Nigeria a lot of people believe the bigger the plane, the safer and I don't know why we have that mentality at home. That's why they would rather stick with BA, LH and KL who use A330's and 777s on the same route.
 
bennett123
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RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:39 am

iirc, a few months ago DL(?) wanted to operate a B767 to Nigeria. Nigeria then kicked off and demanded a B777.

Then Arik use a B737-800.

Perhaps the UK should demand that all flights are A340-500?.  
 
ebbuk
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RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:57 am

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 26):

"BA has done nothing wrong here. Those of you going on about 'you're acting like colonials'... where is your loyalty to a British company being Bullied and picked on because these guys want something for free? And let's not forget what they did to Branson. And I too come from a Colony before you attempt to paint me up as some kind of Imperialist."

I have no more loyalty to a company that profits out of the poverty of others than I have for a banking system that profits at the expense of every tax payer in the world.

It just isn't a level playing field. Funnily the same inequality (different market) that had the French and British governments offer government aid to Airbus. The British government MUST give special assistance when signing Bilateral agreements. For too long there hasn't been a viable operation from Nigeria. Not sure there is a "Use by Date" on the agreement. If there isn't, you have to abide by the agreement. Surely?

I have heard that the LOS route is one of BA's most profitable. Why? It and VS have little competition so they can charge Nigerians ridiculous fares year round. Your Nigerian lawyer friend is probably ok with the fares. But what about the nurse or civil servant wanting to return home for holidays, can they not profit from competition in the marketplace the way I do on the JFK route? It's the same thing all over Africa.

You know this isn't the Wild West lawless land where whoever lands first has ownership, there is an agreement in place and now the Nigerians want their fair share. According to Arik Air's boss there isn't any question of getting anything for free. Heck BA had to surrender slots to satisfy regulatory obligations and this one is no different.

quote_
bennett

"iirc, a few months ago DL(?) wanted to operate a B767 to Nigeria. Nigeria then kicked off and demanded a B777.

Then Arik use a B737-800.

Perhaps the UK should demand that all flights are A340-500?. "

Um the issue was about using old equipment to Africa. Typically Africans (the poorest peoples on the plant) pay the highest fares per km and fly the oldest planes. I'm glad the Nigerians kicked off. Enough already.

Now the 737 would also upset me too. Though if Arik could get the same optimal slots given to BA and VS then maybe I could run a bigger craft to feed pax onwards through alliances. Or would that be deemed unfair?
 
ba319-131
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RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:07 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 24):
this is Nigeria. It's nothing a little bribe couldn't fix.

- Indeed, I'm sure you are correct.

This is just another shining example of how Nigeria operates, I don't think I need go further........
111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
 
skipness1E
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RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:11 pm

Quoting ebbuk (Reply 34):
Though if Arik could get the same optimal slots given to BA and VS then maybe I could run a bigger craft to feed pax onwards through alliances. Or would that be deemed unfair?

Or you could start with a B737 at a sub-optimal time and make a go of it and build from there like everyone else. The slots are so bad they're in the same arrival departure period as rubbish carriers like Oman Air, Singapore (using the little A380 at this time), Emirates (again downsized to the the A380 at this terrible time of the evening), Emirates again with a B777, Cathay with a B777, Kingfisher with two A330s, Jet Airways with two B777-300ERs, Air India with a B777-300ER etc etc. All in and back out around the same time as Arik Air. What was your point again? Stop blaimg everyone else and look a little closer to Nigeria and how it behaves I think!
 
ebbuk
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RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:17 pm

Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 35):

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 24):
this is Nigeria. It's nothing a little bribe couldn't fix.

- Indeed, I'm sure you are correct.

This is just another shining example of how Nigeria operates, I don't think I need go further........"

No more mes ami. With Wiki Leaks and social networks, Officials can no longer be silenced with bribes. And which government is now going to make the payment and run the risk of being caught? Listen people there is an African Spring that is sprouting new shoots unlike anything known in Africa before.

[Edited 2011-11-04 05:28:47]
 
kl692
Posts: 636
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RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:29 pm

Hmmm I wonder if CO starting their service there might play a roll in this decision making even though it's different routes. This might not be so bad for BA as a lots of their US customers flying into LOS might opt to go with CO once CO gets going.

Just a thought!
A310, A330,A346,B73H, B747,B772,B77W,CRJ
 
fcogafa
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RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:38 pm

An article on the net states that the Abuja slots were leased from another carrier, can't remember which, and were quite expensive so ARA were no longer willing to pay for them.
 
B747-4U3
Posts: 617
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2002 8:08 am

RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:04 pm

Quoting ebbuk (Reply 23):
Your reply sounds very colonial. Let the natives go to our other airport, we'll have the main one. Bilateral agreement must be equal too, surely?

Arik Air is free to fly to Heathrow, and does indeed fly there because they have managed to get slots. If they could not get slots, then they could use another airport where they can get slots. Many airlines from the "colonies" do fly into Heathrow, along with Arik Air, so I fail to see what problem your comment is about?

Quoting ebbuk (Reply 23):
Another very colonial sounding comment. You may not know it but lots of Africa's nations are 50yrs or so. In those years, many have done deals with Europe and their own colonial powers which were designed to improve life and open commerce, increase wealth for the new emerging nations. It hasn't happened. Many of the agreements are biased towards the West.

Favourable agreements to the West were granted by various African governments. It was a nasty situation where the West supported certain governments who would be favourable, and those governments granted favourable conditions to the West in return for support - as well as lining their own pockets. It is an unpleasant situation but it is not a one-sided one. 

Quoting ebbuk (Reply 23):
It can't carry on. BA cannot expect prime slots at both airports without giving up a similar amount for the Nigerian carrier. Would it be so bombastic with AF, CX, EK for example, then claim that it is an innocent party?

Why should BA give up any slots for Arik Air. Arik Air have slots at Heathrow that they are not using to the fullest extent. The slots that they have are at decent times for flights to and from Nigeria - indeed I believe that they have similar times to Virgin. They could probably get more slots at those times if they really wanted to. 

If those slots are not suitable, then they will have to buy or lease them from a carrier that wants to sell - just as other airlines have done. CO, EK, QR and EY have all purchased or leased slots, along with BA. Why should Arik Air be treated any differently from those carriers?

Quoting ebbuk (Reply 23):
Arik Air sounds like it is a fine airline and I for one would not want to see it be bullied to failure by the British by being forced to take scraps. Stand strong African Lion!

They are not being forced to take scraps. They have perfectly good slots. If they cannot compete then perhaps they should look at their strategy and management rather that trying to shift the blame onto others.

Quoting ebbuk (Reply 23):
IAG buy BMI from Lufthansa. Now no excuse to blame the government and offer up slots and play on a level playing field.

As you are so keen on a level playing field, then I am sure that you will agree that Arik Air should have to buy slots at the time it wants, just as EK, QR, BA, EY and CO have done. After all, it would not be a fair or level playing field if Arik Air was given those slots when other airlines have had to pay for them!


The saddest part of this "nonsense" is that those that will suffer are Nigerian people. A lots of Nigerians live in the UK and go home to see friends and relatives. They will simply end up having to pay more for their flights due to restricted capacity. Great job guys!
 
outbackair
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:01 pm

RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:11 pm

LOS-ABV - Arik didn't choose to pull out, they were forced out. This flight was only 5 times a week.

LOS-LHR - The 738 has been used for a while because the A340s were in for C-checks but not returned on time. They were needed for the JFK route. There is only one daily. Don't know why people keep saying 21 flights per week.

Not sure why they didn't lease another widebody though.
 
bennett123
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RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:37 pm

IIRC, Arik has a poor reputation regarding prompt payment.
 
I380North
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:25 am

RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:47 pm

This is ARIK side of the story as told by a newman. For whatever is worth.
http://www.thisdaylive.com/articles/...rik-operations-to-heathrow/101569/

Well, hasn't it being a love-hate relationship between Nigeria and BA? Are you surprised?
You know, I know, and BA knows, this is a BA's top 3 high-yield route. This one spate shall be over. Kiss and make up.
I hope it is settled before the Xmas rush. And you know who is going to bear the higher ticket price.

I also think it is not all British govt. fault as the Nigerian pols will like you to believe. W3 B737 on the LHR-ABV route just not going to cut it compared to BA,s B777, and arik just do not have the hard product. Is W3 getting any more A330's?
 
oneworld77
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:05 pm

RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:55 pm

Quoting ebbuk (Reply 23):
Your reply sounds very colonial. Let the natives go to our other airport, we'll have the main one.

Hmmm, lets see here, ex Colonials operating in to LHR:
Aer Lingus; South African; Qantas; Air New Zealand; Gulf Air; Emirates; Oman Air; Yemenia; Malaysian; Singapore; Cathay Pacific; American; United; USair; Continental; Air Canada; Delta; Kenyan; Air India; Pakistan International; Jet airways; Kingfisher; Etihad.

Not too shabby for the 'colonials'. Arik just needs to cough up, like every other carrier - rich and poor.

Quoting ebbuk (Reply 34):
Um the issue was about using old equipment to Africa. Typically Africans (the poorest peoples on the plant) pay the highest fares per km and fly the oldest planes. I'm glad the Nigerians kicked off. Enough already.

Yes, the 767 is such old equipment. When I fly to the outer islands of Scotland I feel like a 2nd class citizen on the Twotter and Saab's. How do those dears in Paris cope with their 767's operating to JFK, LAX etc etc. Purrrleeeease!! Are you for real?

Quoting ebbuk (Reply 34):
Typically Africans (the poorest peoples on the plant) pay the highest fares per km and fly the oldest planes.

Well we're not talking about Africa and Europe in general here, but Nigeria and the UK. Nigeria being far more mineral rich than the UK and the potential to be THE powerhouse of the entire continent. The fact the Nigerian Government refuses to share that wealth with it's people, is for it's people to deal with and therefore good luck with the

Quoting ebbuk (Reply 37):
African Spring

because Nigerians deserve a cogent, coherent player on the world stage, not begrudging wallahs who throw their toys out of their pram at the slightest notion.

As for a 737 on the route - I mean really.
Flown - EI;BA;RE;FR;WW;TW;TS;US;JP;JT;AT;QF;JQ;VB;NC;TR;D7;AA;IB;AF;SN;LX;SR;LH;AY;CX;CP;9K;9W;IX;AI;IC;EK;EY;GF;QR;BE;N
 
BRJ
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:34 pm

RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:02 pm

Quoting outbackair (Reply 41):
Don't know why people keep saying 21 flights per week.

I believe the '21' number comes from the # of slots.
Wasn't it mentioned that there are 21 slots allowed for British carriers, and therefore, there should be 21 slots allocated to Nigerian carriers.

Please correct me if I'm wrong though.

And I too thought the reason they were ending the ABV-LHR flights were due to both lack of a/c and load factors. Given that the A330 was repossessed, wasn't the 737-800 needed for the JNB flights?
 
SonomaFlyer
Posts: 1879
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:47 pm

RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:07 pm

Does the bilateral agreement specify x number of slots at LHR for Nigerian carriers? Does it stipulate a time period?

Part of the problem is Nigeria's carriers have struggled with equipment, maintenance and other issues in fully utilizing the 21 frequencies alloted under the agreement. I doubt the bilateral focuses on a particular airport, more likely it says 21 frequencies to the UK. Given LHR's been slot restricted for decades, its unlikely to state Nigerian carriers get all 21 slots at LHR and at certain times of the day.

By the same token, Nigeria is within its rights to put the squeeze on the UK for a better dispo of the slot issues at LHR. It's called politics and they are using the only leverage they have in the dispute, frequencies by British carriers to Nigerian airports which is a huge profit source.

Stay tuned.
 
anstar
Posts: 2870
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:34 pm

Quoting outbackair (Reply 41):

Not sure why they didn't lease another widebody though.

Probably because they cant pay their bills on time - which has seen other aircraft grounded at outstations.
 
B767300ER
Posts: 86
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:05 am

RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:57 pm

Re confusion over different airlines with same fligh number, not too long ago, late 1990's at TLV there was confusion
over ground control and eithe AirCanada flt.885 and TWA flt.885 that almost lead to an accident. TWA 885 was given clearence for take-off and AC flt. 885 taxing for take-off though he was given permission to turn and take off immediately.
It was the TWA captain who asked for clarification as he was holding in runway for take-off. I believe AC changed their fligh numbers to 84 and 85 to avoid conflict with TW 884 and 885.
 
jet72uk
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:14 pm

RE: BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route

Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:01 am

Why is B747forever wrong about everything?