flyingturtle
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Ten Years Ago - Crossair Flight 3597

Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:52 pm

Hello fellow A.netters,

ten years ago, Crossair flight 3597 TXL - ZRH, operated with a Avro RJ100 Jumbolino, crashed while approaching Zurich. In the relatively small country Switzerland is, every airliner crash leaves a mark in my memory. Alitalia flight 404 comes to my mind, then Crossair flight 498 in 2000 and most recently the infamous Überlingen mid-air collision in 2002. With the exception of the AZ 404 flight, all happened during approach to ZRH.

In 2001, soon after 9/11, Swissair collapsed. Crossair, the regional airline and child of ex-Swissair captain Moritz Suter, was slated to take over its parent company and rename itself to Swiss. Confusion and uncertainty in Crossair personnel was thought to be a contributing factor in this crash.

After 9/11, the Swissair collapse, the fire in the Gotthard road tunnel (October 2001, eleven deaths) and the LX 3597 crash, our president helplessly asked during the prime-time TV news: "When will it end?"


FlyingTurtle
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
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American 767
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RE: Ten Years Ago - Crossair Flight 3597

Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:58 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Thread starter):
With the exception of the AZ 404 flight, all happened during approach to ZRH

You mean with the exception of the mid air collision between a B757 and a TU-154 in 2002. Because AZ 404, a DC-9,. also crashed while on approach to ZRH

Quoting flyingturtle (Thread starter):
In 2001, soon after 9/11, Swissair collapsed. Crossair, the regional airline and child of ex-Swissair captain Moritz Suter, was slated to take over its parent company and rename itself to Swiss.

There was a movie in French on TV5 a few weeks ago about the Swissair collapse.

Regarding the Crossair 3597 crash, 9 passengers survived. May the 24 people, passengers and crew, rest in peace.
Ben Soriano
 
Independence76
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RE: Ten Years Ago - Crossair Flight 3597

Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:14 am

As a collector of European electronic music, it's a shame to know that an excellent vocalist for the group La Bouche (Melanie Thornton) was killed in the crash, however her mixing assistant survived.

The pop group "Passion Fruit" also had 2 of their 3 members die in the accident - however I am not so familiar with them.

A Mayday/Air Crash Investigation episode was made a few months ago, showing and explaining the accident:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7bKMH4-4QM

May all who perished RIP.
 
N960AS
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RE: Ten Years Ago - Crossair Flight 3597

Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:35 am

 
klwright69
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RE: Ten Years Ago - Crossair Flight 3597

Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:20 am

Yes, I just heard about that accident for the first time when browsing through episodes of Mayday. I watched the episode. It is a very good episode and an interesting accident worth learning about.

Any accident is a sad event. Especially this one, where they said the captain was known to have some skill deficits. Thank god there were survivors.

I recall one of the survivors interviewed said he and his wife changed seats to further back because the music group was partying on the plane and they wanted to sleep. This move saved the couple. Pretty sad stuff.
 
flyingturtle
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RE: Ten Years Ago - Crossair Flight 3597

Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:53 am

Quoting American 767 (Reply 1):
You mean with the exception of the mid air collision between a B757 and a TU-154 in 2002.

My bad. Got something mixed up in my head.   

Quoting Independence76 (Reply 2):
May all who perished RIP.

I hope so. Needless deaths.

A passenger, Jacqueline Badran, was later elected as a member of the national assembly.

Somehow, all Swiss (not the airline) crashes have something special on their face.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swissair_Flight_306 - pilots decide to taxi down the runway, and return to the take-off point with hot brakes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swissair_Flight_330 was destroyed by a bomb on its way to Tel Aviv.

The SR 111 accident off halifax. And then the two Air India crashes on the same Glacier des Bossons near Mont Blanc, France while approaching GVA. A Super Constellation in 1950 and a 707 in 1966.
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
rheinwaldner
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RE: Ten Years Ago - Crossair Flight 3597

Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:53 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 5):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swissair_Flight_306 - pilots decide to taxi down the runway, and return to the take-off point with hot brakes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swissair_Flight_330 was destroyed by a bomb on its way to Tel Aviv.

The SR 111 accident off halifax. And then the two Air India crashes on the same Glacier des Bossons near Mont Blanc, France while approaching GVA. A Super Constellation in 1950 and a 707 in 1966.

Three times a fire on board. Weird. IIRC these are all the Swissair Jet crashes (except DC-8 in Athens).
 
Viscount724
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RE: Ten Years Ago - Crossair Flight 3597

Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:22 am

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 5):
And then the two Air India crashes on the same Glacier des Bossons near Mont Blanc, France while approaching GVA. A Super Constellation in 1950 and a 707 in 1966.

The first AI crash on Mont Blanc wasn't a Super Constellation which didn't exist in 1950. It was a standard L-749 Constellation.
 
flyingturtle
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RE: Ten Years Ago - Crossair Flight 3597

Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:56 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 7):

Thank you - I'll correct the Wikipedia articles...  

As a side note concerning LX 3597: In one of the interviews, a survivor told journalists that she processed the crash by diving into aircraft technology and physics of flight. A very clever way, if you ask me.  
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
saab2000
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RE: Ten Years Ago - Crossair Flight 3597

Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:46 pm

I was flying that day in ZRH and knew the captain of the flight and saw him earlier in the day. It was a bad day at work, to say the least. We landed about 5 to 10 minutes before the crash took place. The crash had one positive outcome, the installation of an ILS to 28 in ZRH. It was years overdue and I hope the folks who opposed it think about the dead people every day as an ILS on 28 years earlier would likely have prevented the accident from happening. The politics of noise at the ZRH airport definitely put safety in the back seat and the result was a tragic accident.

The other good thing about the accident (if there is such a thing) is that it caused a lot of introspection on the safety culture at Crossair, which was probably lacking in some ways.

Other than those things, which are the result of many accidents, there is never a positive outcome of a tragic accident. I remember that day very well.

As to the other events surrounding Crossair, Swissair and the formation of SWISS (and my subsequent loss of a good job), well, I'll leave my opinion to myself......

The accident did force the aviation community in Switzerland to take a close look at itself and make some changes. I think most of those changes were necessary and have resulted in a safer culture at LX. I no longer fly in Switzerland but I carry the lessons I learned there with me every day in my career in the US.
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FlySSC
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RE: Ten Years Ago - Crossair Flight 3597

Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:13 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 7):
The first AI crash on Mont Blanc wasn't a Super Constellation which didn't exist in 1950. It was a standard L-749 Constellation.

Correct. The "Malabar Princess", still very famous in the region so many years after ...
 
Btblue
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RE: Ten Years Ago - Crossair Flight 3597

Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:36 pm

Kind of on topic... but not Swiss (airline) but an accident in Switzerland. An Invicta International Airlines Vickers Vanguard crashed while on approach to Basle fron Bristol UK in 1973. Killing 108 on board with 37 survivors. The majority of those onboard were women travelling as part of a ladies guild trip - resulting deaths left 55 children motherless.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invicta_International_Airlines_Flight_435

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19730410-1

Quoting Independence76 (Reply 2):
As a collector of European electronic music, it's a shame to know that an excellent vocalist for the group La Bouche (Melanie Thornton) was killed in the crash, however her mixing assistant survived.

I have her album... very good it is too.

[Edited 2011-11-28 08:00:25]

[Edited 2011-11-28 08:01:09]
146/2/3 737/2/3/4/5/7/8/9 A320 1/2/18/19/21 DC9/40/50 DC10/30 A300/6 A330/2/3 A340/3/6 A380 757/2/3 747/4 767/3/4 787 77
 
flyingturtle
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RE: Ten Years Ago - Crossair Flight 3597

Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:26 pm

Quoting btblue (Reply 11):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invicta_International_Airlines_Flight_435

Thank you - I had a very faint memory of this accident, having read about it in a newspaper some years ago. Now I need to visit that memorial soon, it's not very far from my home.

Regarding the Invicta Airlines crash there... I don't want to blame the pilots, but I got an instant headache just from looking at this: http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...l.png&filetimestamp=20090704075755

    
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