UNITED777ORD
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UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:26 pm

With the strong possibility of an AA/US merger and US leaving the Star Alliance, will UA/CO establish a east coast shuttle between EWR, BOS, IAD with hourly or near hourly service? In the scenario of a AA/US merger, Skyteam (DL/NW) and OneWorld (AA/US) would have east coast shuttles and Star Alliance would not.

United Airlines Shuttle
EWR-BOS 11x E70 6am-9pm every 1.5 hours
EWR-IAD 11x E70 6am-9pm every 1.5 hours

BOS-EWR 11x E70 6am-9pm every 1.5 hours
BOS-IAD 11x E70 6am-9pm every 1.5 hours

IAD-BOS 11x E70 6am-9pm every 1.5 hours
IAD-EWR 11x E70 6am-9pm every 1.5 hours

Just my two cents.....
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:32 pm

In the case of IAD, a shuttle operation would fail miserably. IAD is too far away from the DC areas business core to justify that level of service.
 
ScottB
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:43 pm

Quoting United777ORD (Thread starter):
will UA/CO establish a east coast shuttle between EWR, BOS, IAD with hourly or near hourly service?

I think it's exceedingly unlikely. Back in the early 1990's, CO ran an hourly shuttle from EWR to both BOS & DCA, but that service is long gone. EWR-IAD would have even less demand. The BOS-LGA-DCA shuttles are pretty empty on most flights; I doubt they make money anymore apart from helping to win corporate contracts.
 
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STT757
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:47 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 2):
Back in the early 1990's, CO ran an hourly shuttle from EWR to both BOS & DCA

Late '90s CO was running 23 daily nonstops between EWR and BOS, all MD-80s.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
DLD9S
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:04 pm

The location of LGA and DCA to NYC and DC are important factors in the history of the success of the shuttle. The extra travel time to EWR and IAD would probably be a deal killer for many customers that use the current DL and US products.
717 727 737 747 757 767 777 DC9 DC10 M80 M90 M11 L10 AB6 333 340 319 320 321 ARJ CRJ EM2 EMJ SF3 146 100 BE1...
 
catiii
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:10 pm

Quoting DLD9S (Reply 4):
The extra travel time to EWR and IAD would probably be a deal killer for many customers that use the current DL and US products.

EWR with the airtrain to NJT and then Penn Station is actually incredibly convenient. LGA to Manhattan can be a crap shoot.

IAD though is a non-starter.
 
Bureaucromancer
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:14 pm

Really the future of the shuttles, if they have ones at all is going to have to be in things like the expansion to Chicago, and other longer sectors like Boston-Washington. Fuel costs aside for a moment Acela just doesn't leave the airlines in a competitive place for New York centred trips and any further investment is only going grow the rail market share. The shuttle just isn't all that attractive a model if you've got anything like competitive ground transportation between security, airport distance (even with BOS, LGW and DCA) and cost; even the buses are eating significantly into what was once the shuttle's market at this point.
 
DLD9S
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:18 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 5):
EWR with the airtrain to NJT and then Penn Station is actually incredibly convenient.

Very true, but if you are going to Penn Station to get on a train to EWR, you might as well just get on the Acela to Boston or DC.

Does anyone know if UA will continue CO's reciprocal mileage plan with Amtrak on the Acela?
717 727 737 747 757 767 777 DC9 DC10 M80 M90 M11 L10 AB6 333 340 319 320 321 ARJ CRJ EM2 EMJ SF3 146 100 BE1...
 
tommy767
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:20 pm

With UA flying mainline on BOS-IAD and EWR-BOS mixed with regionals, I don't see why they would need a shuttle.

EWR-BOS sees a/c as large as 739s and as small as colgan Q400s

IAD-BOS sees a/c as large as 757s and as small as CRJs.

Maybe EWR-BOS will start to see UA 757s soon enough?
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
727LOVER
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:22 pm

Hey, as of today, you can stop referring to it as UA/CO......
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
gigneil
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:26 pm

Yep. Officially, there is no longer an airline called Continental.

NS
 
Mir
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:27 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 5):
EWR with the airtrain to NJT and then Penn Station is actually incredibly convenient. LGA to Manhattan can be a crap shoot.

That requires you to get to Penn Station, though, which can be difficult from the East Side. LGA can be a crapshoot, but is generally more car-friendly than EWR (public transport is a mess, of course).

-Mir
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mogandoCI
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:59 pm

Why not try something different like a ORD-DCA and ORD-BOS shuttle with smaller planes than ORD-LGA
 
gigneil
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:06 pm

I think ORD-DCA is about as close as you can get. There's already 17 nonstops on most days.

NS
 
UALFAson
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:21 pm

It surprises me, but from a marketing standpoint, airlines have all but stopped advertising their "shuttle" operations along the DCA-LGA-BOS corridor.

Yes, they still have airport signage that uses the word "shuttle" and perhaps also have dedicated check-in and gate areas, but the aircraft themselves have long since had any Shuttle titleage removed from both inside and outside the aircraft. And with decrease in airline advertising in general, also long gone are the advertisements announcing service "every hour on the half hour" and seat availability guarantees.

I say surprising because I would think the airlines would want to draw attention to their product and fight back against Amtrak, which is probably the best way to get in and out of NY, esp if you are heading to Manhattan. Maybe they have just decided it's a lost cause.

On a separate but related note, what was the final decision (was there one?) about using Express aircraft between IAD & EWR. Don't all hub-to-hub routes have to be operated on mainline equipment? Are we going to start seeing upgrades anytime soon?
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tommy767
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:26 pm

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 14):
On a separate but related note, what was the final decision (was there one?) about using Express aircraft between IAD & EWR. Don't all hub-to-hub routes have to be operated on mainline equipment? Are we going to start seeing upgrades anytime soon?

Yeah and that's annoying because it's all on regional ERJs or even worse, DH8s. Pathetic for services between 2 hubs. Isn't this also a violation of scope?

However, on an odd day if you look (and you have to REALLY dig) you might find an occasional 738 between the two hubs.
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apodino
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:32 pm

In recent years BOS-EWR really served more as a flight with mostly connecting passengers on it and very little O and D. BOS is a city where EWR connections make sense from to just about anywhere. I don't see that changing anytime soon, though I do see less frequency because the merged company has a lot more options to route people over, where PMCO only had CLE and IAH in addition to EWR.

As for IAD, US tried to make IAD a shuttle city to both BOS and LGA around the same time MetroJet was in operation. It failed miserably and didn't last long at all.

The only shuttle route that makes sense these days is BOS-DCA, where there is no comporable ground transport that can compete the way they can on any shuttle routes involving LGA.
 
LV
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:38 pm

I would guess with ancillary revenues becoming a bigger and bigger part of the airline equation the shuttles are some of the lost ancillary revenue producing flights (no luggage, almost no one will want snacks and probably only a small amount of alcohol).
 
Bureaucromancer
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:42 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 16):
The only shuttle route that makes sense these days is BOS-DCA, where there is no comporable ground transport that can compete the way they can on any shuttle routes involving LGA.

I'd think Chicago (whatever field it is these days) LGA and Chicago DCA if anyone cared to try would perform reasonably as well. Not traditional shuttle true, but the first one at least is part of what branding is left now...
 
gigneil
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:46 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 15):
Pathetic for services between 2 hubs. Isn't this also a violation of scope?

They're like 200 miles apart. Seriously? I'd like to see Q400s on it all day long. They're nice, will have E+ and F, and are the correct fiscal choice.


NS
 
tommy767
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:50 pm

Quoting gigneil (Reply 19):

It's hub to hub. They have no place on a route like EWR-IAD. Any other route of that length, absolutely.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
gigneil
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:03 pm

I'm sorry, I just really don't care. If its hub to hub, they've captured the traffic already and there's no need to do anything else to compete for it.

At this point, we should be wanting the airlines to do what makes sense, not what we think would be "awesome". That route is lightly traveled as it is and I'd rather them use the gas, and the plane, on routes that are longer and have regional jets presently.

Hell, lets look more towards IAD and IAH than IAD and EWR.

NS
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:25 pm

Quoting Bureaucromancer (Reply 18):
I'd think Chicago (whatever field it is these days) LGA and Chicago DCA if anyone cared to try would perform reasonably as well

Today (December 1st) there are 15 regular DCA-ORD departures and 15 regular ORD-DCA departures -- 16 regular ORD-LGA departures, and 16 regular LGA-ORD departures.

Every flight listed on United.com uses E170, A319, or A320 equipment and features F, Y+, and Y seating.

What I can't get my head around is how changing to a shuttle-type setup (with one-class seating?) would be an improvement over the current level of service.
 
lhcvg
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:33 pm

Quoting DLD9S (Reply 7):
Does anyone know if UA will continue CO's reciprocal mileage plan with Amtrak on the Acela?

There was a blurb a while back about that staying around, but I don't have a cite for that. I believe I saw it on FlyerTalk.
 
boilerla
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:41 pm

Quoting United777ORD (Thread starter):
With the strong possibility of an AA/US merger and US leaving the Star Alliance, will UA/CO establish a east coast shuttle between EWR, BOS, IAD with hourly or near hourly service? In the scenario of a AA/US merger, Skyteam (DL/NW) and OneWorld (AA/US) would have east coast shuttles and Star Alliance would not.

I think if such a merger were approved (and that's a big if--in a couple of years who knows what the DOJ will feel like) then the resulting airline will probably be required to divest itself of a significant number of DCA and LGA slots to win approval. So, OneWorld may not have much of a shuttle either.
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:50 pm

Quoting gigneil (Reply 19):
Seriously? I'd like to see Q400s on it all day long. They're nice, will have E+ and F, and are the correct fiscal choice.

Yet everyone wants PD to come to their city -- how odd this conversation is becoming.

Personally, my last Q400 flight (a QX flight on Monday) was YYJ-SEA. But I've flown QX Q400s as far east as Billings Montana (about 750 miles). True -- there's less bin space than on a 777.

So the desire to have 744s plying the 212 miles between EWR and IAD must only be an A.net thing.
 
bohica
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:58 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 15):
Quoting UALFAson (Reply 14):
On a separate but related note, what was the final decision (was there one?) about using Express aircraft between IAD & EWR. Don't all hub-to-hub routes have to be operated on mainline equipment? Are we going to start seeing upgrades anytime soon?

Yeah and that's annoying because it's all on regional ERJs or even worse, DH8s. Pathetic for services between 2 hubs. Isn't this also a violation of scope?

Under the UA scope clause it was worded that express carriers could not operate between two pilot domiciles. The WAS-NYC route was grandfathered in so express carriers could operate between the two cities. I don't know if it has been determined who will operate the route under the merged contract.
 
delta2ual
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:02 pm

Quoting DLD9S (Reply 7):
Does anyone know if UA will continue CO's reciprocal mileage plan with Amtrak on the Acela?

Maybe on Acela, but I received an e-mail from Amtrak saying all my CO points had to be transferred to my Amtrak Guest Rewards account by 12/31/2011 as that was the last day for accruing/redemption.
From the world's largest airline-to the world's largest airline. Delta2ual
 
ScottB
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:26 pm

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 22):
What I can't get my head around is how changing to a shuttle-type setup (with one-class seating?)

Neither of the Shuttle operations are single-class anymore. The one-class Shuttle operations were generally better than the ordinary DL or US Y product, as they featured increased legroom (150 economy seats on a 738 is a pretty spacious configuration) along with complimentary wine & beer and a light snack IIRC.

Quoting apodino (Reply 16):
The only shuttle route that makes sense these days is BOS-DCA

BOS-DCA isn't a Shuttle route in the classic sense and it's only branded as Shuttle by US.

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 14):
It surprises me, but from a marketing standpoint, airlines have all but stopped advertising their "shuttle" operations along the DCA-LGA-BOS corridor.

It's really not surprising because the Shuttles aren't generally competitive against ground transportation anymore.
 
DualQual
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:30 pm

Quoting bohica (Reply 26):

Under the UA scope clause it was worded that express carriers could not operate between two pilot domiciles

It's the same in the CO pilot contract as well.
There's no known cure for stupid
 
washingtonian
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:38 pm

The LGA-DCA portion of the US Shuttle provides a ton of feed into their DCA hub and has remained with A-319s. The LGA-BOS portion has been E-190s for some time now.

Delta, on the other hand, operates A-319s on LGA-BOS (they have large operations on both ends) and E-jets on LGA-DCA. There have been plenty of rumors over the past two years about equipments swaps on all four of these routes but nothing has changed. So I think this setup is here to stay for the near future.
 
N62NA
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:08 am

Quoting catiii (Reply 5):
EWR with the airtrain to NJT and then Penn Station is actually incredibly convenient. LGA to Manhattan can be a crap shoot.
Quoting Bureaucromancer (Reply 6):
Acela just doesn't leave the airlines in a competitive place for New York centred trips and any further investment is only going grow the rail market share.
Quoting DLD9S (Reply 7):
Very true, but if you are going to Penn Station to get on a train to EWR, you might as well just get on the Acela to Boston or DC.

All 3 excellent points.

I think the 21st century candidates for "shuttle" ops would be LGA-ATL on DL and LGA-ORD on DL, UA and AA.

I honestly don't see any "formal" shuttle operation ever operating from EWR to anywhere as it would require a significant amount of Manhattan originating travelers and those travelers will always favor LGA over EWR.
 
VC10er
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:33 pm

I just did Acela from Penn to Boston, RT, in business was $244. The upgrade to the business car was like $16 bucks and got a foot rest and a darker lit car. It's not cheap.
But it is convenient with ZERO security. Which concerns me as it is really a soft target.

What agreement between UA and Amtrak?
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delta2ual
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:47 pm

Quoting VC10er (Reply 32):
What agreement between UA and Amtrak?

There is none. CO had an agreement with Amtrak which, according to an e-mail I received yesterday, ends on 12/31/2011.
From the world's largest airline-to the world's largest airline. Delta2ual
 
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seabosdca
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:54 pm

There may be some room for growth on DC-NY air services just because Acela (and even Amtrak regional service) is very capacity-constrained at the moment. Pretty much every train during peak hours runs full, and there is no additional capacity for trains coming anytime soon (gee, thanks, Gov. Christie  banghead  ), so growth will have to go to air or bus services.

But UA is the most poorly positioned airline to take advantage of any such growth. US is in a much better position to do so, whether it merges with AA or not. It's hard to overstate just how much of a pain in the ass it is to get from IAD to downtown DC, at least without paying $65 for a cab ride.

[Edited 2011-12-02 05:55:32]

[Edited 2011-12-02 05:56:01]
 
DLMD90
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:02 pm

I doubt it, does anyone really want to go to IAD or EWR? Not really.
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:27 pm

Quoting DLMD90 (Reply 35):
does anyone really want to go to IAD or EWR?

But of course -- the tens of millions of O&D who live in those locations.   
 
Cubsrule
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:31 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 16):
In recent years BOS-EWR really served more as a flight with mostly connecting passengers on it and very little O and D. BOS is a city where EWR connections make sense from to just about anywhere. I don't see that changing anytime soon, though I do see less frequency because the merged company has a lot more options to route people over, where PMCO only had CLE and IAH in addition to EWR.

I don't think this is right. Wasn't BOS moved to Concourse A when they just moved a handful of destinations (Chicago was another) because of the relatively LOW number of connecting passengers?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
c680
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:08 pm

True shuttle only work DCA-LGA-BOS due to close in proximity. Sorry, EWR is still "Jersey" to many, many New Yorkers. But I also remember the real shuttles where you didn't need a reservation, paid on-board, and they would pull out an extra plane if the first one filled up.

DCA-ORD-LGA was probably a candidate for "real" shuttle service back in the day, but they have almost always been high frequency corridors with traditional hourly service.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 32):
But [Acela] is convenient with ZERO security. Which concerns me as it is really a soft target.

And a big reason why many people take it. Believe it or not, some people would rather take a very, very tiny security risk to avoid being treated like a criminal by under educated security guards. Downtown to Downtown without TSA also makes the time difference pretty minimal.
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mogandoCI
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:35 pm

Quoting C680 (Reply 38):
But I also remember the real shuttles where you didn't need a reservation, paid on-board, and they would pull out an extra plane if the first one filled up.

That is nostalgic and may have sense when oil was pennies on the dollar.... and back then, rail was painfully outdated or slow, so flying was the real alternative

If UA/CO is smart, they would stay out of it. EWR doesn't exactly have troves of slots for the grabbing, and UA/CO is much better served with massive expansion of international services (where the real money is) using those scarce slots. There are lots of opportunities to fill-in gaps in South America, Scandinavia, Eastern Bloc, and Far East.
 
tommy767
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:42 pm

Quoting C680 (Reply 38):

And a big reason why many people take it. Believe it or not, some people would rather take a very, very tiny security risk to avoid being treated like a criminal by under educated security guards. Downtown to Downtown without TSA also makes the time difference pretty minimal.

Acela is too expensive and the metroliner is too slow. There are some serious pros and cons to both modes of transportation. EWR-BOS on a 739 isn't a bad way to go though.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 39):
If UA/CO is smart, they would stay out of it. EWR doesn't exactly have troves of slots for the grabbing, and UA/CO is much better served with massive expansion of international services (where the real money is) using those scarce slots. There are lots of opportunities to fill-in gaps in South America, Scandinavia, Eastern Bloc, and Far East.

EWR-BOS is by the book a business route though. If anything, expect MORE mainline with the merger, not less. There's a lot of useless prop flying with frequency out of EWR that can be used for more mainline or international services to Europe. In time that will change I'm sure.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
ScottB
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:50 pm

Quoting VC10er (Reply 32):
I just did Acela from Penn to Boston, RT, in business was $244. The upgrade to the business car was like $16 bucks and got a foot rest and a darker lit car. It's not cheap.

It's a screaming bargain compared to the Shuttles. $818 round-trip on short notice -- and that's before another $20 in taxes & fees. Plus no cab needed to/from La Guardia or Logan.
 
Bureaucromancer
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:43 pm

Quoting C680 (Reply 38):
And a big reason why many people take it. Believe it or not, some people would rather take a very, very tiny security risk to avoid being treated like a criminal by under educated security guards

Add to that that while ground transportation in general makes for a softer target it is considerably harder to get either the same impact with a single attack and damn near impossible to use the vehicle itself as a weapon the way an airliner can be.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 41):
It's a screaming bargain compared to the Shuttles. $818 round-trip on short notice -- and that's before another $20 in taxes & fees. Plus no cab needed to/from La Guardia or Logan.

Exactly. Acela especially isn't cheap, but the buses are doing a pretty good job at buses. As long as it's vaguely time competitive it doesn't really HAVE to be cheap, just cheaper. Beyond that, what seabosdca said is completely true. As long as the corridor is capacity constrained the fares will be whatever can be charged and still fill the trains.
 
N62NA
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:02 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 34):
Pretty much every train during peak hours runs full, and there is no additional capacity for trains coming anytime soon (gee, thanks, Gov. Christie banghead ), so growth will have to go to air or bus services.

It's not due to the fact that there won't be another tunnel built under the Hudson to NYC Penn Station. The Acela typically runs only 4 or 5 cars - the platforms can handle double that amount. If Amtrak wants to add capacity to Acela, they simply have to purchase additional cars (now THAT could be a problem, given the Federal government's general dislike for giving Amtrak more funding).
 
Bureaucromancer
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:51 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 43):
It's not due to the fact that there won't be another tunnel built under the Hudson to NYC Penn Station. The Acela typically runs only 4 or 5 cars - the platforms can handle double that amount. If Amtrak wants to add capacity to Acela, they simply have to purchase additional cars (now THAT could be a problem, given the Federal government's general dislike for giving Amtrak more funding).

To some extent. They do have enough trains to run a somewhat more frequent service but for the corridors lack of slots. This is even more true as you look at the regional and commuter services in the corridor.
 
EWRandMDW
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:47 pm

Quoting C680 (Reply 38):
Sorry, EWR is still "Jersey" to many, many New Yorkers.

Does anyone really care what a New Yorker thinks?
 
davescj
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RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:11 pm

Quoting United777ORD (Thread starter):
With the strong possibility of an AA/US merger and US leaving the Star Alliance

Forgive me, but when did this become a stung possibility? Don't get me wrong, i would be in favor of the merger, but I doubt it will happen.

Quoting catiii (Reply 5):
EWR with the airtrain to NJT and then Penn Station is actually incredibly convenient. LGA to Manhattan can be a crap shoot.

IAD though is a non-starter.

I agree with this. I think NYC -BOS, NYC- ORD is the most logical "shuttle" routes. But again it will depend in the end what routes are profitable.

Dave
Can I have a mojito on this flight?
 
COEWR787
Posts: 304
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:35 pm

RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:45 pm

Quoting delta2ual (Reply 33):
There is none. CO had an agreement with Amtrak which, according to an e-mail I received yesterday, ends on 12/31/2011.

There is a new agreement in the works which will apparently allow cross accrual but not cross redemption. But do treat tis just as a hearsay for now until something concrete is announced.

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 34):
There may be some room for growth on DC-NY air services just because Acela (and even Amtrak regional service) is very capacity-constrained at the moment. Pretty much every train during peak hours runs full, and there is no additional capacity for trains coming anytime soon (gee, thanks, Gov. Christie banghead ), so growth will have to go to air or bus services.
Quoting N62NA (Reply 43):
It's not due to the fact that there won't be another tunnel built under the Hudson to NYC Penn Station. The Acela typically runs only 4 or 5 cars - the platforms can handle double that amount. If Amtrak wants to add capacity to Acela, they simply have to purchase additional cars (now THAT could be a problem, given the Federal government's general dislike for giving Amtrak more funding).

Amtrak is about to order 40 new Acela Business Car cars which will allow them to add 2 cars per trainset thus upgrading each Acela to consist of 6 BC, 1FC and a Cafe Trial runs have been completed and the concept validated. Cars, if ordered as planned should come on line late 2013 through 2014. They are being funded through an RRIF or commercial loan secured by additional revenues.
 
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jfklganyc
Posts: 4077
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:27 pm

Wrong airports in NYC and DC.

Need LGA and DCA for a "shuttle" operation.

JFK fan that I am, I have to admit nothing (absolutely nothing) can beat the convenience of the Marine Air Terminal at LGA.

Rear deplane off the shuttle, walk across the tarmac, enter the terminal next to baggage claim, out the door 30 feet later, in your Town Car or Yellow Cab 30 feet later, on the Grand Central or BQE 5 minutes later, in the city (Manhattan to you non New Yorkers) 10 minutes later.

Your at EWR or JFK, you're still are waiting for the AirTrain haha
 
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STT757
Posts: 13268
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast

Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:34 pm

FWIW Mapquest quotes the following drive times from Wall Street:

LGA 22 minutes
EWR 28 minutes
JFK 38 minutes
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757

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