mattya9
Topic Author
Posts: 140
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:36 pm

Tokyo Haneda's New RWY

Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:24 am

Looks like a nice new runway Tokyo's Haneda airport has built. But I'm curious why half of it has grass around the TWY's and RWY's and the other half is all concrete? Not a big deal but does anyone know why they built it this way? Here's the picture...

http://www.airliners.net/photo//2010356/L/
"You can do anything once."
 
point2point
Posts: 2080
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:54 pm

RE: Tokyo Haneda's New RWY

Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:39 am

Quoting mattya9 (Thread starter):
But I'm curious why half of it has grass around the TWY's and RWY's and the other half is all concrete?

I don't know if this is the right answer, but the green maybe makes the environmentalists happy, for whatever reason?

Okay,    ... that probably isn't the right answer.

Anyhow, just want to say that it is a nice looking runway in the green part. To bad the whole runway isn't surrounded with the green.  
 
PITrules
Posts: 2109
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2000 11:27 am

RE: Tokyo Haneda's New RWY

Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:48 am

Looking at the picture, it appears the all concrete section is built on pier/stilts, negating the need or ability for grass to grow in that area; while the other section seems to be built on land fill - allowing for grass to grow.

Why this was done this way I have no idea.
FLYi
 
jsnww81
Posts: 2294
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 3:29 am

RE: Tokyo Haneda's New RWY

Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:39 pm

The new runway is built partially over a river estuary (where the river feeds into Tokyo Bay). Fisherman and fishing interests were arguing that it would disrupt currents in the bay, driving away fish and disrupting their livelihood.

As a compromise, the portion of the runway over the mouth of the river was built on piers, which allows the water to flow *under* the runway rather than *around* it. As PITrules said, grass was only planted on the part of the runway made from landfill, which is located entirely in Tokyo Bay away from the river.
 
DiscoverCSG
Posts: 517
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:22 am

RE: Tokyo Haneda's New RWY

Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:48 pm

In other words, it's the part that's NOT green that makes the environmentalists happy.  

What a project.
 
cloudyapple
Posts: 1261
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 7:01 am

RE: Tokyo Haneda's New RWY

Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:09 pm

Also you cannot land in 05. The approach would have been over the city which means noise problems. So that's why they were able to build it on stilts as it does not need to take the impact from landing aircraft, which would require significant strengthening of the structure.
A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
 
ASA
Posts: 1002
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:12 pm

RE: Tokyo Haneda's New RWY

Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:22 pm

Quoting discoverCSG (Reply 4):
In other words, it's the part that's NOT green that makes the environmentalists happy.

GREEN = UNHAPPY environmentalists ... lol 
Quoting cloudyapple (Reply 5):



Also you cannot land in 05. The approach would have been over the city which means noise problems. So that's why they were able to build it on stilts as it does not need to take the impact from landing aircraft, which would require significant strengthening of the structure.

so this is a take-off only runway?!!  Wow! is this common - i think i'm hearing this for the first time?
 
ScottB
Posts: 5414
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: Tokyo Haneda's New RWY

Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:31 pm

Quoting ASA (Reply 6):
so this is a take-off only runway?!! Wow! is this common - i think i'm hearing this for the first time?

Presumably what that means is that landings are only permitted in the 23 direction, not the 05 direction.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13730
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: Tokyo Haneda's New RWY

Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:32 pm

Quoting cloudyapple (Reply 5):
Also you cannot land in 05. The approach would have been over the city which means noise problems. So that's why they were able to build it on stilts as it does not need to take the impact from landing aircraft, which would require significant strengthening of the structure.

I'm sure light aircraft could land on it no problem. Any aircraft where the landing impact force is equal or lower to the static load from a heavy.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Rbgso
Posts: 288
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:15 pm

RE: Tokyo Haneda's New RWY

Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:46 pm

Quoting cloudyapple (Reply 5):
Also you cannot land in 05.

That would explain the lack of high speed taxiways on Rwy 5.
 
amccann
Posts: 121
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 9:14 pm

RE: Tokyo Haneda's New RWY

Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:52 pm

Quoting cloudyapple (Reply 5):
Also you cannot land in 05.

It makes sense to prohibit "heavy" aircraft from landing on runway 05, but based on the runway markings it does appear they are going to permit "light" aircraft landing on runway 05. No sense in painting distance markers or touch down markers on runway 05 if they are never going to be used.

Does anyone know the total length of the new runway 05/23?
What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. - Ronald Reagan
 
mk777
Posts: 888
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:48 am

RE: Tokyo Haneda's New RWY

Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:01 pm

Quoting amccann (Reply 10):
Does anyone know the total length of the new runway 05/23?

its 2500m just like rwy 4/22, the 16s are around 3000m
come fly with me
 
amccann
Posts: 121
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 9:14 pm

RE: Tokyo Haneda's New RWY

Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:50 pm

Quoting mk777 (Reply 11):
its 2500m just like rwy 4/22, the 16s are around 3000m

Wow, I'm a little surprised the longest runways at Haneda are 3000m, seems a little short for a major international airport. I guess a 3500m runway isn't needed when the airport elevation is "sea level."

[Edited 2011-11-07 13:50:53]
What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. - Ronald Reagan
 
ScottB
Posts: 5414
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: Tokyo Haneda's New RWY

Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:31 pm

Quoting amccann (Reply 12):
I'm a little surprised the longest runways at Haneda are 3000m, seems a little short for a major international airport.

HND isn't quite a major international airport; the vast majority of traffic is domestic. NRT was intended to be the primary international airport for the Kanto region.
 
amccann
Posts: 121
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 9:14 pm

RE: Tokyo Haneda's New RWY

Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:47 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 13):
HND isn't quite a major international airport

Regardless of the definition of a "major international airport" my point still stands, the airport serves destinations far away on relatively short runways.

For example, it serves London, Paris, Detroit, Los Angeles, New York, San Francisco, and Vancouver utilizing 2 500 and 3 000 meter runways.
http://www.haneda-airport.jp/inter/en/flight/city_list.html
What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. - Ronald Reagan
 
je89_w
Crew
Posts: 2070
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 1:29 pm

RE: Tokyo Haneda's New RWY

Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:35 am

This new runway has already been opened from at least February this year. Might I add that the taxi time from the International Terminal to runway 05 took ages, but we got a nice comprehensive tour of HND at the same time!

[Edited 2011-11-07 16:41:31]
 
Carpethead
Posts: 2563
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:15 pm

RE: Tokyo Haneda's New RWY

Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:37 am

The new runway is an uni-directional runway. Landings on 23 and take-offs on 5.

Quoting amccann (Reply 14):
For example, it serves London, Paris, Detroit, Los Angeles, New York, San Francisco, and Vancouver utilizing 2 500 and 3 000 meter runways.

Minor correction.
Vancouver service never started. Both Detroit & New York service are suspended at the moment.
Add Frankfurt next February.

Quoting je89_w (Reply 15):
This new runway has already been opened from at least February this year. Might I add that the taxi time from the International Terminal to runway 05 took ages, but we got a nice comprehensive tour of HND at the same time!

It actually opened October last year.
And it still takes ages to reach Runway 5 from the Int'l terminal.  
 
cloudyapple
Posts: 1261
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 7:01 am

RE: Tokyo Haneda's New RWY

Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:13 am

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 8):
I'm sure light aircraft could land on it no problem. Any aircraft where the landing impact force is equal or lower to the static load from a heavy.

https://aisjapan.mlit.go.jp/html/AIP/html/20111117/eAIP/20111117/JP-AD-2-RJTT-en-JP.html?#RJTT-AD-2.13
It's not used for landing at all, full stop.
There are no approach lights, PAPI or ILS. There is no LDA defined.

Quoting amccann (Reply 10):
It makes sense to prohibit "heavy" aircraft from landing on runway 05, but based on the runway markings it does appear they are going to permit "light" aircraft landing on runway 05.

Don't know why there are these markings.

Quoting amccann (Reply 12):
Wow, I'm a little surprised the longest runways at Haneda are 3000m, seems a little short for a major international airport.

Not if it is a landing only runway.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 13):
HND isn't quite a major international airport

Haneda is officially Tokyo International Airport. Narita is officially Narita International Airport.
A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
 
Viscount724
Posts: 18850
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Tokyo Haneda's New RWY

Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:28 pm

Quoting ASA (Reply 6):
so this is a take-off only runway?!! Wow! is this common - i think i'm hearing this for the first time?

Runway 18 at FRA is only used for takeoffs. The reciprocal 36 number isn't even painted on the runway at the other end.
 
grimey
Posts: 309
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 2:48 am

RE: Tokyo Haneda's New RWY

Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:53 pm

Quoting amccann (Reply 10):
No sense in painting distance markers or touch down markers on runway 05 if they are never going to be used.

My guess would be that the distance markers are to warn pilots of a landing aircraft of the runway length remaining since they could end up in the water if they don't stop. The second guess in case 05 has to be used in an emergency sometime.

Quoting ASA (Reply 6):
so this is a take-off only runway?!!   is this common - i think i'm hearing this for the first time?

BOS runway 14/32 has a similar story:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Airport#Runway_14.2F32

Grimey
 
ASA
Posts: 1002
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:12 pm

RE: Tokyo Haneda's New RWY

Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:25 am

Quoting grimey (Reply 19):
BOS runway 14/32 has a similar story:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Airport#Runway_14.2F32

Grimey

Thanks - that's true. I knew about this one (as a BOS resident) - and I remember all the legal wranglings about making this runway - but I thought the uni-directional was more to do with court orders and lack of clearance - not about the physical strength of the runway. I found the HND restriction due to lack of enough strength to absorb the landing impacts quite fascinating ... from an engineering point of view. I took an airport engineering class in grad school - and the course didn't even cover this possibility, to be honest 

Who is online