DID747
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Why No Continental Wide Body On LAX-HNL

Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:29 am

last summer, I flew LAX-HNL-LAX only on B737, I did not have the aircraft choise, they were full each time. I would like to know why CO does't fly the 767-400 on that route, any answer,
Waimanalo
 
nonfirm
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RE: Why No Continental Wide Body On LAX-HNL

Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:34 am

Cost. Plus the demand CO sees might not warrant a bigger aircraft.
 
QANTAS747-438
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RE: Why No Continental Wide Body On LAX-HNL

Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:45 am

I noticed a several changes in the HNL service ever since the UA/CO merger. I've noticed the HNL-LAX redeye is gone, or virtually gone. They used to have 2 of them and now have zero, though some days in the week may have 1. Also noticed UA had 4 or 5 LAX-HNL flights, but have cut that down to 3 UA flts and 1 CO flt as the total LAX-HNL flight schedule. The CO 738 on the route is always full too.

My guess to the question is that the HNL service is being given to the UA side of things, while CO retains a token flight.
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United1
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RE: Why No Continental Wide Body On LAX-HNL

Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:08 pm

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 2):
They used to have 2 of them and now have zero, though some days in the week may have 1. Also noticed UA had 4 or 5 LAX-HNL flights, but have cut that down to 3 UA flts and 1 CO flt as the total LAX-HNL flight schedule. The CO 738 on the route is always full too.

It's the usual seasonal reduction...this summer UA was flying 5 flights and CO was operating twice a day. I would guess they will be back this summer.

Quoting DID747 (Thread starter):
I would like to know why CO does't fly the 767-400 on that route, any answer,

Yield more than likely was not high enough to warrant CO using one of their limited numbers of wide body aircraft.
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tsnamm
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RE: Why No Continental Wide Body On LAX-HNL

Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:03 pm

Quoting United1 (Reply 3):
Yield more than likely was not high enough to warrant CO using one of their limited numbers of wide body aircraft.



They moved it off LAX/HNL to IAH for either GIG or FRA when they added them....this was a main motivator for the UA/CO hook up ...lack of wide body lift on the CO side....as CO added more destinations fro IAH they had to down gauge from other routes...EWR/MAD,EWR/AMS, LAX/HNL etc....all became narrowbodies when the need for widebodies for IAH occurred...
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: Why No Continental Wide Body On LAX-HNL

Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:17 pm

Having flown to HNL on a handful of occasions from various left coast embarkations points. I've always noticed the larger airframes flying to the islands originate at SFO and less at LAX. CO did of course use the larger airframe on the non-stop service EWR-HNL an eleven hour flight.
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Rdh3e
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RE: Why No Continental Wide Body On LAX-HNL

Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:07 pm

Quoting United1 (Reply 3):
It's the usual seasonal reduction...this summer UA was flying 5 flights and CO was operating twice a day. I would guess they will be back this summer.

This is correct, with I believe also an 8th daily flight once a week (at least there was during Q3).
 
tommy767
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RE: Why No Continental Wide Body On LAX-HNL

Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:13 pm

CO has shurnk the size of their aircraft in the LAX-HNL market over the last 6 years or so. I remember when I started college in LA they were still flying the 764 in 2005, then it became a 757 by 2008, and finally a 739 by graduation. The year after I graduated they also launched SNA-HNL with a 738.

Also interesting to note I want to say that CO used only operate a stray 757 on EWR-LAX a few yeras back but currently they are operating 4-5 daily 752/753 on the route since the merger.
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DID747
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RE: Why No Continental Wide Body On LAX-HNL

Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:48 pm

Where is the fantastic time of "the proud bird of the Pacific" on the LAX-HNL route..........................
Waimanalo
 
steex
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RE: Why No Continental Wide Body On LAX-HNL

Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:57 pm

Quoting DID747 (Reply 8):
Where is the fantastic time of "the proud bird of the Pacific" on the LAX-HNL route...

I believe the time of US-based (and most other privatized) carriers flying a specific bird for pride is in the same place as that livery in that photo - the past.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: Why No Continental Wide Body On LAX-HNL

Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:20 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 7):
The year after I graduated they also launched SNA-HNL with a 738.

I think the SNA-Hawaii routes are on a 73G, not 738.
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: Why No Continental Wide Body On LAX-HNL

Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:05 pm

Aren't the only airlines who curently fly widebodies on LAX-HNL are HA, DL, and UA?
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codc10
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RE: Why No Continental Wide Body On LAX-HNL

Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:45 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 13):
Aren't the only airlines who curently fly widebodies on LAX-HNL are HA, DL, and UA?

I believe so. For today:

DL (2x 753, 1x 763)
UA (2x 763)
CO (1x 738, 1x 739)
AA (3x 752)
HA (2x 332)
 
Ford3motor
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RE: Why No Continental Wide Body On LAX-HNL

Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:02 pm

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 14):
I believe so. For today:

DL (2x 753, 1x 763)
UA (2x 763)
CO (1x 738, 1x 739)
AA (3x 752)
HA (2x 332)

You are correct. ...and UA still operates 3x 763 on Thursday through Sunday.

As of now, when the holidays and heavier travel seasons arrive, UA/CO will still be operating 5-7 flights per day depending on the day of the week. 2 CO 737s and 3 UA 767s with 1 or 2 UA 757s added for the 6 and 7 flight days.
 
BCEaglesCO757
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RE: Why No Continental Wide Body On LAX-HNL

Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:48 pm

For years it seemed that 767-400 went out half full. I'd tell people at work skip the IAH-HNL and just go through LAX because of all the open seats.

With us in dire need of Widebodies, those birds were put were they were needed, and the 738/9's are now pretty full out of LAX.

Everything has been right-sized,plus UA has widebodies on the route already.
 
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RWA380
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RE: Why No Continental Wide Body On LAX-HNL

Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:56 pm

I remember flying the Air Mike DC-10's from LAX to HNL, with the merger livery. Nice flight, good service.
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malaysia
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RE: Why No Continental Wide Body On LAX-HNL

Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:52 pm

A bit off topic, but I always could non-rev successfully in first class several times when DL had the 764 LAX-HNL flights, the rear of the cabins were not that full. (SLC-HNL is a different story) I think at some point the market gets over-saturated out of LAX.
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fun2fly
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RE: Why No Continental Wide Body On LAX-HNL

Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:12 am

Just got off the 777 service from HNL to ORD Monday. Is that the only 777 service on Hawaii to the mainland? They used to go to LAX on 777's also as I took it last trip. Poor service and they lost the bags both ways so I'd recommend going via a LAX narrowbody next time!
 
QANTAS747-438
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RE: Why No Continental Wide Body On LAX-HNL

Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:29 am

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 18):
Just got off the 777 service from HNL to ORD Monday. Is that the only 777 service on Hawaii to the mainland?

No, for UA, they have at least 2 to SFO, 1 to DEN, and 1 to ORD.
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atct
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RE: Why No Continental Wide Body On LAX-HNL

Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:31 am

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 10):
I think the SNA-Hawaii routes are on a 73G, not 738.

Its was a 737-800 last year, not sure about this year.

ATCT
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DID747
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RE: Why No Continental Wide Body On LAX-HNL

Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:29 am

may be CO-UA will use the 787 on LAX-HNL,would be very interresting...
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klwright69
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RE: Why No Continental Wide Body On LAX-HNL

Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:54 am

Quoting DID747 (Reply 20):
may be CO-UA will use the 787 on LAX-HNL,would be very interresting...

I doubt that. I think those birds are for long thin routes... Possibly EWR-ICN.

I recall CO having a 747 on LAX-HNL to feed Australia, NZ, and GUM via HNL. Back in the day when CO was much smaller, LAX-HNL was a real key route in their network. It is definitely no longer a key route. The larger birds were needed elsewhere. CO has changed (into UA) and so has that route.

[Edited 2011-11-17 03:58:07]
 
codc10
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RE: Why No Continental Wide Body On LAX-HNL

Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:48 pm

Quoting atct (Reply 19):
Its was a 737-800 last year, not sure about this year.

I don't believe any of the SNA-Hawaii flights have operated with 737-800.
 
Rdh3e
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RE: Why No Continental Wide Body On LAX-HNL

Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:13 pm

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 22):
I don't believe any of the SNA-Hawaii flights have operated with 737-800.

For a fact, SNA-HNL has always been 73G. I can confirm this.
 
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RWA380
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RE: Why No Continental Wide Body On LAX-HNL

Sat Nov 19, 2011 9:36 pm

Quoting malaysia (Reply 16):
Quoting malaysia (Reply 16):
I always could non-rev successfully in first class several times when DL had the 764 LAX-HNL flights, the rear of the cabins were not that full. (SLC-HNL is a different story) I think at some point the market gets over-saturated out of LAX.

Word dat, When I was non-rev'ing on DL, living in Hawaii at least 4-6 times a year, this was when they had non-stops to DFW & ATL on the L15's, I sat only once Y non-stop to ATL. While you almost always got F into LAX even if you connected onward to ATL, the non-stops to DFW & ATL were never available, this was pre SLC non-stops, which I've never been upgraded on, yes LAX was 3-4 L10's daily and F was usually available.
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slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Why No Continental Wide Body On LAX-HNL

Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:58 pm

UA flies wides already and that widebody is better used elsewhere on a route that needs it. Don't be too shocked if UA follows the trend and goes to more narrow bodies on LAX-HNL they have multiple plane types very capable of the route and if they retire more or need them elsewhere this route will be a prime candidate for more narrowbody shifting

The route i like is SNA-HNL to avoid all the lax headache the 737-700 is a great plane too
 
N62NA
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RE: Why No Continental Wide Body On LAX-HNL

Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:06 pm

Why No Continental Wide Body On LAX-HNL

These days, it's all about using the smallest possible plane on any domestic (including Hawaii) route. If the ERJ / CRJ could do transcons or mainland Hawaii, I'm sure the airlines would love to use those! 
 
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: Why No Continental Wide Body On LAX-HNL

Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:19 pm

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 25):
UA flies wides already and that widebody is better used elsewhere on a route that needs it. Don't be too shocked if UA follows the trend and goes to more narrow bodies on LAX-HNL they have multiple plane types very capable of the route and if they retire more or need them elsewhere this route will be a prime candidate for more narrowbody shifting

753s would be the perfect aircraft for some of the Hawaiian flying. Low ASM cost, nice stage length for that aircraft.

CO/UA Aircraft capable of Hawaii (excluding 3 class UA aircraft)

738 16F 144Y Total 160 (can have weight restrictions with heavy winds)
739ER 20 F 153Y Total 173 (can have weight restrictions with heavy winds - more restricted than 738)
752 16 F 159Y Total 175 (F seats are sleepers, not common with most Hawaiian services)
753 24 F 192Y Total 216
764H 20F 236Y Total 256 (Select west coast SFO, plus any American hubs-HNL
752UA 24 F 158Y Total 182
763UA 34F 210Y Total 244 (these being converted to 2 class international birds soon)
772UA 36F 312Y Total 348 (Selected West Coast and longer haul Hunb-Hawaii flights)

Once full integration is completed, it would make sense to operate 753, PMUA 752, 764H and PMUA772s to Hawaii from major markets with 738s/73Gs on smaller West Coast Hawaii markets. 739s are too restricted, PMCO 752s are needed elsewhere and UA 763s won't be configured for Hawaii. Note that about half of the 753 fleet is not ETOPS, but they could be upgraded or a subfleet of ex AirTran aircraft could be routed to Hawaii.
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1337Delta764
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RE: Why No Continental Wide Body On LAX-HNL

Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:21 pm

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 27):
Note that about half of the 753 fleet is not ETOPS, but they could be upgraded or a subfleet of ex AirTran aircraft could be routed to Hawaii.

AirTran never operated 753s. I assume you mean American Trans Air, or ATA.
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DualQual
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RE: Why No Continental Wide Body On LAX-HNL

Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:28 pm

Smisek is too busy selling widebodies to try and fly them.
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