qqflyboy
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AA Delivery Schedule

Sun Nov 06, 2011 4:40 pm

I thought many of you here may find this informaiton interesting. Specific delivery dates have been posted for the 77W fleet, along with rough monthly estimates for the 737 and A320 a/c.

77W:
Planned Nose # / Delivery Date
7LA                  Nov-12
7LB                  Dec-12
7LC                  Jan-13
7LD                  Mar-13
7LE                  Apr-13
7LF                   May-13
7LG                   Jun-13
7LH                   Jul-13

737:
2013 - 20
2014 - 20
2015 - 20
2016 - 20
2017 - 20

A320:
2013 - 20
2014 - 35
2015 - 30
2016 - 25
2017 - 20

737MAX:
2018 - 20
2019 - 20
2020 - 20
2021 - 20
2022 - 20

A320neo:
2017 - 10
2018 - 25
2019 - 25
2020 - 25
2021 - 25
2022 - 20

In addition, 76 738s were delivered in 2009-2010, and another 54 are scheduled for delivery in 2011-2013. Seven 777-200 a/c are scheduled for delivery between 2013-2016, and 42 789 a/c are scheduled for delivery beginning 4Q2014.
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Sun Nov 06, 2011 4:45 pm

Thanks for this info qq!

It's amazing how many a/c their are scheduled to take in each month. It will be interesting to see if they can handle that high number.

They'd better start ramping up the training starting in 2012.
 
The777Man
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Sun Nov 06, 2011 4:48 pm

Quoting qqflyboy (Thread starter):
42 789 a/c are scheduled for delivery beginning 4Q2014

It would be nice to see AA finally firming up this order......I guess that will happen as soon as APA ratifies the new contract ?

The777Man
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flyby519
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:33 pm

2013-2016 1 new a/c every 9 days
2017 1 new a/c every 7 days
2018-2021 1 new a/c every 8 days
2022 1 new a/c every 9 days

Damn!

[Edited 2011-11-06 09:36:13]
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PlanesNTrains
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:35 pm

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 3):

Wow, from 2013-2017 AA will be getting a new a/c (320/737) every 9 days. Damn!

Very true. However, things have a way of changing in this industry, largely due to external forces. It'll be interesting to see if they do indeed follow this delivery pattern.   I hope they do, though.

-Dave
-Dave
 
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fxramper
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:42 pm

Really appreciate the time table and information you put into this thread.   
 
LONGisland89
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:11 pm

Can't wait for the new F and J product on the 77W! I hope AA doesn't mess up this opportunity and plans for a true F suite and copies CX's new style business class seats...but I can dream. Since the first one should be coming a year from now, when can we expect to see an announcement on the new premium product(s), spring perhaps?
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:14 pm

They'd be wise to announce the 773's layout/product next spring. AA badly needs to retake the initiative and a bold product offering for biz/first similar to CX would set the tone perfectly.
 
ckfred
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:45 pm

What would also be interesting is AA's schedule for retiring the MD-80 fleet, as well as any 757s, 767-200s and 767-300s over the next 10 years.
 
BigGSFO
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:03 pm

No narrowbody deliveries in 2012 it seems...
 
AA767400
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:07 pm

Quoting qqflyboy (Thread starter):
A320:
2013 - 20
2014 - 35
2015 - 30
2016 - 25
2017 - 20

Any confirmation on specific models? It's been said that they'll be 319/321s, but no 320s correct?

Also, straight from the mother ship, the new seats on the 77W will be innovative. Tried to get a breakdown of the configuration, but source won't budge.  
"The low fares airline."
 
einsteinboricua
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:44 pm

I thought the A320s would arrive sooner. perhaps a couple by the end of 2012.
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Thrust
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:47 pm

I'm assuming the 77Ws are a reference to the 773ERs?
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
kaitak744
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:08 pm

Still waiting for the 777-200ER orders to be converted to -300ER.....
 
roseflyer
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:17 pm

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 9):
No narrowbody deliveries in 2012 it seems...

They were just not included in this announcement. AA has been getting about 2 737NGs a month since 2009 and will continue in 2012. Next delivery should be in a week.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
LAXtoATL
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:23 pm

Quoting Thrust (Reply 12):
I'm assuming the 77Ws are a reference to the 773ERs?

Yes, 77W is the code for the 777-300ER.
 
brilondon
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:25 pm

Quoting LONGisland89 (Reply 6):
Can't wait for the new F and J product on the 77W! I hope AA doesn't mess up this opportunity and plans for a true F suite and copies CX's new style business class seats...but I can dream. Since the first one should be coming a year from now, when can we expect to see an announcement on the new premium product(s), spring perhaps?

I won't hold my breath on this one, as their immediate competition DL and UA are not pushing the bar very high IMHO. I hope that AA will try to develop their product along the same way as CX and BA, but they have a long way to go and I have not heard of any upgrading along the lines of CX or BA. Please tell me if I am wrong.
Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
 
Thrust
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:38 am

I have to admit, I'm kind of disappointed I'll have to wait an additional year to al777-300ER in the AA colorscheme. I'm actually quite shocked that UA, NW or DL never expressed interest in replacing their 747 fleet with 773ERs years ago. Obviously UA has selected the A350, but DL appears interested in keeping the 747s indefinitely, even though they are flying some of the first ones ever built. The 773ER can carry nearly as many passengers over the same distance at about half the cost of a 744 (and much greater fuel efficiency as well) from what I have heard and read.
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:51 am

Quoting Thrust (Reply 17):
DL appears interested in keeping the 747s indefinitely, even though they are flying some of the first ones ever built. The 773ER can carry nearly as many passengers over the same distance at about half the cost of a 744 (and much greater fuel efficiency as well) from what I have heard and read.

Yes, but one must remember it is cheaper operate what you have (even if it is less efficient) than to buy something new. DL didn't choose the 744, they got them from NW. Since they have them now, they're making the best out of them
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
LAXtoATL
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:42 am

Quoting Thrust (Reply 17):
The 773ER can carry nearly as many passengers over the same distance at about half the cost of a 744 (and much greater fuel efficiency as well) from what I have heard and read.

You have the fuel efficiency part correct, but the cost of a 20 year old 744 is a lot less than a new 773ER (or even a used 773ER). It would be a much different cost analysis if you were purchasaing a new 744 and a new 773ER.
 
Lufthansa411
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:27 am

Quoting LAXtoATL (Reply 19):
You have the fuel efficiency part correct, but the cost of a 20 year old 744 is a lot less than a new 773ER (or even a used 773ER). It would be a much different cost analysis if you were purchasaing a new 744 and a new 773ER.

That is not entirely correct either- it depends on a lot of different variables. If the 744's in your example were maintained only to the minimum standard or with the cheapest parts available it may well be more cost effective to have new aircraft. However, if from day 1 those 747's were maintained like they were going to be staying in the fleet for 20 years, it would be cheaper to keep the 747's. Same scenario with AA. Eventually, you get to a point where older aircraft are no longer able to perform as reliably as new aircraft, and the downtime and reliability issues with them are more costly than purchasing new aircraft.
Nothing in life is to be feared; it is only to be understood.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:17 am

Quoting Lufthansa411 (Reply 20):
you get to a point

And this is where the fleet planners make their money, finding that point. Maybe DL determined they'd have the 744s in just short of the point where getting 77Ws are more efficient, and are waiting for a future date to replace the 744s with something better than the 77Ws, whatever that would be in the future. The airlines are smart, not immune to mistakes and not absent of questionable actions, but I'm sure DL researched the 744s quite extensively and have good reasons to keep them versus buying 77Ws
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
beyauty
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:54 am

This has probably been discussed before, but how is financially strapped AA going to pay/finance these huge orders?
 
PA515
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:35 pm

Quoting qqflyboy (Thread starter):
77W:
Planned Nose # / Delivery Date
7LA Nov-12
7LB Dec-12
7LC Jan-13
7LD Mar-13
7LE Apr-13
7LF May-13
7LG Jun-13
7LH Jul-13

Thanks for the info, and has there been any mention of 77W options?

Also, are the 'nose numbers' an abbreviation of the registration, like N1777LA for instance, and has the FAA considered a three or four letter registration sequence in addition to the numbers plus two letters?

PA515
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:14 pm

They are internal AA hull numbers, or ship numbers but I guess you could call them nose numbers. AA usually uses a one or two number and one or two letters in their 3 degit number system to track individual airplanes. Many airlines use a similar system although some may just use the registration number, shortened to a 3 charicter sequence.

For AA, their system is (the first number);

"3" is for the B-767-300ER
"7" is for the B-777-200ER/-300ER (the -200ER starts with "77" then a letter).

I don't remember the rest.
 
elmothehobo
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:38 pm

Quoting beyauty (Reply 22):
This has probably been discussed before, but how is financially strapped AA going to pay/finance these huge orders?

Airbus and Boeing helped line up financing for American, both internally and externally. American also developed a cozy relationship with General Electric. Over the past year they've ordered the 77W (when the 777NGs were launched American refused to order them because they were not available with RR powerplants), they chose GE to power their 787s, they switched the in-flight programming from CBS to then GE owned NBC (GE still owned 49% of NBC Universal) they just ordered 460 GE-powered narrowbodies, and GE financed either the most recent 738 order or the 787 order.
 
LAXtoATL
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:42 pm

Quoting Lufthansa411 (Reply 20):
That is not entirely correct either- it depends on a lot of different variables. If the 744's in your example were maintained only to the minimum standard or with the cheapest parts available it may well be more cost effective to have new aircraft. However, if from day 1 those 747's were maintained like they were going to be staying in the fleet for 20 years, it would be cheaper to keep the 747's. Same scenario with AA. Eventually, you get to a point where older aircraft are no longer able to perform as reliably as new aircraft, and the downtime and reliability issues with them are more costly than purchasing new aircraft.

You are correct.

Quoting beyauty (Reply 22):
This has probably been discussed before, but how is financially strapped AA going to pay/finance these huge orders?

Yes it has been discussed to death on here. Both Airbus and Boeing provided incentives to lessors who will be purchasing the planes and then leasing them to AA. The hope is that the new planes are so much more efficient (fuel and maintance)than the planes they retire that the operational cost savings will come close to if not exceed the operating lease payments they will have to make for these new planes.
 
MCO2BRS
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:11 pm

Has AA not firmed up their 787-9 orders yet? I've not really been following this, and would have thought the 787 would be included in such a schedule.

Cheers,

MCO 2 BRS
 
LAXtoATL
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:28 pm

Quoting MCO2BRS (Reply 27):
Has AA not firmed up their 787-9 orders yet? I've not really been following this, and would have thought the 787 would be included in such a schedule.

Not firmed yet. Hinges on negotiating a pay scale with the union to operate that type. The purchase agreement with Boeing gives AA up until 18months prior to scheduled aircraft delivery date or whenever a payscale is negotiated with the pilot's union (whichever comes first) to firm up the deal.

* the 18months may not be the exact timeframe, that is the number stuck in my head which may not be acurate but it is something like that.
 
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yyz717
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:52 pm

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 10):
Any confirmation on specific models? It's been said that they'll be 319/321s, but no 320s correct?

According to aerotransport.org, all 130 firm are for the A321-200 (these are the non-neo on order).

Quoting Thrust (Reply 17):
Obviously UA has selected the A350

Given CO's preference for Boeing, I wonder if this order will proceed.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
LONGisland89
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:55 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 24):
"7" is for the B-777-200ER/-300ER (the -200ER starts with "77" then a letter).

Sorry to nitpick, but all AA's 200ERs begin with one 7 not two. For example, 7AJ, 7BF, 7CB, etc.
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:16 pm

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 29):
Given CO's preference for Boeing, I wonder if this order will proceed

UA has stated more than once they are staying with their 359 orders. Their stated intention is to replace their 744 fleet.
 
realsim
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:04 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 24):
For AA, their system is (the first number);

"3" is for the B-767-300ER
"7" is for the B-777-200ER/-300ER (the -200ER starts with "77" then a letter).

I don't remember the rest.

Internal fleet numbers for AA are:

- 251 to 293: MD-80
- 318 to 339: B767-200ER
- 342 to 399: B767-300ER
- 401 to 587: MD-80
- 610 to 643: B757-200

- 3AA to 3HL: B737-800
- 7AA to 7CE: B777-200ER
- 5BR to 5FT: B757-200

The fleet number is included in the registration (for example, N251AA for fleet number 251) in all the fleet numbers which do not contain any letter.
 
jfkgig
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:10 pm

Quoting beyauty (Reply 22):
This has probably been discussed before, but how is financially strapped AA going to pay/finance these huge orders?

35 of the first 737-800s are part of a sale-leaseback transaction with Aercap Lease Finance. Aercap has itself already arranged a credit facility with a consortium of banks, led by Credit Agricole, and has also sold its AeroTurbine unit to ILFC, to finance this transaction.

AA has been working closely with Aercap, and I think its likely that much of the fleet expansion will be arranged through them, or in similar deals with other lease finance companies.
 
AA767400
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:29 pm

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 29):
According to aerotransport.org, all 130 firm are for the A321-200 (these are the non-neo on order).

Really? I find that hard to believe, but hey, who knows. On pictures from the press release, they show 319s and 321s. I know that's not saying much, but we'll have to see how it plays out. I can see a mix of 319s/738s/321s to cover routes based on need. Of course a nice E190 fleet would help fill the gap that AA currently has in it's fleet. Maybe with this next contract...
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flyby519
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:55 pm

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 34):
Of course a nice E190 fleet would help fill the gap that AA currently has in it's fleet. Maybe with this next contract...

Looks like the DFW airport and AMR are in the planning stage for 100 seaters:

http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/11...a-new-dfw-airport-takes-shape.html


There are plans for a possible nine-gate expansion for Eagle in Terminal B that could be used by 100-seat jets.

"We're putting on our planning hats to start working on the footprint, the dynamics for all of these things behind the scenes," said Jim Crites, executive vice president of operations.
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ckfred
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:02 pm

Does anyone know what the rough configuration will be for the A319s and the A321s? I know that AA has mentioned putting some off the A321s in a 3-class configuration, to replace the 767-200ERs flying transcons. It seems to me that the A319s are a little smaller than the MD-80s. Could they have a First and Coach seat count similar to AA's 727-100s (I think they were 8F 117Y)? I would assume that the 2-class A321s will be similar to the 757 seat count of 22F and 166Y.
 
commavia
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:31 am

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 34):
Really? I find that hard to believe, but hey, who knows. On pictures from the press release, they show 319s and 321s. I know that's not saying much, but we'll have to see how it plays out. I can see a mix of 319s/738s/321s to cover routes based on need.

I, too, find it hard to believe. I suppose AA could get the first batch of 130 Airbus aircraft as non-NEO A321s, and then make the second batch, say, 130 NEO A319s. But that's hard for me to believe, for several reasons.

First, while I agree that the 757s are probably a fairly pressing need for replacement, I doubt AA will need 130 A321s to replace the ~120 757s. Some of the 757 missions will likely go to 737s.

Second, if - as press releases have suggested - AA's Airbus order will be comprised of A319s and A321s, I suspect the NEOs would be far more valuable on the A321s than the A319s. The A321s are, today, in their non-NEO configuration, more range-limited (i.e., can't always do year-round, two-way transcon), and generally flying longer, more fuel-intensive missions.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 36):
Does anyone know what the rough configuration will be for the A319s and the A321s?

The A319 will probably be around 125 seats - smaller than the MD80, 3 flight attendants. I wouldn't be surprised to see to see the A319 somewhere in the range of F12Y112 (same as USAirways' configuration). As for the A321, it will be smaller of course than the present 757, but if AA follows its usual pattern of having a somewhat larger-than-competitors F cabin, I wouldn't be surprised to see something like F20Y154 (Air Canada's configuration).

Quoting ckfred (Reply 36):
I know that AA has mentioned putting some off the A321s in a 3-class configuration, to replace the 767-200ERs flying transcons.


We'll see if the 762s end up getting replaced with A321s, 739s, or something else. AA executives first made comments to the effect that the 762s would be replaced wit a narrowbody directly, but later Horton seemed to back away from that and say that they're still working it out.
 
mrskyguy
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:38 am

Quoting ckfred (Reply 36):
Does anyone know what the rough configuration will be for the A319s and the A321s? I know that AA has mentioned putting some off the A321s in a 3-class configuration, to replace the 767-200ERs flying transcons. It seems to me that the A319s are a little smaller than the MD-80s.

That hasn't been settled upon yet by AMR (internally-speaking).
"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee." -- Gunter's 2nd Law of Air
 
brilondon
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:31 am

Quoting commavia (Reply 37):
As for the A321, it will be smaller of course than the present 757, but if AA follows its usual pattern of having a somewhat larger-than-competitors F cabin, I wouldn't be surprised to see something like F20Y154 (Air Canada's configuration).

Does the A321 have the range of the 757's AA uses on its Hawaii and thin TATL routes?
Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
 
PPVRA
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:47 am

Quoting qqflyboy (Thread starter):
737MAX:
2018 - 20
2019 - 20
2020 - 20
2021 - 20
2022 - 20

A320neo:
2017 - 10
2018 - 25
2019 - 25
2020 - 25
2021 - 25
2022 - 20

This interest of ours called aviation requires a lot of patience, doesn't it?      
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
r2rho
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RE: AA Delivery Schedule

Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:09 pm

Thanks for the info, that really is a massive fleet upgrade in a relatively short timeframe. No wonder the narrowbody order was split up between A&B. Any info on the retirement schedule for older a/c? Would be interesting to compare the two to each other.