tcasalert
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SQ - Why Not SIN-JNB-GRU?

Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:57 pm

Just curious as to the reasons why SQ fly SIN-BCN-GRU, a trip of almost 12000 miles, when they could do SIN-JNB-GRU, almost a direct track and one would think higher loads and more connections from JNB? After all SQ already have good inroads into Europe through many cities, could they not add it onto the JNB route instead?

Just seems a very odd routing that I've never fully understood, there must be a reason for it  
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cchan
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RE: SQ - Why Not SIN-JNB-GRU?

Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:04 pm

Probably because SA already flies JNB-GRU.
 
usflyer msp
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RE: SQ - Why Not SIN-JNB-GRU?

Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:15 pm

BCN-GRU is a denser route than JNB-GRU and they are able to get feed from their *A partner JK at BCN. At JNB they would be in direct competition with SA on the route.
 
roseflyer
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RE: SQ - Why Not SIN-JNB-GRU?

Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:25 pm

SQ has a habit of this. Flying SIN-DME-IAH is similar, although not as bad. SIN-ICN-IAH adds 1 mile to the great circle route, but they go after the traffic DME-IAH so that justifies the extra flight time.

I wonder if BCN-GRU traffic is enough to justify flying an additional 20% over SIN-GRU. The one benefit of SIN-GRU is that there is little competition that offers a connection near the great circle route.
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kiwiandrew

RE: SQ - Why Not SIN-JNB-GRU?

Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:40 pm

Quoting TCASAlert (Thread starter):
when they could do SIN-JNB-GRU, almost a direct track and one would think higher loads and more connections from JNB?

Could they? What makes you think that South Africa would grant them fifth freedom rights for three flights per week directly competing with what is reputed to be one of SA's most profitable routes? MH have been limited for years to twice weekly for JNB-CPT-EZE.
 
AngMoh
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RE: SQ - Why Not SIN-JNB-GRU?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 12:29 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 3):
SQ has a habit of this. Flying SIN-DME-IAH is similar, although not as bad. SIN-ICN-IAH adds 1 mile to the great circle route, but they go after the traffic DME-IAH so that justifies the extra flight time.

I wonder if BCN-GRU traffic is enough to justify flying an additional 20% over SIN-GRU. The one benefit of SIN-GRU is that there is little competition that offers a connection near the great circle route.

There is very little traffic going from SIN all the way to GRU just as there is little traffic going from SIN to IAH.

I have flown SIN-DME-IAH once and I was amazed. SIN-DME was >95% full, the vast majority being Russians. In DME, most of the passangers got out and maybe 15% of the passengers or less continued to IAH. I expected an empty DME-IAH flight, but instead it was packed with every single seat occupied (100% load factor), again all Russians and I did not see a single american among the new passengers....
 
C010T3
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RE: SQ - Why Not SIN-JNB-GRU?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 12:45 am

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 4):
Could they? What makes you think that South Africa would grant them fifth freedom rights for three flights per week directly competing with what is reputed to be one of SA's most profitable routes? MH have been limited for years to twice weekly for JNB-CPT-EZE.

That's exactly the problem. South Africa does not allow it. Plain and simple.
 
2travel2know2
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RE: SQ - Why Not SIN-JNB-GRU?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 12:54 am

If South Africa doesn't want SIN-JNB-GRU, how would they react to SIN-CPT/DUR-GRU instead?
As it was said before JNB-GRU is one of SA stellar routes, most probably there may be a demand between CPT or DUR and Brazil too
GRU via CPT or DUR may work, even if almost all passengers might fly either of the 2 segments and not all the way between SIN and GRU..
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usflyer msp
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RE: SQ - Why Not SIN-JNB-GRU?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:08 am

If SQ wanted to really be adventurous they would fly SIN to LAD/MPM to GRU. They could fill the flights to LAD/MPM with traffic from China and the LAD/MPM flights with VFR traffic and Brazilians doing business in Angola or Mozambique. In the case of LAD however, I doubt the Angolan government would allow it. They protect TAAG at all costs.
 
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Semaex
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RE: SQ - Why Not SIN-JNB-GRU?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:28 am

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 8):

If I were to go from China to Angola or Mozambique, I would not detour via SIN. I'd take EK.
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cchan
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RE: SQ - Why Not SIN-JNB-GRU?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:20 am

Quoting Semaex (Reply 9):
If I were to go from China to Angola or Mozambique, I would not detour via SIN. I'd take EK.

SQ would not be very competitive against EK and ET. Luggage allowance is a very important consideration for many Africa bound passengers.
 
usflyer msp
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RE: SQ - Why Not SIN-JNB-GRU?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:49 am

Quoting cchan (Reply 10):
Luggage allowance is a very important consideration for many Africa bound passengers.

That is more of a West African thing, where traders go to China and bring tons of stuff back to sell or emigrants come back to visit bearing tons of gifts. Most of the travellers to MPM and LAD are business people that do not pack nearly as heavy as West Africans. Additionally, SQ specializes in F and C class travel so the baggage allowances really wont matter as much anyway.
 
CODCAIAH
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RE: SQ - Why Not SIN-JNB-GRU?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:53 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 3):
SQ has a habit of this. Flying SIN-DME-IAH is similar, although not as bad. SIN-ICN-IAH adds 1 mile to the great circle route, but they go after the traffic DME-IAH so that justifies the extra flight time.

Huh?

SIN-ICN-IAH,+SIN-DME-IAH">http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=SIN-ICN-IAH,+SIN-DME-IAH
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qf002
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RE: SQ - Why Not SIN-JNB-GRU?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:32 am

Quoting CODCAIAH (Reply 12):
Huh

This is what they mean:

http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=S...STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=&MAP-STYLE=

It's shorter to go via ICN (almost bang on the Great Circle (nonstop) route), but they chose to make the longer flight via DME because it's more viable/more traffic/more profit.

[Edited 2011-11-19 20:39:27]
 
mandala499
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RE: SQ - Why Not SIN-JNB-GRU?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:36 am

Quoting TCASAlert (Thread starter):
Just seems a very odd routing that I've never fully understood, there must be a reason for it

1. Fifth Freedom Traffic (pax) rights
2. Cargo Traffic
3. ETOPS considerations

If there are few SIN-GRU pax, then the route is basically to pick up 5th freedom passengers on BCN-GRU.
ETOPS consideration affects the JNB-GRU sector of they choose to go that way. JNB-GRU would not be a problem with ETOPS and the wind, but GRU-JNB would be!

The stuff that goes SIN-GRU vv, is probably only the stuff below the main deck!
Same with SIN-DME-IAH...

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 3):
SQ has a habit of this.

It's no surprise then is it?   

Mandala499
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BommerJan
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RE: SQ - Why Not SIN-JNB-GRU?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:37 am

I flew SQ BCN-SIN-BCN in August and both flights were full, I saw in the transit que coming from GRU and conituing to SIN when I boarded in BCN, so very little transit traffic, both flights BCN-SIN and SIN BCN were 95% full.

Over Xmas I am booked to fly BCN-GRU-BCN on SQ and when I booked in October most of the flights around Xmas were sold out already.

From a strategy point of view it is obvious: with MXP-JFK coming up for SQ in January within *A SQ has a task of attacking oneworld/skyteam markets. And it seems to work. LIving in BCN I would not consider IB and am very happy to have SQ as an alternative.
 
BommerJan
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RE: SQ - Why Not SIN-JNB-GRU?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:43 am

sorry, I meant to say "I saw 11 transit passenger in the queue coming from GRU and continuing to SIN when I boarded in BCN." somehow some text was swallowed  
 
airbazar
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RE: SQ - Why Not SIN-JNB-GRU?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:29 pm

SQ's strategy has always been to capitalize on 5th freedom markets. JNB-GRU is not a significant market. When you really think about it, SIN is not very well positioned to be a global air market and they know that. The only way SQ can attain growth is by going after 5th freedom markets. They did this in Europe for many years in the past, with lots of tags until the LCCs pretty much took that market away. They've had mixed results in their TATL and TPAC routes. And now they are venturing into the Europe-S.America market.

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