ahtohob346
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80 A320NEO For Frontier?

Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:12 pm

Just twitted by Airbus:

Strong momentum for #A320neo! Republic (in US) orders 80 aircraft for @flyfrontier subsidiary. 60 A320neo & 20 A319neo.


Any news??
 
mikefrommke
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80 A320NEO For Frontier?

Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:16 pm

This was announced several months ago, today's announcement is regarding the confirmation of those orders.
 
kingcavalier
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80 A320NEO For Frontier?

Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:22 pm

The only change today is the order was originally anounced as 40 A319NEO's and 40 A320NEO's, but today they said it would be 20 A319NEO's and 60 A320NEO's. I like the change to more A320's, but I would be even more happy if there were a few A321's in there.
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
 
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lightsaber
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80 A320NEO For Frontier?

Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:50 pm

Made the WSJ (subscription required).

Quoting kingcavalier (Reply 2):
I like the change to more A320's, but I would be even more happy if there were a few A321's in there.

Agreed. I'm a little surprised at the switch. I was under the impression F9 was being made a sweet deal on the A319s.

Now I really like the idea of the CS300s... The question is, what is that order status?

Lightsaber
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mariner
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80 A320NEO For Frontier?

Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:02 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 3):
Agreed. I'm a little surprised at the switch. I was under the impression F9 was being made a sweet deal on the A319s.

It still is, and for the A320Neo. But - as in life generally - things change.

At the time, the Republic order was the only order for A319Neo's - and gave Airbus what it wanted - but now that AMR has shown interest in the aircraft, that become less important.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
chiad
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80 A320NEO For Frontier?

Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:10 pm

Quoting mikefrommke (Reply 1):
This was announced several months ago, today's announcement is regarding the confirmation of those orders.
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 3):

Made the WSJ (subscription required).

So this is official?
Just another 80 firm orders for the NEO?
  

If true then Airbus just passed 1300 orders for 2011, and around 1100 of those are for the NEO.
  

Who would have thought that one year ago?
 
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scbriml
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80 A320NEO For Frontier?

Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:13 pm

Great to see this order firmed up.

Those will be some seriously nice looking planes!
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
Extra300
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RE: 80 A320NEO For Frontier?

Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:13 pm

Quoting Chiad (Reply 5):
true then Airbus just passed 1300 orders for 2011, and around 1100 of those are for the NEO.

And the A320 family has now over 8000 orders in total since the order book opened in 1984!
 
astuteman
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RE: 80 A320NEO For Frontier?

Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:29 pm

Quoting Chiad (Reply 5):
and around 1100 of those are for the NEO.

1 138 to be precise....  

Rgds
 
FRNT787
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RE: 80 A320NEO For Frontier?

Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:03 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 6):
Great to see this order firmed up.

Yes it is. CFM will be quite happy as well to have secured a large order from a Pratt GTF customer as well.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 3):
Now I really like the idea of the CS300s... The question is, what is that order status?

That order is still firm at 40 +40 options. 20 A319s sounds about right. The C-Series can take over most of the A319/A318 and E190 flying, while the A319s can do the long current A319 routes (DEN-FAI, DEN-ANC, DEN-LIR etc...) and open up some new ones.

Quoting kingcavalier (Reply 2):
I like the change to more A320's, but I would be even more happy if there were a few A321's in there.

I agree. I expect that in a couple years to be honest. Maybe like:
15 A321
45 A320
20 A319
40 CS300s.
"We have a right to fail, because failure makes us grow" --Glenn Beck
 
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EPA001
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RE: 80 A320NEO For Frontier?

Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:57 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 6):
Great to see this order firmed up.

  .

Quoting scbriml (Reply 6):
Those will be some seriously nice looking planes!

Wow, that sure is a seriously nice looking plane.  
 
xdlx
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RE: 80 A320NEO For Frontier?

Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:34 am

Quoting FRNT787 (Reply 9):

So why not A318? .....
 
ZKCIF
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RE: 80 A320NEO For Frontier?

Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:39 am

Quoting xdlx (Reply 11):
So why not A318? .....

Why not 317? For the right amount and price, Airbus would develop some
 
 
flyby519
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RE: 80 A320NEO For Frontier?

Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:54 am

Quoting scbriml (Reply 6):
Great to see this order firmed up.

Those will be some seriously nice looking planes!

I wouldnt be so sure that "Frontier" will be painted on the side of the plane when it is delivered...  
These postings or comments are not a company-sponsored source of communication.
 
SXDFC
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RE: 80 A320NEO For Frontier?

Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:55 am

Quoting xdlx (Reply 11):
So why not A318? ....

They can use the parts from the scrapped ones to make new ones!   

Will be some good lookin birds! Didnt Republic order the Superjet or the CS Series too?
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
sxf24
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RE: 80 A320NEO For Frontier?

Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:07 am

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 13):
I wouldnt be so sure that "Frontier" will be painted on the side of the plane when it is delivered...

I would guarantee few, if any, of this order are delivered to Republic or Frontier.
 
SEA
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RE: 80 A320NEO For Frontier?

Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:09 am

How can a company on the verge of bankruptcy order 80 brand new jets?
 
nutsaboutplanes
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RE: 80 A320NEO For Frontier?

Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:15 am

Quoting SEA (Reply 16):
How can a company on the verge of bankruptcy order 80 brand new jets?

The same way a much bigger company on the verge of bankruptcy can order 460 brand new jets.   
American Airlines, US Airways, Alaska Airlines, Northwest Airlines, America West Airlines, USAFR
 
FRNT787
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RE: 80 A320NEO For Frontier?

Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:09 am

Quoting xdlx (Reply 11):
So why not A318? .....

The current 4 in the fleet will be gone by 2013. Airbus is not making a neo version, and the airplane makes no sense.

Quoting SEA (Reply 16):
How can a company on the verge of bankruptcy order 80 brand new jets?

Last I checked, they were not on the verge of bankruptcy.
"We have a right to fail, because failure makes us grow" --Glenn Beck
 
flyorski
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RE: 80 A320NEO For Frontier?

Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:34 am

What is up with all the Frontier haters coming out of the woodwork today? Congrats to Frontier and Airbus for getting this firmed up.
"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
 
chiad
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RE: 80 A320NEO For Frontier?

Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:36 am

Quoting astuteman (Reply 8):
1 138 to be precise....

Ah ... thank you!! I was actually trying to find the precise number!
  
 
r2rho
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RE: 80 A320NEO For Frontier?

Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:18 am

Well, a bit of bad news for BBD as their commitment to NEO is reaffirmed (while we haven't heard anything from Republic about the CSeries after Le Bourget). On the other hand a bit of good news as the reduction in A319NEO from 40 to 20 reduces the overlap with the CS300, and makes the possibility of them operating side-by-side more likely. The question now is where Republic is going to fly all those aircraft to. Can they really get that demand?

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 3):
The question is, what is that order status?

I think the CS300 was a firm order from the very beginning? And no new announcements have been made so far...
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: 80 A320NEO For Frontier?

Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:27 pm

Quoting Chiad (Reply 5):
So this is official?
Just another 80 firm orders for the NEO?


If true then Airbus just passed 1300 orders for 2011, and around 1100 of those are for the NEO.

Isn't this a firm committment of an exsisting order? If so, then there is no increase in the numbers as these are already counted.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 6):
Those will be some seriously nice looking planes!

F9 has, IMHO, by far the worst livery in the world today. No airplane model could make it look good.

Quoting xdlx (Reply 11):
So why not A318? .....
Quoting ZKCIF (Reply 12):
Why not 317?

Why not the A-380? Come on guys, the A-318 is as useless to the airlines as the B-737-600 is, and to make an even smaller "A-317" would be just a waste of the OEM's money.

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 13):
I wouldnt be so sure that "Frontier" will be painted on the side of the plane when it is delivered...
Quoting sxf24 (Reply 15):
I would guarantee few, if any, of this order are delivered to Republic or Frontier.
Quoting nutsaboutplanes (Reply 17):
Quoting SEA (Reply 16):
How can a company on the verge of bankruptcy order 80 brand new jets?

The same way a much bigger company on the verge of bankruptcy can order 460 brand new jets.

F9 is in big financial trouble. I have no understanding why they would commit to an order they may never be able to afford, the same goes for the big 460 airplane order from AA to Airbus and Boeing. Could Airbus be helping both F9 and AA financially? I don't know but it is possible. They did 'bail-out' US, just a few years before that term became a household phrase.
 
maxter
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RE: 80 A320NEO For Frontier?

Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:31 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 22):

Isn't this a firm committment of an exsisting order?

Perhaps it's a firm order of a previous commitment   
maxter
 
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EPA001
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RE: 80 A320NEO For Frontier?

Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:12 pm

Quoting maxter (Reply 23):
Perhaps it's a firm order of a previous commitment

And only then it is counted as a firm order.  .

Quoting astuteman (Reply 8):
1 138 to be precise....

And there we have the exact number after these orders were made firm.  
 
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scbriml
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RE: 80 A320NEO For Frontier?

Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:17 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 22):
Isn't this a firm committment of an exsisting order? If so, then there is no increase in the numbers as these are already counted.



It's the firming of a previously announced commitment. Since Airbus doesn't count the orders until they've been firmed, this is a new order and will be added to the O&D spreadsheet when it's updated in early December. 1,138 is the new total of firm neo sales, which is now 80 higher than it was on Monday.

It's interesting that they've chosen to announce this the week before the Dubai air show. I'm tempted to speculate that we'll see some significant new neo announcements next week.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 22):
F9 has, IMHO, by far the worst livery in the world today. No airplane model could make it look good.



You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. Even if it's wrong.   

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 22):
A-318 is as useless to the airlines as the B-737-600 is, and to make an even smaller "A-317" would be just a waste of the OEM's money.



There is no such thing as an "A" dash "318 or a "B" dash 737. All Airbus models are simply A and the model number - A318, A350, A380, etc. Boeing's are just the model number - 737, 707, 787 etc.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
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EPA001
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RE: 80 A320NEO For Frontier?

Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:27 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 25):
It's interesting that they've chosen to announce this the week before the Dubai air show. I'm tempted to speculate that we'll see some significant new NEO announcements next week.

Maybe Frontier wanted some publicity on their own instead of being a footnote at the Dubai Air Show? Indeed that makes you wonder.......   
 
chiad
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RE: 80 A320NEO For Frontier?

Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:39 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 22):
F9 has, IMHO, by far the worst livery in the world today. No airplane model could make it look good.

Oh lord. Not even the MAX
 
Quoting scbriml (Reply 25):
It's interesting that they've chosen to announce this the week before the Dubai air show. I'm tempted to speculate that we'll see some significant new neo announcements next week.

  
What about the A380....
 
FRNT787
Posts: 363
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RE: 80 A320NEO For Frontier?

Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:33 pm

Quoting flyorski (Reply 19):
What is up with all the Frontier haters coming out of the woodwork today? Congrats to Frontier and Airbus for getting this firmed up.

Must be displeased about their profit.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 22):
Isn't this a firm committment of an exsisting order? If so, then there is no increase in the numbers as these are already counted.

It was an MOU, and thus not counted until firmed.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 22):
F9 has, IMHO, by far the worst livery in the world today. No airplane model could make it look good.

Totally disagree, its my favorite by far, and the Airbus fleet just wears it beautifully.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 22):
F9 is in big financial trouble.

They have one one of the lowest cost structures in the industry now. NEO makes that even better. The plane order was a contracted part of their restructure program. For a small airline, a profit of over $15 million is not bad at all. The restructure had little effect on this as well, all those benefits are not seen until Q4 or even 2012. Not to mention, they took a $10 million impact from the DEN hailstorm. Plus, management is predicting a profitable Frontier throughout 2012. Is it smooth skies ahead, no. But they have a plan, and at least for now, it seems to be working. Pesky facts.  
Quoting scbriml (Reply 25):
It's interesting that they've chosen to announce this the week before the Dubai air show. I'm tempted to speculate that we'll see some significant new neo announcements next week.

RAH announced it on the day of their Q3 results. They also announced the restructure is largely complete now, and they talked about the next phase of their business plan. Plus a solidly profitable company overall, a spectacular confirmation of a plane order that many said would not happen, and it was a good day for them. Airbus, of course, was all too happy to oblige. That said, I certainly would not disagree with you about some more neo orders at Dubai. (Hard to believe that there are still more to sell!)
"We have a right to fail, because failure makes us grow" --Glenn Beck
 
xdlx
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Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:29 pm

RE: 80 A320NEO For Frontier?

Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:42 pm

Quoting FRNT787 (Reply 18):

What makes no sense is to order and stock & Train for another type, when the idea for a FAMILY of airplanes
is to provide commonality. So the 318 is not optimal.... but in a small subfleet makes more sense than
a different type.
 
babybus
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RE: 80 A320NEO For Frontier?

Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:45 pm

It is a shame Frontier don't put in for a couple of A350s.

People seem to be getting very interested in polar wildernesses these days. They could use them to encourage package holiday makers and service the existing cruise ship industry. Wouldn't a Europe to Far East via Anchorage operation work like it did in the past?

The Frontier livery is one of my favourites. The A320 is one of my favourites too. A winning combination.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
FRNT787
Posts: 363
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RE: 80 A320NEO For Frontier?

Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:28 pm

Quoting xdlx (Reply 29):
What makes no sense is to order and stock & Train for another type, when the idea for a FAMILY of airplanes
is to provide commonality. So the 318 is not optimal.... but in a small subfleet makes more sense than
a different type.

It must be remembered the C-Series was ordered a full 8 months before the neo existed. 40 CS300s is plenty to override any "commonality" issues in my opinion. RAH management is very cost oriented, and I assume they agree with this as well. And the A318 was on its way out with or without the C-Series order. The C-Series was inteded as an A319 replacement anyways.

Quoting Babybus (Reply 30):
It is a shame Frontier don't put in for a couple of A350s.

Im glad they didnt! Dont get me wrong, a dream of mine would be to see F9 extend into long-haul flying. It just would be a disaster at this time. That said, if it ever works out way into the future (hypothetical)...then the A350 would be a mighty fine airplane with which to do it. It just may be a slight bit too big though. 787-8 would be perfect size IMO, though 3 manufacturers would raise all sorts of arguments on this sight lol.

Quoting Babybus (Reply 30):
The Frontier livery is one of my favourites. The A320 is one of my favourites too. A winning combination.

It sure is. Boeing may just be kicking themselves for their lack of negotiation back in 1999.

[Edited 2011-11-09 08:30:16]
"We have a right to fail, because failure makes us grow" --Glenn Beck
 
dave2
Posts: 29
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RE: 80 A320NEO For Frontier?

Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:38 pm

Rumor has it that Frontier maybe up for sale by Republic. Wonder how all of that plays?

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