XA744
Topic Author
Posts: 630
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 11:40 am

TAM´S GRU-MEX VV: Any Comments?

Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:51 pm

Hello all:

Well, already over a month since the start of TAM´s daily run to MEX from GRU...

Are there any relevant news in regards to performance of the flight; is it going according to initial expectations ? Have fares gone down, even slightly ? Are we seeing any changes at Aeromexico, the only other non-stop competitor on the route ? Fellows, like COPA, are they implementing any special marketing and sales strategies, to capture some of the traffic, via the "Hub of the Americas", for example ?

Have not seen any "deep" analysis in this regard in the "Brazilian Aviation News" thread. Would be wonderful to have some input from insiders at the airline, and from our Brazilian friends, in general. But, please, refrain from disclosing any critical info that could jeopardize, both TAM´s and AM´s strategies and policies...   

Best regards
No matter how you fly...just never get your wings clipped !
 
wingedtaurus
Posts: 84
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:25 pm

RE: TAM´S GRU-MEX VV: Any Comments?

Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:34 pm

Thanks for the post! Some time ago numbers were crunched and it was assumed that the route could have as much as three daily flights (or two if one was GIG-MEX). I hope they are doing well.

A.
 
Fyano773
Posts: 536
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 11:03 am

RE: TAM´S GRU-MEX VV: Any Comments?

Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:01 pm

From Brazilian media:


Tam tem ocupação de 75% na rota SP-Cidade do México

CIDADE DO MÉXICO - A nova rota diária da companhia aérea Tam, São Paulo-Cidade do México, está com ocupação de 75% nos primeiros dias de operação. Os voos, que iniciaram no último domingo (dia 30), são realizados com a aeronave A330, com capacidade para 223 passageiros.

Com esta nova rota, os voos regulares por mês para Cidade do México desde o Brasil são 68 no total, somando as operações realizadas pela Aeromexico. Com isso, a expectativa do crescimento do mercado brasileiro para o país deve ser de 6% em dezembro, e a estimativa para 2012 é um incremento de 33% de brasileiros no México.

http://www.panrotas.com.br/noticia-t...de-do-mexico_72936.html?pesquisa=1



Regards...
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: TAM´S GRU-MEX VV: Any Comments?

Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:17 am

Loads are great and even bigger than that, but the fares are still promotional, and yields are the ones for a new route
It's cheap to travel to Mexico on J than buy a Y ticket to Orlando in general.
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
XA744
Topic Author
Posts: 630
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 11:40 am

RE: TAM´S GRU-MEX VV: Any Comments?

Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:10 pm

Quoting Fyano773 (Reply 2):
Com isso, a expectativa do crescimento do mercado brasileiro para o país deve ser de 6% em dezembro, e a estimativa para 2012 é um incremento de 33% de brasileiros no México.

This is particularly interesting. Why such a dramatic forecasted growth ? How much oft he total traffic from Brazil to Mexico is leisure and how much corporate or business ?

Having in mind what Panrotas is commenting, then, additional capacity would be needed to serve the market properly, right ?

Best regards
No matter how you fly...just never get your wings clipped !
 
wingedtaurus
Posts: 84
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:25 pm

RE: TAM´S GRU-MEX VV: Any Comments?

Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:13 pm

GRU-MEX is around 197,000 pax a year, I would assume this could get easily to 250,000 by the end of 2012. It will be much bigger than EZE-MEX or SCL-MEX

[Edited 2011-11-22 08:14:42]
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6305
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: TAM´S GRU-MEX VV: Any Comments?

Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:50 pm

AM should really consider the possibility of getting 2-3 77Ws in order to send them to MAD and GRU.

There is a lot of business traffic between MEX and GRU thanks to the wave of investments by Mexican transnational corporations in Brazil during the first decade of this century. Now, I expect Brazilian banks, funds and corporations to speed up their investments in Mexico. We already have some Brazilian investment in different industries in Mexico... as Brazilian companies continue to grow and expand, Mexico will be an important market for them.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
XA744
Topic Author
Posts: 630
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 11:40 am

RE: TAM´S GRU-MEX VV: Any Comments?

Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:54 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 6):
AM should really consider the possibility of getting 2-3 77Ws in order to send them to MAD and GRU.

Yeah, you are pretty right about that !!!

...Would be interesting to know what´s in the mind of the investors at this airline... what are they afraid of ? What´s keeping them from "Putting a larger steak on the grill" or going for the "Whole Enchilada" !?!?!?

Best regards
No matter how you fly...just never get your wings clipped !
 
SCL767
Posts: 2812
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:25 am

RE: TAM´S GRU-MEX VV: Any Comments?

Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:13 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 6):
AM should really consider the possibility of getting 2-3 77Ws in order to send them to MAD and GRU.

IMO, AM should consider the B-787-9 to go along with the B-787-8s. Isn't AM getting an additional B772 soon?
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6305
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: TAM´S GRU-MEX VV: Any Comments?

Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:45 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 8):
AM should consider the B-787-9 to go along with the B-787-8s.

I am in complete agreement with you! That would be a great addition. The -900 would give AM a plane with fantastic range, improved performance ex-MEX, hard to match economics and almost the same cargo area and passenger capacity as the 777-200. In the long run, the -900 could even make the 77E unnecessary at AM's fleet, and would let AM operate a single model (787) for long haul, albeit in two variants.

For what it's worth, AM will now receive 7 instead of 5 788s.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 8):
Isn't AM getting an additional B772 soon?

Apparently not. According to our friend Ghost77, an extra 767 is coming very soon. I forget if this is a -300 or a -200. We were all wondering at the Mexican aviation thread if this extra 67 means additional frequencies to EZE or if it will basically be used by AM to make maintenance activities easier and to improve dispatch reliability.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
SCL767
Posts: 2812
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:25 am

RE: TAM´S GRU-MEX VV: Any Comments?

Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:07 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 9):

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 8):
AM should consider the B-787-9 to go along with the B-787-8s.

I am in complete agreement with you! That would be a great addition. The -900 would give AM a plane with fantastic range, improved performance ex-MEX, hard to match economics and almost the same cargo area and passenger capacity as the 777-200. In the long run, the -900 could even make the 77E unnecessary at AM's fleet, and would let AM operate a single model (787) for long haul, albeit in two variants.

It would also enable AM to venture further into Asia as well.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 9):
For what it's worth, AM will now receive 7 instead of 5 788s.

Hopefully this number will increase incrementally. It's great that we'll receive AM's B-787-8s at SCL.  
Quoting EddieDude (Reply 9):

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 8):
Isn't AM getting an additional B772 soon?

Apparently not. According to our friend Ghost77, an extra 767 is coming very soon. I forget if this is a -300 or a -200. We were all wondering at the Mexican aviation thread if this extra 67 means additional frequencies to EZE or if it will basically be used by AM to make maintenance activities easier and to improve dispatch reliability.

Perhaps it will be used to replace the weekly B772 service on the MEX-EZE route, and also serve to increase frequency on the route. Also, AM will eventually operate the MEX-SCL route on a daily basis.
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 2466
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

RE: TAM´S GRU-MEX VV: Any Comments?

Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:05 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 9):
The -900 would give AM a plane with fantastic range


For example, AM MEX-NRT as non-stop and AM MEX-PVG as non-stop.  
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6305
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: TAM´S GRU-MEX VV: Any Comments?

Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:08 am

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 10):
It would also enable AM to venture further into Asia as well

Or at a minimum perhaps skip the TIJ refueling stop.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 10):
Perhaps it will be used to replace the weekly B772 service on the MEX-EZE route, and also serve to increase frequency on the route.

It makes sense, especially considering that an AM officer recently mentioned that AM will reinforce its presence in Argentina.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 10):
Hopefully this number will increase incrementally. It's great that we'll receive AM's B-787-8s at SCL.

Agree on both counts.  
Quoting SCL767 (Reply 10):
Also, AM will eventually operate the MEX-SCL route on a daily basis.

That is very good news! I suppose the schedule reshuffling is working well for AM.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
SCL767
Posts: 2812
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:25 am

RE: TAM´S GRU-MEX VV: Any Comments?

Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:17 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 12):

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 10):
Perhaps it will be used to replace the weekly B772 service on the MEX-EZE route, and also serve to increase frequency on the route.

It makes sense, especially considering that an AM officer recently mentioned that AM will reinforce its presence in Argentina.

It's a premium route for AM, whereas it's the opposite for AR...

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 12):

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 10):
Also, AM will eventually operate the MEX-SCL route on a daily basis.

That is very good news! I suppose the schedule reshuffling is working well for AM.

Yep, the new schedule has increased AM's LF on the route. AM just needs to add one more weekly frequency on the route to make it daily. Also, AM and LA still continue to code-share on the SCL-MEX route.
 
olli
Posts: 214
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2001 1:08 pm

RE: TAM´S GRU-MEX VV: Any Comments?

Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:55 am

Great to hear TAM is doing good so far, however, expected.

It is good that AM finally has some competition on this route. In my personal experience with AM in the last 3 flight i have made to GRU, service was really bad. It couldn't get worse, honestly. The only attractive aspect that AM offers is the departure time from GRU.

I'm flying TAM next January and I'm a confident that i will find great service and product.

Best Regards,
 
embrider
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:17 pm

RE: TAM´S GRU-MEX VV: Any Comments?

Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:03 am

Do you know what aircraft is JJ using in this route? Can you "run the route" with one instead of 2 aircrafts?
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6305
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: TAM´S GRU-MEX VV: Any Comments?

Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:27 am

A332. AM needs more than one plane to do this flight because it flies both legs during the night. JJ, on the other hand, does one leg during the night and one leg during the day if I am not mistaken, so I would imagine it is doable with one plane (I am no expert)... probably a bit tight, and obviously you need to take into consideration the heavier checks and maintenance, but yeah. Consider that the flight is about 9 hours or 9 hours and 15 minutes long (as far as I remember from past experiences), so add to that the turnaround times.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
XA744
Topic Author
Posts: 630
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 11:40 am

RE: TAM´S GRU-MEX VV: Any Comments?

Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:50 pm

Quoting olli (Reply 14):
I'm flying TAM next January and I'm a confident that i will find great service and product.

Hi Olivier, it would be great if you could come up with a TR of your journey and flight experience with TAM...don´t leave home without your camera and without paper and pencil, please !!!

It is really a pity to hear your flights on AM to Brazil have been unpleasant. Can you elaborate a little bit ? Well, not that I intend to hijack the tread and turn into an Aeromexico bashing thing, but some insight about your flight experience would be interesting to hear, especially now that TAM is on the Mexican stage.

Maybe we should open another thread, just to discuss why AM has not been able to take full advantage of Mexicana´s demise. I mean, the Mexican government has been doing everything in their hands to block the return of MX, in favour of these fellows and the other two smaller ones...oh, well !!!

Best regards
No matter how you fly...just never get your wings clipped !

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