leftyboarder
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What Forms EK Market From SFO And LAX?

Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:34 am

I was checking GCM distances from SFO, SEA and LAX to India (BOM and DEL) via DXB and ICN, and realized that for the most part, a routing via Seoul is actually shorter than via Dubai. Now I know that EK offers many more destinations in South Asia than one can reach via Seoul (or Shanghai or Beijing or Narita for that matter), but for the major points like BOM and DEL, it kinda makes more sense to go westbound from US Pacific.

So, I am wondering, how does EK get the feed for its twice dailies to LAX, SFO and their new flight to SEA? From MidEast and Iran alone? Africa? Or do they steal pax away from Eastern Asian carriers by lower prices?
 
chepos
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RE: What Forms EK Market From SFO And LAX?

Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:56 am

Since EK offers a plethora of destinations from it's DXB hub the flights to both LA and SFO cater to a wide array of passengers. Alot of people flying on EK out of SFO are headed to Pakistan, Iran, and of course India (among others) and being that DXB offers a wide aray of cities in the subcontinent it might be more conveneint than ICN, NRT, PEK or HKG. No matter whcih way you slice or dice it going from Cali to India/Pakistan is a long trip.

Regards,

Chepos
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tayser
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RE: What Forms EK Market From SFO And LAX?

Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:02 am

The 2nd largest metro area in the US and the largest tech-heavy industry city in the US perhaps?

jus' saying.  
 
leftyboarder
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RE: What Forms EK Market From SFO And LAX?

Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:48 pm

Quoting tayser (Reply 2):
The 2nd largest metro area in the US and the largest tech-heavy industry city in the US perhaps?

jus' saying.

You're right about that one, maybe I wasn't clear. I know there is a big market from SFO / LAX to India and Pakistan. But it seems it is actually shorter to go through East Asian alternatives than DXB unless there is a price initiative. So you could take this question either way; why don't passengers choose these alternatives, or why don't airlines from this region like KE, OZ, CZ, NH target these passengers?

Quoting chepos (Reply 1):
Since EK offers a plethora of destinations from it's DXB hub

I guess this has to be the answer. Maybe if KE opened up a few more stations in India, it could grab a market share. Or maybe the yields are too low to be worth it?
 
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Tomassjc
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RE: What Forms EK Market From SFO And LAX?

Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:35 pm

Quoting chepos (Reply 1):
No matter whcih way you slice or dice it going from Cali to India/Pakistan is a long trip


I didn't realize people flew from Colombia to India/Pakistan that frequently.

Sorry....Pet peeve calling California "Cali" .

Tom SJC
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lightsaber
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RE: What Forms EK Market From SFO And LAX?

Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:10 pm

Quoting leftyboarder (Thread starter):
I was checking GCM distances from SFO, SEA and LAX to India (BOM and DEL) via DXB and ICN, and realized that for the most part, a routing via Seoul is actually shorter than via Dubai.

What if one is flying to anywhere other than BOM or DEL.

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 3):
Maybe if KE opened up a few more stations in India, it could grab a market share.

That would require India to open the bilateral. There are currently rights for two flights. One is used to BOM and one to DEL. Last I looked the India side rights were not being used. India is notoriously difficult to amend bilaterals.

The priority for KE is MAA (due to Korean auto industry in that city). If Korea and India signed an open skies, the connections would be impressive. The same would be true of Hong Kong.

Lightsaber
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AeroWesty
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RE: What Forms EK Market From SFO And LAX?

Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:47 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 5):
If Korea and India signed an open skies, the connections would be impressive. The same would be true of Hong Kong

Oddly though, India and the US have had open skies since 2005, which has resulted in what, a half-dozen flights so far?
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pnd100
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RE: What Forms EK Market From SFO And LAX?

Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:52 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 5):
What if one is flying to anywhere other than BOM or DEL.

Exactly. This is the market that EK has cornerned with it's service of secondary cities. People may not know that the metropolitan areas of CCU, MAA, AMD, BLR & HYD have over 5 million residents EACH. The business market in these cities is growing at the same rate or higher as India. As Delhi & Mumbai become saturated, companies & people turn to these cities. EK flies direct to all the cities mentioned nonstop from DXB. This is a big plus for many people in the India-California market. If you are flying to DAC, CMB, KHI, LHE or ISB the same advantages are there. Not to mention the fares are usually cheaper or more flexible than flying westbound.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 5):
India is notoriously difficult to amend bilaterals.

Well said.
 
flySFO
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RE: What Forms EK Market From SFO And LAX?

Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:22 am

It might help that Los Angeles has the second largest population of Persians outside of Iran... and that they have the money to fly halfway around the world to visit family.
 
something
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RE: What Forms EK Market From SFO And LAX?

Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:15 am

Quoting flySFO (Reply 8):
It might help that Los Angeles has the second largest population of Persians outside of Iran... and that they have the money to fly halfway around the world to visit family.

TK made it very clear that the ''Arabic/Persian'' market ex LAX is what they're after and it appears to work for them.
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emirates202
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RE: What Forms EK Market From SFO And LAX?

Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:41 am

Also, EK has a much better product in all 3 cabins,than most airlines! Fly Emirates!
Fly Emirates, Hello Tomorrow
 
cmf
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RE: What Forms EK Market From SFO And LAX?

Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:07 am

Quoting leftyboarder (Thread starter):
but for the major points like BOM and DEL, it kinda makes more sense to go westbound from US Pacific.

I will do almost anything to avoid crossing the dateline. I have no issue with jet lag except when I cross the dateline. Don't think there are too many who care about it but I know a few who are like me.

Then there are the normal reason of finding good deals and better connection to the end point as already mentioned.
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airbusfanyyz
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RE: What Forms EK Market From SFO And LAX?

Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:02 pm

In addition to the obvious South Asian markets, a significant portion of LAX market is heading to IKA.
 
UAL747
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RE: What Forms EK Market From SFO And LAX?

Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:42 pm

Since when does EK need a market to fly a route? 
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leftyboarder
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RE: What Forms EK Market From SFO And LAX?

Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:49 pm

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 13):
Since when does EK need a market to fly a route?

I wonder the same sometimes, especially after seeing a TR of an almost empty DXB-ZRH flight. How do they make money? 
 
Viscount724
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RE: What Forms EK Market From SFO And LAX?

Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:01 pm

Quoting emirates202 (Reply 10):
Also, EK has a much better product in all 3 cabins,than most airlines

10-abreast in Y class on 777s is not "better" than most 777 operators which are 9-abreast.
7-abreast (2-3-2) in J class on A330s and A340-300s is not better than virtually all other A330/340 operators that are never more than 6-abreast in J (2-2-2). EK must be virtually the only operator of those types with 7-abreast in business class.
 
TravelsUK
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RE: What Forms EK Market From SFO And LAX?

Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:09 am

Quoting emirates202 (Reply 10):
Also, EK has a much better product in all 3 cabins,than most airlines! Fly Emirates!

I'm sorry but how is 10 abreast in Y is a better product?!! Dam uncomforatble on an ultra long haul IMHO.
 
DTWLAX
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RE: What Forms EK Market From SFO And LAX?

Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:01 am

Quoting leftyboarder (Thread starter):
Now I know that EK offers many more destinations in South Asia than one can reach via Seoul (or Shanghai or Beijing or Narita for that matter), but for the major points like BOM and DEL, it kinda makes more sense to go westbound from US Pacific.

Please note that even for destination slike BOM, KE does not offer daily flights but just 3 a week. EK offers about 4-5 daily flights to BOM & DEL.
ALso to note that apart from KE, there is no good 1-stop connection to BOM from California via ICN, HKG, or NRT. Most of them have layovers in excess of 7 hours.

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