ATL
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Swiss And The American South

Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:52 am

Hi all!  

LX has exhibited itself to be a slow airline when it comes to adding new (long-haul) international destinations. That has of course, been mainly due to:

-Switzerland's small population
-ZRH being less of a connecting airport and more of an O&D airport
-Big brother LH taking care of most of the long-haul market

However, LX has recently announced new service to PEK starting February 2012, that being mostly likely due to the increasingly powerful position of China in world, with a huge boom of economic prosperity in recent years, and PEK being a Star Alliance hub. So clearly, LX is an airline that still adapts to the climate, so to speak, just like any other airline.

My point, however, is that in the past decade, the United States saw the majority of its growth stemming from the South. In fact, Houston, Dallas, and Atlanta are apparently the fastest growing metro areas in the US:

http://blog.chron.com/newswatch/2011...fastest-growing-metro-area-in-u-s/

According to this, Houston and Dallas each saw an increase of 1.2 million people each. Additionally, Houston, Dallas, and Atlanta are the 6th, 4th, and 9th biggest metro areas respectively already.

Meanwhile, SWISS, although having decent US service with JFK (with EWR in 2012), BOS, ORD, MIA, LAX, and SFO, has a huge gap in its network, with no major southern city (I wouldn't call MIA part of the south) being served by them. Sure, LH does already serve IAH, DFW, and ATL, but isn't there a certain need for direct Switzerland-South flights? IIRC AA used to serve ZRH from DFW with a 767 but eventually dropped out.

What I'm trying to get at here is that I believe that there's good reason to think that SWISS will or should open up service to the south in the near future. Especially considering the fact that IAH is a huge Star Alliance hub, and is getting even bigger now that UA and CO have merged. Also, the strong presence of UA express at IAH would mean ideal connections for LX passengers to even smaller Texas towns (A&M student from Switzerland maybe? lol).

If someone knows anything about the current Switzerland-US South market figures, that would be fantastic 

Alright, just wanted to share this thought. I think it's bound to happen real soon. I wouldn't say in a few months, but soon enough.

Wouldn't it be nice to see those A330-343Xs at IAH   
 
BMI727
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RE: Swiss And The American South

Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:03 am

I think IAH-ZRH might happen, but would more likely be on UA aircraft. Both ends are significant business markets, but different businesses. Houston is big in oil and energy, which isn't big in Switzerland, and Switzerland is big in finance and pharmaceuticals, which Houston isn't really big in.

The route may be viable as a hub to hub route, but then I'd think that IAH-MUC would be higher on the list than IAH-ZRH.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: Swiss And The American South

Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:27 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
Switzerland is big in finance and pharmaceuticals, which Houston isn't really big in.

Houston actually is very big in pharmaceuticals with the med center just south of downtown. We actually pride ourselves off of it. The intl. arrivals area in terminal e at IAH also has a MD Anderson "Welcome Center" (I think it is called that). So there is more potential than you give it.

Quoting ATL (Thread starter):
Wouldn't it be nice to see those A330-343Xs at IAH

And LX A340s as well for the 4-engine fans out there.  
Not every day we find light winds. What do we do in these situations? Fly.
 
ZRH
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RE: Swiss And The American South

Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:39 am

Quoting ATL (Thread starter):
-ZRH being less of a connecting airport and more of an O&D airport

This is not true. SWISS only can fill its 30 (from 2013 on 15 A 340 and 15 A 330) long-haul aircrafts with passengers from other places and absolutely not with o/d passengers. With only o/d passengers ZRH could support about five intercontinental destinations. So ZRH is a connecting airport.
 
aznmadsci
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RE: Swiss And The American South

Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:15 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 2):
The intl. arrivals area in terminal e at IAH also has a MD Anderson "Welcome Center" (I think it is called that). So there is more potential than you give it.

Texas Medical Center Welcome Center, which includes all hospitals and facilities in the Medical Center. However that Welcome Center is catered towards international patients seeking treatment in Houston rather than pharmaceutical business.
The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
 
LONGisland89
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RE: Swiss And The American South

Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:17 am

Quoting ATL" class="quote" target="_blank">ATL (Thread starter):
LX has exhibited itself to be a slow airline when it comes to adding new (long-haul) international destinations. That has of course, been mainly due to:

-Switzerland's small population
-ZRH being less of a connecting airport and more of an O&D airport
-Big brother LH taking care of most of the long-haul market

I think the main factor is, as you stated, LH's oversight of SWISS's operation. However, even with Switzerland's small population, history shows ZRH can still support more int'l service. Keep in mind, LX is a far cry from Swissair, but it's getting there. Today it seems no matter what SWISS does, it makes money. LX's profits and passenger numbers keep climbing.

As far as the South goes, you mentioned AA and DFW which was operated when LX and AA were in a partnership. Swissair also flew to ATL but that was primarily due to a partnership with DL (as part of their Atlantic Excellence alliance IIRC). Without the said partnerships, I don't think we'll ever see AA on DFW-ZRH (or LX for that matter) or ATL-ZRH on LX. IMO, the demand that exists for 'the South' to Switzerland is easily consumed by DL from ATL and via other connections from the various alliances in JFK, PHL, IAD, EWR, ORD etc. I do think, however, considering IAH's position with UA, that IAH-ZRH on a 763 is not out of the question. I heard LX is looking at IAD, maybe UA can switch that D to an H, who knows.
 
jfk777
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RE: Swiss And The American South

Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:39 pm

Dulles and Houston are two cities which SWISS could fly to South. CLT, USair's hub, could be a decent southern connecing point for SWISS.
 
ATL
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RE: Swiss And The American South

Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:55 pm

-I would imagine that UA would take care of service to IAH from ZRH, but maybe passengers who prefer LX on long haul would be disappointed to have to fly on UA (Although I do think UA is a great airline). Also, wouldn't SWISS have the priority on starting a route to IAH? They have a huge gap in their american network in the south:

http://www.swiss.com/web/EN/mobile/services/destinations/PublishingImages/Zurich/Zurich_IC_en.jpg

I'd imagine that LX would argue that UA has enough flights to ZRH and GVA already (From EWR and IAD) and enough flights to nearby areas (MUC), and thus, LX would be in a more cirtical need for a IAH route than UA would be, since they need to cover a certain uncovered area whereas UA would just be adding another route in an area of europe which is well covered by them.
 
LONGisland89
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RE: Swiss And The American South

Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:55 pm

Quoting ATL" class="quote" target="_blank">ATL (Reply 7):
I'd imagine that LX would argue that UA has enough flights to ZRH and GVA already (From EWR and IAD) and enough flights to nearby areas (MUC), and thus, LX would be in a more cirtical need for a IAH route than UA would be, since they need to cover a certain uncovered area whereas UA would just be adding another route in an area of europe which is well covered by them.

The logic of LX needing to cover an open area on a map doesn't make sense. They don't serve Australia. Does that mean they should fly there? SWISS returned to SFO when they already served LAX and that isn't exactly flying to uncovered areas on a map. Heck, the Star Alliance will have 6 daily NYC-Switzerland flights (4 of which on LX metal). With UA's service to IAD, LX's service to ORD, US's PHL service and LH's service to ATL, DFW, and IAH, the framework is already there to satisfy the demand there is for the 'US South' to Switzerland (specifically on Star Alliance). It isn't critical for IAH to have a direct link to Switzerland on LX, but IAH-ZRH on UA isn't far fetched. SWISS has bigger fish (or should I say potatoes) to fry elsewhere in the world.  
 
Viscount724
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RE: Swiss And The American South

Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:38 pm

Quoting ZRH" class="quote" target="_blank">ZRH (Reply 3):
Quoting ATL (Thread starter):
-ZRH being less of a connecting airport and more of an O&D airport

This is not true. SWISS only can fill its 30 (from 2013 on 15 A 340 and 15 A 330) long-haul aircrafts with passengers from other places and absolutely not with o/d passengers. With only o/d passengers ZRH could support about five intercontinental destinations. So ZRH is a connecting airport.

Agree. About 35% of total ZRH passengers are connecting but the figure is much higher for LX in isolation.
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: Swiss And The American South

Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:54 pm

Quoting ATL" class="quote" target="_blank">ATL (Thread starter):
Sure, LH does already serve IAH, DFW, and ATL, but isn't there a certain need for direct Switzerland-South flights? IIRC AA used to serve ZRH from DFW with a 767 but eventually dropped out.

That's pretty much the bottleneck right there - LH has the Southern US pretty well-covered, and likely that is sufficient as-is for what the region can support.

For what it's worth, the European carriers that will perform the strongest from markets like ATL, DFW and IAH will always be the ones in the JV Alliances with the hometown hub airline at each respective one. Hence, AF/KL/DL at ATL, AA/BA at DFW, and UA-CO/LH at IAH.

ATL is probably the least likely to receive LX in the future since they already have a nonstop flight to Zurich on Delta. ATL, moreover, is primarily a connecing hub, so there is little feed beyond ATL that LX can partner into. It's why outside of SkyTeam, ATL has only BA and LH, both of which consider ATL a pretty weak spoke in their networks carrying mostly lower-yield, connecting traffic over LHR and FRA.

Same situation with DFW, although DFW lacks a nonstop connection to Zurich. Still unlikely. LH and KL (seasonal, less than daily) also carry the bottom-barrel traffic over FRA and AMS.

IAH, on the other hand, might have some chance, but the Star Alliance network on LX is pretty strong over the Atlantic into Zurich, by way of CO/UA, US, and LX metal itself. Not sure if Houston could fill any "gap" existing in that network with a nonstop flight to ZRH. It may, but I, like others, see an IAH-MUC flight coming before anything.
confidence is silent. insecurities are loud.
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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RE: Swiss And The American South

Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:00 pm

Swissair used to fly ZRH-ATL as recently as the late 1990s. I flew a SR B747 on the route in 1997.

(FWIW, the Westin at Lenox Mall in Buckhead was originally a Swissotel.)
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: Swiss And The American South

Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:04 pm

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 11):
Swissair used to fly ZRH-ATL as recently as the late 1990s. I flew a SR B747 on the route in 1997.

So did I! It was a great flight! 747-300 IIRC.
confidence is silent. insecurities are loud.
 
point2point
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RE: Swiss And The American South

Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:08 pm

Quoting ATL" class="quote" target="_blank">ATL (Thread starter):
Additionally, Houston, Dallas, and Atlanta are the 6th, 4th, and 9th biggest metro areas respectively already.

IAH could be the best and probably only possibility of the three for LX. DL already has a n/s ATL-ZRH I believe, and I don't see LX doing at all well on this route with ATL being the biggest of all ST hubs. Basically the same with DFW, I think that LX would just get mobbed going into this OW airport.

It's possible MCO could be a destination, but that would be mostly vacationers, and the fares that go along with them.

CLT is an outside shot, being a *A city. Both Zurich and Charlotte are banking centers. There would be lots of connecting possibilities into the South, and further into the rest of the U.S. mainland as well. And less than daily, and probably even seasonal.

And if one would want to focus on *A, it's also possible for DEN to be considered..... after all, Colorado (and probably a number of parts of it as well) is sometimes referred to as "The Switzerland of America" so this could appeal to business, vacationers, and connection possibilities out West as well? And also less than daily, and too probably even seasonal.

And then maybe there's PHX - as an *A hub also. This would give PHX a foot into the European mainland, lots of connections further, and give the Swiss some hot, hot sun in the American Southwest. And again, less than daily, and probably also even seasonal.

But after that, well, there really isn't that much, and other than MCO (do the Swiss take to Disney?) even the other three cities are iffy, iffy iffy.......
 
BMI727
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RE: Swiss And The American South

Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:20 pm

Quoting point2point (Reply 13):
CLT is an outside shot, being a *A city. Both Zurich and Charlotte are banking centers. There would be lots of connecting possibilities into the South, and further into the rest of the U.S. mainland as well. And less than daily, and probably even seasonal.

Unfortunately, it's too far for a 757, but US still does have their 762, which while having a higher seat cost, might be able to make the route work if they get enough business traffic.

Quoting point2point (Reply 13):
And if one would want to focus on *A, it's also possible for DEN to be considered..... after all, Colorado (and probably a number of parts of it as well) is sometimes referred to as "The Switzerland of America" so this could appeal to business, vacationers, and connection possibilities out West as well?

What connections could be offered from DEN that aren't offered equally well from SFO and ORD?

Quoting point2point (Reply 13):
And then maybe there's PHX - as an *A hub also. This would give PHX a foot into the European mainland, lots of connections further, and give the Swiss some hot, hot sun in the American Southwest. And again, less than daily, and probably also even seasonal.

There is not even a Frankfurt flight from Phoenix at this time.

At this point, unless I missed something, all of the Swiss destinations in North America have service to Munich, which I think is a somewhat similar case to Zurich, being a decent sized business market with some connecting opportunities, but not a huge hub. I'd be looking for any of these potential LX destinations to see service to MUC first, not really as a hard and fast rule, but just as a sort of bellweather of the market.
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SR4ever
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RE: Swiss And The American South

Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:15 pm

Quoting ZRH" class="quote" target="_blank">ZRH (Reply 3):
So ZRH is a connecting airport.

It is indeed, sooooo convenient  
Quoting point2point (Reply 13):
IAH could be the best and probably only possibility of the three for LX.

Agreed. ATL and DFW are dead ends for LX.

Quoting point2point (Reply 13):
It's possible MCO could be a destination, but that would be mostly vacationers, and the fares that go along with them.

WK flies to MCO, and is more suited than LX to such a low-yield, leisure destination. And dont' forget LX code-shares with WK  
Quoting point2point (Reply 13):
CLT is an outside shot, being a *A city. Both Zurich and Charlotte are banking centers. There would be lots of connecting possibilities into the South, and further into the rest of the U.S. mainland as well. And less than daily, and probably even seasonal.

A 4-weekly (to start with) 762 could work and break even on ZRH-CLT, but perhaps a 332 or 788 would be more suitable.

IAH and IAD are the likeliest next 2 destinations on LX route map. GIG is likely to be the next one in South America.


Pity WK pulled out of ANC and YXY...
 
Independence76
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RE: Swiss And The American South

Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:54 pm

IAH does seem like a legitimate contender, and easily the most likely of the 3 airports mentioned to be picked. ATL seems like a likely contender as well, picking up on the old SR route.

However, when it comes to European carriers, I never completely rule out DFW. The DFW-EU market has been in a strange mix this past year, with KLM going from "successful" (AKAIK) to Summer seasonal-only and LH going from a 7x weekly to 5x weekly and back to 7x weekly (along with completely switching from an A343 to an A333 year-round). BA and their 744's have been doing very well.

The idea of LX jumping into DFW, while highly improbable, seems to me that it could be a very small possibility, considering the growth of this region. With LH's hand on LX, I would be curious to see the numbers they would come up with if they replace their FRA route with ZRH. This also reminds me of 2001, when Sabena started nonstop between BRU-DFW with an A332. I have no idea how well this route did, however, with the airline going bankrupt only months later.

LH could also reconsider their stance with SN and DFW if the numbers play right, but I'm not counting on anything that imaginary. With Emirates flying to DFW in 2012, I consider myself nervous for other international carriers there.
 
Thrust
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RE: Swiss And The American South

Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:17 pm

I'm actually wondering why Swiss doesn't serve MCO. Is it because of LH? MCO seems like a city in the American South that Swiss should be serving. Are they not serving Charlotte because of U.S. Airways? I'm guessing that LH is probably the reason Swiss isn't venturing into DFW.
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mozart
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RE: Swiss And The American South

Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:42 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
Houston is big in oil and energy, which isn't big in Switzerland,

Probably #2 or #3 oil and commodities trading place in the world (or is it #1 by now?). However that business is primarily in Geneva, not in Zurich. Some is in Zug, for which Zurich is the closest airport.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Swiss And The American South

Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:48 pm

Quoting Thrust (Reply 17):
I'm actually wondering why Swiss doesn't serve MCO.

LX can make much better use of their longhaul fleet which have a high percentage of premium class seats in other markets. The first class and most of the business class seats on LX A330s and A340s would be a waste to MCO. That would be a more suitable market for LX's leisure carrier Edelweiss Air.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Swiss And The American South

Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:59 pm

Miami is in the South and that's how Swiss chooses to serve the Southern United States. Florida is Switzerland's largest trading partner in the South and Miami-Zurich is the third largest U.S.-Switzerland local market. So it's a logical way for Swiss to serve the Southern U.S.

I wouldn't rule out Houston service in the future, as it connects two major Star hubs. That said, IAHZRH and DFWZRH are absolutely local tiny markets. They are both roughly the same size, and are less than 12 PDEW. Non-stop service, though, could probably stimulate either market by 100-150%, and put it in the same size as ATLZRH.

Quoting Thrust (Reply 17):

I'm actually wondering why Swiss doesn't serve MCO. Is it because of LH? MCO seems like a city in the American South that Swiss should be serving. Are they not serving Charlotte because of U.S. Airways? I'm guessing that LH is probably the reason Swiss isn't venturing into DFW.

Because Swiss focuses on larger O&D markets with strong premium demand. Neither Charlotte nor Orlando fit that mold. MCOZRH isn't a large local market, it's less than 20 PDEW.
a.
 
Av8rDAL
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RE: Swiss And The American South

Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:36 am

ATL-ZRH was a very empty flight the last time I took it in 2008 (December). Less than 100 passengers. I can't see the demand in it for LX to add an A330 to it without some kind of partnership. But Delta already sucks most of the connecting traffic from Greater Europe through CDG and AMS to the ATL hub.

Maybe CLT. Star Alliance has numerous connection opportunities and there may be a fair amount of O/D traffic from the local banking industry, Novartis (though they're in Raleigh and Basel), etc.
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UAL747
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RE: Swiss And The American South

Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:54 am

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 11):
Swissair used to fly ZRH-ATL as recently as the late 1990s. I flew a SR B747 on the route in 1997.

SR flew to ATL because of the cooperation with DL at the time. Not sure if it was a codeshare, but I think it was.

Quoting point2point (Reply 13):
Basically the same with DFW, I think that LX would just get mobbed going into this OW airport.

DFW has had a long history of service to ZRH by AA, and only recently did they discontinue the route. SR and AA had a codeshare/cooperation on the route that climaxed around 2000-2001 with AA using a 777 on the route. Flew this one myself and connected on SR to FCO. The flights were packed and hauling Eastern Europeans and South Americans back and forth as well.

Quoting point2point (Reply 13):
And if one would want to focus on *A, it's also possible for DEN to be considered..... after all, Colorado (and probably a number of parts of it as well) is sometimes referred to as "The Switzerland of America" so this could appeal to business, vacationers, and connection possibilities out West as well? And also less than daily, and too probably even seasonal.

I'm betting IAH would be in line to receive the first service from LX, with DEN in a close second out of all the available airports. DEN is a unique opportunity as it only receives international transatlantic service from LH and BA. United mainly uses this hub as a connection point to west coast destinations. Most of these flights on LH feed into United's system feeding that region and the far west as overflow from nonstop west coast flights. Now, whether or not LH wants to take away from the FRA flight, that's up to them. The FRA flight is now operated with a 744, up from the A346.

UAL
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KLAXAirport
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RE: Swiss And The American South

Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:56 am

Kind of out of subject, Could LAX be upgraded to 2 times daily or a few times more in a week on their ZRH-LAX route? As far as I know LX does very well on their ZRH-LAX route.

Cheers
KLAXAirport   
 
MAH4546
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RE: Swiss And The American South

Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:36 am

[quote=Av8rDAL,reply=21]Maybe CLT. Star Alliance has numerous connection opportunities and there may be a fair amount of O/D traffic from the local banking industry, Novartis (though they're in Raleigh and Basel), etc.[/quote

The O&D market isn't a fair amount. It is less than 8 PDEW.
a.
 
LONGisland89
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RE: Swiss And The American South

Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:26 am

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 22):
Swissair used to fly ZRH-ATL as recently as the late 1990s. I flew a SR B747 on the route in 1997.
Quoting UAL747 (Reply 22):
SR flew to ATL because of the cooperation with DL at the time. Not sure if it was a codeshare, but I think it was.

Yes indeed it was code share. I wrote earlier that it was part of the Atlantic Excellence Alliance.

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 15):
WK flies to MCO

MCO was dropped. TPA starts June 2012.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 20):
Miami is in the South and that's how Swiss chooses to serve the Southern United States.

Agree with your insight, but the OP noted LX and MIA and is specifically talking about the 'Dixie South'
 
jasoncrh
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RE: Swiss And The American South

Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:11 am

Actually, Swissair served Atlanta far before the Atlantic Excellence began, before code shares began, and before the whole notion of Alliances began. i think they started ZRH-ATL in some form in the late 1980s. My family and I flew SR 121/120 ATL-ZRH-ATL in 1991, and that flight did not have any code share with Delta. That said, those were the days before DL had the network they did in Atlanta to Europe, and way before they were in alliances. In those days, airlines such as SR, LH, and SN flew to Atlanta and did, however, rely on interline connections with Delta to fill those transatlantic flights. My family and I, for example, started in SDF on DL and switched to SR in Atlanta. I'd say a fair portion of the passengers on the ATL-ZRH-ATL flights had also connected in Atlanta from DL. In those days, the whole interline thing was so pervsive that you did, for example, see the SR flight listed in the DL timetable, but without a DL flight number - it literally just said SR 121. Same with the LH flights to ATL - they were listed in the DL timetable as well but as pure LH flights.
Then the mid '90s came along and the whole code share/ alliance structure that we know today started to form. SR did very well while they were allied with Delta, but by the time Delta allied with AF, SR declined and was gone from Atlanta by 2000

Quoting LONGisland89 (Reply 25):
Quoting UAL747 (Reply 22):
Swissair used to fly ZRH-ATL as recently as the late 1990s. I flew a SR B747 on the route in 1997.
Quoting UAL747 (Reply 22):
SR flew to ATL because of the cooperation with DL at the time. Not sure if it was a codeshare, but I think it was.

Yes indeed it was code share. I wrote earlier that it was part of the Atlantic Excellence Alliance.
 
LONGisland89
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RE: Swiss And The American South

Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:34 am

Oops I'm sorry, I thought their service was just in conjunction with DL. I just wanted to also note that the last Swissair 747 flight was ATL-ZRH. This video makes me sad. Sure miss seeing those chocolate stripes at JFK. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMmGRvPvyMI
 
Viscount724
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RE: Swiss And The American South

Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:25 am

Quoting JasonCRH (Reply 26):
Actually, Swissair served Atlanta far before the Atlantic Excellence began, before code shares began, and before the whole notion of Alliances began. i think they started ZRH-ATL in some form in the late 1980s.

Inaugural ZRH-ATL flight was March 29, 1987. Initial service was 5 per week with DC-10-30.
 
SR4ever
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RE: Swiss And The American South

Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:42 am

Quoting mozart (Reply 18):
However that business is primarily in Geneva, not in Zurich.

Right, but wouldn't IAH-ZRH-GVA be acceptable, with short transfer times at ZRH (which the frequency offered by LX on GVA-ZRH enables) ?

Quoting Av8rDAL (Reply 21):
Maybe CLT. Star Alliance has numerous connection opportunities and there may be a fair amount of O/D traffic from the local banking industry, Novartis (though they're in Raleigh and Basel), etc.

Agreed, but would a 333 be an appropriate frame on that route?

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 22):
I'm betting IAH would be in line to receive the first service from LX, with DEN in a close second out of all the available airports.

Interesting, but what kind of O/D traffic ca one expect on ZRH-DEN?

Quoting KLAXAirport (Reply 23):
Kind of out of subject, Could LAX be upgraded to 2 times daily or a few times more in a week on their ZRH-LAX route? As far as I know LX does very well on their ZRH-LAX route.

ZRH-LAX does well indeed, but an upgauge of the daily flight from 343 to 346 (from LH) would be easier, and more profitable.
 
mozart
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RE: Swiss And The American South

Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:57 am

What is/are PDEW?

Thanks
 
point2point
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RE: Swiss And The American South

Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:31 pm

Quoting mozart (Reply 30):
What is/are PDEW

Passengers per Day Each Way.....

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 14):
What connections could be offered from DEN that aren't offered equally well from SFO and ORD?

PVU, FMN, IDA, RKS, LBB, TEX, CYS, LBL, and SHR.....

Okay.... 

.....kidding-kidding.....

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 29):
Interesting, but what kind of O/D traffic ca one expect on ZRH-DEN?

I think it's somewhere around 15 O&D PDEW, but this is something that I believe that I saw about 10+ years ago, so it may have gone up a few bodies since.

Yes, it would be tough with a DEN/ZRH flight, but again, a less than weekly, and in summertime, a few flights might get filled at a competitive price. And only because it would be *A hub to hub, maybe...?

And probably Edelweiss would work better IF this route were ever considered.

...... moving on......



 
 
Viscount724
Posts: 18822
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Swiss And The American South

Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:21 pm

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 29):
Quoting mozart (Reply 18):
However that business is primarily in Geneva, not in Zurich.

Right, but wouldn't IAH-ZRH-GVA be acceptable, with short transfer times at ZRH (which the frequency offered by LX on GVA-ZRH enables) ?

Between 1350 and 2125 LX has only 2 ZRH-GVA flights, and both close together at 1740 and 1825, meaning periods of 4 and 3 hours with no flights. Also a couple of 3 hour periods GVA-ZRH with no lights. In those cases it's faster to take the train. Their GVA-ZRH schedules are designed with primary connections in mind but if a flight is delayed it can sometimes mean a long wait.
 
jfrworld
Posts: 365
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 8:21 am

RE: Swiss And The American South

Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:30 am

Keep in mind that SFO-ZRH only came about because of a contract signed with Roche pharma after it bought SFO based Genentech. Without that contact, SFO would not have been started.
 
Longhornmaniac
Posts: 2958
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:33 pm

RE: Swiss And The American South

Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:45 am

I could see IAH, as it connects two Star hubs, but the other routes I'm skeptical could be made to work. In today's day and age, airline alliances function more and more as a double hub connection, meaning XXX-DFW-LHR-XXX, and only in cases where there's enough O&D demand do P2P routes happen. LX/LH are much more likely to route their pax through FRA, while AA would send oneworld pax through LHR or MAD.

Quoting ATL (Thread starter):
A&M

You had me until this.   

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
Cameron
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: Swiss And The American South

Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:42 am

Quoting jfrworld (Reply 33):

Keep in mind that SFO-ZRH only came about because of a contract signed with Roche pharma after it bought SFO based Genentech. Without that contact, SFO would not have been started.

You really sure? I rather guess because this flight connects two Star Alliance hubs. Roche is not in Zurich but in Basle.
 
sfredspot
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:15 am

RE: Swiss And The American South

Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:42 am

Quoting ZRH (Reply 35):
You really sure? I rather guess because this flight connects two Star Alliance hubs. Roche is not in Zurich but in Basle.

The Roche deal was widely reported in the Bay Area when the route started, though this article from a well-known local travel blogger also hints that other companies (e.g., Google) may have been at least informally involved.

http://blog.sfgate.com/cmcginnis/201...swiss-flower-power-arrives-at-sfo/

Quote:
Speaking of business travelers, it’s because of them that SWISS is here in the first place. Remember last year when SF-based Genentech was acquired by Roche? Roche is based in Zurich, and the company played a big part the SWISS decision to come here, according to Marcel Biedermann, SWISS’ managing director of sales and marketing. (Everyone chuckled when I asked if this should be called the “Roche Coach.”) He also told me that Google, which has a large facility in Zurich, lobbied heavily for the new nonstops.
 
jfrworld
Posts: 365
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 8:21 am

RE: Swiss And The American South

Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:27 am

Quoting ZRH (Reply 35):
You really sure? I rather guess because this flight connects two Star Alliance hubs. Roche is not in Zurich but in Basle.

Yes, I'm sure. The non-stop was desired so that employees could avoid the connection and 3+ hour layover in FRA. Although other companies may have lobbied, when all was said and done Roche was the driver.
 
virginvsbritish
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:15 pm

RE: Swiss And The American South

Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:15 pm

I'd sure love to see LX return to IAD, but with UA already operating steady service to ZRH and GVA, I don't know if it'll happen
I want a 787 for Christmas, thank you.
 
DALelite
Posts: 1318
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 7:00 am

RE: Swiss And The American South

Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:39 pm

Quoting JasonCRH (Reply 26):
Actually, Swissair served Atlanta far before the Atlantic Excellence began, before code shares began, and before the whole notion of Alliances began. i think they started ZRH-ATL in some form in the late 1980s. My family and I flew SR 121/120 ATL-ZRH-ATL in 1991, and that flight did not have any code share with Delta. That said, those were the days before DL had the network they did in Atlanta to Europe, and way before they were in alliances. In those days, airlines such as SR, LH, and SN flew to Atlanta and did, however, rely on interline connections with Delta to fill those transatlantic flights. My family and I, for example, started in SDF on DL and switched to SR in Atlanta. I'd say a fair portion of the passengers on the ATL-ZRH-ATL flights had also connected in Atlanta from DL. In those days, the whole interline thing was so pervsive that you did, for example, see the SR flight listed in the DL timetable, but without a DL flight number - it literally just said SR 121. Same with the LH flights to ATL - they were listed in the DL timetable as well but as pure LH flights.
Then the mid '90s came along and the whole code share/ alliance structure that we know today started to form. SR did very well while they were allied with Delta, but by the time Delta allied with AF, SR declined and was gone from Atlanta by 2000

In 1989 Swissair and Delta exchanged a block of shares. In the same year Swissair opened the ZRH-ATL flight. In December 1991 Delta expanded their TATL services dramatically. In Spring 1993 DL/SR started to codeshare. Delta gave up their JFK-ZRH flight No. 90 but recieved CVG-ZRH. In August 2000 the last codeshare between SR/DL took place .

cheers: DALelite
They loved to fly and it showed..
 
LXLucien
Posts: 314
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 2:51 am

RE: Swiss And The American South

Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:19 pm

Hey guys,

Quoting jfrworld (Reply 37):
Although other companies may have lobbied, when all was said and done Roche was the driver.

LX employs a lot of Account Manager who just look after big costumer like Google and Roche.
Originally, the BBJ service to EWR was planed to fly from BSL, but Roche and Novartis couldn't get enough Traffic for LX, so they started it from ZRH.
So if Roche or Novartis could bring up enough passenger each day, LX would fly them there.
If I remember correctly, doesn't KLM fly with a BBJ to IAH? Maybe that would be a solution as LX ends their service and could use it somewhere else?

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 15):
Pity WK pulled out of ANC and YXY...

What??? So no ANC next summer?  
Quote "Syriana": "Beirut, it's like Paris in the Mid-East"
 
drerx7
Posts: 4203
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2000 12:19 am

RE: Swiss And The American South

Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:48 pm

Quoting LXLucien (Reply 40):
If I remember correctly, doesn't KLM fly with a BBJ to IAH? Maybe that would be a solution as LX ends their service and could use it somewhere else?

Not anymore - it ended at the beginning of Nov. and was replaced with an A330-200.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
LXLucien
Posts: 314
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 2:51 am

RE: Swiss And The American South

Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:34 pm

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 41):
Not anymore - it ended at the beginning of Nov. and was replaced with an A330-200.

Ok thx, so same fate for the KLM BBJ as for the LX BBJ which will be replaced by an A343 in spring.
Quote "Syriana": "Beirut, it's like Paris in the Mid-East"
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4459
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: Swiss And The American South

Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:46 pm

Quoting ATL (Thread starter):
with no major southern city (I wouldn't call MIA part of the south) being served by them.

First we have a member claiming Miami was not on the East Coast, now we have someone claiming it isn't in the south!!


What ever happened tp simple geography in our schools?
 
drerx7
Posts: 4203
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2000 12:19 am

RE: Swiss And The American South

Sun Nov 27, 2011 6:04 pm

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 43):
First we have a member claiming Miami was not on the East Coast, now we have someone claiming it isn't in the south!!


What ever happened tp simple geography in our schools?

I've had to argue with folks that Houston isn't the south...I don't think they are teaching geography anymore SMH.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
ATL
Topic Author
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:20 am

RE: Swiss And The American South

Sun Nov 27, 2011 6:36 pm

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 34):

Quoting ATL (Thread starter):
A&M

You had me until this.   

Haha, just an example  I meant Austin as much as CS.

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 43):

First we have a member claiming Miami was not on the East Coast, now we have someone claiming it isn't in the south!!


What ever happened tp simple geography in our schools?

Miami is part of the southern region of the United States for sure. However, it isn't part of the south in the traditional sense. I've been in Miami for the past week, and I assure you it's a completely different world from Atlanta or Dallas. The rest of Florida is part of the south, but once you are in Miami it's like being in a hybrid between the US, Spain, Cuba, and Southern America lol. The culture here is completely different from typical southern culture....
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4459
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: Swiss And The American South

Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:28 pm

Quoting ATL (Reply 45):
I've been in Miami for the past week, and I assure you it's a completely different world from Atlanta or Dallas. The rest of Florida is part of the south, but once you are in Miami it's like being in a hybrid between the US, Spain, Cuba, and Southern America lol.



I'll bet you could see the Atlantic ocean from several places in Miami. That would kind of give you the feeling that Miami was on the East coast. Which was also part of my dilemma
 
Viscount724
Posts: 18822
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Swiss And The American South

Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:09 pm

Quoting LXLucien (Reply 42):
Quoting drerx7 (Reply 41):
Not anymore - it ended at the beginning of Nov. and was replaced with an A330-200.

Ok thx, so same fate for the KLM BBJ as for the LX BBJ which will be replaced by an A343 in spring.

I noted a PrivatAir BBJ parked in a remote parking area near the threshold of runway 23 at GVA on Saturday. I´m guessing it´s the one that operated AMS-IAH-AMS for KLM until the end of October.
 
LXLucien
Posts: 314
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 2:51 am

RE: Swiss And The American South

Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:47 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 47):

Might be true, does anyone know what will happen with those BBJ's?

The best thing would be that LX or PrivatAir will upgrade the BBJ (better IFE and seats) and then operate for LX again, IAD, CLT, IAH as mentioned above.
Quote "Syriana": "Beirut, it's like Paris in the Mid-East"
 
FlySwiss
Posts: 406
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 8:45 pm

RE: Swiss And The American South

Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:14 pm

If I remember right, LX will not extend the contract with the BBJ from Private Air using for the EWR route.
Simle at the world and the world smiles back :)

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