smoot4208
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US To Add 2nd CLT-FRA Flight

Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:24 am

US last Saturday loaded a 2nd CLT-FRA flight starting May 24th. Also this flight as of now does not appear seasonal. As of now it is loaded all the way through 10/22, which is the farthest day out you can book on US. US had loaded this flight for last summer, but withdrew soon after it was loaded because they did not get decent slots. Now with the new runway open, US was able to get some good times. This flight should do well. Now if US can just secure some decent slot times at GRU, they'll be set
 
USAirALB
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RE: US To Add 2nd CLT-FRA Flight

Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:36 am

Nice to see it finally in the works. I think part of the problem last year was they waited until December to add the second flight. I'm sure it will be seasonal, as PHL-FRA is also seasonal. It will probably end late October.

GRU is coming.
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LOWS
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RE: US To Add 2nd CLT-FRA Flight

Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:01 am

Quoting smoot4208 (Thread starter):
US last Saturday loaded a 2nd CLT-FRA flight starting May 24th. Also this flight as of now does not appear seasonal. As of now it is loaded all the way through 10/22, which is the farthest day out you can book on US. US had loaded this flight for last summer, but withdrew soon after it was loaded because they did not get decent slots. Now with the new runway open, US was able to get some good times. This flight should do well. Now if US can just secure some decent slot times at GRU, they'll be set

Glad to see it, and I'm glad to see US strengthen their connection to *A.
 
USAirALB
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RE: US To Add 2nd CLT-FRA Flight

Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:11 am

Times look great, especially for those connecting from the Caribbean and Latin America. I would have thought this flight would have used an B767, but alas its an A332.

CLT TATL Schedule S12:

FRA: 1X A333, 1X A332
LGW: 1X A333
CDG: 1X A332
FCO: 1X A333
MAD: 1X B767
DUB: 1X B757
MUC: 1X A346 (operated by Lufthansa)

Not to shabby if you ask me. Concourse D is looking really tight during the evening/afternoon hours. However, the DUB flight usually departs from Concourse B, and MAD sometimes does as well.
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migair54
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RE: US To Add 2nd CLT-FRA Flight

Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:06 am

how are they doing in MAD?

When they opened that flight many people said that it was going to last not very long... but it seems like now is well stablish flight...
 
DALelite
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RE: US To Add 2nd CLT-FRA Flight

Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:47 am

Didn't LH also offer FRA-CLT on a A-340?

cheers: DALelite
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PITrules
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RE: US To Add 2nd CLT-FRA Flight

Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:20 am

Quoting DALelite (Reply 5):
Didn't LH also offer FRA-CLT on a A-340?

That was with a 742 which continued on to IAH or DFW about 20 years ago. It lasted a couple years
FLYi
 
Ferminios
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RE: US To Add 2nd CLT-FRA Flight

Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:33 am

US operates CLT-FRA, LH operates CLT-MUC  
 
ba319-131
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RE: US To Add 2nd CLT-FRA Flight

Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:25 pm

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 3):
I would have thought this flight would have used an B767, but alas its an A332.

- Why alas? - the 332 interior is much nicer than the 762 fleet.
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tripple7
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RE: US To Add 2nd CLT-FRA Flight

Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:56 pm

Any chance that US might add a CLT-AMS or BRU flight? Seems that it can sustain FCO and MAD flights, so could AMS or BRU be a realistic option and would it be in reach of the 7575? Is there any market between CLT and the BeNeLux?
 
thegman
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RE: US To Add 2nd CLT-FRA Flight

Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:56 pm

Quoting tripple7 (Reply 9):

Any chance that US might add a CLT-AMS or BRU flight? Seems that it can sustain FCO and MAD flights, so could AMS or BRU be a realistic option and would it be in reach of the 7575? Is there any market between CLT and the BeNeLux?

Not a chance. AMS out of PHL is down to 752. At least with SpanAir there are decent connection options available through Star. No such thing at AMS.
 
330lover
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RE: US To Add 2nd CLT-FRA Flight

Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:25 pm

Quoting thegman (Reply 10):
Quoting tripple7 (Reply 9):

Any chance that US might add a CLT-AMS or BRU flight? Seems that it can sustain FCO and MAD flights, so could AMS or BRU be a realistic option and would it be in reach of the 7575? Is there any market between CLT and the BeNeLux?

Not a chance. AMS out of PHL is down to 752. At least with SpanAir there are decent connection options available through Star. No such thing at AMS.

Agreed, AMS is not a big Star airport.
BRU though could be a good bet. Good feeding possibilities on SN within *A. Don't know if it's doable on 757 though.
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flylku
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RE: US To Add 2nd CLT-FRA Flight

Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:20 pm

Quoting smoot4208 (Thread starter):
Now if US can just secure some decent slot times at GRU, they'll be set

Are you suggesting that there is a relationship between FRA-CLT and CLT-GRU are does "they'll be set" mean that their route structure will be more complete?
...are we there yet?
 
USAirALB
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RE: US To Add 2nd CLT-FRA Flight

Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:24 pm

Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 8):

I shouldn't have said alas. I was implying that because US scheduled the B767 to fly the second daily CLT-FRA last year, I would have thought they would have used that plane as well.

Quoting 330lover (Reply 11):

US struggles on PHL-AMS...CLT-AMS would not have a chance. IMHO, CLT-MAN would be the next logical TATL route from CLT.

Quoting flylku (Reply 12):

I think he meant something on the lines of "Once GRU is added, US will have a nice INTL hub out of CLT".
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flyguy89
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RE: US To Add 2nd CLT-FRA Flight

Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:45 pm

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 13):
CLT-MAN would be the next logical TATL route from CLT.

I have to say I would be very surprised if US added MAN from CLT. The MAN-USA market is actually pretty small and everyone is saying even the recently added IAD-MAN route is going to be a struggle. US does very well on PHL-MAN because of huge pharmaceutical and business connections between the two cities...and I believe it's the only wide-bodied MAN TATL flight, not even ORD can do more than a 757 on the route.
 
USAirALB
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RE: US To Add 2nd CLT-FRA Flight

Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:03 pm

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 14):

Wow, I never knew that about MAN. I always thought that US used an A333 because cargo made the route. I was just thinking MAN because it's probably the only EU destination left in range of the B757.

I could maybe see CLT-ZRH, but I'm just extremely happy about the second daily FRA flight.
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Humberside
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RE: US To Add 2nd CLT-FRA Flight

Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:26 pm

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 14):
everyone is saying even the recently added IAD-MAN route is going to be a struggle

It's not even a capacity increase though (in the summer), just a moved EWR frequency

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 14):
I believe it's the only wide-bodied MAN TATL flight

MAN-ATL/MCO/SFB/LAS as well (Granted MCO/SFB/LAS aren't 'hub' flights, but ATL is). Plus PIA may still be stopping some JFK flights at MAN
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usairways85
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RE: US To Add 2nd CLT-FRA Flight

Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:32 pm

Anyone know where the A332 is coming from? I thought they had their A332's pretty heavily utilized.

Any additional widebody service between PHL-CLT with the additional CLT TA service?
 
wn676
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RE: US To Add 2nd CLT-FRA Flight

Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:52 pm

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 17):
Anyone know where the A332 is coming from? I thought they had their A332's pretty heavily utilized.

The TATL schedule they have right now requires 8 A332s, and they only have 7, so there will be a few more equipment changes before the final is released. They also have 8 A333s scheduled, so if they swap one with an A332, they'll be stretched to the max for both of those fleets (9 333s and 7 332s with no spares). LHR and MUC are showing right now as operating with A333s, so the extra aircraft is probably going to come from one of those cities.
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USAirALB
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RE: US To Add 2nd CLT-FRA Flight

Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:58 pm

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 17):

According to the schedule, I see the following domestic widebody routes:

PHL-CLT (B767)


Their widebody aircraft will be so utilized next summer-they don't even seem to be operating a second daily PHL-CLT on a B767.
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caleb1
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RE: US To Add 2nd CLT-FRA Flight

Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:11 pm

Just what we need...more mediocre service across the Atlantic.
 
USAirALB
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RE: US To Add 2nd CLT-FRA Flight

Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:44 pm

Quoting caleb1 (Reply 20):

I'm assuming you haven't flown on one of their new A332s.
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caleb1
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RE: US To Add 2nd CLT-FRA Flight

Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:03 pm

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 21):
I'm assuming you haven't flown on one of their new A332s.

You are correct. I have not flown US Airways' A332. I am sure they are a nice ride, but I was referring to the inflight experience in general...seat comfort, meals, IFE, F/As, etc. The few times I have flown US, they weren't spectacular and in fact, I was rather disappointed with them. Perhaps I should give them another try.
 
smoot4208
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RE: US To Add 2nd CLT-FRA Flight

Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:10 pm

Right now the schedule is not correct in my opinion. If you look at both CLT/PHL-FRA, there is no way that their can be 2 A332 flights. As it is loaded now, the first 332 flight out of FRA to CLT is listed as a 332, but no 332 at that time would have even landed at FRA.

I believe they will end up fixing that error and it will be loaded as a 767
 
vlad1971
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RE: US To Add 2nd CLT-FRA Flight

Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:18 pm

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 13):
US struggles on PHL-AMS...CLT-AMS would not have a chance. IMHO, CLT-MAN would be the next logical TATL route from CLT.

According to Tatl charts AMS has one of the highest load factors on all European flights . Aircraft was downgraded to B757 as it could make it from PHL . There are rumours that it will go back to B767 next winter . Envoy class is always full on AMS flight and coach class as well . They just do not have a spare 767 for this route at the moment . Hopefully after new A332's will join the fleet AMS will get bigger plane out of PHL . Schiphol airport management would like to have a direct link with CLT and they were already 2 times in CLT to discuss this proposal but US said at the moment they do not have an aircraft to operate the route . I am sure if 767 which was used on AMS flight was not removed to operate GIG flights 2 years ago it would stay on the route till now .....
 
at777
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RE: US To Add 2nd CLT-FRA Flight

Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:12 am

Quoting vlad1971 (Reply 24):
Schiphol airport management would like to have a direct link with CLT and they were already 2 times in CLT to discuss this proposal but US said at the moment they do not have an aircraft to operate the route .

If AMS management would like to have a direct link to CLT, why can't they get KLM to start the route?
Just curious to hear why they wouldn't or couldn't. I would just assume if there is a demand why someone hasn't started it yet. Thoughts?
I would love to see KLM colors here in CLT! (I know it won't happen)

Ashley in CLT
 
USAirALB
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RE: US To Add 2nd CLT-FRA Flight

Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:34 am

Quoting AT777 (Reply 25):

Exactly, which shows there is little demand for CLT-AMS. If there was that much demand, they would have started CLT-AMS instead of CLT-MAD.
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smoot4208
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RE: US To Add 2nd CLT-FRA Flight

Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:14 am

Quoting vlad1971 (Reply 24):
Schiphol airport management would like to have a direct link with CLT and they were already 2 times in CLT to discuss this proposal but US said at the moment they do not have an aircraft to operate the route .

Perhaps if AMS would've been in the 75W range, they could've started CLT-AMS. However since it would require a wide body, I don't think you'll ever see the route. At least not in the next 5 years.
 
usflyer msp
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RE: US To Add 2nd CLT-FRA Flight

Fri Nov 25, 2011 3:24 am

Quoting vlad1971 (Reply 24):
According to Tatl charts AMS has one of the highest load factors on all European flights . Aircraft was downgraded to B757 as it could make it from PHL . There are rumours that it will go back to B767 next winter . Envoy class is always full on AMS flight and coach class as well . They just do not have a spare 767 for this route at the moment . Hopefully after new A332's will join the fleet AMS will get bigger plane out of PHL . Schiphol airport management would like to have a direct link with CLT and they were already 2 times in CLT to discuss this proposal but US said at the moment they do not have an aircraft to operate the route . I am sure if 767 which was used on AMS flight was not removed to operate GIG flights 2 years ago it would stay on the route till now .....

AMS has historically been one of the poorer-performing TATL routes for US. Adding capacity from CLT would only make one of their lowest yielding European destinations even more lower yielding.
 
MAH4546
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RE: US To Add 2nd CLT-FRA Flight

Fri Nov 25, 2011 3:30 am

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 26):

Quoting AT777 (Reply 25):

Exactly, which shows there is little demand for CLT-AMS. If there was that much demand, they would have started CLT-AMS instead of CLT-MAD.


There is no demand for CLTMAD, either. But it's easy to fill with connections.
a.
 
USAirALB
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RE: US To Add 2nd CLT-FRA Flight

Fri Nov 25, 2011 3:50 am

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 29):


There is no demand for CLTMAD, either. But it's easy to fill with connections

Doesn't CLT-MAD have the lowest PDEW for any nonstop TATL flight?

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 27):
Perhaps if AMS would've been in the 75W range, they could've started CLT-AMS

US could probably fly CLT-AMS with a 75W. DL did CVG-AMS, and that's 4142 mi, just 43 miles shorter, and NW did DTW-FRA, which is 4161, just 24 miles shorter. CLT-AMS is 4185. I doubt range was an issue.

I think its because it would have made the already low yields on PHL-AMS(I think it US's worse performing route) go down the toliet.
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flyguy89
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RE: US To Add 2nd CLT-FRA Flight

Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:29 am

Quoting Humberside (Reply 16):

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 14):
I believe it's the only wide-bodied MAN TATL flight

MAN-ATL/MCO/SFB/LAS as well (Granted MCO/SFB/LAS aren't 'hub' flights, but ATL is). Plus PIA may still be stopping some JFK flights at MAN

Ah yes, how could I forget about Virgin's operations at MAN! I suppose I was mainly looking at the US side of the equation, most of Virgin's flights are to high-density leisure destinations. I'm not trying to knock MAN here, I'm just saying the market between MAN and USA is pretty small and currently well-served.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 15):
Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 14):

Wow, I never knew that about MAN. I always thought that US used an A333 because cargo made the route. I was just thinking MAN because it's probably the only EU destination left in range of the B757.

I could maybe see CLT-ZRH, but I'm just extremely happy about the second daily FRA flight.

Cargo is probably a solid component in their success on PHL-MAN, but again probably due to the business ties between the two cities. If US did add another TATL flight out of CLT I could see ZRH or BRU before MAN, but I honestly think CLT is about as tapped as it's ever going to be for TATL flights. ZRH would even be a stretch unless there is decent traffic between CLT and Switzerland which I don't believe there are--- ZRH would also offer the same connecting traffic flow as FRA making it kind of redundant.
 
brandonfsu05
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RE: US To Add 2nd CLT-FRA Flight

Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:04 am

I think the most profitable means of expanding from CLT to Europe now would be adjustment of frequencies... Maybe they will add another summer LGW flight. Obviously they've come to the conclusion that a second CLT-FRA is more money than a CLT-BCN or a CLT-ZRH etc....

I wonder why US doesn't try to fly at least a summer seasonal flight between CLT-MUC... Yes, Lufthansa is on the route, but they aren't in the JV so they are competing anyways... I bet US Airways could poach a few business pax from the route...

Other than that I think US is going to be focusing on Central America/South America from CLT. As the hub, city and fleet grow they might revisit more opportunities to Europe from CLT.

CLT has come a long way from the beginning of the new millenium. There was no MEX, MUC, MAD, FCO, DUB, GIG, and CDG had been suspended...there was FRA....LGW...a Montego Bay flight...a Cancun flight...Grand Cayman and that's pretty much it. On peak Saturdays we now have around 30-34 arrivals...That doesn't include pre cleared destinations such as STT, AUA, YUL, etc.... Sure, the dismantling of the PIT hub had a lot to do with the changes as flights moved to CLT.... BUT...this is pretty exceptional for a 2nd tier city in the US without much tourism pull...

[Edited 2011-11-25 00:17:41]
 
USAirALB
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RE: US To Add 2nd CLT-FRA Flight

Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:14 am

Quoting brandonfsu05 (Reply 32):
I think the most profitable means of expanding from CLT to Europe now would be adjustment of frequencies

Agreed, although I do think there is room for one more European destination, time will tell what that destination will be.

Quoting brandonfsu05 (Reply 32):
I bet US Airways could poach a few business pax from the route...

I think pax flying CLT-MUC in J/F would rather fly LH than US..

Quoting brandonfsu05 (Reply 32):
Other than that I think US is going to be focusing on Central America/South America from CLT. As the hub, city and fleet grow they might revisit more opportunities to Europe from CLT.

Agreed. I'm still waiting on the delayed GRU. LIM would be nice as well.

Quoting brandonfsu05 (Reply 32):
CLT has come a long way from the beginning of the new millenium. There was no MEX, MUC, MAD, FCO, DUB, GIG, and CDG had been suspended...there was FRA....LGW...a Montego Bay flight...a Cancun flight...Grand Cayman and that's pretty much it. On peak Saturdays we now have around 30-34 arrivals...That doesn't include pre cleared destinations such as STT, AUA, YUL, etc.... Sure, the dismantling of the PIT hub had a lot to do with the changes as flights moved to CLT.... BUT...this is pretty exceptional for a 2nd tier city in the US without much tourism pull...

Very well said. I can't believe how CLT has changed in the last 10 years. Looking forward to the next 10! Kinda random, but I can only think of a couple international destinations US failed on from CLT: PVR (IMHO, too far and expensive for the average east coast traveler) and LRM (I don't know what the heck US was thinking there. MIA doesn't even have year round mainline to LRM), KIN, GUA, and GGT. I believe GUA will be back though.

[Edited 2011-11-26 00:22:40]
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FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: US To Add 2nd CLT-FRA Flight

Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:19 am

Quoting 330lover (Reply 11):
Agreed, AMS is not a big Star airport.

Not a big *A airport? It's the exact opposite! LOL HUGE SkyTeam airport.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 14):
I have to say I would be very surprised if US added MAN from CLT. The MAN-USA market is actually pretty small and everyone is saying even the recently added IAD-MAN route is going to be a struggle. US does very well on PHL-MAN because of huge pharmaceutical and business connections between the two cities...and I believe it's the only wide-bodied MAN TATL flight, not even ORD can do more than a 757 on the route.

Huh? ATL-MAN
What gets measured gets done.
 
brandonfsu05
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RE: US To Add 2nd CLT-FRA Flight

Sat Nov 26, 2011 3:25 pm

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 33):
I think pax flying CLT-MUC in J/F would rather fly LH than US..

Lol sure of course but some people's company's might make them choose the cheapest on the route...and I mean US Airways doesn't have many premium seats... on 767 if they ran it with that...if they ran it with a 332.... if i were flying it i would rather fly envoy suite than sitting on J/F on Lufthansa

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 33):
Very well said. I can't believe how CLT has changed in the last 10 years. Looking forward to the next 10! Kinda random, but I can only think of a couple international destinations US failed on from CLT: PVR (IMHO, too far and expensive for the average east coast traveler) and LRM (I don't know what the heck US was thinking there. MIA doesn't even have year round mainline to LRM), KIN, GUA, and GGT. I believe GUA will be back though.

PVR just didn't seem popular with anyone except gay couples... (Seriously) I always knew PVR was in passport control because it always had a lot of gay people on that flight...someone told me there was some resort down there...i guess it wasn't enough to keep it around Lol...

I think GUA will be back possibly too...it's just every day there were numerous deportations alone off that flight...people smuggling drugs in tow bars...it was a very problematic flight...shortly after US discontinued it the Guatemala government put a halt to those baby adoptions...id say every day half the plane was baby adoptions and the other half guatemalans coming to buy used cars and tow them back to Guatemala in convoy to sale lol...

i expect to see more central america and upper south america when avianca/taca and copa join star alliance officially...
 
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shamrock604
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RE: US To Add 2nd CLT-FRA Flight

Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:07 pm

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 14):
The MAN-USA market is actually pretty small and everyone is saying even the recently added IAD-MAN route is going to be a struggle

The MAN - USA market is certainly not small and the IAD-MAN flight will not struggle one bit. IAD-MAN replaces one of the daily EWR-MAN CO flights, and will be filled with connecting traffic. This will in turn boost yields on MAN-EWR.

If anything, MAN-USA is underserved.
 
flyguy89
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RE: US To Add 2nd CLT-FRA Flight

Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:45 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 34):

Huh? ATL-MAN

Already corrected above.

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 36):
Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 14):
The MAN-USA market is actually pretty small and everyone is saying even the recently added IAD-MAN route is going to be a struggle

The MAN - USA market is certainly not small and the IAD-MAN flight will not struggle one bit. IAD-MAN replaces one of the daily EWR-MAN CO flights, and will be filled with connecting traffic. This will in turn boost yields on MAN-EWR.

If anything, MAN-USA is underserved.

Strongly disagree. MAN-USA is a comparatively small market that is well served to most major East Coast hubs. MAN is also 'blessed' so-to-speak in that it's within 757 range of the US. IAD-MAN won't struggle load-wise, but because as you say it will be filled with connecting traffic, yields will probably not be good.