YVRSpeedBird
Topic Author
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VS Announces YVR

Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:24 pm

http://www.vancouversun.com/business...ancouver+London/5665015/story.html

I know this has been discussed lots in the past, but here it is finally! Long time coming or too little too late?
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19046
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RE: VS Announces YVR

Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:44 pm

They should have tried YYZ again. YVR is a much lower-yield market with little business traffic in contrast with YYZ. Their previous brief effort at YYZ failed due to bad timing (9/11) but also because it operated to LGW. With service to LHR it would be much more successful.
 
KLAXAirport
Posts: 159
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:14 pm

RE: VS Announces YVR

Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:02 pm

Good news for YVR!
How many airlines operate from YVR to LHR? Is this a competitive market VS just entered?

Cheers
KLAXAirport   
 
Viscount724
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RE: VS Announces YVR

Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:05 pm

Quoting KLAXAirport (Reply 4):
How many airlines operate from YVR to LHR?

AC and BA.
 
Whiteguy
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RE: VS Announces YVR

Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:06 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 3):
They should have tried YYZ again. YVR is a much lower-yield market with little business traffic in contrast with YYZ. Their previous brief effort at YYZ failed due to bad timing (9/11) but also because it operated to LGW. With service to LHR it would be much more successful.

They may be thinking YVR is underserved compared to YYZ. YYZ has 4 flights a day just with AC and 2 or 3 with BA during the summer. YVR has a single daily 77W with AC and 1 or 2 flights with BA.
 
connector4you
Posts: 768
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RE: VS Announces YVR

Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:40 pm

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 6):
They may be thinking YVR is underserved compared to YYZ.

yep, the return fare of $1,700 CAD and up between Vancouver and London Heathrow tells the story.
 
skipness1E
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RE: VS Announces YVR

Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:47 pm

Quoting KLAXAirport (Reply 4):
How many airlines operate from YVR to LHR? Is this a competitive market VS just entered?

Daily AC B77W, and 12 per week on BA B744. Somehow the thought of 4 weekly A340-300s doing anything more than taking the leisure traffic is laughable.
However the market IS price sensitive given the presence of Thomas Cook and Air Transat remember so if they're not going in on price and they're not daily, it's going to be an odd situation. Mind you if they still have eight A330s to add in the next year they're going to have to fly them. IF.
 
fcogafa
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RE: VS Announces YVR

Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:50 pm

The next question is, does it replace some other route and what about the other 3 days a week?
 
sevenheavy
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RE: VS Announces YVR

Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:53 pm

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 9):

The same slot is used for an additional 3x weekly SFO service.

The A343 is coming from a route that will be operated by an A343. Possibly ORD but there is a bit of shuffling still to do.

The A333's are definately all coming. Not all for expansion though.....
So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
 
yvrsr
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RE: VS Announces YVR

Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:58 pm

Just some context, here is the rough schedule:

In winter:

Air Canada: Daily A330
British Airways: Daily B747
May be a couple of flights a week by Air Transit

In summer

Air Canada: Daily 77W
British Airwasy: Twice Daily B747 (in recent years 2nd flight has operated 5 or 6 times a week only)
Probably 7 - 10 additional flight per week Vancouver - Britain by Air Transat, Thomas Cook, charter carriers

Vancouver is not a major business destination when compared to other cities and there is a huge difference between the winter and summer in number of people going through the airport.

VS plans on 4 flights per week in Summer 2012, which is the Olympics year. It will interesting to see if the flight can be last into the winter and beyond.
 
skipness1E
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RE: VS Announces YVR

Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:35 pm

Quoting sevenheavy (Reply 10):
The A343 is coming from a route that will be operated by an A343. Possibly ORD but there is a bit of shuffling still to do.
The A333's are definately all coming. Not all for expansion though.....

If you're taking all eight aircraft then how many A346s / B744s are going? There is no way on Earth that VS need that amount of capacity for next summer. BTW : "The A343 is coming from a route that will be operated by an A343."
Do you mean is going up to an A346?
 
sevenheavy
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RE: VS Announces YVR

Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:42 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 12):

Sorry, typo. The current A343 route will be operated by an A333.
So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
 
gilesdavies
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RE: VS Announces YVR

Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:30 pm

Good news for Vancouver, with Thomas Cook no longer flying the route next summer and only leaving Air Transat flying the route to LGW on charters, they maybe able to get some customers from them...

The comments Tony Gugliotta from YVR airport said in the Vancouver Sun article... “It’s a world-class airline with a tremendous reputation. We feel it will create about 50 jobs a year, about $3 million in wages.” If only he had flown on the A340-300 in recent years and may not have said that!

Those aircraft are so tired and in need of a major overhaul.
 
YXXMIKE
Posts: 166
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RE: VS Announces YVR

Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:36 pm

Quoting yvrsr (Reply 11):
VS plans on 4 flights per week in Summer 2012, which is the Olympics year. It will interesting to see if the flight can be last into the winter and beyond.

If they can attract tour business going onto the cruise ships then they'll certainly have some good business, but they'll want to do some serious work with tour companies for this to work well. In the winter, they would have to do something similar with the ski resorts and mainly Whistler. If they can achieve a decent margin and high volume then maybe winter could also work. Also depends if the conference market in Vancouver continues to grow as that provides a lot of year round business to the city.

The YVR - LON market has been far more saturated before, remember it wasn't long ago that: BA - AC - ZOOM - Thomas Cook - Air Transat all operated metal between the two cities and in the summer it was twice daily with a 744 for BA. Obviously it was overkill but this could work out if they can come in with the right price, product and achieve partnerships in and around Vancouver.
 
planesailing
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RE: VS Announces YVR

Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:41 pm

Cruises shouldn't be a problem, VH has a cruise division now which already puts a lot of bums on seats for the Caribbean routes ex LGW.
 
ACDC8
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RE: VS Announces YVR

Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:12 pm

Quoting connector4you (Reply 7):
yep, the return fare of $1,700 CAD and up between Vancouver and London Heathrow tells the story.

I've never paid a $1700 return fare on either AC or BA for a YVR-LHR ticket ... I've never paid more than $1200.

Good news for YVR for sure, I've been wanting to try VS for many years, just have to see how their onward connections from LHR are.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
Whiteguy
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RE: VS Announces YVR

Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:25 pm

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 17):
Quoting connector4you (Reply 7):
yep, the return fare of $1,700 CAD and up between Vancouver and London Heathrow tells the story.

I've never paid a $1700 return fare on either AC or BA for a YVR-LHR ticket ... I've never paid more than $1200.

Good news for YVR for sure, I've been wanting to try VS for many years, just have to see how their onward connections from LHR are.

If your booking now for July next year, yes you will be paying around $1700 round trip on AC.

If you wait it'll be less, looking towards the end of Nov you can go for $1200.

But really, $1700 hundred isn't that bad for flying 7600 kms in 9 and half hours!
 
ACDC8
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RE: VS Announces YVR

Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:45 pm

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 18):
If your booking now for July next year, yes you will be paying around $1700 round trip on AC.

If you wait it'll be less, looking towards the end of Nov you can go for $1200.

My bad, I usually book for Spring and Fall, so I guess $1700 for summertime sounds about right.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
Context
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RE: VS Announces YVR

Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:14 am

Finally a member   

I'm actually a little sad for this announcement. SEA is my home airport and I've always hoped VS would visit. I even thought it might happen when VS announced SEA was in consideration upon delivery of their 787s. Insult to injury came with the DL/AF announcement further limiting the variety of tails and ending the last A340 service at SEA (SAS first, then the seasonal AF A343).

Do you think its reasonable to believe that YVR service necessarily excludes service to SEA?

Best wishes to VS at YVR!
(I'm sure your pax will find the arrival procedure MUCH more accommodating than they might have at SEA   )
 
connector4you
Posts: 768
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RE: VS Announces YVR

Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:53 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 17):
I've never paid a $1700 return fare on either AC or BA for a YVR-LHR ticket ... I've never paid more than $1200

Prediction: by January 2012 when the fare could go as high as CAN 1,900 and above, Air France will jump in and sadly you'll be grounded all year around.

Just kidding   
 
threepoint
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RE: VS Announces YVR

Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:21 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 17):
My bad, I usually book for Spring and Fall, so I guess $1700 for summertime sounds about right.

One can find summertime fares YVR-LHR well under $1700 on AC if you keep an eye on their websaver announcements.
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
Luftymatt
Posts: 382
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RE: VS Announces YVR

Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:29 am

Nice to see VS expanding and adding a Canadian destination   I'm sure the route will do well. Without the intense competition on the YYZ route, there is more chance it will succeed.
chase the sun
 
ACT7
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:27 pm

RE: VS Announces YVR

Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:05 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 1):
They should have tried YYZ again. YVR is a much lower-yield market with little business traffic in contrast with YYZ. Their previous brief effort at YYZ failed due to bad timing (9/11) but also because it operated to LGW. With service to LHR it would be much more successful.

I agree. The fact that AC has never attempted to increase capacity on the YVR-LHR route and the fact that BA will still capture more of the higher yield business market, makes me wonder what the logic behind VS's
 
Whiteguy
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RE: VS Announces YVR

Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:36 pm

Quoting ACT7 (Reply 22):
I agree. The fact that AC has never attempted to increase capacity on the YVR-LHR route and the fact that BA will still capture more of the higher yield business market, makes me wonder what the logic behind VS's

AC increases capacity every summer, a B77W is added now every summer compared to an A333 in the winter. A couple of summers ago a second flight was added running 4 or 5 days a week until enough B77Ws were in the fleet.
 
connector4you
Posts: 768
Joined: Wed May 16, 2001 10:27 am

RE: VS Announces YVR

Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:00 pm

Quoting threepoint (Reply 20):
One can find summertime fares YVR-LHR well under $1700 on AC if you keep an eye on their websaver announcements.

So last minute web-fare with Air Canada could actually be cheaper than a six month advanced booking? Why would that be?

I thought that's something peculiar to regular charters like Airtransat, Thomas Cook, MyTravel, etc
 
ACT7
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RE: VS Announces YVR

Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:22 pm

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 23):
AC increases capacity every summer, a B77W is added now every summer compared to an A333 in the winter. A couple of summers ago a second flight was added running 4 or 5 days a week until enough B77Ws were in the fleet.

Increasing capacity by 80 seats is very different than adding a 4 times weekly rotation with a 343. The tourist market is very low yield and YVR does not attract the business traffic that YYZ does, so it's a peculiar decision as a first Canadian destination.
 
fly2yyz
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RE: VS Announces YVR

Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:24 pm

Lets see how this affects charters like TS who are flying the route 5x per week using 332s
 
something
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RE: VS Announces YVR

Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:45 am

VS is still mostly a holiday airline. YYZ seems overserved as it is, plus we don't know if they could get the slots they'd need there.

B.C. enjoys a fantastic reputation here in Europe and I am pretty sure the flight will complement some of Virgin holiday's package tours and is not mainly aimed at business travellers. Virgin thinks they have the tourists, and are now making a way to bring these tourists there. I don't think of the route as a strategical move to strengthen their business traveller network.

That being said, I think YYZ is quite overserved as it is anyway. The market may be bigger than YVR, and it may yield higher business traveller volumes than YVR, but how much of that would VS be able to capture?
..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
 
threepoint
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RE: VS Announces YVR

Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:59 am

Quoting connector4you (Reply 24):
So last minute web-fare with Air Canada could actually be cheaper than a six month advanced booking? Why would that be?

I'd hesitate to try to pretend that I have the faintest inkling on how fare pricing works. I honestly have no clue, nor have I figured out the rhyme or reason for periodic seat sales to popular destinations. But they exist...
I'm sure we can assume the opposite will happen near the Olympic dates.
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
ACT7
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:27 pm

RE: VS Announces YVR

Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:56 am

Quoting something (Reply 27):
That being said, I think YYZ is quite overserved as it is anyway. The market may be bigger than YVR, and it may yield higher business traveller volumes than YVR, but how much of that would VS be able to capture?

I would argue that YYZ is not overserved, but certainly well served. VS may have a harder time capturing the higher yielding business traffic at YYZ but they do have a pretty good J and Y class product to offer. It's their route network beyond LHR that is not as developed as BA and Star Alliance. I'm still not sure that O&D traffic (because this is obviously what VS is trying to attract) between YVR and LHR warrants an additional 4 weekly flights - even in peak summer months. I guess time will tell.
 
YVRLTN
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RE: VS Announces YVR

Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:08 am

Wow, whats with these long standing rumors coming about. First CZ, now VS - what next, IT??!!  

Personally, Im stoked.

Quoting threepoint (Reply 20):
One can find summertime fares YVR-LHR well under $1700 on AC if you keep an eye on their websaver announcements.

I havent found these in 2-3 years, or if there is a decent fare its usually with some return flight that is completely useless to you or routes via YYZ or YYC.

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 16):
But really, $1700 hundred isn't that bad for flying 7600 kms in 9 and half hours!

Sad fact is, I just paid $750 with TS (Canadian Affair). Multiply by two, and I will endure TS. And for the average leisure traveller in the present economy who are paying for the tickets with their hard earned savings, guess what most would choose! Will be interesting to see where they pitch their prices. I would willingly pay a premium to fly to LHR vs LGW, just for geographic location in London to my parents house, but $1900 is too much to ask.

Rumor also has it YVR is going to be an early BA A380 destination. As the 2x 744's are full in summer in all classes, it would seem to be an increase in capacity if it happens.

Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 13):
Thomas Cook - Air Transat all operated metal between the two cities

Just to clarify various post on TS and Thomas Cook. Both fly for the tour company Canadian Affair. In the past the traffic was split fairly evenly between the two carriers (with ZB also chipping in to YYC). This past summer all YVR - UK flying was done by TCX, with TS doing the rest of Europe. From W11 (next week), TS will be taking over all the flying, and the TCX A332's are transferring to TS.

I assume TCX will continue east coast 757 flying next summer, unless this all goes TS A310 as they are freed up with more A330 arrivals, of which there have been a few outside of the TCX ones coming on board.

Good luck to VS - will certainly welcome them here, even if only for my   
Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
 
Thenoflyzone
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Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

RE: VS Announces YVR

Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:29 am

Quoting yvrsr (Reply 9):
It will interesting to see if the flight can be last into the winter and beyond.

It wont. Its a seasonal flight. May24th to Oct 25th.

Prediction. The flight will return for 2013, but will be axed for 2014.

nothing like going against the grain....!

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2011-11-07 19:30:08]
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
ACT7
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:27 pm

RE: VS Announces YVR

Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:48 am

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 31):
It wont. Its a seasonal flight. May24th to Oct 25th.

Prediction. The flight will return for 2013, but will be axed for 2014.

nothing like going against the grain....!

I second that...
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7205
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: VS Announces YVR

Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:14 am

What are VSs onward connections like? I couldn't find any codeshare partners for intra-Europe but what about connecting VS flights to India?

Thats the only thing I'm quite hessitant about flying VS to LHR, my onward connections to Germany would have to be a seperate booking.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 30):
Rumor also has it YVR is going to be an early BA A380 destination

  

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 31):
Prediction. The flight will return for 2013, but will be axed for 2014.

nothing like going against the grain....!

Blasphemy!  
Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 30):

I havent found these in 2-3 years, or if there is a decent fare its usually with some return flight that is completely useless to you or routes via YYZ or YYC.

I just paid $1150 with BA, AC was $1100 and KL was $1050, mind you these were October departures.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
YXXMIKE
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:44 am

RE: VS Announces YVR

Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:19 am

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 31):

It wont. Its a seasonal flight. May24th to Oct 25th.

Prediction. The flight will return for 2013, but will be axed for 2014.

nothing like going against the grain....!

What's that famous English song "always look on the bright side of life...."

Anyway, I think that could be true but if they do have strong business connections with a couple of the major cruise lines then it's an airline that may continue if the margins and the loads are there. The cruise ship business is certainly not a guarantee in Vancouver but it's certainly not bad to have on the resume, so if they can build a mix of tourism/leisure traffic on both ends and supplement it with cruise ship then it could wok. You never know...
 
connector4you
Posts: 768
Joined: Wed May 16, 2001 10:27 am

RE: VS Announces YVR

Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:05 am

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 31):
Prediction. The flight will return for 2013, but will be axed for 2014.

Wow, your prediction sounds like a war price it's imminent now.
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 2312
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

RE: VS Announces YVR

Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:48 pm

Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 34):
What's that famous English song "always look on the bright side of life...."

Wasn't it called "always look at the dark side of life" ?

Quoting connector4you (Reply 35):
Wow, your prediction sounds like a war price it's imminent now.

Be it as it may, i think YVR to LON is well served, especially during the summer. My opinion is that VS, seeing as they were interested in opening up YVR, are now hopping on for the possible influx of tourists for the olympics. As soon as that's over with, the market will not be as interesting.

Thenoflyzone
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7205
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: VS Announces YVR

Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:43 am

Found the schedule posted ...

http://airlineroute.net/2011/11/08/vs-sfoyvr-s12/

London Heathrow – Vancouver
VS095 LHR1300 – 1510YVR 343 x135
VS096 YVR1950 – 1345+1LHR 343 x135

Leaves YVR one hour earlier than BA084 but leaves LHR almost 2 hours earlier than BA085 with a 3 hour and 40 minute layover in YVR. And the LHR-YVR flight leaves LHR 45 minutes before the flight from YVR gets into LHR so obviously they won't be using the same aircraft on days 6 and 7.

Speaking of which, on what day does the schedule calander start? I'm assuming "x135" means no flights on Monday, Wednesday and Friday?
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
connector4you
Posts: 768
Joined: Wed May 16, 2001 10:27 am

RE: VS Announces YVR

Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:30 pm

And another observation note to the above schedule, both VS flights to SFO and YVR are leaving and arriving back to LHR at the same time on the same days of the week. VS's aircraft at YVR is to be on the ground for 4 hours and 40 minutes before the returning leg to LHR !

Makes one wonder if VS is pondering to connect some of these pax originating in YVR and SFO to perhaps another unannounced yet destination beyond LHR ?



London Heathrow – San Francisco
VS041 LHR1300 – 1650SFO 343 135
VS042 SFO1850 – 1345+1LHR 343 135
 
skipness1E
Posts: 3397
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

RE: VS Announces YVR

Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:44 pm

Quoting connector4you (Reply 38):
Makes one wonder if VS is pondering to connect some of these pax originating in YVR and SFO to perhaps another unannounced yet destination beyond LHR ?

No they have to arrive at the same time, they used 7 slot pairs and didn't introduce a daily service.
Remember 8 A333s spare for next summer......
 
skipness1E
Posts: 3397
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

RE: VS Announces YVR

Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:05 pm

Worryingly, the new VS service to Vancouver is not actually an option on the website here in the UK and the second SFO has not been loaded!
 
sevenheavy
Posts: 927
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:30 am

RE: VS Announces YVR

Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:12 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 40):
Worryingly, the new VS service to Vancouver is not actually an option on the website here in the UK and the second SFO has not been loaded!

It will be. It was only announced to the public 4 days ago!. Hardly unusual.
So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
 
skipness1E
Posts: 3397
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

RE: VS Announces YVR

Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:03 pm

Quoting sevenheavy (Reply 41):
It will be. It was only announced to the public 4 days ago!. Hardly unusual.

That's my point. New service, lots of publicity, people investigate booking, not available.....
It's marketing strategy 1-01, only market what is available or caveat it with a "Will be bookable from : "
 
sevenheavy
Posts: 927
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:30 am

RE: VS Announces YVR

Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:23 pm

At the risk of getting drawn in to micro analysing something of a non event, this is nonetheless nothing unusual.

I (perhaps mistakenly, but justifiably given the number of "they will never start the route" predictions that came out within hours of the announcement) interpreted your post as speculation that VS were having second thoughts already. I was simply responding that this was not the case.

In any event a few minutes of googling revealed a number of routes by a number of airlines that were announced in some cases months before being bookable.

I could be wrong but I believe that the official public press release has yet to be made. It was leaked through an interview with Steve RIdgway by one of the Sunday papers. I think anyone who had actually picked up on the info would be smart enough to realise that the news was hot off the press and would check back in a couple of days. If someone was so desperate to fly VS they wouldn't be so easily put off
So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
 
1stfl94
Posts: 1082
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RE: VS Announces YVR

Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:41 pm

Interesting that when VS ordered the A330s they were talking of adding Cancun, Vancouver and Beijing. With two out of those three now on the way, might PEK be on the cards?

Does seem surprising that VS are running YVR as summer only though, I would have the holiday traffic was more winter based?
 
slinky09
Posts: 594
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 5:03 pm

RE: VS Announces YVR

Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:00 pm

Quoting sevenheavy (Reply 43):
I could be wrong but I believe that the official public press release has yet to be made. It was leaked through an interview with Steve RIdgway by one of the Sunday papers.

Except for the fact that VS announced this on their Facebook page ...
 
skipness1E
Posts: 3397
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

RE: VS Announces YVR

Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:07 pm

So are some of the A340s going back next Spring? Surely someone must know...