Jonathanxxxx
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Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:02 pm

Looks like Spirit keep the DFW expansion going! Just saw that they anounced on their twitter service from DFW to Atlanta, Boston, Orlando and New York. Thoughts?
EDIT: Here is the press release: http://marketing.spirit.com/traveldeals/air.php?s=775



[Edited 2011-11-29 15:14:31]
 
n471wn
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RE: Spirit Anounce Four New DFW Routes

Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:03 pm

In light of the Air tran pull out and AA difficulties, seems like a smart and strategic move
 
Squid
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:08 pm

This is a shot across AA's bow no doubt. Is it just a daily flight or multiple daily frequencies?
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:09 pm

Quoting n471wn (Reply 1):
In light of the Air tran pull out and AA difficulties, seems like a smart and strategic move

Yes indeed. Got to give NK credit - VERY smart moves on their part.
confidence is silent. insecurities are loud.
 
srbmod
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:29 pm

Not surprised by the ATL-DFW announcement at all, especially since I predicted it about two months ago in this thread:

ATL-DFW Capacity (by mech24 Sep 15 2011 in Civil Aviation)

NK seems to be creating some mini-hubs as of late. Hopefully their growth at DFW will be successful. I don't think the timing of this announcement was related to the AMR CH. 11 filing this morning and it's a coincidence that this announcement was on the same day (Don't most airlines announce new services on Tuesdays?).
 
point2point
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:31 pm

Quoting Squid (Reply 2):
This is a shot across AA's bow no doubt.
Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 3):
Got to give NK credit

.... and the ink probably isn't even dry on the BK filing papers yet......


 
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:32 pm

Quoting n471wn (Reply 1):
In light of the Air tran pull out and AA difficulties, seems like a smart and strategic move

Agreed. But who will hear about it today?
They should have waited a few days for the PR potential.

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
kingcavalier
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:34 pm

Quoting srbmod (Reply 4):
I don't think the timing of this announcement was related to the AMR CH. 11 filing this morning and it's a coincidence that this announcement was on the same day (Don't most airlines announce new services on Tuesdays?).

I think you're right. I was in DFW about a month ago and heard that NK was going to get up to around 30 flights a day in DFW. I was not surprised to see today's announcement.
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
 
SurfandSnow
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:35 pm

What a convenient time to announce DFW expansion!

ATL and MCO cover the loss of FL service. BOS and LGA will provide LCC competition on key business routes (although NK will probably just get leisure and VFR travelers).

What's next? DFW-LAX? More expansion from ORD? NK to MIA? More service to Latin America? It seems like NK could be poised to benefit from AA's bankruptcy much more than I thought...
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:40 pm

Quoting n471wn (Reply 1):
In light of the Air tran pull out and AA difficulties, seems like a smart and strategic move

I'm not so sure. NK has increased domestic departures by about 50% over the last two years, while Latin America has been pulled down by almost 20%, and almost of all of that is in AA's MIA neighborhood.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
atrude777
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:53 pm

The price of the fares sales out of DFW?

11 Dollars  

Alex
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avi8
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:01 am

Smooth move I must say. With the substantial wave of aircraft coming in next year, I assume these are just one of the few massive announcements. Does anyone know the schedules and frequencies?
avi8
 
santi319
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:31 am

They are promoting Chapter $11 Sale Fares LOL
 
PI4EVER
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:50 am

It will be more like $111 when you add in their new booking fee, and all the other fee crap they charge.
I recently priced NK for a TPA-FLL trip one-way against WN and DL/AA to MIA. WN's fare was $58. DL/AA to MIA was $89. NK offered a fare of $5 but after the booking fee, one carry-on bag fee for a roller board and a seat selection fee, their fare was $109.
A neighbor recently booked NK to CUN via FLL, but ended up paying more than $200 more for 4 tickets than if they had selected B6 or AA. Watch that bottom line "ready to purchase" amount folks! Do your homework and price out the total fees and services you want for the NK service to get the accurate amount you are to pay.
The trip to FLL? I rode WN.
watch what you want. you may get it.
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:46 am

Quoting point2point (Reply 5):
.... and the ink probably isn't even dry on the BK filing papers yet......

Red ink takes longer to dry.   

Quoting PI4EVER (Reply 13):

It will be more like $111 when you add in their new booking fee, and all the other fee crap they charge.
I recently priced NK for a TPA-FLL trip one-way against WN and DL/AA to MIA. WN's fare was $58. DL/AA to MIA was $89. NK offered a fare of $5 but after the booking fee, one carry-on bag fee for a roller board and a seat selection fee, their fare was $109.
A neighbor recently booked NK to CUN via FLL, but ended up paying more than $200 more for 4 tickets than if they had selected B6 or AA. Watch that bottom line "ready to purchase" amount folks! Do your homework and price out the total fees and services you want for the NK service to get the accurate amount you are to pay.
The trip to FLL? I rode WN.

I love the people that say " It may look like a $20 dollar fare but once you pay for a carry on, a seat up front, 2 bags, 2 cokes, a bag of combos, gas to the airport, a therapist to treat insanity of standing in such a crowded part of the FLL terminal etc etc.."

I think they're pretty clear about what type of airline they are. Their fare is for a ticket and only that. Outside of the booking fee and taxes, you can fly for that price. I agree you should do your home work. Shopping at kroger isn't the same as shopping at harris-teeter.
 
Coronado990
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:52 am

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 14):
Outside of the booking fee and taxes, you can fly for that price.

I understand their booking fee is waived if purchased at the airport. Is that true?
Uncle SAN at your service!
 
gizmonc
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:55 am

Trust me AA will protect that market and will most likely match fares or cut them to deal with Spriit. In the past AA has really dipped fares when other carriers moved in on DFW service. If you remembe Legend Airlines with those 56 seat DC9's out of Love Field. AA matched and filed a law suit against Legent. In the end Legend fell the the financial pressure and in 4 years they lost 44 million dollars.
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:55 am

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 15):
I understand their booking fee is waived if purchased at the airport. Is that true?


Indeed it is. Which I believe is what makes it legal for them to advertise the price.
 
Coronado990
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:36 am

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 17):
Indeed it is. Which I believe is what makes it legal for them to advertise the price.

Fine with me, if that case, as I always enjoy a trip the the airport. As long as you can still go online and print your boarding pass using this system. Or would that have to be done at the ticket counter on the day of travel and do they charge for that?

I guess the bottom line is...can you get away with just paying the fare incl taxes on NK and still make a day out of it without getting charged for anything extra? A backpack under the seat is still free right?
Uncle SAN at your service!
 
Boiler905
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:45 am

Smart move by NK? Appears so. Aside from ATL and MCO, FL also maintained decent capacity in LGA and BOS and could have connected passengers to those cities over ATL. Just as some of the ORD routes NK announced earlier this year, these are mostly business rather than leisure markets. Surprising considering NK's product offering isn't as business friendly as other carriers already serving these markets. Nothing says they can't try though. Is DFW the new DTW in NK's network?

However, I'd like to bring up another related topic in all of this: VX.

IMHO, VX cannot expect to keep growing solely out of SFO and LAX. Expanding their DFW service to JFK, IAD, ORD, and/or FLL seem like options that should be considered as their fleet grows in the future. The fact that NK beat VX to DFW expansion announcements may be a testament to which company is more aggressive with growth.

Assuming AA will exit bankruptcy with a much more competitive cost structure, LCCs should probably get as strong of a foothold as possible in DFW sooner rather than later.
Boiler Up
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:50 am

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 19):
Fine with me, if that case, as I always enjoy a trip the the airport. As long as you can still go online and print your boarding pass using this system. Or would that have to be done at the ticket counter on the day of travel and do they charge for that?

Can be done online for free, and at the airport for free ( for now )

Quoting Boiler905 (Reply 20):
IMHO, VX cannot expect to keep growing solely out of SFO and LAX. Expanding their DFW service to JFK, IAD, ORD, and/or FLL seem like options that should be considered as their fleet grows in the future. The fact that NK beat VX to DFW expansion announcements may be a testament to which company is more aggressive with growth.

I don't think VX and NK would be after the same traffic even if they flew the exact same route network. NK grows to expand profit... VX has seemingly unlimited funds.
 
Boiler905
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:01 am

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 21):
I don't think VX and NK would be after the same traffic even if they flew the exact same route network. NK grows to expand profit... VX has seemingly unlimited funds.

I don't disagree with that, NK's product is night-and-day different from VX. Even so, I expect VX to make schedule expansion announcements of their own in the near future (whether it be DFW, LAX, FLL or another overlapping AA market). That's just my prediction.
Boiler Up
 
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gdg9
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:11 am

Quoting Boiler905 (Reply 20):
Assuming AA will exit bankruptcy with a much more competitive cost structure, LCCs should probably get as strong of a foothold as possible in DFW sooner rather than later.

This is a great point. Get in there while AA may not be able to mount their typical defense of the DFW hub.
 
Squid
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:25 am

Well Spirit Airlines is not known for having class, so it's not surprising that they are announcing "They are begining a new CHAPTER in Dallas with their $11 sale." And they are saying there will be more routes to come. AA better dig in for a fight because I think Spirit has identified their new target. And with so many open gates at DFW, if AA doesn't really step up, they will have a serious problem on their hands with a competitor even more of a threat to them than Southwest or Virgin America before they know it.

[Edited 2011-11-29 19:26:12]

Fasten your seat belt everybody because things are about to get really bumpy and very interesting.


[Edited 2011-11-29 19:27:45]
 
AAIL86
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:31 am

Quoting Squid (Reply 23):
Well Spirit Airlines is not known for having class, so it's not surprising that they are announcing "They are begining a new CHAPTER in Dallas with their $11 sale."


NK is the absolute bottom of the proverbial barrel. Personally, I'd rather fly SU during the Soviet days. Whoever gives that airline money deserves exactly what they get. Of course, people fly them or they wouldn't be expanding, would they?
Next
 
RamblinMan
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:21 am

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 8):
More expansion from ORD?

Wouldn't bet against it. Of course, AA is not the only hub carrier here, so not quite as obvious a target as DFW. And they already have a hub in FLL so they compete heavily with AA in MIA already.

Quoting AAIL86 (Reply 24):
Whoever gives that airline money deserves exactly what they get.

Only the unreasonable among them would expect anything more. Sure, they suck, but there's a market for that, and they seem to do a good job catering to that market. Not sure why you would complain about that- don't like it, so don't do it.
 
AWACSooner
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:56 am

Quoting AAIL86 (Reply 24):
NK is the absolute bottom of the proverbial barrel. Personally, I'd rather fly SU during the Soviet days. Whoever gives that airline money deserves exactly what they get. Of course, people fly them or they wouldn't be expanding, would they?

I wouldn't go THAT low...but you're spot on. But they cater to that market...
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:55 pm

Read a quote from NK in this month's Airline Business. It said that they have identified 300 domestic routes on which they could stimulate demand, and thereby grow the total market, from their lower fares based on their lower costs. Will be good to see what else develops.

[Edited 2011-11-30 05:07:06]
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:46 pm

AA has a monopoly on a lot of the routes out of DFW.

I hate Spirits model, but I wish them much success. No airline should enjoy a fortress hub like AA at DFW for as long as they have!
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:52 pm

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 10):
The price of the fares sales out of DFW?

11 Dollars

Just did a dummy booking and found DFW-LGA-DFW very quickly for $43.40 return including taxes and charges. As I wouldn't take checked baggage and as my carry-on would fit beneath the seat...
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
richierich
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:31 pm

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 14):
Shopping at kroger isn't the same as shopping at harris-teeter.

Besides both being grocery stores, I have no idea what this comparison means but I'll take your word for it.

Quoting PI4EVER (Reply 13):
It will be more like $111 when you add in their new booking fee, and all the other fee crap they charge.
I recently priced NK for a TPA-FLL trip one-way against WN and DL/AA to MIA. WN's fare was $58. DL/AA to MIA was $89. NK offered a fare of $5 but after the booking fee, one carry-on bag fee for a roller board and a seat selection fee, their fare was $109.
A neighbor recently booked NK to CUN via FLL, but ended up paying more than $200 more for 4 tickets than if they had selected B6 or AA. Watch that bottom line "ready to purchase" amount folks! Do your homework and price out the total fees and services you want for the NK service to get the accurate amount you are to pay.
The trip to FLL? I rode WN.

Yeah, this is why I feel that NK's pricing borders on being a deceptive practice. I know, those that defend this model always say "buyer beware" and the like, but we all know that not every consumer does his or her homework before buying. Spirit preys on that. Moreover, competing airlines that are far less deceptive are penalized by not getting the sale because I'm sure NK steals a lot of business from people who think they are getting a bargain but are really paying more in the long run. Imagine if every company did business the way Spirit does, I'd be afraid to purchase anything!

I generally don't like government interference but there is a time and a place to level the playing field. I have said this for a long time but I feel that there needs to be a simple, consistent display of fares and prices, some sort of matrix, perhaps, that spells out what you get and how much extra the add-ons cost. Each airline should be required to use the same format. I'm not knocking the 'a la carte' model, just that I think Spirit is not as forthcoming with the fees and extra charges as they should be. The general public should not have to spend 10 minutes reading legal small-print to find out what is extra and what is not.
None shall pass!!!!
 
Atlwest1
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:16 pm

Quoting richierich (Reply 30):
Besides both being grocery stores, I have no idea what this comparison means but I'll take your word for it.

Harris Teeter is viewed as being more upscale than Kroger. Kinda like a step before you get to wholefoods.

What is the frequency of the DFW-ATL service?
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:18 pm

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 27):
Read a quote from NK in this month's Airline Business. It said that they have identified 300 domestic routes on which they could stimulate demand,

Yet almost no interest in international, particularly from FLL--it's an interesting about-face.

Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 31):
What is the frequency of the DFW-ATL service?

Single daily
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:22 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 32):
Yet almost no interest in international, particularly from FLL--it's an interesting about-face.

Caribbean, Central America, and Northern South America - except the likes of Venezuela, which is highly restricted – seems pretty much saturated from FLL. Add to that issues (capacity? I am unsure) with immigration at FLL, and it isn't overly surprising. But yes: NK is absolutely shifting course to where it believes it will earn most profit. Judging by its figures since Baldanza took over, it appears to be doing quite nicely.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
FL787
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:00 pm

Anyone know where the slot for LGA-DFW is coming from? I'm surprised they still fly LGA-DTW 3x daily. Perhaps that will go to twice daily.
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:03 pm

Quoting FL787 (Reply 34):
I'm surprised they still fly LGA-DTW 3x daily. Perhaps that will go to twice daily.

Why surprised? As a profit-orientated airline that appears pretty quick at cutting or adjusting insufficiently performing routes, they would, I am sure, alter DTW-LGA if it didn't provide sufficient return.

[Edited 2011-11-30 09:06:33]
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:06 pm

Quoting Squid (Reply 23):
AA better dig in for a fight because I think Spirit has identified their new target.

AA would be more worried if we were talking about Delta, UA, or US starting these routes.

AA shouldnt lose sleep over NK. The only traffic they will steal are the bottom feeders. I work in corporate travel and I cant think of one person who would fly NK on any circumstance.
It is what it is...
 
seatback
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:14 pm

Quoting gizmonc (Reply 16):
Trust me AA will protect that market and will most likely match fares or cut them to deal with Spriit. In the past AA has really dipped fares when other carriers moved in on DFW service. If you remembe Legend Airlines with those 56 seat DC9's out of Love Field. AA matched and filed a law suit against Legent. In the end Legend fell the the financial pressure and in 4 years they lost 44 million dollars.

With one flight a day to each city, AA's not likely to panic or match. The NK customer is NOT the AA customer.

Quoting Boiler905 (Reply 19):
Surprising considering NK's product offering isn't as business friendly as other carriers already serving these markets.

AA's bread and butter is the corporate traveller, of whom will most likely never consider NK.

Quoting Boiler905 (Reply 19):
Expanding their DFW service to JFK, IAD, ORD, and/or FLL seem like options that should be considered as their fleet grows in the future. The fact that NK beat VX to DFW expansion announcements may be a testament to which company is more aggressive with growth.

No way. VX doesn't have the deep pockets to go up against AA. If they start a fight, they won't win.

With NK and their expansion, where's the gate space coming from at DFW? I would assume the old Delta Sattelite terminal will reopen...probably a good spot for them.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:32 pm

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 33):
Caribbean, Central America, and Northern South America - except the likes of Venezuela, which is highly restricted – seems pretty much saturated from FLL. Add to that issues (capacity? I am unsure) with immigration at FLL, and it isn't overly surprising.

They've actually reduced flights noticeably to these regions, which is what I find interesting
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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enilria
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:43 pm

Quoting srbmod (Reply 4):
NK seems to be creating some mini-hubs as of late.

It's an interesting strategy. I guess they are trying to attack everybody a little bit so that it feel equal opportunity. The problem comes in when somebody lowers the boom on them.

I hear the DFW-BOS schedule is ridiculous. It's supposedly a red-eye. Ick...
 
congaboy
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:45 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 36):
I work in corporate travel and I cant think of one person who would fly NK on any circumstance.
Quoting seatback (Reply 37):
AA's bread and butter is the corporate traveller, of whom will most likely never consider NK.

Trust me, as a road warrior, I am convinced business travel will pick up on NK. Why? When your senior management says something like "we need to either drastically cut our travel budget, or cut heads", you see alot more care in how people travel for a living. Convenience takes a back seat to surviving. And for those who havent heard that warning yet, you can at times see it coming, so you pro-actively change your travel habits to look like the employee who cares how they spend the company's travel dollars. Just look at WN and FL...they started strictly as LCC's, then what...
"Joey, you like movies about gladiators?"
 
Flytravel
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:45 pm

Quoting seatback (Reply 37):
With one flight a day to each city, AA's not likely to panic or match. The NK customer is NOT the AA customer.

It may be to AA's benefit in some ways. When NK cancels a single daily flight (because of mechanical issues) and leaves the pax stranded with no option for that day, the pax might go to AA or another legacy, and pay a high walkup fare.

[Edited 2011-11-30 09:46:34]
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:27 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 39):
I hear the DFW-BOS schedule is ridiculous. It's supposedly a red-eye.

Leaves 110am, arrives 540am. So block time 3h 30m.

From this, I remembered that its IAG-FLL and PBG-FLL are both overnight, namely 205am-5am and 135am-5am respectively. Interesting when these don't have any time difference and have block times of 2h 55m and 3h 25m respectively.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
Squid
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:33 pm

My feeling is that Spirit will probably add more flights out of DFW and will be willing to loose a little money in the short term and try to mature DFW. I can see them really digging in while AA is going through CH.11, and add multiple frequencies and flights to LAX, SFO, LAS, PHX, SEA, MCI, STL, IAD, BWI, DTW, IAH, PBI, ORD, MSP, PHL, ATL, SJU, CUN, PVR, MEX, MSY, TPA, MCO, JAX, BOS, and IND. My bet is they will have 50 or 60 flight out of DFW in the next year. While AA is going through Ch.11, there is really only so much AA can do to counter. There will be more pressure on AA to cut money losing flights and capacity rather than mount a massive money losing response. While AA is in CH.11, they should consider Spirit a long term threat, and push their wages and costs domestically in line with Spirit in order to compete for the long term.

Southwest started with only 3 737's flying in Texas, and Air Tran started with a handful of DC-9's as Value Jet, but look what they have become today. Although Southwest's and Air Tran's costs have risen dramatically, and they now are basically major airlines with similar costs and operations, competing head to head with the old-school majors, there will only be so much time before airlines like Allegiant and Spirit begin to compete head to head with the major airlines too. And using the arguement that they serve a different niche, so they aren't a threat, should by now be considered a false statement. True, as Allegiant and Spirit expand and grow, their employee's and unions will demand higher wages, however they will still not be as high as the majors. Allegiant and Spirit should not be poo-poohed. AA should use this oportunity to really get their costs closer in line with Allegiant and Spirit in order to eliminate them.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:38 pm

Quoting Squid (Reply 43):
There will be more pressure on AA to cut money losing flights and capacity rather than mount a massive money losing response. While AA is in CH.11, they should consider Spirit a long term threat, and push their wages and costs domestically in line with Spirit in order to compete for the long term.

No, they really shouldnt.

NK is no threat to AA. The business community in DFW wont give them a second thought.

If anything NK in DFW will look like it does at DTW. They have a presence there, but DL takes almost all the business traffic.

[Edited 2011-11-30 11:41:03]
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Squid
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:44 pm

In my opinion, while AA is in CH.11, they should have all their new domestic/Caribbean & Central American planes delivered with slim-line seats in coach with a 29'-31' seat pitch, with maybe 5 or 6 rows of economy plus at 32' to 33' seat pitch, and retro fit their other planes they are going to keep for the long term as well. It has been proven time and time again that many consumers will book the cheapest ticket no matter what. And although these are not the passengers that major airline cater too, they are still important none the less. This should be AA's longer term strategy in order to survive in the long term. As the U.S. economy continues to flounder, coupled with inflation, more and more people as well as businesses will look even harder for cheaper transportation. American should position themselves and have a business plan that reflects this long-term/permanent change in the U.S. marketplace.

[Edited 2011-11-30 11:48:38]
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:46 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 44):
If anything NK in DFW will look like it does at DTW. They have a presence there, but DL takes almost all the business traffic.

When NK is clearly after more price-elastic market segments, it doesn't matter. Moreover, its CEO has repeatedly stated that it does not seek market share for market share sake, but rather seeks profitability on each route operated.
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Boiler905
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:59 pm

Quoting seatback (Reply 37):
No way. VX doesn't have the deep pockets to go up against AA. If they start a fight, they won't win.

With NK and their expansion, where's the gate space coming from at DFW? I would assume the old Delta Sattelite terminal will reopen...probably a good spot for them.

None of us really know how deep VX's pockets are. All we know is that AMR has $4.1bn in cash and >$20bn in liabilities. Now would seem to be the opportune time for VX to make a move at DFW. They have airplanes on the way, and are running out of longhaul options out of SFO and LAX.

You could make the "if they start a fight, they won't win" argument pretty much anywyere. If anything, VX has entered wayyy more competitive markets than the DFW ones I proposed (ie ORD-LAX).

The new planes on order have to be put somewhere (besides deferral). As I said, the sooner the better for LCCs because AA will probably come out of bankruptcy more competitive. DFW seems like a reasonable option for expansion while AA still suffers from its industry-leading high costs.

The two FL gates are now vacant, and NK has only annouced four daily new flights. Shouldn't be that hard to accomodate their new schedule in DFW (especially since the BOS flight departs at 1:10am) with their current gate(s) or adding one. No need to open up the old DL satellite terminal.
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Pe@rson
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:04 pm

Quoting Boiler905 (Reply 47):
No need to open up the old DL satellite terminal.

Purely for curiosity, do you know how many gates that satellite terminal had?
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IrishAyes
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RE: Spirit Airlines Announce Four New DFW Routes

Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:19 pm

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 20):
I don't think VX and NK would be after the same traffic even if they flew the exact same route network. NK grows to expand profit... VX has seemingly unlimited funds.

I kind of want to get a definitive answer on where VX stands in relation to the industry. Up here in Chicago, I keep hearing that they're sticking it pretty well to UA and AA on the ORD-LAX/SFO routes and stealing a lot of business traffic, yet how does this par out when taking their financial situation into play? (and it goes the same for DFW-LAX/SFO as well)

Quoting congaboy (Reply 40):
When your senior management says something like "we need to either drastically cut our travel budget, or cut heads", you see alot more care in how people travel for a living. Convenience takes a back seat to surviving.

I don't think it's that cut-and-dry. Yes, changes in necessity and advancements in technologies have made companies re-think the need for frequent corporate travel. However, that often means accelerating efforts to staff people on local engagements, or in instances when traveling is unavoidable, enforcing booking on non-refundable fares and tightening restrictions on appropriate travel classes, etc.

More to the point, I don't think it correlates as far as saying that business traffic will pick up on NK. For one, simply because NK is not specifically targeting that niche. Two, the NK ancillary fee model is not amenable for that market niche. NK makes it EXTREMELY difficult to avoid incurring hidden fees. Not only would business travelers find that irksome, but as many people pointed out on separate postings, often times when all the hidden fees add up, the price evens out between NK and the legacy carrier.

As a counterargument, convenience can outweigh survival on the cost scale. Do you really think that a business traveler is going to venture out to the airport to book their ticket in order to avoid the online ticketing fee?

Quoting congaboy (Reply 40):
Just look at WN and FL...they started strictly as LCC's, then what...
Quoting Squid (Reply 43):
Southwest started with only 3 737's flying in Texas, and Air Tran started with a handful of DC-9's as Value Jet, but look what they have become today.

Different era, different revenue period.

Quoting enilria (Reply 39):
I hear the DFW-BOS schedule is ridiculous. It's supposedly a red-eye. Ick...

Yes, I saw this and balked. I mean, don't get me wrong, DFW-BOS has been an AA monopoly route for almost 7 years now. But this schedule absolutely blows:

NK254 DFW0110 - 0540BOS 319D
NK857 BOS 0620 - 0925DFW 319D
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