cjpmaestro
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What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:10 pm

The potential for AMR to head into bankruptcy continues to be all over the news and more prominent in each story is how a merger with US Airways would be good (like UA/CO and Delta). After talks with pilots collapsed and the AMR board is now not meeting for the rest of the year, it does appear that this line of thinking could become reality. I know that it takes two to tango and US would have to want to be involved and they are doing well right now without the problems of AMR, but what would a merged AA and US look like?
 
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JBo
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:41 pm

Well from a visual standpoint, the basic US livery with American titles and the AA logo on the tail would look striking.
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LAXdude1023
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:42 pm

A labor nightmare.

AA and US have the worst labor relations of any airline. Putting the two together without some sort of agreement between the two would be crazy.

That being said, I am 100% certain that US (or simply just Doug Parker) will make a play for AA at some point because of how weak AA is.
It is what it is...
 
wingnutmn
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:53 pm

US still hasn't merged all labor from the US/HP merger. Imagine how disgruntled pilots would be if US attempted to buy or merge with AA. There would be absolutely zero chance of any pilot agreement.

Route structure could be ok though. Dominant up and down the east coast with hubs in JFK/LGA/DCA/CLT/MIA, Midwest is covered with DFW/ORD, west is weak with only PHX and a smaller presence in LAX.

This would be a much better merger if they could find a way to include AS in it. That would solidify a west coast operation to include a true coast to coast domination.

You could re-establish international hubs to include most Asia flying out of SEA/ORD/LAX, Europe out of JFK/ORD/CLT. Expand to africa out of CLT/MIA, and south america out of LAX/DFW/MIA. In this scenario, you would turn PHX into a mostly domestic hub, and have just your primary trunk international routes to europe and asia out of DFW. Cost wise this would make sense, but in reality it would never happen.

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UNITED777ORD
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:54 pm

Airline Name: American Airlines
Livery: Current US Airways
Airline Alliance: One World
CEO: Doug Parker
Headquarters: Fort Worth, TX
Hubs: DFW, CLT, ORD, PHL, MIA, PHX, LAX, JFK
Focus Cities: BOS, LGA, DCA,
Aircraft: 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 738, 752, 762, 763, 787, 772, 773
 
rfields5421
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:35 pm

Quoting United777ORD (Reply 4):
Airline Name: American Airlines
Livery: Current US Airways
Airline Alliance: One World

And the Cactus callsign would disappear - leaving American
 
LGWflyer
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:40 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 5):
And the Cactus callsign would disappear - leaving American

That would be a shame if that happened, I think Cactus is a brilliant callsign.
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par13del
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:24 pm

Quoting wingnutmn (Reply 3):
US still hasn't merged all labor from the US/HP merger. Imagine how disgruntled pilots would be if US attempted to buy or merge with AA. There would be absolutely zero chance of any pilot agreement.

How exactly is this hurting the current version of US, they seem to be doing fine letting the unions fight it out between themselves while the company continues on as if nothing is taking place.
 
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American 767
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:26 pm

Quoting United777ORD (Reply 4):
Aircraft: 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 738, 752, 762, 763, 787, 772, 773

I would not mention the 752 and the 762 because those are getting old and they are on the way out. By the time the merger takes place, if it ever does, the retirement of these aircraft will be near. If you mention the 752 and 762 then why not mentioning the Super 80? And I would add also the A320NEO Series to the above list.
I think also that you can mention the CRJ and E-Jets for regional routes or low capacity medium haul routes.

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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:39 pm

I think an AA/US merger would be an incredible challenge for all involved. However, if the carrier were to overcome all the labor/network issues, I think a renewed and larger AA (as the merged carrier would obviously be named) would have great coverage of many major markets. Hubs at DFW, CLT, MIA, ORD, PHL, and PHX would be a solid domestic network. I think in this merger scenario the LAX and JFK hubs would be diminished and reduced to focus city status. Firstly, PHL can serve virtually the same role as AA's JFK hub does now with considerably less competition and much greater connectivity. JFK could still continue to serve the large O&D markets as is, such as LHR, CDG, GRU, and NRT. The same with LAX. LAX could continue to have service to the major O&D markets like NRT, LHR, and PVG, as well as the large domestic markets, but PHX could serve as a way to bolster AA's Western presence, which has been paltry since the failed takeovers of AirCal and Reno Air. Of course, WN's presence in PHX presents a formidable challenge as well, due to the low yields and heavy competition. The biggest issue that an AA/US merger does not overcome is the carrier's lack of a network in the Asia/Pacific region, and it provides no opportunities for growth in the region. PHX is not well located for an Asian connecting hub. Sure, a PHX-NRT could easily be done, but PHX is still too far south to effectively serve most of the region. Still, ATL is also too far south to serve as a good European connecting hub, but the bulk of connectivity that DL provides there takes care of that issue. PHX would need to become a far larger hub with ample connections to serve as a good Asian connecting point. LAX is also incapable of becoming an Asia/Pacific connecting hub in the same way UA uses SFO, simply due to the lack of connectivity and heavy competition by carriers with far better service and lower costs. Overall, it would be an interesting merger, nonetheless. How effective it would be, however, is a completely different story.

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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:42 pm

Quoting United777ORD (Reply 4):

To add, doesn't US have A350 on order?
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:56 pm

Quoting wingnutmn (Reply 3):
Dominant up and down the east coast with hubs in JFK/LGA/DCA/CLT/MIA, Midwest is covered with DFW/ORD, west is weak with only PHX and a smaller presence in LAX.

I would not consider LGA as a hub.
What do you mean by a small presence in LAX? AA does not have a small presence in LAX
 
davescj
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:29 pm

The major problem, as pointed out above, is labor relations. US already had poisonous relations between labor/managment. I can't see AA's own situation helping.

That said, I think if the labor relations could be overcome, then they would be an incredibly strong player. They would have a massive reach into Europe, PHL could become a JFK like hub (keeping NYC for O/D and PHL as a continue on point, same as MIA).

WIth the extra aircraft that could come from the merger, a great reach in to Asia would be possible.


Keep the AA livery, Oneworld Alliance, and upgrade of US aircraft.

Dave
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:53 pm

I see it happening, although I see it as less optimal compared to UA/CO and DL/NW. Neither AA or US have a large Asia network, which isn't required but preferable. I think in the NE they'd be a little too cluttered with PHL JFK LGA and DCA. Some say they'd ditch NYC for PHL but with the sheer number of corporate contacts AA has I don't see it happening. And I won't even mention labor. Again, I see it happening, but IMO, UA and DL would definitely be ahead of AA/US
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william
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:59 pm

1.AA livery and name stays, too much brand recognition to throw away.

2. Airbus mainly fleet, Doug is in bed with Airbus and for good reason, Airbus has been a good OEM for US.

3. Headquaters would be DFW

4. Get AA while in bankruptcy, let the judge dicate the contracts, tell US East we are going to arbitration, if the pilots do not accept the ruling let them be in contempt of court.

Let me preface this by stating I hope AA can be a stand alone entity but if they go into BK all bets are off and I wouldn't blame Parker for making a move on AA. It would be a better fit than DL.
 
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:37 pm

Under such a scenario, CLT would probably suffer the most. Yes, it could still continue to be a hub, but on a much smaller scale. The current level of 600+ flights/day would be counter-productive and unsustainable under such a merger. Look for CLT to be scaled back to 250-300 flights/day and its status as an international hub to go away in favor of PHL/DFW/MIA.

PHX would probably suffer some as well, but not at the drastic level that CLT would. The focus would be on getting more local O&D traffic than connecting traffic.

As mentioned earlier, JFK could focus on its valuable O&D base, while PHL could serve as the primary international East Coast hub with less competition and far better connectivity.
.......
 
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:28 pm

A merged USAirways will have these hubs . ORD,PHL,MIA,DFW, and CLT. JFK,LAX,PHX, and STL will go away as hub status . Doug Parker will become CEO and Scott Kirby will be president . The name will remain American . The livery will remain the current AA livery. The rolling hub thingy being done in DFW will go away . MD80's will also go away . I am sure some challenges will arise but they can be taken care of .This is something that WILL be done wether we like it or not if it has robe done . Wall street actually in my opiñion wants this truncation to occur . I also believe that AA and US are in talks with each other about a transaction . It's just a matter of time . This is clearly all my opiñion .
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 10:01 pm

What I feel pretty certain about is if these two pair up, the HQ will be in DFW and Doug Parker will be running the show.

For the grey area, DFW, MIA, CLT, and ORD would be hubs and I think PHX would shrink some. PHL would probably have an international focus, but may not be as much of a domestic connector. International routes at LAX and JFK would be kept.
It is what it is...
 
Byrdluvs747
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 10:12 pm

Its quite amusing how everyone thinks US will just swoop in and buy AA on the cheap. You all seem to forget that AA has some powerful allies to counter any US bid. I could see a bid by TPG, in cooperation with Citi, IAG, GE, and Boeing. Boeing definitely wouldn't want the pro-Airbus management at US taking over AA.

Airbus would be caught in the middle. Do they support their present customer US, and risk some alienation by AA if US is is outbid? Alternatively they could play it safe by supporting AA and offer US some consolation deal.

Then there's govt issue. Since AA has a big presence in all the big states in the US (CA,TX,FL,NY,IL) you can bet management and labor will be pressing their congressional reps to oppose this merger. Both will probably state how this merger reduces choice for consumers, but AA labor won't want to have to compete with two(HP,US) additional labor groups, and management just wants to retain control.

Quoting United777ORD (Reply 4):
Livery: Current US Airways

Give me a break!!! That's utter nonsense.

The US brand is worth far less than AA's and is less known worldwide, especially in Latin America. Almost everything regarding US' branding will disappear in such a merger. It would cost far less to change from US' branding than AA's.

Quoting davescj (Reply 12):
PHL could become a JFK like hub (keeping NYC for O/D and PHL as a continue on point,

Any drawdown of JFK would be stupid on AA's part as partners rely n AA's presence in JFK for ongoing transfers. If anything PHL will be redeuced to a domestic hub, but retain any O/D that can be supported.

Quoting davescj (Reply 12):
Keep the AA livery, Oneworld Alliance

There's no other choice. Under no circumstance wold the DOJ allow AA/US to become a member of Star or ST.
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Mainliner
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 10:17 pm

So where would they stand with regional feed? Merge the US wholly-owned carriers into Eagle? What about contract carriers? AA's scope clause prohibits CR9's and the 170's/175's from being operated anyone other than mainline, right? Plus a HUGE glut of 50 seat (and smaller) RJ's...
Every flight counts.
 
skyhawk62507
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 10:20 pm

Quoting cjpmaestro (Thread starter):
What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like? 

Hell?
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 10:33 pm

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 18):
Then there's govt issue. Since AA has a big presence in all the big states in the US (CA,TX,FL,NY,IL) you can bet management and labor will be pressing their congressional reps to oppose this merger. Both will probably state how this merger reduces choice for consumers, but AA labor won't want to have to compete with two(HP,US) additional labor groups, and management just wants to retain control.

Im sure labor would. I dont think we can know how management will react just yet. We cant truly know until US makes a move. I feel quite certain US will make a move of some sort. How AA will recieve it is anyones guess.

Frankly, if (and this is a huge if) they can get the labor situation sorted out, as long as the HQ remains in DFW and DFW sees no drastic cuts, I dont care if AA and US do merge. Doug Parker and US team managed to turn US from the laughing stock of the airline industy into a marginally profitable organization. As a loyal AA flyer, I would be willing to give him a chance if things go that way.
It is what it is...
 
caleeiii
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:42 pm

Quoting United777ORD (Reply 4):

Airline Name: American Airlines
Livery: Current US Airways

It doesn't work for me. Just my preference.


 
rising
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:54 pm

Quoting United777ORD (Reply 4):
Airline Name: American Airlines

Might as well call it White Star Line.

Quoting caleeiii (Reply 23):

Jeff, is that you?!
If it doesn't make sense, it's because it's not true.
 
UNITED777ORD
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:54 pm

Quoting caleeiii (Reply 23):

Quoting United777ORD (Reply 4):

Airline Name: American Airlines
Livery: Current US Airways

It doesn't work for me. Just my preference.

I totally agree it looks a hot mess. I propose that a new livery is created for the new AA/US merger.
 
DL747400
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:19 am

What Would A Merged AA and US Look Like?

IMO, the result of such a combination would be a total and complete MESS of an airline with labor problems beyond imagination. The resulting union battles and challenges would suck up hundreds of millions of $$$ in legal fees and would take years or even decades to resolve.

The combined airline would be one that delivers even crappier service that either one already does today and one that passengers would avoid like the plague. Such a combination would destroy any revenue premiums that either carrier is able to generate separately today.

Massive losses would ensue, leading to eventual asset sales. I have a picture in my head of a perfect emoticon for this, but alas, it is not featured on this site.
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boeingpride800
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:42 am

I picture it looking like a devastating hurricane
 
XT6Wagon
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:52 am

What it would look like? Like liquidation waiting to happen. I don't think they could go a week straight without some sort of labor issue wrecking the bottom line.
 
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:53 am

Quoting DL747400 (Reply 26):
The combined airline would be one that delivers even crappier service that either one already does today and one that passengers would avoid like the plague. Such a combination would destroy any revenue premiums that either carrier is able to generate separately today.

Harsh. How often do you fly either? I have never had anything but good experiences on either airline. Flights on time. Service as advertised with mostly smiles, and planes no dirtier than Delta.
 
furlough
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:08 am

I agree labor issues would be difficult, but I don't think it would be insurmountable. As a US employee I can say for a fact that the pilots would not be as opposed to a merger as one would think. When we almost tied the not a couple years ago with UA... there was anxiety about what may happen but nothing that seemed like outward hostility about the idea. Not sure how things on the AA side would be, but either way if you throw them a bone (which would likely happy), I don't see how it would be really hard.

US will not touch AA until they have filed for Ch. 11 and he pension plans have been terminated or frozen. Thats a fact. Doug Parker has even said it in more diplomatic terms in crew news sessions with our pilots.

The fleet would stay mixed with Airbus and Boeing, it would be so large it would matter. Prime examples being DL and UA.

I think the hubs would remain largely intact as they are today on both sides and that AA focus cities probably would be drawn down some.

For all of you US and AA haters out there, I don't think you can underestimate the potential that both airlines have. Its easy to find flaws because both have had rough histories. As much as Parker has ticked me off at his tenure here I will say this much about him... he can make the numbers work. In the end of the day, Wall street wants the most value. Consolidation and market power are what creates value.
 
flyguy89
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:33 am

I'm not sure why so many are just dead-set on this opinion that AA and US HAVE to merger, that it's going to happen and it's only a matter of time. Could it happen? Sure, anything is possible in this industry. But for every reason people put out there that they should merge, there are two reasons why they should not.

First and foremost, yes AA is weak right now...but they are still a MASSIVE airline and well-sized to compete with the DL and UA mega-carriers. People forget that before all the mergers, AA was the world's largest airline, so while they're smaller now than DL and UA, they're only marginally so.

I also can't for the life of me understand why Parker is salivating to sell or merge US, including that botched hostile take-over of DL...to me it just shows he has little confidence in the company as is right now which I don't get because US is profitable. This doesn't however mean US is particularly in the position to buy AA as some suggest. AA is weak financially but they have a helluva lot of valuable assets (LGA and JFK slots, LHR slots, MIA and South America, enviable market shares in LA and Chicago, the transcon market) which other carriers would also be interested in if the worst ever happened.

Quoting jmc1975 (Reply 15):
Look for CLT to be scaled back to 250-300 flights/day and its status as an international hub to go away in favor of PHL/DFW/MIA.

To say the least CLT will be de-emphasized internationally if MIA is brought into the fold.

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 9):
JFK hubs would be diminished and reduced to focus city status. Firstly, PHL can serve virtually the same role as AA's JFK hub does now with considerably less competition and much greater connectivity.

I don't think so. With a brand-new terminal at JFK and PHL's nasty congestion...JFK will definitely stay on.
 
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RWA380
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:34 am

Quoting rising (Reply 24):
Quoting rising (Reply 24):
Might as well call it White Star Line.

This reply made me laugh so hard, I can't agree more. Leonardo DiCaprio can play Doug Parker in the movie.
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boberito6589
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:39 am

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 31):
I don't think so. With a brand-new terminal at JFK and PHL's nasty congestion...JFK will definitely stay on.

JFK lacks congestion?
 
RamblinMan
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:44 am

I'm all for it. I'd only have one airline to flat-out avoid instead of two.
 
CO777DAL
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:37 am

Quoting cjpmaestro (Thread starter):
but what would a merged AA and US look like?

I was thinking something like this. Train Wreck.



Can't imagine who would want to sort out the labor relations at that combined airline.
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Byrdluvs747
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:12 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 22):
As a loyal AA flyer, I would be willing to give him a chance if things go that way.

Seeing what "Plastic Cup" Parker did the the product of US, I'm hoping AA does everything in their power to avoid a US takeover. The only way AA and US should merge is on AA's terms.
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Flighty
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:29 am

Quoting jmc1975 (Reply 15):
CLT would probably suffer the most. Yes, it could still continue to be a hub, but on a much smaller scale. The current level of 600 flights/day would be counter-productive and unsustainable under such a merger

Unsustainable in what sense... I think we're forgetting AA is the sick patient here, not US. US at CLT is doing fine.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 22):
as long as the HQ remains in DFW and DFW sees no drastic cuts, I dont care if AA and US do merge. Doug Parker and US team managed to turn US from the laughing stock of the airline industy into a marginally profitable organization. As a loyal AA flyer, I would be willing to give him a chance if things go that way.

Exactly, Parker has industry credibility and AA mgmt has not earned that. So, creditors and so forth would favor Parker and his team, if they want their investments to work out.

Quoting Mainliner (Reply 19):
AA's scope clause prohibits CR9's and the 170's/175's from being operated anyone other than mainline, right? Plus a HUGE glut of 50 seat (and smaller) RJ's...

That is a carrier headed for bankruptcy. The contracts have no meaning really, in that setting. They could NewCo the airline ("New AA") and it could rent old AA's organs in any way they want.

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 36):
Seeing what "Plastic Cup" Parker did the the product of US, I'm hoping AA does everything in their power to avoid a US takeover. The only way AA and US should merge is on AA's terms.

Wholly agree with your point, as far as plastic cups are concerned. For other topics, I'd would probably go with Parker.
 
boberito6589
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:34 am

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 36):

Seeing what "Plastic Cup" Parker did the the product of US, I'm hoping AA does everything in their power to avoid a US takeover. The only way AA and US should merge is on AA's terms.

US has put glass back in First:

http://www.usairways.com/en-US/trave...ir/envoyfirst/firstclass.html#tab2
 
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zippyjet
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:42 am

With and AAUS merger, at least at my home town airport and workplace, the state of Maryland would have to implode ghetto Concourse D and revuild it for what would be the second largest carrier. Why? because SWA Life is a comin back to Concourse C (where AA flies out of).

At MIA, US now part of the DArth Vader of aviation would exit the re-done Concourse H. Just leaving us more room to finally expand and finally bring MIA SWA Life!
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ATL
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:43 am

AA's plans to get the 787 would probably be scrapped then....   JFK and LAX are way too important markets to be dropped, and PHL replacing JFK just wouldn't make any sense: how many people would rather fly through JFK versus PHL.....? Although I must say I did like the new A-West terminal when I flew PHL-LHR with BA. Point is though, dropping the brand new, beautiful terminal 8 at JFK would be madness.
 
Max Q
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:44 am

Just because US is all that's left is no reason to merge with it.


There are no advantages in doing so for AA.


They should get their own house in order and grow and adjust their network internally.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:49 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 41):
Just because US is all that's left is no reason to merge with it

Except US isn't all that's left.

***cough***JetBlue***cough***

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Maverick623
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:56 am

Quoting United777ORD (Reply 4):
Hubs
Quoting United777ORD (Reply 4):
PHX

  

If you think PIT and (especially) LAS being drawn down were a shock, you ain't seen nuthin' yet, especially with WN picking up international routes now that they have FL.

Quoting rising (Reply 24):

Might as well call it White Star Line.

  

Best. Reply. Ever.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
USAirALB
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:59 am

Quoting jmc1975 (Reply 15):
Under such a scenario, CLT would probably suffer the most. Yes, it could still continue to be a hub, but on a much smaller scale. The current level of 600+ flights/day would be counter-productive and unsustainable under such a merger. Look for CLT to be scaled back to 250-300 flights/day and its status as an international hub to go away in favor of PHL/DFW/MIA.
Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 31):
Quoting jmc1975 (Reply 15):
Look for CLT to be scaled back to 250-300 flights/day and its status as an international hub to go away in favor of PHL/DFW/MIA.

To say the least CLT will be de-emphasized internationally if MIA is brought into the fold.

I'm confused to see why everyone thinks CLT will be de-emphasized in an AA/US merger. CLT is a gold mine for US. Out of all of the hubs in an AA/US merger, CLT is the second largest, behind DFW. I have said this before, and I will say it again, MIA is a weak Domestic-Domestic connecting hub. Where it succeeds is US-Latin America/Caribbean/South America (and it would make a fine gateway to Africa).

For example, it doesn't make sense to fly BDL-MIA-STL, or BDL-MIA-DEN. Do people do it? Maybe. But BDL-CLT-STL makes much more sense, as it is in a better position demographically to connect the country. CLT is an also better posistion to connect the country to Europe and Canada than MIA.

Sure, AA serves a ton of destinations in South America/Caribbean from MIA-destinations that CLT could never support. And in the future, I believe we will see MIA-Africa flights resume. CLT can only serve the main tourist destinations in the Caribbean, and a few primary South American destinations. CLT could never support African flights.

However, we must remember that:

CLT supports more destinations in the US on US than AA from MIA. CLT is able to support more secondary destinations than MIA. I highly doubt you'll ever see PWM or SMF flown from MIA nonstop on AA.

CLT serves more European destinations on US than AA from MIA. (US flies CLT-LGW/FRA/CDG/FCO/MAD/DUB, AA only flies MIA-LHR/CDG/MAD. I think AA is announcing MIA-BCN soon though?)

CLT serves more destinations in Canada on US than AA from MIA. (AA flies MIA-YYZ/YUL, US flies CLT-YYZ/YUL/YOW)

CLT will always be a stronger domestic hub than MIA. MIA will always be a stronger international hub than CLT. Sure, CLT does have a lot of flights to international destinations, but nowhere near as much as MIA. Sure, MIA does have a lot of domestic flights to domestic destinations, but nowhere near as much as CLT.

Plus, Doug will be in charge of the new AA, and Dougie loves CLT. He has said before that CLT would remain a hub in a merged US. (I know, they said that about CVG/MEM too.)

And one more thing. If US know's they are going to merge with AA, why are they adding more flights only to downsize the hub?
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flyguy89
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:55 am

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 44):
I'm confused to see why everyone thinks CLT will be de-emphasized in an AA/US merger.

Settle down. I had a feeling the CLT fanboys would come out of the woodwork soon. This isn't about some sort of arbitrary contest between MIA and CLT, so the comparisons are moot. What I was stating and what I believe will necessarily happen is CLT will be "de-emphasized" key word being de-emphasized and not de-hubbed. You said it yourself, CLT makes a fine domestic hub and in a hypothetical merger with AA it would likely remain as such.

However, the only reason CLT serves as many Caribbean/South American and European destinations as it does is because it is US's central hub in their network as it exists right now. But if MIA is brought into the fold, it will make more sense to route a Hartford-St. Maarten passenger BDL-MIA-SXM than BDL-CLT-SXM as CLT is no longer the only Caribbean/South American and TATL gateway in the network. In an AA merger, CLT would probably lose most of it's international services except for the major ones to LGW, CDG and such and become an almost exclusively domestic hub.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 44):
MIA will always be a stronger international hub than CLT.

You said it yourself here. If both MIA and CLT become hubs for the same carrier, flowing US-Caribbean/South American pax over CLT not only ceases to be the only option, but the less profitable one as MIA is the stronger international hub, thereby de-emphasizing CLT's importance in international traffic flows in the new combined carrier versus US as a standalone right now.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 44):
Plus, Doug will be in charge of the new AA,

A zero-sum statement as AA and US are not merging and, outside the speculation here on a.net, there's no indication they're even in talks.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 44):
Dougie loves CLT. He has said before that CLT would remain a hub in a merged US.

Oh come now...Parker's feelings toward CLT are only as strong as US's last financial report. He was willing to throw CLT under the bus when he attempted the hostile take-over of DL.
 
Beardown91737
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:10 am

Quoting caleeiii (Reply 23):

Current livery... means keeping the US flag image on the tail and the same US font for the name.

I would see the combo as
Name: US Airways
Livery: Current US Airways
HQ: Tempe, with some operations in DFW
Hubs: PHL, PHX, DFW, MIA, ORD,

Quoting cjpmaestro (Thread starter):
big presence in all the big states in the US (CA

They may transfer passengers from domestic to international at LAX, and they may have a lot of destination traffic to LAX. I don't think perceive AA as being a preference for Californians who aren't traveling to Texas.
135 hrs PIC (mostly PA-28) - not current. Landings at MDW, PIA, JAN.
 
jmc1975
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:24 am

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 44):
I'm confused to see why everyone thinks CLT will be de-emphasized in an AA/US merger. CLT is a gold mine for US.

CLT is 85% connecting traffic for US vs. roughly 65% for AA @ DFW, which puts US at a revenue AND cost disadvantage. A merger of this sort would create revenue and cost synergies that would do away with this disadvantage.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 44):
Out of all of the hubs in an AA/US merger, CLT is the second largest, behind DFW.

Moot point. The DFW Metroplex has over 3 times the purchasing power as does CLT, however, it has less than 20% more daily flights. As I said earlier, CLT is not sustainable at 600 flights/day under such a merger.....but 250-300 would likely be optimal.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 44):
For example, it doesn't make sense to fly BDL-MIA-STL, or BDL-MIA-DEN. Do people do it? Maybe. But BDL-CLT-STL makes much more sense, as it is in a better position demographically to connect the country.

I'm sure people would continue flying BDL-ORD-STL or BDL-DFW-DEN and not think much about it. The demographics of CLT have nothing to do with connecting traffic...demographics are important when talking local O&D though.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 44):
CLT is an also better posistion to connect the country to Europe and Canada than MIA.

Connect from where?

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 44):

CLT supports more destinations in the US on US than AA from MIA. CLT is able to support more secondary destinations than MIA. I highly doubt you'll ever see PWM or SMF flown from MIA nonstop on AA.

CLT serves more European destinations on US than AA from MIA. (US flies CLT-LGW/FRA/CDG/FCO/MAD/DUB, AA only flies MIA-LHR/CDG/MAD. I think AA is announcing MIA-BCN soon though?)

CLT serves more destinations in Canada on US than AA from MIA. (AA flies MIA-YYZ/YUL, US flies CLT-YYZ/YUL/YOW)

CLT will always be a stronger domestic hub than MIA. MIA will always be a stronger international hub than CLT. Sure, CLT does have a lot of flights to international destinations, but nowhere near as much as MIA. Sure, MIA does have a lot of domestic flights to domestic destinations, but nowhere near as much as CLT.

CLT would not only be competing with MIA, but also DFW & ORD....that's why it is the most likely candidate to be de-emphasized

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 45):
This isn't about some sort of arbitrary contest between MIA and CLT, so the comparisons are moot.

  
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caliboy78
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:31 am

All I got to say if this merger were to happen I support the idea that AA/US will keep JFK, DFW, MIA, CLT, ORD & LAX as the main hubs followed by PHL, LGA, BOS, DCA & PHX as focus cities. PHL will keep their international flights to the main O&D cities like LHR, MAD, CGD etc. etc. but hey who am I to know this things. I just hope that if it happens it's smooth and good for all the employees "all labor / issues thats we all know will come along aside" with no layoffs cause after all we all need to put bread on our tables.
TAAke pride on what you do and do it well.
 
USAirALB
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:11 pm

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 45):

True, but like I said before, MIA only serves primary domestic destinations at this point. What if someone wants to fly PWM-SXM? They'll have to double connect, and fly PWM-CLT-MIA-SXM. That doesn't make sense. In a merger, I believe CLT would keep the majority, if not all of its European flights along with most of its Caribbean flights. The purpose of the Caribbean flights from CLT is to connect tourists to the islands. That's why you don't see CLT-SDQ/PAP. The demand just isn't there.
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enilria
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RE: What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like?

Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:28 pm

Quoting cjpmaestro (Thread starter):
What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like? 

Imagine a castle on the top of a hill with three separate armies racing toward it from three different directions screaming at the top of their lungs and launching flaming arrows...and that's just the pilots. The IAM and FAs are tunneling from underneath to lay explosives.

That's what it would look like.