keuleatr72
Topic Author
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:30 am

Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:57 am

According to a report from "Spiegel online" a former German Air Force Airbus ended up in Iran with W5.
The Airbus A310, former 10+22 "Theodor Heuss", was sold to a group of investors from the Ukraine for 3.125 million euros. The group of investors then sold the Bus to Iran´s W5.

Link (only in german - sorry)
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,798907,00.html

I will post a link in english as soon as I can find one.

Wasn´t it the chairman of W5 who recently told the press, that his team was pretty "creative" when it comes to aircraft aquisitions?
In Putins´ Russia Waldo finds you...
 
irshava
Posts: 254
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:11 am

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:06 am

Will the cabin be refitted for PAX ops or no?
“If you were born without wings, do nothing to prevent them from growing.”
 
something
Posts: 1239
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 5:29 pm

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:26 am

Quoting keuleatr72 (Thread starter):
Wasn´t it the chairman of W5 who recently told the press, that his team was pretty "creative" when it comes to aircraft aquisitions?

Not sure how creative this really is. It's been going on forever that LH has sold old aircraft - predominantly A300s - to a leasing company in Kazhakstan (sp?) or the Ukraine who then passed the aircraft off to Iran Air or Mahan Air.
..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
 
Birdwatching
Posts: 3574
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 10:48 am

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:39 am

Quoting irshava (Reply 1):
Will the cabin be refitted for PAX ops or no?

They registered it EP-VIP. I think this says it all.

Soren   
All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
 
PanHAM
Posts: 8533
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:08 am

All German government surplus is sold through a company called "Vebeg" which is wholly owned by the federal republic.The highest bidder wins the bidding. Simple as that.

If export licenses are needed, the buyer has to obtain an export license from the "Bundesamt fuer Gewerbliche Wirtschaft" in Eschbirn near frankfurt. Did not seem to be required here. If there are no further restrictions, the buyer can do what he wants. Landing on a US black list is no threat to a consortium which is formed just for the single purposes and dissolved afterwards.
powered by Eierlikör
 
qantas747flyer
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri May 06, 2011 10:29 am

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:44 am

I'm not sure the Americans will be happy about this...
 
PanHAM
Posts: 8533
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:00 am

Thje biddings are open to anyone who has the cash and not subject to US happiness. Go to www.vebeg.de and you can see that items, such as military equipment, is subject to export license. If there was an export license needed for the sale to Ukraine, it was obviously issued. The aircraft was delivered "white" without any markings.
powered by Eierlikör
 
a300
Posts: 363
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 9:24 am

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:27 am

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 3):
Quoting irshava (Reply 1):
Will the cabin be refitted for PAX ops or no?

They registered it EP-VIP. I think this says it all.

I totally agree. The registration is unique and not part of Mahan's usual registration sequences. Interestingly, a former Luftwaffe Tu-154M (11+01) found its way to the Iran Air Tours fleet as EP‑MBL and was operated in standard (non-VIP) passenger configuration. I found the fact that both EP-MBL and EP-MBL were with Interflug before going to Luftwaffe fascinating. Very interesting journey for these ships indeed.

It is a virtual certainty that Mahan will continue to grow the fleet with as many A300-600 and A310-300 aircraft that they can get their hands on. The newest A300-600 they have added is a PW-powered specimen, unlike all their other A300/A310s. Perhaps they will finally retire the few jurassic first generation A300s they have left.
Boland Aseman Jayegah Man Ast.
 
PanHAM
Posts: 8533
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:31 am

Quoting a300 (Reply 7):
I found the fact that both EP-MBL and EP-MBL were with Interflug before going to Luftwaffe fascinating. Very interesting journey for these ships indeed.

Interflug never operated the Tu-154 commercially. These 2 were VIP aircraft for the East German regime. Interflug actually was in charge of operating anything with wings, from agriculture flying to airline ops and airports. They wre part of the regime.
powered by Eierlikör
 
AustrianZRH
Posts: 844
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 5:55 pm

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:14 am

Quoting qantas747flyer (Reply 5):
I'm not sure the Americans will be happy about this...

I'm not sure the Germans will care too much about this...   
WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
 
EDICHC
Posts: 1545
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:38 pm

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:20 am

Quoting qantas747flyer (Reply 5):
not sure the Americans will be happy about this...

Why? Once an asset is sold the German government agency responsible for the sale no longer has any control over what the new owner does with said asset.
A300/319/320/346 ATR72 B722/732/3/4/5/6/8/742/4/752/762/3/772/3 BAC111 BAe146 C172 DHC1/6/8 HS121 MD80 PA28
 
racko
Posts: 4548
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 12:06 am

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:24 am

The history of the aircraft owned by Mahan are really interesting.

Original Customers:

A300:
Lufthansa 10
Thai 4
TOA Domestic 3
Emirates 2
Eastern 1
Air France 1

A310:
Lufthansa 3
Hapag Lloyd 2
CSA 2
Turkish 2

747:
United 3
UTA 2

Avro:
China Northwest 2

TriStar:
Delta 1
 
columba
Posts: 5045
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:28 am

It will only be embarassing if this aircraft will become the new Iranian Air Force 1
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
PanHAM
Posts: 8533
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:34 am

Quoting columba (Reply 12):
t will only be embarassing if this aircraft will become the new Iranian Air Force 1

mmmhhhh, with a woman as pre-owner?   Who'd be embarrased here?  
powered by Eierlikör
 
Burkhard
Posts: 1916
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:34 pm

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:08 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 13):
mmmhhhh, with a woman as pre-owner? Who'd be embarrased here?

She not I'm sure, and the American can be happy they know the plane so well...
 
shankly
Posts: 1197
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 10:42 pm

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:54 pm

I wonder if the Iranians fancy a few VC-10's?
L1011 - P F M
 
airbazar
Posts: 6874
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:10 pm

Quoting qantas747flyer (Reply 5):
I'm not sure the Americans will be happy about this...

American companies have been doing the exact same thing for years. You can find American products for sale in Iran, Cuba, and earlier in embargoed Iraq. How do you think they get there?
http://www.cnbc.com/id/40536012/Amer...in_Iran_Despite_Economic_Sanctions
http://www.miamiherald.com/2009/08/2...merican-made-products-readily.html
Just about every major corporation in the World does business with Iran.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...10/03/06/world/iran-sanctions.html
 
LH526
Crew
Posts: 1960
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2000 2:23 am

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:27 pm

Quoting keuleatr72 (Thread starter):
Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran  

Wrong! The A310 has been sold to a company, the highest bidder of the auction! THAT company sold it to Iran and is to blame, not germany!
Trittst im Morgenrot daher, seh ich dich im Strahlenmeer ...
 
Acheron
Posts: 1832
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:14 am

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:27 pm

Quoting qantas747flyer (Reply 5):

I'm not sure the Americans will be happy about this...

I don't think many people give a damn about what americans think of the sale of a used civilian aircraft, to be honest.
 
aero145
Posts: 2867
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:59 am

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:39 pm

Quoting lh526 (Reply 17):
is to blame

Could you care to elaborate on that one?
 
solarflyer22
Posts: 1453
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:07 pm

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:07 pm

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 3):
They registered it EP-VIP. I think this says it all.
Soren

That is amusing.

I don't think its actually a problem for them to purchase an aircraft more than 7 years old which this AC clrearly is. The problem is the transfer of money. In this case it went through a Eastern European country but the bank that brokered the deal is probably not permitted to bank in the US. Flying realiable planes over european skies for civilians is kind of in everyone's best interest anyway.
 
pliersinsight
Posts: 212
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 6:06 pm

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:33 pm

Quoting Acheron (Reply 18):
Quoting qantas747flyer (Reply 5):
I'm not sure the Americans will be happy about this...
I don't think many people give a damn about what americans think of the sale of a used civilian aircraft, to be honest.

As an American, my response would be "who cares". There are much more important things to deal with over here than Iran's leader. From a political standpoint, I see it as a mistake on their part. Getting yourself a fancy new jet in the wake of what has been going on with the Arab spring might not be such a great idea.

I'm glad the Germans could find a buyer and maybe even got overpaid. Hopefully they knew the fix was in and put a phantom bidder in to get every last euro out of the syndicate.
 
LH526
Crew
Posts: 1960
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2000 2:23 am

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:13 pm

Quoting aero145 (Reply 19):
Could you care to elaborate on that one?

Germany sold the plane to an unnamed investment company from eastern europe. This company submitted the highest bid. Rumor has it that this company is part of the same middleman-company that sold 3 ex UA B744 to Iran.
Trittst im Morgenrot daher, seh ich dich im Strahlenmeer ...
 
sunilgupta
Posts: 768
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2000 12:15 pm

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:53 pm

Quoting lh526 (Reply 17):
Quoting keuleatr72 (Thread starter):
Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Wrong! The A310 has been sold to a company, the highest bidder of the auction! THAT company sold it to Iran and is to blame, not germany!

Why is he wrong? He said "Former German Air Force"... not "Germany sold it to Iran"...

Just for the record: if I, as an American company, knowingly sell something that is embargoed or sanctioned to a "3rd party" knowing full well it will end up in the wrong hands, I will spend time in jail - it is US Law and it is clear. I can't comment on how that law applies to this case because the airplane (which I just saw two days ago in KBP!) wasn't sold by an American company; however, I am making this comment in response to some of the comments above.

Sunil
 
qantas747flyer
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri May 06, 2011 10:29 am

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:00 pm

Quoting lh526 (Reply 22):
Rumor has it that this company is part of the same middleman-company that sold 3 ex UA B744 to Iran.

That would be these folks:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ns-from-trading-with-Iranians.html

http://www.politico.com/blogs/laurar...ty_to_selling_US_747s_to_Iran.html
 
LH526
Crew
Posts: 1960
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2000 2:23 am

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:04 pm

Quoting sunilgupta (Reply 23):
Why is he wrong? He said "Former German Air Force"... not "Germany sold it to Iran"...

He is wrong because he said that the Airbus, formerly belonging to the German Air Force has been sold to Iran, that's wrong because the former German Air Force A310 has been sold to an Investment company in eastern europe. The former investmens company's Airbus then has been sold to Iran ... that's the way it went  
Quoting sunilgupta (Reply 23):
Just for the record: if I, as an American company, knowingly sell something that is embargoed or sanctioned to a "3rd party" knowing full well it will end up in the wrong hands, I will spend time in jail - it is US Law and it is clear. I can't comment on how that law applies to this case because the airplane (which I just saw two days ago in KBP!) wasn't sold by an American company; however, I am making this comment in response to some of the comments above.

Then how did the former UA 744 made it all the way down to Iran?

[Edited 2011-11-21 09:05:44]
Trittst im Morgenrot daher, seh ich dich im Strahlenmeer ...
 
User avatar
larshjort
Posts: 1427
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:54 pm

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:12 pm

Quoting lh526 (Reply 25):
He is wrong because he said that the Airbus, formerly belonging to the German Air Force has been sold to Iran, that's wrong because the former German Air Force A310 has been sold to an Investment company in eastern europe. The former investmens company's Airbus then has been sold to Iran ... that's the way it went

The Airbus is still a former Luftwaffe aircraft, and it will always be a former Luftwaffe aircraft   Until it's broken up.

/Lars
139, 306, 319, 320, 321, 332, 34A, AN2, AT4, AT5, AT7, 733, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 146, AR1, BH2, CN1, CR2, DH1, DH3, DH4,
 
777STL
Posts: 2770
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:22 am

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:47 pm

Quoting lh526 (Reply 17):
Wrong! The A310 has been sold to a company, the highest bidder of the auction! THAT company sold it to Iran and is to blame, not germany!

You could try being a little less.....abrupt. I also don't see how what he said was wrong. It was an ex German AF 310 and it was sold to Iran - I fail to see how what he said was wrong given what transpired.

Quoting lh526 (Reply 25):
He is wrong because he said that the Airbus, formerly belonging to the German Air Force has been sold to Iran, that's wrong because the former German Air Force A310 has been sold to an Investment company in eastern europe. The former investmens company's Airbus then has been sold to Iran ... that's the way it went

That's exactly what happened and jives with exactly what he said, it was an ex German Air Force bird AND it was eventually sold to Iran. You'll notice he never said that the German government sold it directly to Iran, which seems to be what you're attempting(and failing) to contradict him on. Additionally, if you read the body of he wrote, he said exactly what you did, so again, I'm wondering why you're trying so hard to contradict him here.

Quoting keuleatr72 (Thread starter):
According to a report from "Spiegel online" a former German Air Force Airbus ended up in Iran with W5.
The Airbus A310, former 10+22 "Theodor Heuss", was sold to a group of investors from the Ukraine for 3.125 million euros. The group of investors then sold the Bus to Iran´s W5.

This would be a much nicer website if the adolescents here didn't jump down each others' throats for stupid, nonsensical stuff. If you're going to go through the trouble of blowing someone up because they supposedly said something incorrect, you could at least try to be correct yourself when you "correct" them.

[Edited 2011-11-21 09:50:43]
PHX based
 
User avatar
kanban
Posts: 3644
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:00 am

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:53 pm

Quoting lh526 (Reply 25):
He is wrong because he said that the Airbus, formerly belonging to the German Air Force has been sold to Iran, that's wrong because the former German Air Force A310 has been sold to an Investment company in eastern europe.

the sale to the investment company did not change the a/c lineage... if Iran now sells it to Bhutan, it's still a former German Air Force plane.
 
PanHAM
Posts: 8533
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:02 pm

we might as well settle on the fact that it really is a former Interflug A310 which was "inherited" by the Federal Republic of Germany and afterwards used as VIP transport for Germany before it was sold through the state owned surplus auctioneer to an Ukrainian consortium which then sold it to mahan Air of Iran .

I mentioned before that the surplus vendor, VEBEG strictly sells to the highest bidder. If export licenses are needed, the successful bidder has to obtain such licenses. That automatically prevents military items to go to areas for which export licenses are not issued. Obviously, there was not restriction for the A310. VEBEG is not responsible for what happens after the aircraft has left the country.
powered by Eierlikör
 
qantas747flyer
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri May 06, 2011 10:29 am

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:31 pm

Out of curiosity is this fitted with US made engines?
 
WestJet747
Posts: 1950
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:43 pm

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:34 pm

Quoting lh526 (Reply 17):
Wrong! The A310 has been sold to a company, the highest bidder of the auction! THAT company sold it to Iran and is to blame, not germany!
Quoting lh526 (Reply 22):
Germany sold the plane to an unnamed investment company from eastern europe. This company submitted the highest bid. Rumor has it that this company is part of the same middleman-company that sold 3 ex UA B744 to Iran.

Due diligence is a significant step in the procurement-sales process. LH and the German Airforce have a good idea where the aircraft are headed as the next sale is already lined up. I wouldn't go as far as vilifying them because, frankly, this is just a VIP configured A310 , I don't think it will be dropping bombs on anybody anytime soon...

Quoting lh526 (Reply 25):
Quoting sunilgupta (Reply 23):
Just for the record: if I, as an American company, knowingly sell something that is embargoed or sanctioned to a "3rd party" knowing full well it will end up in the wrong hands, I will spend time in jail - it is US Law and it is clear. I can't comment on how that law applies to this case because the airplane (which I just saw two days ago in KBP!) wasn't sold by an American company; however, I am making this comment in response to some of the comments above.

Then how did the former UA 744 made it all the way down to Iran?

1) Willful ignorance
2) The dollar speaks very loudly
Flying refined.
 
keuleatr72
Topic Author
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:30 am

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:01 pm

Here is a link in english. From "Spiegel online":
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,798973,00.html

For the record:
The Airbus A310 is the former DDR-ABB which was originally built for the former East German Airline "Interflug". After the reunification the Airbus was re-registered as D-AOAB. In April 1991 "Interflug" went the way of the Dodo and the plane became part of the Air Force. 10+22 served as a spare for 10+21 (German Air Force 1) until this summer, when 10+22 was officially retired.

As an aviation nut I wish Mahan Air best of luck with their new plane.

@lh526

I didn´t play the blame game.

Edited for spelling

[Edited 2011-11-21 11:03:45]
In Putins´ Russia Waldo finds you...
 
777way
Posts: 6470
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:38 am

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:04 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 29):
we might as well settle on the fact that it really is a former Interflug A310

Finally.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13762
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:13 pm

Quoting lh526 (Reply 17):
Wrong! The A310 has been sold to a company, the highest bidder of the auction! THAT company sold it to Iran and is to blame, not germany!

Convient but not necessarily true. 13 LH birds are already with Mahan. Terms of sale could be such that the aircraft may not be resold to an embargoed nation. These kind of clauses are in contracts all the time.

Your excuse is basically saying that money laundering isn't a crime because there is a middle-man. In reality, it just adds one more party to the criminal act. Not saying this was a crime, just trying to point out your false logic.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
aero145
Posts: 2867
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:59 am

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:23 pm

Quoting lh526 (Reply 22):
Germany sold the plane to an unnamed investment company from eastern europe. This company submitted the highest bid. Rumor has it that this company is part of the same middleman-company that sold 3 ex UA B744 to Iran.

Meine Güte, even IF “Germany” would’ve sold their Luftwaffe’bus to Iran, it wouldn’t have been Germany giving the Iranian Air Force an aircraft, but Germany selling some company in an “enemy” state an aircraft – anyway, it ist not a problem, as you explained me above.
 
User avatar
falstaff
Posts: 5575
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:17 am

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:41 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 29):
we might as well settle on the fact that it really is a former Interflug A310



I wonder if it was the aircraft that carried my 1st day cover. I think IF only had 3 A310s so the chances are good.

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb309/NWA747/InterflugFDC2.jpg
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
rjm777ual
Posts: 237
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:32 pm

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:22 am

I'm gonna miss this bird at KIAD (Dulles)!!
Greetings from Dulles!
 
something
Posts: 1239
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 5:29 pm

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:24 pm

I just read in a German paper that the CEO of ''VEBEG'' Uwe Schade claims he ''didn't know'' who bought the airplane. The contract was signed by a company based in Gibraltar and the money was transfered from a German bank account and showed no anomalities. However, Schade says, there's been speculation that the aircraft would end up in Iran.

On a side note, the airliner has been stripped of all ''military equipment''. The article makes it sound as though the German gov't is not very happy about this.
..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 18987
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:41 pm

Quoting qantas747flyer (Reply 30):
Out of curiosity is this fitted with US made engines?

GE and P&W engines were the only engines available on the A300/310.
 
irshava
Posts: 254
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:11 am

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:06 am

Lol... only Ukrainians can do this... :P
“If you were born without wings, do nothing to prevent them from growing.”
 
qantas747flyer
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri May 06, 2011 10:29 am

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:26 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 39):

GE and P&W engines were the only engines available on the A300/310.

Wouldn't that pose export problems to Iran? - I believe current regulations specify that the current limit is 10% US parts being allowed on aircraft intended for use in Iran. I believe this is why Airbus has never been able to sell Iran Air new airplanes - because all their models contain over 10% US made parts.
 
PanHAM
Posts: 8533
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:32 pm

As far as Germany is concerned, the aircraft was exported to the Ukraine. Neither the Ukraine nor Russia or other CIS countries observe US and UN sanctions against Iran.

The German vendor, a state owned company, is legally obliged to sell to the highest bidder, as long as they come up with the money. Which they obviously did.

Some now speculate that Iran will not be too happy with the aircraft as it seems to be a real lemon, with lots of down time. Mahan should have a good line to organise spares.
powered by Eierlikör
 
qantas747flyer
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri May 06, 2011 10:29 am

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:13 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 42):
As far as Germany is concerned, the aircraft was exported to the Ukraine. Neither the Ukraine nor Russia or other CIS countries observe US and UN sanctions against Iran.

At the time of sale I believe that the German vendor (in compliance with international trade regulations) would have requested the "end user" details. In this case the Ukrainian company was not the "end user" of the aircraft, but rather simply a front company used to deliver the airplane to Iran's Mahan Air. Considering this therefore if the buyer (the Ukrainian company) submitted false information regarding the "end use" of the aircraft then by definition they are in breach of the trade restrictions against Iran. If however Mahan Air was indeed specified as the end user, and a German export license granted, the the deal is completely above board. The facts seem to indicate however that this was not the case.

Mahan Air got its fingers burned badly over the 747-400's it bought through a UK trading company - lets hope they don't have a repeat blunder in this case...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ns-from-trading-with-Iranians.html
 
PanHAM
Posts: 8533
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:13 pm

I mentioned before that it is the buyers obligation to apply for an export license, should one be required. A quick check tells me that at least for the jet engines a license was required under the "dual use" restrictions.

Now, that's exactly why they bought this through a Ukrainian company. The Ukraine is not on the list, a license will be issued by the federal agenvy in Eschborn and the aircraft leaves in the direction Kiev. Vebeg got the money from a German Bank, if there was an enduser certificate required it was a Ukrainian start-up, which, did not materialize and they had to re-sell -so sorry about that - to an Iranian carrier.

There is little Germany or anyone else can do about that as long as the Ukrainian government allows such deals to go unpunished.

.
powered by Eierlikör
 
beeweel15
Posts: 896
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2003 12:59 am

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:55 pm

Quoting sunilgupta (Reply 23):
if I, as an American company, knowingly sell something that is embargoed or sanctioned to a "3rd party" knowing full well it will end up in the wrong hands, I will spend time in jail - it is US Law and it is clear.

So that means that all the companies that do business with Saudi Arabia, China, Eastern Europe and countries friendly to Iran their CEO's should be in jail then.
 
777way
Posts: 6470
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:38 am

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:03 pm

Quoting qantas747flyer (Reply 43):

Mahan Air got its fingers burned badly over the 747-400's it bought

I dont think they bought them, nor does the link state that either.
 
qantas747flyer
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri May 06, 2011 10:29 am

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:03 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 44):
if there was an enduser certificate required it was a Ukrainian start-up

We need to consider to intent of the purchase - i.e. if the intent of listing the "Ukrainian start-up" as the end-user was simply to side-step sanctions and deliver the aircraft to Iran then chances are that some folks are going to wind up on a black-list someplace. If however the intent of listing the Ukrainian company was genuinely related to their planned use of the aircraft, and the concerned parties can demonstrate that that was in-fact the case (should this become the matter of an investigation) then there should be no issues with this.
 
qantas747flyer
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri May 06, 2011 10:29 am

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:22 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 46):

I dont think they bought them, nor does the link state that either.

There are lots of ways of looking at it - it could even be said that they stole the aircraft (see Wikipedia quote below) so lets not split hairs. Suffice to say that they got their fingers burnt badly with the experience and I hope for their sake that they don't have a repeat blunder on their hands with this.

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahan_Air

"The three 747-400s were according to the British High Court unlawfully taken by Mahan from their real owners in 2008 using forged bills of sale. When ordered to bring the aircraft back to Europe, Mahan apparently claimed they could not do so because they were being investigated by the Iranian authorities for fraud and the aircraft had to be kept in Iran".
 
777way
Posts: 6470
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:38 am

RE: Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:45 pm

^ Perhaps they did, could the reason too for repainting them in Mahan livery eventually.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: a380787, avi8tir, Baidu [Spider], barney captain, Bing [Bot], LCKip, MuhammadAli, NG263, tootallsd, ulker32, Yahoo [Bot] and 291 guests