Gonzalo
Topic Author
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531 Pax On A 747 300?

Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:00 pm

Reading this AvHerald report I was stunned by the number of pax on board this flight. Even if the number includes the crew it seems to be more people on board than seats available. The typical configuration for this model allows between 405 and 470 seats depending on 2 or 3 class config. Am' I missing something here ? Or are this Hajj flights a real mess on board ??

Oh and another thing, they had to divert because the original destination only operates in daylight ( no runway lights at all ) and they landed in the alternate at 03:00 AM local.... Who plans a flight to a daylight-only airport and ends up landing at 03:00 AM ??

http://www.avherald.com/h?article=4462719c&opt=0

Looking forward for your opinions !!!

Rgds.

G.

[Edited 2011-11-16 11:03:23]
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scarebus03
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RE: 531 Pax On A 747 300?

Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:06 pm

Entirely possible as the JAL -300SR variants could seat over 600 pax in one class

Brgds
No faults found......................
 
simfanatic
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RE: 531 Pax On A 747 300?

Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:28 pm

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):

It probably was a single-class aircraft, in a high-density Y-configuration. Have a look at Corsairfly's 747s, they seat 582 passengers. Also, nobody would plan a flight in knowledge of a night curfew in Yola, so I guess the flight was heavily delayed at Madinah, which is not significant to the report you are referring to, as it probably is no reason for the incident itself.
Don't be a fool, think about what you're writing!
 
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Stitch
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RE: 531 Pax On A 747 300?

Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:28 pm

The maximum certified passenger count for the 747-300 is 624.
 
rikkus67
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RE: 531 Pax On A 747 300?

Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:32 pm

Although from Wikipedia, this should be a fairly accurate comparison (747-400D variant):

"... The 747-400D (Domestic) is a high density seating model developed for short-haul domestic Japanese flights. The aircraft is capable of seating a maximum of 568 passengers in a 2-class configuration or 660 passengers in a single-class configuration. The −400D lacks the wing tip extensions and winglets included on other variants. The benefits of winglets would be minimal on short routes. The −400D may be converted to the long range version when needed. "

I would imagine the same holds true for the 743D...less the wingtips, of course...
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Clydenairways
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RE: 531 Pax On A 747 300?

Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:36 pm

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
The typical configuration for this model allows between 405 and 470 seats depending on 2 or 3 class config. Am' I missing something here ? Or are this Hajj flights a real mess on board ??

Yes but in a high density config you can get many more. And this goes for any type, not just the 747

Corsair have 582 seats on the 747-400 and the 777-300 is certified for 550

The A330-300 also has max 440seats.

All of these would have seat pitch no worse than a 130Y 737-200, 189 737-800 and 180 in an A320 and European charter carriers have all been operating with this kind of pitch for 40years.
 
Viscount724
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RE: 531 Pax On A 747 300?

Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:14 pm

Quoting scarebus03 (Reply 1):
Entirely possible as the JAL -300SR variants could seat over 600 pax in one class

JL had 546 seats in their final 744D domestic configuration. Without the 80-seat business class cabin (more like premium economy) it would have been close to 600 seats.
http://www.jal.co.jp/en/aircraft/conf/744d.html

I think NH still has a few 744Ds in domestic service with 565 seats (23 F and 542 Y). Without the F cabin in the nose it would be close to 600 (Corsairfly has 54 in the the nose). NH 744D seat map (in Japanese only).
http://www.ana.co.jp/dom/inflight/seatmap/74p/

Quoting simfanatic (Reply 2):
Have a look at Corsairfly's 747s, they seat 582 passengers.

And it would be close to 600 without their small 5-abreast premium Y cabin in the forward part of the upper deck.
 
citationjet
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RE: 531 Pax On A 747 300?

Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:25 pm

Quoting rikkus67 (Reply 4):
Although from Wikipedia, this should be a fairly accurate comparison

The ONLY accurate source for maximum certified passenger capacity is the 747-300's FAA TCDS A20WE. It states:

For 747-300 and 747-100B SUD the total passenger capacity is limited to:

660 passengers with 5 pair of Type "A" exits on the main deck plus one pair of Type "A"exits on
the upper deck. Main deck limited to 550 and upper deck limited to 110 if in compliance with the
requirements of modified Special Condition No. 25-71-NW-3, transmitted to Boeing by FAA letter
dated August 3, 1981.) See NOTE 9.

550 passengers with 4 pair of Type "A" exits on the main deck limited to 440 and upper deck
limited to 110 if in compliance with the requirements of modified Special Condition No.
25-71-NW-3, transmitted to Boeing by FAA letter dated August 3, 1981.
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
Gonzalo
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RE: 531 Pax On A 747 300?

Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:59 pm

Thanks to all for your feedback about the seats available, I was way under the max capacity for some versions of the type.
  

But I'm still have problems to understand why the flight was initiated when it was clear from the first minute that they couldn't reach the Yola Airport within the operation hours for the airlfield...  

Rgds.

G.
Gear Up!!: DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20-21 / B732 / B763 / B789
 
simfanatic
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RE: 531 Pax On A 747 300?

Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:57 pm

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 8):

Probably they were hoping they could fix a special landing slot for the flight with the ATC. Usually you can still land at an airport with night curfew if you are delayed and willing to pay for the excess ATC and landing fees.
Don't be a fool, think about what you're writing!
 
Gonzalo
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RE: 531 Pax On A 747 300?

Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:14 pm

Quoting simfanatic (Reply 9):
Usually you can still land at an airport with night curfew if you are delayed and willing to pay for the excess ATC and landing fees.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but apparently the runway doesn't have lights ( no centerline, no edge, nothing ).
If that is the case, there is nothing related with curfews or landing fees, it's a matter of critical safety equipment.

Rgds.

G.
Gear Up!!: DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20-21 / B732 / B763 / B789
 
tdscanuck
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RE: 531 Pax On A 747 300?

Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:37 am

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 10):
If that is the case, there is nothing related with curfews or landing fees, it's a matter of critical safety equipment.

This is why airplanes have landing lights...it's certainly not preferable but it is entirely possible to safely land on a runway with no built-in lights.

Tom.
 
b737100
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RE: 531 Pax On A 747 300?

Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:47 am

I remember reading many years ago there was an emergency evacuation flight on a QF747 of a town in imminent danger and they put a record number of passengers on board due to the life or death situation.

Does anybody remember the details?
Boeing 737 sunjet service
 
rb211-524h
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RE: 531 Pax On A 747 300?

Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:16 am

@b737100 - VH-EBB
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © George Canciani

operated Darwin-Sydney as QF007K with Cyclone Tracy evacuees - December 29, 1974

Aircraft carried 674 passengers and 23 crew which was a world record Boeing 747 uplift

[Edited 2011-11-17 18:21:17]
 
joelyboy911
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RE: 531 Pax On A 747 300?

Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:35 am

Quoting RB211-524H (Reply 13):
Aircraft carried 674 passengers and 23 crew which was a world record Boeing 747 uplift

Where did they all sit? Or were some standing? Seats in the cargo hold? I don't quite get it.
Flown: NZ, NY, SJ, QF, UA, AC, EI, BE, TP, AF
 
BoeingVista
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RE: 531 Pax On A 747 300?

Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:29 am

Quoting RB211-524H (Reply 13):
@b737100 - VH-EBB

operated Darwin-Sydney as QF007K with Cyclone Tracy evacuees - December 29, 1974

Aircraft carried 674 passengers and 23 crew which was a world record Boeing 747 uplift
Quoting joelyboy911 (Reply 14):

Where did they all sit? Or were some standing? Seats in the cargo hold? I don't quite get it.

Yeah, this sounds odd.. Surely it would have taken several days to change the seating configuration to such a high density.

[Edited 2011-11-17 20:30:07]
BV
 
AFGMEL
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RE: 531 Pax On A 747 300?

Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:52 am

The world record surely has to be the LY flight which carried in excess of 1087 passengers.

Quote:
The operation set a world record for single-flight passenger load on May 24, 1991 when an El Al 747 carried 1,122 passengers to Israel (1,087 passengers were registered, but dozens of children hid in their mothers' robes).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Solomon
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rfields5421
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RE: 531 Pax On A 747 300?

Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:17 pm

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 15):
Yeah, this sounds odd.. Surely it would have taken several days to change the seating configuration to such a high density.

No reconfig - it was an emergency evacuation - and yes folks were standing up during the aisles. I remember the stories and photos in the Stars & Stripes newspaper.

Just four months later - we saw similar conditions as the NVA closed in on Saigon. I've seen over 300 people come off a C-141 (94 seats max) and close to 250 come off a C-130 (75 seats max).

A VNAF pilot landed an O-1 on the USS Midway with seven people in the two seat aircraft (him, his wife and five children).

When there are emergencies, sometimes the only limiting factor is the weight.
 
HBJZA
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RE: 531 Pax On A 747 300?

Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:49 pm

What about this El Al 747 that carried 1087 people on an evacuation flight?

Full article on the link
http://www.nytimes.com/1991/05/26/wo...exult-as-airlift-is-completed.html

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