328JET
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Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:59 am

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...0-with-sharklets-installed-365108/


The next step in evolution of the A320-family!

Hopefully some more airlines will sign for sharklets for their A320 classics after the test flights.
 
SRT75
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:39 pm

From the article:

"Installation of the sharklet requires inboard and outboard reinforcement to handle different loading, as well as changes to outer wing ribs to accommodate the structure."

Sounds like an expensive retrofit. Will it be more expensive to add sharklets to an A320 than to add Aviation Partners Boeing winglets to a 737?
 
BD338
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:53 pm

Quoting SRT75 (Reply 1):

Sounds like an expensive retrofit. Will it be more expensive to add sharklets to an A320 than to add Aviation Partners Boeing winglets to a 737?

I'm not sure it's available as a retrofit, just an option on new builds and standard on neo aircraft.
 
bj87
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:59 pm

This should be a great addition to the A320 series.

Quoting SRT75 (Reply 1):
Sounds like an expensive retrofit. Will it be more expensive to add sharklets to an A320 than to add Aviation Partners Boeing winglets to a 737?

I was thinking the same thing. It almost sounds as if they have to practically re-build the wing to give it the necessary strength. Sounds extremely expensive.

However quote from the article
"Sharklets, which replace the A320's wing fences, will reduce fuel-burn on the type by up to 3.5% on longer sectors of around 3,000nm (5,560km), Airbus claims.

The airframer also expects the sharklets - each of which is 2.5m (8.2ft) tall - to improve take-off performance by up to 3t."

This might make it worth while if the bus still has a lot of service life left. The 3tonne take off performance increase can open up certain routes from airports where the A320 suffers from weight limitations. So who knows, maybe in combination with a large maintenance check where the plane is out of service anyway it might be worth while. (I am no expert though so just guessing here  

All that said. It might be the angle of the photograph but I have to say the winglets don't look as "odd" as on the 737. The winglets on the 737 seem out of proportion to me where as they look okay on the A320 from this angle.
 
328JET
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:00 pm

Quoting SRT75 (Reply 1):
Sounds like an expensive retrofit.

All wing re-inforcements are the standard for all A320-wings Airbus will prdoduce from 2012 onwards.
No matter, if the airline ordered sharklets or the conventional wingtip fences.

Airbus is doing some re-inforcements and also weight savings to keep the weight of the "new" wing as low as possible.


To come back to your question:

The B737NG needed re-inforcements as well before winglet installation.

[Edited 2011-11-22 05:03:11]
 
777way
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:28 pm

I notice new Typeface for Airbus A320, when did this change?
 
flyguy89
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:48 pm

It just looks bizarre to me for some reason...I liked the triangular wingtips better, just seemed to flow better with the overall look of the A320. But I guess that's why I'm not an aerodynamics engineer  
 
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breiz
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:46 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 5):
I notice new Typeface for Airbus A320, when did this change?


Before roll-out with the sharklets.
In line with the new website.

[Edited 2011-11-22 06:59:19]
 
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garpd
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:51 pm

Looks identical to the aviation partners blended winglet.
I suppose that is to be expected though, they do the same job, so will look similar. At least outwardly.
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Burkhard
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:57 pm

I do not expect too much interest for retrofit, since going from wingtip fences to sharklets is of lower intererest than the nothing to sharklets on the 737NG.
 
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:34 pm

Thank god the A380 still has fences. Somehow I don't like the optics of the sharklets (too big compared to the smaller aircraft that have them). My preference still are the wingtips on the 747 / A330 / A340 or the tip-fence combi on the MD11.
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:12 pm

Quoting BD338 (Reply 2):
I'm not sure it's available as a retrofit, just an option on new builds and standard on neo aircraft.

The sharklets are not retrofittable to pre-2012 build A320s.  

Airbus has promised a less effective sharklet as a retrofit. I've lost the thread on the retrofit winglets... any news?

Quoting bj87 (Reply 3):
The 3tonne take off performance increase can open up certain routes from airports where the A320 suffers from weight limitations.

That will be huge. In particular for B6 from BUR and other airlines doing TCON length missions with the A320.

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 9):
I do not expect too much interest for retrofit, since going from wingtip fences to sharklets is of lower intererest than the nothing to sharklets on the 737NG.

Even a 2% drop in fuel burn with a mere 1t payload/fuel improvement would help. There will be interest as long as Airbus completes the A320 life cycle extension. (Which they should.)

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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:14 pm

Quoting bj87 (Reply 3):
The winglets on the 737 seem out of proportion to me

They do seem gangly on the ground especially bouncing around when taxiing but in the air I think they look dead sexy.

744 winglets are still my favourite.


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timpdx
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:31 pm

Its going to make it harder to distinguish 737s from A320s from a distance now.

A330 has my favorite look for its angled wingtips.
 
bonusonus
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:52 pm

My favorite winglets are definitely the ones on the 767-300ER. Those things are freaking huge!

Anyone know what the EIS of the first sharkletted A320 is?
 
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:58 pm

Next thing we know they are gonna start putting 8ft winglets on the ends of the horizontal stabilizers as well   All kidding aside its great that the addition of winglets can really make such a measureable difference. I will also say I am pleasantly surprised at how nice they look on the A320. To me the A320 looks less sleek than the 737's so I was expecting winglets to look a bit goofy, but overall they look great!!
 
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:06 pm

Since we´re voting:

B744 / A330 / A340 are the nicest looking "lets".
Very subtle, very sleek……..

Embraer has nice ones too……..but on the B737 / 767 they seem too big!
I guess the A320 will go that way too……….


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airproxx
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:06 pm

Quoting 328JET (Thread starter):

Hopefully some more airlines will sign for sharklets for their A320 classics after the test flights.

Hahaha! I remember, when Boeing launched with API the wingleted 737, Airbus relatives saying "yeah, We do not need any 'fast and furious' styled winglets on our planes, the A320 wing is just perfect...."
And now, some years later... This! The Airbus' "Sharklets"....
Ridiculous, really!
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my235
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:32 pm

My gracious Airbus! It's about time those wing fences got replaced. 3.5% doesn't sound all that much though. And only on the longest sectors? All this is talk as well. We shall see.

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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:34 pm

I don't know if these should be called "Sharklets" anymore.

The final product:



...is a far cry from the prototypes that gave it the name "Sharklet":



The final product just looks like a regular blended winglet. It would have been cool if they went with one that looked like the A330/A340 winglets like they originally researched:



But, if it saves gas, it saves gas...and that is what counts LOL!
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Cipango
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:45 pm

They look slick!

Lets hope there's a repeat of what happened with the introduction of the 737 winglets, how most airlines added them to their existing fleet.
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:56 pm

Quoting my235 (Reply 18):
3.5% doesn't sound all that much though.

The savings are about the same as from APB winglets installed on Boeing aircraft. It's not much, but sure it adds up through the life of the airframe.
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:58 pm

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 19):

Actually, the final product looks like a hybrid of the two earlier design you posted.

It doesn't look too bad, given the A320 doesn't have a look that accepts winglets easily, unlike the 737.
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Cipango
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:16 pm

Quoting francoflier (Reply 22):
Quote:
It doesn't look too bad, given the A320 doesn't have a look that accepts winglets easily, unlike the 737.

I'd say people would get used to it very fast!
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:34 pm

Very nice. I feel like B6's test winglets looked very cool and 'aggressive' if you will, but all in all this new roll out winglet actually looks better... more real looking lol Also if we're voting on favorite winglets:

-737
-A330
-767
 
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:41 pm

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 19):
I don't know if these should be called "Sharklets" anymore.

That's exactly what I thought when I saw that picture. The sharklet presented some months ago e.g. when they announced that NZ order ended like the shark-like tail fin of the 787, the cockpit windows of the A 350 and so on and so on
 
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:27 pm

Quoting SRT75 (Reply 1):
Sounds like an expensive retrofit. Will it be more expensive to add sharklets to an A320 than to add Aviation Partners Boeing winglets to a 737?

As mentioned, retrofit on older A32X's is not an option. The reinforcements necessary to make them work are too substantial to be economically feasible as a retrofit.

Quoting 328JET (Reply 4):
The B737NG needed re-inforcements as well before winglet installation.

True, but the 737NG definitely got more "bang for the buck.". The Boeing requires 150kg of reinforcement at the tip. The Airbus requires over 1000kg worth of strengthening throughout the wing to get the same result. That's why older 737NG's are retrofittable. A32X's are not.

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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:39 pm

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 19):
I don't know if these should be called "Sharklets" anymore.

Yeah, it was a silly name to start with, now it's just pointless. But I guess they want to differentiate between the blended winglet Boeing is using, to indicate it's more advanced or simply cooler?
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:44 pm

I would like to see some more pictures before making a decision whether I like this change or not :P

I wonder why Airbus used wing fences on the A380, which is a much newer design, when they are now changing from wing fences to winglets on the babybus.. are they admitting then, that wingfences are not so efficient, and will we see this change coming to the A380 as well or will the plane become too wide?
I would guess the A380 would get a bigger advantage using winglets since it is used on longer routes.
 
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:50 pm

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 28):
I wonder why Airbus used wing fences on the A380

Wing size. To remain inside the 80m ground box, it had to be wingtip fences.
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:51 pm

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 28):
will we see this change coming to the A380 as well or will the plane become too wide?

An A380 with winglets would be a beautiful bird! I suppose they would be quite large in comparison to the aircraft (like the 767 winglets).
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:53 pm

Quoting francoflier (Reply 22):
It doesn't look too bad,

Compared to the 737 you are right, because the A320 has more clearance and not so pointy nose (the 737 isn't mama's beauty anyway, especially in Southwest outfit yuk). But the sharklet's on the JetBlue are way better! Jee I like this thread. Not A vs B or this is better than that but pure taste. So nobody is absolute wrong or right (although I am pretty sure about my opinion.. 
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:01 pm

Quoting Glareskin (Reply 31):
Compared to the 737 you are right, because the A320 has more clearance and not so pointy nose (the 737 isn't mama's beauty anyway, especially in Southwest outfit yuk). But the sharklet's on the JetBlue are way better!

Not sure how a bulbous nose is any less homely than cone nose. Neither is all that sexy. Now, Concorde had a sexy nose, at least when retracted.
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AirPacific747
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:01 pm

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 29):
Wing size. To remain inside the 80m ground box, it had to be wingtip fences.

I wonder what it would do to the flight performance if they shortened the wing a bit to make room for real winglets.. would be interesting to ask some Airbus engineers about this.

Quoting cipango (Reply 30):
An A380 with winglets would be a beautiful bird! I suppose they would be quite large in comparison to the aircraft (like the 767 winglets).

I agree.. I would love to see an A380 with winglets! And then on an A380-900  
 
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:27 pm

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 33):
I wonder what it would do to the flight performance if they shortened the wing a bit to make room for real winglets.

I'd imagine it would need a tad more thrust. Six engines anyone?  

Field performance probably wouldn't be too great either. I'd imagine that performance overall would take quite a hit, but I'm not an engineer, I'm probably completely incorrect.

I believe I read that ideally the A380's wing would have been even longer than it currently is, if there wasn't the 80m restriction.

[Edited 2011-11-22 12:29:25]
 
rjm777ual
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:29 pm

I hope United orders some!! is there a time frame for the first delivery yet?
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kamboi
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:45 pm

Winglets on 744 and A330 & A340 are the best looking. Blended wings looks awful as you can see the pointed end from the other side of the plane.
 
gytr31
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:55 pm

Quoting bonusonus (Reply 14):
Anyone know what the EIS of the first sharkletted A320 is?

With the launch customer Air New Zealand in Q4 2012 was the original plan...

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ugWk-rnkqXM/SwGkkGE5GRI/AAAAAAAAF2w/cokO3r0awb4/s1600/A320-SHARKLET_ANZ_IAE_V05_HD.jpg

Looks not too bad!  
 
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:16 pm

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 32):

Not sure how a bulbous nose is any less homely than cone nose. Neither is all that sexy.

I don't say that the A320 nose is a lot better but since the plane is more 'bullish' in total it is not as bad looking with the sharklets.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 32):
Now, Concorde had a sexy nose, at least when retracted.

  

Quoting cipango (Reply 30):

An A380 with winglets would be a beautiful bird! I suppose they would be quite large in comparison to the aircraft (like the 767 winglets).

That would be too big! By the way, I think with modern wing design there is no need for wing extensions. What about the A380 fences? Probably to make it look like a normal bus, like the A320...
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:17 pm

Quoting airproxx (Reply 17):
Hahaha! I remember, when Boeing launched with API the wingleted 737, Airbus relatives saying "yeah, We do not need any 'fast and furious' styled winglets on our planes, the A320 wing is just perfect...."
And now, some years later... This! The Airbus' "Sharklets"....
Ridiculous, really!

That perfect Airbus wing didn't need winglets like the Boeing, as so many Anetters claimed. Hilarious, really. These winglets look good on the Airbus. Now looking at United 757 wings without winglets, it makes them look behind the times

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 32):
Not sure how a bulbous nose is any less homely than cone nose. Neither is all that sexy. Now, Concorde had a sexy nose, at least when retracted.

How about airplane foreheads ? There is one that has a ugly forehead out there.
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AirPacific747
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:34 pm

Quoting U2380 (Reply 34):
I'd imagine it would need a tad more thrust. Six engines anyone?

Just cancel the A380 programme and restart the AN-225 programme and convert it to a passenger plane 
 
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:52 pm

Quoting gytr31 (Reply 37):
Looks not too bad!  

Looks very good imho.  .

Quoting bj87 (Reply 3):
"Sharklets, which replace the A320's wing fences, will reduce fuel-burn on the type by up to 3.5% on longer sectors of around 3,000nm (5,560km), Airbus claims.

The airframer also expects the sharklets - each of which is 2.5m (8.2ft) tall - to improve take-off performance by up to 3t."

I knew about the fuel saving (on the longer routes). But I am quite surprised that the take-off performance is gaining this much.  .
 
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:10 pm

Quoting bj87 (Reply 3):

"Sharklets, which replace the A320's wing fences, will reduce fuel-burn on the type by up to 3.5% on longer sectors of around 3,000nm (5,560km), Airbus claims.

But I am afraid the majority of the routes flown by A32S worldwide are far, far below that distance.
Furthermore I am interested to learn if that three tonnes are added to the max payload, or MTOW. Because I suppose adding the winglets and reinforcing the structure of the wing will do something to the OEW of the aircraft..

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 19):
...is a far cry from the prototypes that gave it the name "Sharklet":

Just like the original vertical stabilizer that Boeing designed for the 7E7, which was thrown out of the window during the designing process. 
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:56 pm

I heard QR's last 3 or 4 A320s will be fitted with shark lets. This will help its flights to Europe and Africa.
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Eagleboy
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:21 pm

Quoting timpdx (Reply 13):
Its going to make it harder to distinguish 737s from A320s from a distance now.

Really?
 
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:18 am

Quoting CALTECH (Reply 39):
How about airplane foreheads ? There is one that has a ugly forehead out there.

A380 and 777 both. A380 just looks wrong, and the 777 looks funky because the 767 nose is grafted on the larger diameter 777 fuse.
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nz2
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:01 am

Quoting Glareskin (Reply 31):
Compared to the 737 you are right, because the A320 has more clearance and not so pointy nose (the 737 isn't mama's beauty anyway, especially in Southwest outfit yuk). But the sharklet's on the JetBlue are way better! Jee I like this thread.

At least the 737 looks like a proper Airliner, cant beat that classic look from the 60's. The A320 is a goofy looking thing that looks like a plastic bulbous kids toy, all out of proportion with tiny engines, lanky gear and a dumbo nose.....
 
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CALTECH
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:55 am

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 45):
A380 and 777 both. A380 just looks wrong, and the 777 looks funky because the 767 nose is grafted on the larger diameter 777 fuse.

Hey, the 777 is just a fat 767. And its forehead was getting big. But that A-380, just can't get over that forehead, love the wings and engines on it though. Will be good to see A-320 family with winglets, took Airbus long enough. The airplanes at United without winglets just look so simple and obsolete.
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:00 am

Quoting bonusonus (Reply 14):
My favorite winglets are definitely the ones on the 767-300ER. Those things are freaking huge!

If you're in the area, go by the front door of the Museum Of Flight in Seattle...they've got a blended winglet prototype for a 747 out front. "Freaking huge" doesn't even begin to describe it.

Quoting my235 (Reply 18):
3.5% doesn't sound all that much though.

Most engine engineers would gladly sell several generations of their family (past and future) into servitude to get even half that improvement.

Quoting Glareskin (Reply 38):
I think with modern wing design there is no need for wing extensions.

If that were true, you wouldn't see tip extensions on the 787 and A350. Wings always get better (aerodynamically) with increased aspect ratio. No aircraft *needs* wing extensions but, all other things being equal, the wing with extensions has less induced drag than the one without.

Tom.
 
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RE: Airbus Rolls Out First A320 With Sharklets

Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:26 am

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 26):
True, but the 737NG definitely got more "bang for the buck.". The Boeing requires 150kg of reinforcement at the tip. The Airbus requires over 1000kg worth of strengthening throughout the wing to get the same result. That's why older 737NG's are retrofittable. A32X's are not.

Which begs the question of how much wing strengthening will the Neo need with larger, heavier engines and the option of sharklets? Sounds like it could potentially add a fair bit of weight.

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