Tolmachevo
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:49 am

New LH Routes From Berlin

Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:23 am

Lufthansa plans for BER from June 3, 2012 when the new airport opens.

Lufthansa Network, Berlin-Brandenburg Airport (BER),
Summer 2012


Germany
Frankfurt (FRA) Lufthansa
München (MUC) Lufthansa,Germanwings
Düsseldorf (DUS) Lufthansa
Köln/Bonn (CGN) Lufthansa,Germanwings
Nürnberg (NUE) Lufthansa
Stuttgart (STR) Lufthansa,Germanwings
Sylt (GWT) Lufthansa new

Europe
Barcelona (BCN) Lufthansa new
Bastia (BIA) Lufthansa new
Bergen (BGO) Lufthansa new
Birmingham (BHX) Lufthansa new
Bologna (BLQ) Lufthansa new
Brüssel (BRU) Brussels Airlines
Bukarest (OTP) Lufthansa new
Catania (CTA) Lufthansa new
Dubrovnik (DBV) Lufthansa new
Genf (GVA) Lufthansa new
Helsinki (HEL) Lufthansa new
Heraklion (HER) Germanwings
Istanbul (IST) Lufthansa new
Izmir (ADB) Lufthansa new
London (LHR) Lufthansa
Lyon (LYS) Lufthansa new
Maastricht (MST) Germanwings
Mailand (LIN) Lufthansa new
Málaga (AGP) Lufthansa new
Manchester (MAN) Lufthansa new
Moskau (VKO) Lufthansa new (new airport)
Nizza (NCE) Lufthansa new
Palma de Mallorca (PMI) Lufthansa new
Paris (CDG) Lufthansa
Priština (PRN) Germanwings
Pula (PUY) Germanwings
Reykjavik (KEV) Lufthansa new
Rom (FCO) Lufthansa new
Split (SPU) Lufthansa new
Stockholm (ARN) Lufthansa new
Valencia (VLC) Lufthansa new
Wien (VIE) Lufthansa new, Austrian Airlines
Zadar (ZAD) Lufthansa new
Zagreb (ZAG) Lufthansa new
Zürich (ZRH) Swiss

Middle East
Beirut (BEY) Lufthansa new
Tel Aviv (TLV) Lufthansa new

Star Alliance Partner destinations
Newark/USA (EWR) United/Continental
Athen (ATH) Aegean Airlines
Kopenhagen (CPH) SAS
Kairo (CAI) Egyptair
Warschau (WAW) LOT Polish Airlines

Double Service Lufthansa / Star Alliance Partner
Barcelona (BCN) Spanair
Dubrovnik (DBV) Croatia Airlines
Helsinki (HEL) Blue 1
Istanbul (IST) Turkish Airlines
Split (SPU) Croatia Airlines
Stockholm (ARN) SAS

[Edited 2011-11-09 02:24:25]
 
LondonCity
Posts: 987
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RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:25 am

Great news for Berliners. At last the national airline will provide them with the service they deserve. But as for LHR-BER it's unclear who will operate the flight. Will it be LH mainline or LH regional or Bmi .... if still in business ?
 
tim171080
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RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:26 am

There will be 15 A320 stationed at BER.Fares starting at 49EUR ow.
 
santos
Posts: 416
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RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:29 am

Quoting tim171080 (Reply 2):
There will be 15 A320 stationed at BER

Some routes will be operated by A319's.

Great news for LH & BER
 
steman
Posts: 1406
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2000 4:55 pm

RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:33 am

Finally the news I´ve been waiting for: FCO direct from BER with LH!

I actually expected LH to make BER the next big Germanwing base and not to operate the bulk of the new routes itself.
But I´m very glad of this development.
 
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teme82
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RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:36 am

Wonder why they started HEL route since KF already flies the route already and LH is code-sharing on those flights.
Flying high and low
 
DALCE
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RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:38 am

I miss AMS in this list. I would have expected LH to jump in on this route too.
flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,77W,788,319,320,321,333,AB6.
 
C010T3
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RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:39 am

When I said that DRS-LHR was being dropped because I believed that LH was concentrating their efforts at BER, y'all got angry... How are you feeling now???
 
dazeflight
Posts: 481
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RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:45 am

@ C010T3: where's the connection?

Anyway, this definitely puts BER on #4 for LH, even though last week a few blue banana guys where claiming HAM and STR are ahead of Berlin in importance for the LH-group, even though a few of those routes have been transferred from Germanwings to LH - which is actually one of the most interesting things about this announcement.

[Edited 2011-11-09 03:50:59]
 
Rara
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RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:48 am

Wow.    That left my mouth wide open. Looks like Berlin will finally be a full-service Lufthansa airport, 22 years after reunification.

Hard times ahead for Air Berlin!
Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
 
Carmelo
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RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:53 am

Quoting DALCE (Reply 6):
I miss AMS in this list. I would have expected LH to jump in on this route too.


LH would commit suicide IF they do so. Transavia, KLM and Easyjet feeding the route already to its max...AMS is no SA hub so there is only a chance in the future if the demand grows in the future.
Carmelo
 
Someone83
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RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:53 am

Any links to an official announcement regarding this?
 
dazeflight
Posts: 481
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RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:55 am

Here. Contains the same Information.
 
cyba
Posts: 136
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RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:03 pm

Quoting someone83 (Reply 11):

Routes are already loaded on the CRS.
 
by188b
Posts: 550
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RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:21 pm

All the summer LHR flights are still shown as BD operated, wonder if when BD are sold to BA the bookings will be transferred to LH or BA?
next flights : BD LHR-TXL J, FR SXF-STN Y, SN BRU-LHR Y, MA LHR-BUD Y, BA BUD-LHR J, BA LCY-SNN-JFK J, BA JFK-LHR J, BA
 
C010T3
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Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:48 am

RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:25 pm

Quoting dazeflight (Reply 8):
where's the connection?

The silver lining.
 
AIR MALTA
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RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:24 pm

Quoting by188b (Reply 14):
All the summer LHR flights are still shown as BD operated, wonder if when BD are sold to BA the bookings will be transferred to LH or BA?

I expect LH will take over some slots to operate the route on their own.

Ultimately, LH is trying to counter attack Air Berlin. AB needs to be careful there not to lose their dominance there. That can be acheieved with a better integration with OW.
Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
 
dba4u
Posts: 630
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RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:23 pm

With 15 320's stationed in BER... How are the chances we're getting back more 737's in HAM?
Prefer those by far!
 
MUCramp
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RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:34 pm

Anybody know where the 15 A320s come from?
 
tff
Posts: 79
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 3:33 pm

RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:56 pm

There has been some talk in Portuguese forums about the possibility of TP opening LIS-BER as well.

Quoting MUCramp (Reply 18):

The A319s might be the ones from LH Italia.
Remove before flight
 
LH422
Posts: 385
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RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:07 pm

There will be a ceremonial flight with the ninth A380 D-AIMI to be named "Berlin" from BER to FRA on June 3rd. The christening ceremony will probably be right before that. It doesn't seem to be in the booking system yet...
 
stylo777
Posts: 2000
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:42 pm

Quoting MUCramp (Reply 18):
Anybody know where the 15 A320s come from?

new and recently delivered aircraft.
 
SR4ever
Posts: 388
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:19 pm

RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:24 pm

Quoting tolmachevo (Thread starter):
Star Alliance Partner destinations

I think you forgot SCN and LUX, by LG  
 
raptors
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RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:48 pm

I didn't think that LH were allowed to fly BER-LON, or vice versa. Isn't this the reason those flights are curently operated by BMi. Once a deal with BMi has been reached where does this leave LH on the route??????????
SSC/111/146/AR8/AT7/AN3/AB4/6/310/319/20/21/332/3/343/6/703/722/732-9/74L/2/4/F/752/3/772/3/W/E170/190/CR7/9
 
dazeflight
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Joined: Tue Jun 22, 1999 1:32 am

RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:52 pm

Quoting Raptors (Reply 23):
I didn't think that LH were allowed to fly BER-LON, or vice versa. Isn't this the reason those flights are curently operated by BMi. Once a deal with BMi has been reached where does this leave LH on the route??????????

LH already operated this route with their own metal, to different London area airports.
 
IL96M
Posts: 120
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RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:24 pm

Hmmm...

- Only one Transatlantic route and that's EWR with CO/UA, not LH.
- No Far East of any kind from what I can see.


The hubs of FRA and MUC notwithstanding, is this befitting for national capital in a globalised world...?   

IL96M
 
by188b
Posts: 550
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RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:31 pm

Quoting IL96M (Reply 25):
The hubs of FRA and MUC notwithstanding, is this befitting for national capital in a globalised world...?

It would be great if it has more, but this is Berlin, its history and economy means that this is as good as it gets for the current era.
next flights : BD LHR-TXL J, FR SXF-STN Y, SN BRU-LHR Y, MA LHR-BUD Y, BA BUD-LHR J, BA LCY-SNN-JFK J, BA JFK-LHR J, BA
 
rutankrd
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RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:42 pm

Quoting Raptors (Reply 23):
I didn't think that LH were allowed to fly BER-LON, or vice versa. Isn't this the reason those flights are curently operated by BMi. Once a deal with BMi has been reached where does this leave LH on the route??????????

That was over twenty years ago !

Have you heard of European open-skys ?

ANY EU carrier can operate between any airport pair in any member country plus Norway and Switzerland provided they can get appropriate slots !

Todays announcement is a direct assault on AB !
 
davidkunzVIE
Posts: 269
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RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:45 pm

So does that mean both OS and LH will be operating BER-VIE in the future?
DH3 DH4 CR1 CR2 CR7 CR9 F70 732 733 734 73G 738 752 762 763 772 742 743 319 320 321 333 343
 
gabrielchew
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RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:11 pm

Will LH have a fully operating lounge in BER on the 3rd June? Or will things open in dribs and drabs?
http://my.flightmemory.com/shefgab Upcoming flights: LHR-CDG,LHR-BKK-AKL-TBU,EUA-TBU-NAN-WLG,WHK-AKL-BKK-LHR
 
SR4ever
Posts: 388
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RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:21 pm

Quoting IL96M (Reply 25):
- No Far East of any kind from what I can see.

For the time being no, unfortunately.

But we can reasonably expect TG to serve BER in a not-so-distant future.

NH and CA could also join, yet at a later stage.

AB is likely to feel its pain once BER opens.
 
Carmelo
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RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:37 am

Quoting davidkunzVIE (Reply 28):
So does that mean both OS and LH will be operating BER-VIE in the future?

Yes Sir!

I bet LH is making really good money with full acfts on the middle eastern routes. Those people have money and I flew to Beirut via FRA several times...they increase soon!
Carmelo
 
WROORD
Posts: 667
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RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:48 am

If AB reaaligns its long-haul operations at BER, they will have upper hand over LH european network. Anyways, any competition is a healthy thing. I am surprised to see a very poor domestic network. One would think that government would fill most flights.
 
avi8
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RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:33 am

what are the frequencies for these routes? Does this mean berlin is now a hub? how can they station 15 A320's just lke that? Are they all new? are they all from LH?
avi8

Medschool student
 
davidkunzVIE
Posts: 269
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RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:51 am

Actually, they'll only add 6 airplanes to their BER fleet.
DH3 DH4 CR1 CR2 CR7 CR9 F70 732 733 734 73G 738 752 762 763 772 742 743 319 320 321 333 343
 
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Semaex
Posts: 734
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RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:06 am

Quoting WROORD (Reply 32):
If AB reaaligns its long-haul operations at BER, they will have upper hand over LH european network. Anyways, any competition is a healthy thing. I am surprised to see a very poor domestic network. One would think that government would fill most flights.

Couply of points:
I can't see how AB could 'realign' its long-haul operations at BER. Lack of a/c and money are the main issues. And even if they could, I cannot follow you on "having the upper hand over the LH european network". What exactly do you mean by that?
The german domestic network in itself isn't poor, it's just much more diverse in travel than the US, par example. Lot's of high-speed trains can easily, though not on all routes, replace airline service.
And government people flying out of BER will usually have a contract with LH, which funnels them through FRA. Other than that, the most heavily used domestic government route is BER-CGN, which should be well-served already.

For the topic at hand: I'm glad LH decides to put much more effort into the new BER airport, even more than the wildest speculation here on a.net thought of. This is a great restart of the BER-LH marriage and sheds a light of hope on the otherwise heavily battered city of Berlin.
// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
 
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Semaex
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RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:37 am

Quoting avi8 (Reply 33):
what are the frequencies for these routes? Does this mean berlin is now a hub? how can they station 15 A320's just lke that? Are they all new? are they all from LH?

Remember that LH Italia closed its operations just recently. They had a bunch of A319s, which I guess they changed with A320s at MUC or FRA, and those planes are now available to BER. I may be wrong on this though.
What I find fascinating is the huge number of (new) routes ex BER. How can 15 aircraft suffice for so many routes, assuming they are flown more than once daily?
// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
 
columba
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RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:56 am

Quoting davidkunzVIE (Reply 34):
Actually, they'll only add 6 airplanes to their BER fleet.

Yes but I believe LH had only 737s based in Berlin ?? Now it will be all A32x.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
SR4ever
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RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:32 am

Quoting Carmelo (Reply 31):
I bet LH is making really good money with full acfts on the middle eastern route

Especially given the product which they offer. Same a/c as on their shorter European flights 
 
iainbhx
Posts: 133
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RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:00 am

[

Quoting gabrielchew (Reply 29):
Will LH have a fully operating lounge in BER on the 3rd June? Or will things open in dribs and drabs?

Given that all those Bundestag members will be flying from BER instead of TXL, I would imagine that there will be an FTL and SEN lounge open from Day 1 at BER. The TXL lounges are some of the nicer ones in the system, although they have been improving a lot over the last two years.
iainbhx
 
simfanatic
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:09 am

RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:31 am

Quoting gabrielchew (Reply 29):

Yes, there will be a 1600 sqm. Lufthansa Lounge (both SEN and Business) in BER. It will be located at the north end of the main pier.
Don't be a fool, think about what you're writing!
 
Burkhard
Posts: 1916
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:34 pm

RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:38 am

Quoting WROORD (Reply 32):
One would think that government would fill most flights.

You don't know Germany :lol: - there is a clear regulation that inner German travel has to be by rail. Exceptions need to be justified and approved - the time I need to get a flight from FRA to HAM through our administration I'm at least in HAJ by train already.
 
r2rho
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RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:31 am

Wow, this is very significant. So much for LH never wanting to establish a hub at BER... Maybe no long-haul (yet?), but definitely an important European focus city. Destinations grow from 8 to 38, seat capacity grows by 40%, 15 a/c basd there...

This is also a direct torpedo hit to AB's plans. But... there is also U2 that LH will have to compete against, and that won't be easy. In fact, I'm surprised so many routes are being done by LH mainline - I was rather expecting BER to become a big 4U base. OTOH, if LH manages to get the premium traffic at BER, and U2 the low-yield, what, if anything, will be left for AB?

This also shows the untapped potential there was in Berlin, and is further proof that BER has been sized too small. Closing TXL will be a huge mistake...
 
PanHAM
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RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:57 am

Quoting r2rho (Reply 42):
Closing TXL will be a huge mistake...

Not only I say that since years. Include THF in that line.....

Looking at the test LH is running at BER, or will be running, 30 new destinations sound massive, but some will be only served on the weekends, increasing from 9 to 15 based aircraft and 40% seats gives a better idea of the scale. It has to be pointed out that this is only possible by establishing a "company within the company" with a workforce paid 20% less than the rest. In turn there will be a massive increase in jobs. That is all perfectly alright, the company has made a decision to show presence but it has to be economically viable. They will have 2 years tp prove that and I wish LH and its employees at BER good luck.

Meanwhile, politicians are calling for a third runway..... wait, they had 6, closed 4 and want to build a third now? Does money grow on trees?
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nclmedic
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RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:08 am

This may have been discussed on here already, but why isn't LH operating any long-haul flights at all ex-BER? I appreciate their main hubs are in FRA, MUC and DUS, but surely there is at least a small market for flights to the US on their own metal?

Great to see MAN on the list though. Berlin, much like MAD, seems impossible to get to from the North East!
 
Humberside
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RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:51 am

Quoting tolmachevo (Thread starter):
London (LHR) Lufthansa

As this is taken from the LH press release, does this confirm that LH are 'retaining' LHR-BER when bmi is sold?
Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
 
PanHAM
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RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:10 am

Quoting nclmedic (Reply 44):
This may have been discussed on here already, but why isn't LH operating any long-haul flights at all ex-BER? I

because there are not enough passengers.and they have three hubs already from which they fly longhaul, that is more than any other European carrier....and I did not count ZRH and VIE. What LH does in BER is ambitious, challenging and certainly, to a point with some predatory intention, If it does not work they will scale down again but not -. unlike BA - give up a regional market altogether.

And, yes, BER is a regional market, the cooky crumbles elsewhere and Germany is polycentric. Alwys has been and the geographic location of BER is rather a disadvantage, it is not in the center but in a remote north - eastern corner.

.
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Orlik
Posts: 20
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RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:53 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 43):
Meanwhile, politicians are calling for a third runway..... wait, they had 6, closed 4 and want to build a third now? Does money grow on trees

If you calculate this this way, you are right, On the other side there is lot of synergy to handle one airport instead of three, starting with running and maintenance cost, better usage of infrastructure and on the revenue side many bussiness oportunities, relating to critical mass of passangers. In this respect it fucntions like snowball, because you can add here many routes, which you cannot dream about if the traffic is in "subcritical" scale - , and those new routes could fill also spare seats on exisiting ones encouraging exisiting providers and new entries.
 
dazeflight
Posts: 481
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 1999 1:32 am

RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:14 am

Quoting r2rho (Reply 42):
This also shows the untapped potential there was in Berlin, and is further proof that BER has been sized too small. Closing TXL will be a huge mistake...

Up until a few years ago, the average complaint from Western Germany was how the shitty city of Berlin could even think of building this overdimensioned airport. The announcement we are discussing in this thread is a direct result of the decision to close THF and TXL, increasing competition by putting all airlines into one place.

Apart from that, construction permissions are already available for two satellite terminals boosting up capacity up to 45-50 Mio. pax. That is a lot of room to grow. Plus, it seems that BER won't have the problem of DUS or MUC being stuffed up with CRJs and the like, taking runway capacity without adding many pax.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 43):
Meanwhile, politicians are calling for a third runway..... wait, they had 6, closed 4 and want to build a third now? Does money grow on trees?

Most politicians are currently claiming that there are no current plans for a third runway, even though of course it's clear that the third one has to be built at some point in the future. Regarding your counting of 6 runways, you should maybe not withold that this equaled 3 independently usable runways. Four of the six runways would have to be renovated or almost rebuilt for continued use; only two of the six runways have been more than 3000 Meters in length. So, two independently usable runways with a length of more than 3000 meters have been replaced by... two independently usable runways with a length of more than 3000 meters.

General Aviation and Governmental flights should have moved / stayed to / at Tegel though. I guess there's no way around a mid-term move at least of GA to Schönhagen. Seems to work with Egelsbach in FFM as well.

[Edited 2011-11-10 03:22:41]
 
PanHAM
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RE: New LH Routes From Berlin

Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:20 am

I am not advocating the splitting of the passenger services likt it's done in ROM or MIl, not to mention London. But they should have retained at least one airport as general aviation field and government airport. Passengers in Berlin will b delayed more than often because some head of state arrives with priority privileges.

Quoting dazeflight (Reply 48):
So, two independently usable runways with a length of more than 3000 meters have been replaced by... two independently usable runways with a length of more than 3000 meters.

Well, not really, especially not since only few of the aircraft using Belrin airports really need the full 3000 meters.

Fact is, we have THF closed which is costing the taqxpayers much more than if it would cost as an operating airport, infrastructure at TXL will be destroyed with continuing costs for the taxpayers for years to come and as you stated, a general aviation airport is inevitable in the near future which again will cost money. As a stop gap, TXL could have been retained as a military aiport which would have left the door open for future joint usage military ( GA.
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