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SKAirbus
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The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:06 pm

I have just returned from my first return trip on an A380. I flew LHR-SIN-LHR with Singapore Airlines on their two newest birds 9V-SKM and 9V-SKN.

I have to admit that the aircraft is absolutely stunning inside with a lot more space in economy and offering much better entertainment options and facilities than other aircraft. However I feel SQ have not done enough with it by leaving out mood lighting in Y class and not having the option to view the tail/nose cameras.

Airbus have themselves said that the A380 has become a factor for many passengers to choose flying with a certain airline (along with cost, schedule, etc).

My question to you all is, does the A380's so called "wow" factor with airlines like SQ, AF, LH and EK mean other airlines could be persuaded to order it knowing that the competition have hit marketing gold by operating the type?
Next Flights: LHR-OSL (738), OSL-CPH (320), CPH-LHR (321), LHR-HEL (359), HEL-LHR (359)
 
Flyingfox27
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:39 pm

I thought viewing the nose and tail cams was available to all classes? Unless thats just SQ and it available with EK or something.
 
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SKAirbus
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:46 pm

Quoting Flyingfox27 (Reply 1):
I thought viewing the nose and tail cams was available to all classes? Unless thats just SQ and it available with EK or something.

I flew in Y and it is most definitely not available there... I'm not sure if it is in other classes.
Next Flights: LHR-OSL (738), OSL-CPH (320), CPH-LHR (321), LHR-HEL (359), HEL-LHR (359)
 
Flyingfox27
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:56 pm

Wow, oh well i will defeinatly want a window seat then as when i do get to fly an A380 i would go in normal class (cant see the point of paying more when i can save that money for the destination like buying more stuff, etc) Hope they do have the othe normal things like the following map and films.
 
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Tue Nov 08, 2011 4:14 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Thread starter):
My question to you all is, does the A380's so called "wow" factor with airlines like SQ, AF, LH and EK mean other airlines could be persuaded to order it knowing that the competition have hit marketing gold by operating the type?

No.

I think this "wow" factor is no more than the simple fact that the A380 is currently new and novel. According to SeatGuru, SQ offers exactly the same seats in economy, in exactly the same pitch and width as they do on the 77W. According to PlaneHunter's LH A380 trip report ( Imperfect Giant: CPT-JNB-FRA On SA A332 & LH A380 (by PlaneHunter Oct 21 2011 in Trip Reports) ) LH's A380 actually offers narrower seats than their 744, A343 and A330. By contrast, KE's 407 seat A380 looks incredibly spacious and comfortable, even in economy class with 18" wide seats and 34" pitch.

This "wow" factor, therefore, depends very much on how the airlines configure their aircraft. Airlines could potentially configure a 747-8 with less than 300 seats and achieve a similar feel of spaciousness throughout its cabin. It's not the aircraft itself, it is the airline's configuration of that aircraft that makes the ride either a pleasant or unpleasant experience. Put simply, the "A380 effect" is overrated.

I've also argued in various threads that it is bad business practice to purchase an aircraft just to keep up with the Joneses. A number of airlines are operating the A380. So what? Why would an airline order one just because their competition has one? All because of some deluded sense of a "wow" factor that will disappear several years down the track, just like the "wow" factor for the 747 had disappeared long ago? It has to make sense for that particular airline to have the A380 in its fleet before they commit to it, and just because their competitors have a fleet of them isn't reason enough to buy some for themselves.

Besides, even if there was such a thing as a "wow" factor, then the 787 should have even more of it than the A380, because the 787 is brand new with fancy gizmos such as electrochromatic windows, hands-free lavatories etc etc. Should airlines then start buying the 787 because of a "wow" factor? Or should they buy it simply because it's the best plane for its needs? I don't think a "wow" factor plays a very big role in aircraft purchasing decisions, nor should it.

[Edited 2011-11-08 08:23:10]
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Tue Nov 08, 2011 4:30 pm

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 4):
Besides, even if there was such a thing as a "wow" factor, then the 787 should have even more of it than the A380, because the 787 is brand new with fancy gizmos such as electrochromatic windows, hands-free lavatories etc etc. Should airlines then start buying the 787 because of a "wow" factor? Or should they buy it simply because it's the best plane for its needs? I don't think a "wow" factor plays a very big role in aircraft purchasing decisions, nor should it.

You can't be objective in the wow factor argument, "the 787 has this feature and that special gizmo". This is like what happens in the smart phone debate, one manufacurer may well mee or exceed the specifications on paper but if they don't make the person say wow then it doesn't matter.

My fiance knows what the A380 is and can even spot them for herself (she has no interest in it) but has no clue what a 787 is, "just looks like all the others" was her comment.

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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:28 pm

Remember when the 747 started flying? And many airlines ordered them, because of that "wow" factor, then found it was too much aircraft for them. DL & EA come to mind. With fuel way more expensive than it was in 1969, I'd expect airlines are less apt to buy the A-380 for it's wow factor, than actual need. As my screen name suggests, I'd love to see an airline like RW flying the A-380, but the obsurdity of that just makes me LOL.   
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:02 pm

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 4):
I think this "wow" factor is no more than the simple fact that the A380 is currently new and novel.

There's a line missing from your post: ' When I flew it.....'. How are you judging 'WOW' otherwise?

For those who have flown it it certainly does have a load of Wow. For the first time economy passengers get tons of space to move around and stand in. It has made long haul travel for economy passengers bearable, unlike any other aircraft before it.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 4):
hands-free lavatories

Wait till they break down. Wow.

The 787 is just another two engined aircraft where tons of people get squeezed into a tube and feel like they are sitting on someone else's lap, with a TV 2 inches from their nose. Great.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:18 pm

I think that we here on A.NET are not the best people to ask.

My hairdresser just got back om a trip to Dubai, she flew EK and on an A380, she thought is was fantastic and on future trips will go out of her way to travel on an A380 again, this is the wow factor appeal, at least in this case.
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:40 pm

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 4):
No.

I think this "wow" factor is no more than the simple fact that the A380 is currently new and novel.

Having not flown the 380 yet I can't comment on how it is onboard, but every new place a 380 touches down there are hundreds if not thousands of people there to meet it. That for sure counts for "Wow factor" in my book.
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:41 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 2):
I flew in Y and it is most definitely not available there... I'm not sure if it is in other classes.

Air France has this in Y
 
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:12 pm

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 4):
I think this "wow" factor is no more than the simple fact that the A380 is currently new and novel. According to SeatGuru, SQ offers exactly the same seats in economy, in exactly the same pitch and width as they do on the 77W. According to PlaneHunter's LH A380 trip report ( Imperfect Giant: CPT-JNB-FRA On SA A332 & LH A380 (by PlaneHunter Oct 21 2011 in Trip Reports) ) LH's A380 actually offers narrower seats than their 744, A343 and A330. By contrast, KE's 407 seat A380 looks incredibly spacious and comfortable, even in economy class with 18" wide seats and 34" pitch.

This "wow" factor, therefore, depends very much on how the airlines configure their aircraft. Airlines could potentially configure a 747-8 with less than 300 seats and achieve a similar feel of spaciousness throughout its cabin. It's not the aircraft itself, it is the airline's configuration of that aircraft that makes the ride either a pleasant or unpleasant experience. Put simply, the "A380 effect" is overrated.

Well said. Thanks for the link.

Quoting Babybus (Reply 7):
It has made long haul travel for economy passengers bearable, unlike any other aircraft before it.

How exactly? Have you read my LH report?


PH
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:22 pm

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 4):
LH's A380 actually offers narrower seats than their 744, A343 and A330.

Maybe the seats are smaller, but the cabin width over which they can distribute them is of course way better then on their A343, A330 and B744's. So even smaller seats will most like give more seating space and a more spacious feeling.  .

Due to it's sheer size the A380 will always have a specific wow factor, and more then any other civil aviation airliner.

[Edited 2011-11-08 11:23:58]
 
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:29 pm

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 12):
So even smaller seats will most like give more seating space and a more spacious feeling.

I cannot confirm that.


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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:34 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Thread starter):
Airbus have themselves said that the A380 has become a factor for many passengers to choose flying with a certain airline (along with cost, schedule, etc).

Most of that is marketing hype. Few Y class passengers care about anything other than the lowest fare and don't consider aircraft type.
 
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:14 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 14):
Few Y class passengers care about anything other than the lowest fare and don't consider aircraft type.

That may be true here in Europe but I do believe that Asian pax will make an effort to choose the A380 because they like the kudos of flying with this aircraft.
 
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:20 pm

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 12):
So even smaller seats will most like give more seating space and a more spacious feeling.
Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 13):
I cannot confirm that.

I however can. I flew LH's A380 JFK-FRA last month in a window seat in Y, and I indeed got a feeling of spaciousness: the window is further away, the ceiling is higher up, the aisle is wider.

And then there are those wicked outside cameras. Gotta love them.
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:26 pm

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 12):


Due to it's sheer size the A380 will always have a specific wow factor, and more then any other civil aviation airliner

Agreed, a big portion of its wow factor is its overall size!
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:39 pm

Working for an airline that does not fly jumbos, I can definately say that there is a wow factor with certain aircraft that ordinary passengers uphold. Whilst it will not figure in an accountants head when making a purchasing decision, a number of seat sales are definitely down to aircraft type in certain circumstances. The 747 still holds esteem with passengers, it is part of the fabric of popular culture. Just searching the internet will show passengers travelling LGW - MCO who choose VS as they fly 747s and the discontent when they found out new A330s were on the route.
 
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:47 pm

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 4):
hands-free lavatories

Excuse me???
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:03 pm

I only flew on SQ's 9V-SKA once (SIN-SYD), and found it not overly different from any widebody. Of course, if you are sitting in yout seat you don't "feel" that there is another deck below (or above) you. IFE and service were SQ style friendly, efficient and good quality. I had the feeling (and I acknowledge that it is just a personal feeling) seat pitch was even less than on SQ's 777s. However, I was lucky to have a Y-window-seat on the upper deck, and the storage is just amazing - both the storage space itself, but also the fact that it gives you much more space for your arm - it feels less cramped. And I can confirm: No cameras (at least not on -SKA). Haven't been on any other A380s yet, but know that EK does have the cams in all classes.
Will be on LH's A380 coming Monday NRT-FRA - will be interesting to experience that one! The great thing is that LH has all Y on the main deck, and thus you can get a seat in the nose section in Y!!!

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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:20 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Thread starter):
My question to you all is, does the A380's so called "wow" factor with airlines like SQ, AF, LH and EK mean other airlines could be persuaded to order it knowing that the competition have hit marketing gold by operating the type?

Glad to see you enjoyed your A380 experience! I highly doubt that the "wow" factor would force more than a handful of airlines to order any aircraft but the A380 certainly generates a buzz everywhere it goes, even after four years of its introduction in passenger service. It has probably generated more press coverage and reactions from casual observes than any other aircraft since the B747 first began to appear at airports. I bet that most folks who can't tell apart an A330 from a B767 from an A300 from a B787 would be able to identify these two aircraft: the B747 and the A380.

That said, my rational side hopes that any new operators order it because it will generate revenue.......and view the "wow" factor as a nice bonus!
 
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:49 pm

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 4):
think this "wow" factor is no more than the simple fact that the A380 is currently new and novel.

I disagree. When I flew the 747 for the first time, I was really impressed. Not an "ordinary" airplane, and definetely no 767. And I am sure the A380 even tops that experience.
 
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:55 pm

Size makes a bigger impression on the general public than anything else.. See the C-5, AN-225, AN-124, A380, and the 747. I'd like to see someone deny this.  


That's all I've got to say.
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:07 pm

Flew on it LAX/SYD, enjoyed the flight, but nothing special. The best part was indeed the tail mounted camera, loved that, but otherwise just another flight.
How many can remember when 747's started service in 8 or 9 abreast in economy and lounges upstaIrs, that was comfort, at least until fuel got more expensive and airlines realised they could get 10 across in reasonable comfort.
As for "wow" factor, it still has it, every time I see it, I go, wow that is ugly !!
 
col
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:16 pm

I find that the wow factor for the 380 is my recovery time. I have done 10+ flights to OZ and London from SIN. For some reason I can adjust sleep patterns etc and that is in economy. The 77W is the worse for me, and I have taken to trying ear plugs which helped. The 744 is also so, so. MH get their 380 next year, so will give me a few more options.
 
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:22 pm

What I really liked about the A380 is its quietness, extraordinarily quiet bird, a big wow factor especially on long flights.
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shankly
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:25 pm

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 5):
My fiance knows what the A380 is and can even spot them for herself (she has no interest in it) but has no clue what a 787 is, "just looks like all the others" was her comment

Same as my missus. She knows that the EK A380 has a cocktail bar and all the other planes don't

More objectively, given that the cabin fit and gizmo's is a function of the individual airline, the ride and cabin noise, particularly at take-off in the A380 is so much of a step above the common widebodies, by which I mean the 744, 777, A330 and A340.

I actually think EK's business class seat is better on the 77W's than it is on the A380, but boy do those 77W's grate away at your ears over 8, 9, 10, 11hrs
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:28 pm

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 12):
Maybe the seats are smaller, but the cabin width over which they can distribute them is of course way better then on their A343, A330 and B744's

If what is mentioned in the trip report linked is accurate (that LH A380 has the same seat dimensions as the A340-600) I can confirm that they are awful for long haul flights. I have flown the LAX-MUC-LAX a few times with the A346 and it is very uncomfortable. I was glad to be on the LH A320 seat after that flight!
 
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:34 pm

An airplane is an airplane, and airlines usually buy them as revenue making machines the way bakers buy ovens.

However, they do carry customers in those aircrafts, and customers, unlike hot breads, have this pesky thinking brain in their skulls, and it doesn't always think as coldly and rationally as an airline beancounter's.

Marketing is a science, and it is used by ALL businesses who make their revenue by selling things to human beings. It is a method that uses the unrational/emotional thinking of the brain to lead it into making a decision (purchase), sometimes against logic. Ask any Apple stockholder about the importance of properly marketing a product... *standing by for flak*

In any case, that wow factors sells seats and is thus quantifiable. Whether it will last or not is unknown, but it does exist and it does have a financial reality that airlines may or may not choose to include in their calculations.
But if they don't, as said above, it's always a nice extra...
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blobby3
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:48 pm

I have been lucky enough to fly on SQ A380 service (LHR-SIN-LHR) 3 times in the past year in J class and just wanted to make a couple of points (be nice I am new!):

1. Twice the SQ fare was higher than the Qantas/BA flight which departs/arrives at almost the same time. (B747 Service) but I chose the A380. More interesting aircraft, much much quieter, more modern, is certainly different to every other type. Of course if I had been paying with my own money then perhaps it would have been different.

2. On the third trip the prices were within a few £ of each other comparing the Qantas/BA flight to the SQ one. Of course I chose the A380 service. Nothing to do with the airline, just the aircraft I prefer.

3. SQ do not have the nose/tail camera in J either (would be nice).

Having travelled on most aircraft types in various classes I have to say the best overall experience I have had was on the A380, maybe that is all in the mind but I'm sure I am not alone and SQ got the money 3 times in a row over their rivals for that reason. That said I'm sure some of you who are posting that this is potentially a short lived Wow factor may be right. Certainly as more carriers fly the aircraft it will obviously become less of a deciding factor when choosing.

Finally I should say that the J class seat and experience with SQ is superb, the food is excellent, personal service is great and the seat itself both massive (almost too big!) and comfy - could not ask for more*


*other airlines also available 
 
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:16 pm

Quoting lewis (Reply 28):
If what is mentioned in the trip report linked is accurate (that LH A380 has the same seat dimensions as the A340-600) I can confirm that they are awful for long haul flights. I have flown the LAX-MUC-LAX a few times with the A346 and it is very uncomfortable. I was glad to be on the LH A320 seat after that flight!

Personally I found my rides on the A340-600 LH has very comfortable. I flew a couple of times FRA-CAN-MNL and back with them and loved it. Here you can clearly see how individual people have different feelings on identical experiences.

But keep in mind that the same seat dimensions does not mean identical seats. So the comfort could be very different. And still the space between them is a lot larger then on the A346, unless LH has the widest aisles in the business and would make bad usage of all the extra space available in her A380's.

Quoting blobby3 (Reply 30):
Having travelled on most aircraft types in various classes I have to say the best overall experience I have had was on the A380, maybe that is all in the mind but I'm sure I am not alone and SQ got the money 3 times in a row over their rivals for that reason

I am sure you are not alone. I flew SQ's A380 4 times and those were for me the bests flights ever. Period. But maybe the B787 and A350 will work a miracle or two? But until I have flown both of them a couple of times, the A380 is by far the benchmark for me.  .

Quoting blobby3 (Reply 30):
(be nice I am new!):

I think I have been very nice to you.  . And welcome here.
 
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:35 pm

The seats on the A380 in Y are usually the same compared to an airline's other fleet but I think the "wow" factor isn't just hype. The cabin is a lot bigger, spacious and quieter. I would definitely prefer the A380 over all other aircraft.

I flew SQ's A380s, once in Y and on J in the return leg (paid for an upgrade to try their new J). On my first leg, I looked out the window at the engines to see if they were running... it was that quiet! Almost got to take EK's A380 too but I was disappointed when I ended up on a 77W instead.

But with that said, I don't think an airline would buy an A380 unless the loads justify having it. A certain proportion of the population might pay for a more comfortable (or perceived more comfortable) ride but with fuel costs making the bulk on an airline's cost, I doubt the profits from the wow-effect can offset the greater fuel consumption

Quoting francoflier (Reply 29):
Marketing is a science, and it is used by ALL businesses who make their revenue by selling things to human beings. It is a method that uses the unrational/emotional thinking of the brain to lead it into making a decision (purchase), sometimes against logic. Ask any Apple stockholder about the importance of properly marketing a product... *standing by for flak*

In any case, that wow factors sells seats and is thus quantifiable. Whether it will last or not is unknown, but it does exist and it does have a financial reality that airlines may or may not choose to include in their calculations.
But if they don't, as said above, it's always a nice extra...

Exactly. Objectively, I like the A380 because the cabin (not seats) are bigger and its quieter but in the marketing aspect of things, the A380 probably gives airlines a certain edge. SQ managed to create a lot of hype with their A380 launch and even until now whenever I travel and am asked what airline I flew on, if I say SQ, the first I usually get asked is, "was it the A380?". I think this aircraft still has a lot of a wow-effect with the general population.

... And I remember SQ's little PR stunt with their Suites when they said no hanky panky would be allowed on it. For a month, radio stations everywhere were talking about doing it on an airplane and SQ's Suites.. giving them a whole lot of publicity all for free. How sneaky 
 
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:45 am

My inclination would be to avoid the A380.
 
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:55 am

Quoting ATA L1011 (Reply 17):
Agreed, a big portion of its wow factor is its overall size!

It's a bloke thing...we are always impressed by the biggest things   

There is no doubt the A380 is impressived because of its sheer size. It looks huge and strangely graceful as it lands or takes off. The 787 is technically very good but the "average Joe" wouldn't be able to tell it from an A330 or 767 but the A380 stands out just like the 747 has for the past 30 years.
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:02 am

Quoting AirCalSNA (Reply 33):
My inclination would be to avoid the A380.

Luckily your inclination does not need to worry, the runway at SNA is too short for the beast anyway. But it is a nice airport. I would also, if you get chance, nip across to LAX and give the 380 a go, you might surprise yourself and your inclination.
 
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:43 am

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 15):
That may be true here in Europe but I do believe that Asian pax will make an effort to choose the A380 because they like the kudos of flying with this aircraft.

These encompassing statements about people who live in a particular continent are a very big stretch. It may be true about some and I never generalize. But among my friends from all continents, I find Asians to be the most careful about spending money and always concerned with getting a good deal. Fork over $100 extra to fly on the A380? Forget it!
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Tigerguy
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:14 am

Appearance aside (we've already had enough threads about that), the A380's wow factor with me is its newness and size. Once that's out of the way, though, I'll judge it along the same lines as any other plane; as mentioned above, what the airline does also has a big effect. In the end, it doesn't really look that different than most other planes--the two full decks just make for a bigger tube with wings and a tail. (That's not to say that it can't look good from certain angles, though!) I think the 747 still can give you a sense that you're looking at something exotic, as it certainly was when it first came out.
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CXB77L
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:23 am

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 5):
You can't be objective in the wow factor argument

Neither can anyone. When you're talking about passenger preferences, it is, by definition, a subjective preference.

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 5):
My fiance knows what the A380 is and can even spot them for herself (she has no interest in it) but has no clue what a 787 is, "just looks like all the others" was her comment.

Well, NH has taken to painting "787" in large print on the fuselage. That's hard to miss.

Quoting Babybus (Reply 7):
The 787 is just another two engined aircraft where tons of people get squeezed into a tube and feel like they are sitting on someone else's lap, with a TV 2 inches from their nose. Great.

Have you flown the 787? Substitute "787" with "A380" and delete "two engined" from that sentence and you've got yourself another generalised statement.

You didn't even read my post, did you? I said that whether the "wow" factor exists depends very much on the airline's configuration. I even said that KE's A380 does look incredibly spacious and comfortable, and the figures on SeatGuru seems to confirm that. I never made such a generalised statement as you did above. Fanboyism at its finest ...  

If I'm ever to try an A380, it'll be with KE ... not because it's an A380, but because its relatively sparse configuration makes it desirable. It isn't the aircraft type, it's the configuration that matters. Likewise, NH's 158 seat 787 (2-4-2 in Y) and 215 seat 77W (3-4-2 in Y) makes both a very desirable long haul flying experience.

Unless, of course, you happen to be a fan of a particular aircraft type, in which case any objectivity goes out the window ...

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 11):
Well said. Thanks for the link.

Thank you, PlaneHunter. I thought that given your experiences on many different carriers and many different aircraft types your analysis would be useful.

Quoting georgiaame (Reply 19):
Excuse me???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ow1yKHkR54

Quoting col (Reply 25):
I find that the wow factor for the 380 is my recovery time. I have done 10+ flights to OZ and London from SIN. For some reason I can adjust sleep patterns etc and that is in economy. The 77W is the worse for me, and I have taken to trying ear plugs which helped. The 744 is also so,

From personal experience, the 744 is noisier than the 77W. But it all depends on where you're sitting. I sat behind the wing on the 744 and over the wing on the 77W. By all accounts I've read, the nose section on the 744 and 77W are somewhat quieter.

Quoting infinit (Reply 32):
SQ managed to create a lot of hype with their A380 launch and even until now whenever I travel and am asked what airline I flew on, if I say SQ, the first I usually get asked is, "was it the A380?". I think this aircraft still has a lot of a wow-effect with the general population.

This is another point: the "wow" factor is created by hype. SQ did a lot of marketing (as they rightly should, as the launch customer of the A380), like NH are currently doing with the 787. If SQ and all other current A380 operators didn't give the A380 the 'hype' and quietly slipped it into service, would we be having this discussion? I'm sure that in the near future, people would be asking anyone who says they flew on NH, "was it the 787?"
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baroque
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:33 am

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 31):
But keep in mind that the same seat dimensions does not mean identical seats. So the comfort could be very different. And still the space between them is a lot larger then on the A346, unless LH has the widest aisles in the business and would make bad usage of all the extra space available in her A380's.

There does seem to be some special maths going around in this thread, similar to that used for the calculation of risk for NEO engines!! OK, we can buy the pitch being decreased, but if the Y cabin is 10 across, do LH ask Airbus for specially narrowed Y sections? Because otherwise that width has to go somewhere. If not to the seats, then between them and if not there, then to the aisles. Whatever, you have to end up with more lateral space. Well, unless LH has snuck up with 11 across - has it?

And yes, the A380 is wow. And mightily displeased I was at being bumped off QF31 (A380) to QF001 (747) back in early Sept. So it appears that day a few hundred other QF pax were striving for the A380 experience also. And the 747 lived up to my expectations, much more noisy, less spacious cabin, even though in the 747 I was downstairs in Y+ whereas in the A380 I would have been upstairs in Y+. Also the 747 was freezing, because I was in the first row just behind the freezers in one of the galleys it seems. We got blasted by an air mass that came from the Arctic. And yes, the F/As were busy trying to turn the heat up. So don't try to tell me that a QF 747 is about the same as a QF380, and we have not even started on the IFE have we!!
 
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:50 am

Just to be clear, the SQ A380 does not have tail camera in any of its classes. Why? I don't know.

When I book flights, I always look for the A380 services, unless price and schedule are much better with other airlines.

Secondly, I have family members in Norway that just booked airfares to Australia. They went for the lowest price which was with BA, but all the options between LHR and SIN (including QF) cost the same. They chose the A380 QF departure because of the A380, and this was people that don't know much about aviation.

So, the A380 has a bit of a wow factor and will take away from competition, where it is chosen when all other options are equal (in cost, schedule, etc.). But enough to get airlines to order it just to compete, I don't think so (unless they have large enough trunk routes to fill it).

-CXfirst
 
mdavies06
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:54 am

I would take a flight that suits my timing and non stop over any other consideration. And this is not just me. A lot of travellers (especially those flying on business) see timing and non stop/direct routing as key. If a route is served twice daily (say on 767/777) by one carrier vs daily on A380 by another, I wouldn't bend over backwards to fly A380 if the timing is not right. This represents the view of frequency over size.
 
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:35 am

Quoting Baroque (Reply 41):
So don't try to tell me that a QF 747 is about the same as a QF380, and we have not even started on the IFE have we!!

I would think that's due in no small part to the fact that QF's 744s are rather old and tatty, except for the 9 744s that they're keeping and refurbishing. It wouldn't be inconceivable that there was something wrong with the air conditioning system on your flight. That's certainly not characteristic of all 747s, which goes to my point about how airlines configure and maintain their aircraft does make a difference to the overall impression of the plane. I flew on an immaculately maintained NZ 744 back in February and found that to be one of the most comfortable flights I've ever had.

At the moment, QF's A380 has the exclusive advantage of having their latest on board hard products, which certainly contributes to a "wow" factor. However, QF are going to the trouble of installing the same type of seats on the 744 as on the A380, and presumably the same IFE system as well, in order to provide a certain degree of commonality in its long haul fleet, so all that remains exclusive to the A380 would be its F class cabin. So unless I'm in a position to fly in F, there's no reason for me to select the A380 just because it's the A380. The 744ER with a refurbished cabin and Boeing Signature Interior makes a very compelling case for cabin ambience.
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zippyjet
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:04 am

Quoting SKAirbus (Thread starter):
My question to you all is, does the A380's so called "wow" factor with airlines like SQ, AF, LH and EK mean other airlines could be persuaded to order it knowing that the competition have hit marketing gold by operating the type?

As with many different types of the current airliners. An airline can go schlock stripped down or into hock
getting it loaded. A friend and co-worker just returned on EK going from JFK to Dubai then connected for his shorter flight to India on one of their 330's. He was impressed with the 380. EK had the whole shebang, mood lighting and I'm not sure about the cameras. Other airlines may not feel a bird such as the 380 would fit their needs but are ordering the 787. One can order the 787 with all the bells and whistles or a stripped down version. Though not as big, I feel those who get the chance to fly on a Dreamliner will come away impressed.
As with other airliners in the past especially the widebodies from all manufacters, the airline orders what it wants. For example UA 777's have individual gaspers where BA does not.

[Edited 2011-11-08 21:05:06]
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PlaneHunter
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:21 am

Quoting UALWN (Reply 16):
I however can. I flew LH's A380 JFK-FRA last month in a window seat in Y, and I indeed got a feeling of spaciousness: the window is further away, the ceiling is higher up, the aisle is wider.

If I'm stuck in a window seat, I cannot lean against the wall and the aisle width is totally irrelevant.

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 31):
And still the space between them is a lot larger then on the A346

I didn't notice that.


PH
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astuteman
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:27 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 11):
Quoting Babybus (Reply 7): It has made long haul travel for economy passengers bearable, unlike any other aircraft before it.
How exactly? Have you read my LH report?

Since when did you become the sole arbiter for A380 "wow" factor?

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 12):
Due to it's sheer size the A380 will always have a specific wow factor, and more then any other civil aviation airliner

  
The bottom line, my friend. The A380 will ALWAYS be more visible in the public eye

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 40):
Well, NH has taken to painting "787" in large print on the fuselage. That's hard to miss.

And just about proves the point.
Says something when you feel you HAVE to paint the designation in huge letters on the plane just to differentiate it from the horde...

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 40):
I said that whether the "wow" factor exists depends very much on the airline's configuration.

The A380's size, and quietness are independent of airline configuration

Quoting Baroque (Reply 41):
OK, we can buy the pitch being decreased, but if the Y cabin is 10 across, do LH ask Airbus for specially narrowed Y sections?

  
Spoilsport  

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zippyjet
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:36 am

Quoting astuteman (Reply 47):
Quoting CXB77L (Reply 40):
Well, NH has taken to painting "787" in large print on the fuselage. That's hard to miss.

And just about proves the point.
Says something when you feel you HAVE to paint the designation in huge letters on the plane just to differentiate it from the horde...

Why not if you are the launch customer. This has been done many times in the past.


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I rest my case.  
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astuteman
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:06 am

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 46):
Why not if you are the launch customer. This has been done many times in the past.

I'm sure it has. I just wasn't convinced that it was good evidence of an airframe having intrinsic "wow" factor....

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 46):
I rest my case

Go you!  

Rgds
 
ukoverlander
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:57 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 11):
How exactly? Have you read my LH report?

No offence but since when did your report become the Bible for the Lufthansa A380 passeneger experience?

Isn't it just your opinion or did you poll all the passenegers on the aircraft for their feedback before you posted your report?
 
CXB77L
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RE: The A380 And Its "wow" Factor

Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:58 am

Quoting astuteman (Reply 45):
The A380's size, and quietness are independent of airline configuration

You have a point there, but if that's all there is to a "wow" factor then the 747-8 should also qualify when it enters commercial passenger service, as it is both large and quiet. Likewise, the 787 with its quietness and large windows and fancy gizmos also adds somewhat of a "wow" factor to it as well. It's not something that's unique to the A380.

I wonder, though, if people would still be saying "wow" if their first A380 experience was with UU's all-economy class configuration. The "wow" factor with A380s currently lies in part with the gadgets that airlines have placed on board: EK's F class showers, F & J class bars, KE's duty free shop and the impressive "Celestial Bar", AF's museum ... etc. If people were to fly a no frills carrier with a high density configuration, would the praises for the aircraft still be ringing?

Quoting ukoverlander (Reply 48):
since when did your report become the Bible for the Lufthansa A380 passeneger experience?

I don't believe that's what he meant at all. Babybus made the assertion that the A380 has made long haul travel for economy class passengers bearable, without anything to substantiate that claim. PlaneHunter pointed out that that is not always true and depends on many factors, not the least of which is the seats that the airlines choose to place on their aircraft.

Which reminds me ...

Quoting Babybus (Reply 7):
For the first time economy passengers get tons of space to move around and stand in.

For the first time??

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[Edited 2011-11-08 23:12:03]
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