FlyASAGuy2005
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Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:36 pm

As I sit looking over some forms I began to think about AS and their very unique position as a network carrier that not only encompases an entire region but uses it to their advantage by feeding many carriers and being "fed" in their key hubs.

The term code-share whore is usually thrown around and I've used it myself in the past but I don't mean it in a negative way. I absolutely think its a brilliant way of doing business especially when you're considered THE airline in many markets wear others are significantly weaker or not present at all with their own metal but rather by putting a code on AS flights.

So, I thought we could list and discuss the various agreements AS has with the other network carriers and which are more beneficial than others when it comes to FFs. One last thing. I know AS flies to several cities where they may only have one or two flights a day so are staffed by OAL or a contractor. In ATL, MSP and EWR, they are handled by DL. Any other stations where they are handled by Mother D or other airlines such as AA?
What gets measured gets done.
 
davescj
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:58 pm

Well, as an opening comment, AS and DL have a very cozy relationship. To the point where DL elites get upgrades on AS and vice versa. Also, DL codeshares on AS.

AA, UA also have codeshares with AS.

In both cases of AA and UA, one of the key advantages is frequent flights to Alaska, which would not be possible for any of the carriers alone.

Dave
Can I have a mojito on this flight?
 
point2point
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:04 pm

Quoting davescj (Reply 1):
AA, UA also have codeshares with AS.

Where do AS and UA have codeshares? Didn't know that they did.

Also, the AS code share foreign-flag (as well as domestic) carriers are listed below, as per AS's website:

Air France
Air Pacific
American Airlines
British Airways
Cathay Pacific
Delta Air Lines
Era Alaska
Icelandair
Kenmore Air
KLM
Korean Air
LAN
PenAir
Qantas

http://www.alaskaair.com/content/tra...ur-trip/codeshare-information.aspx

Quite impressive.......
 
nutsaboutplanes
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:11 pm

Quoting davescj (Reply 1):
AA, UA also have codeshares with AS.
UA does not codeshare with AS.....there is bad blood between the two and AS has made it a mission to force the "shrinkage" of UA in the PACNW.   

They have had great success in this mission as UA has done nothing but shrink in Seattle......now they just need to get CO off of the SEA - ANC run just as they did with UA a few years ago.

They do however interline PAX and Bags on an unlimited basis.   

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Thread starter):
In ATL, MSP and EWR, they are handled by DL. Any other stations where they are handled by Mother D or other airlines such as AA?
DL also does the ground handling at IAH and I believe MCO but I am not sure about MIA.....anybody know for sure?

[Edited 2011-12-03 14:13:51]
American Airlines, US Airways, Alaska Airlines, Northwest Airlines, America West Airlines, USAFR
 
threeifbyair
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:37 pm

DCA is handled by DL
ORD is handled by AA

I don't know BOS or MIA - those are the only two AS transcons I'm missing.
 
Gemuser
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:06 pm

Quoting point2point (Reply 2):
Also, the AS code share foreign-flag (as well as domestic) carriers are listed below, as per AS's website:

Air France
Air Pacific
American Airlines
British Airways
Cathay Pacific
Delta Air Lines
Era Alaska
Icelandair
Kenmore Air
KLM
Korean Air
LAN
PenAir
Qantas

Interesting.
6 of 14 are OneWorld (FJ, AA, BA, CX, LA & QF)
4 of 14 are SkyTeam (AF, DL, KL, KE)
The remaining 4 are AFAIK unaligined
So no StarA!

Gemuser
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EA CO AS
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:08 pm

Quoting ThreeIfByAir (Reply 4):
I don't know BOS or MIA - those are the only two AS transcons I'm missing.

BOS = DL
MIA = Swissport
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Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:29 pm

Quoting gemuser (Reply 5):
Interesting.
6 of 14 are OneWorld (FJ, AA, BA, CX, LA & QF)
4 of 14 are SkyTeam (AF, DL, KL, KE)
The remaining 4 are AFAIK unaligined
So no StarA!

No, in fact recall that AS and CO used to be FF and code-share partners until CO jumped ship to Star. They soon after ended their partnerships.
 
ORDJOE
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:35 pm

AS has found it works better to play the field a bit and work with anyone (except UA and star). AS covers a big enough niche that is gets into a symbiosis with other carriers. They provide each other feed which either of them alone would have a hard time sustaining these routes. Also AA is extremely cozy with AS. Earn and burn, you can get up to AA exp flying on AS metal.
 
gmcc
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:37 am

There is also a rumor that with the arrival of EK at SEA there might be something in the works with EK. That would make things interesting,
 
hiflyeras
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:50 am

I'd love to see AS hire their own employees in HNL and OGG....with this winter's schedule having flights morning noon and night it seems they could justify having their own people. It might be more the cost involved with leasing and building their own ticket counter/check-in space.
 
ANCsupercub
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:52 am

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Thread starter):
In ATL, MSP and EWR, they are handled by DL. Any other stations where they are handled by Mother D or other airlines such as AA?

I believe dl does their handling in HNL (I would guess the rest of Hawaii as well) which is surprising given the number of flight out of their a day.
 
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RWA380
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:19 am

Quoting gmcc (Reply 9):

[quote=gmcc,reply=9]There is also a rumor that with the arrival of EK at SEA there might be something in the works with EK. That would make things interesting.

I am sure that both AS & EK need this relationship to fill a daily 777 to DXB. I have said this from the moment I saw the route announced. EK would be fools to not use the AS system in the entire NW region to help fill their plane, especialy from PDX.
Next Flights: PDX-HNL-OGG-LIH-PDX On AS, WP & HA
 
wedgetail737
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:27 am

Quoting nutsaboutplanes (Reply 3):
UA does not codeshare with AS.....there is bad blood between the two and AS has made it a mission to force the "shrinkage" of UA in the PACNW.

They have had great success in this mission as UA has done nothing but shrink in Seattle......now they just need to get CO off of the SEA - ANC run just as they did with UA a few years ago.

I think the next step is closing the Skywest EMB-120 operation.
 
DL747400
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:08 am

On word describes the relationship that AS has with DL and AS........... Dating.

AS is not yet engaged, but they have a pretty good idea of where they want to end up.
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andrewuber
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:19 am

Quoting DL747400 (Reply 14):

If you're hinting at merger - nobody can afford to buy AS. With a stock price over eight times more valuable than DL's and nearly $2 billion in the bank, AS is not going to be absorbed by anyone soon.
I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
 
ghifty
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:21 am

Alaska is one of my favorite airlines, good staff/service and new planes. Good ontime performance as well. By far my favorite US airline.

But, why is a "relationship" with AS so sought after? And what makes people think AA/AS should merge? Or DL/AS?

Quoting DL747400 (Reply 14):

On word describes the relationship that AS has with DL and AS........... Dating.

AS is not yet engaged, but they have a pretty good idea of where they want to end up.

Dating, or (as per facebook) "it's complicated?"
Fly Delta Jets
 
SuperDash
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:28 am

Quoting gmcc (Reply 9):
There is also a rumor that with the arrival of EK at SEA there might be something in the works with EK. That would make things interesting,

I actually hope this is true. As a Gold, I can fly DL or AA or KL or AF or LA and get EQMs toward my AS Gold status. While AS has marketing relationships that do not provide status with carriers like BA, CX, KE and QF, if EK fell into that category that would be fine with me. I can get AS miles anywhere I fly. The new AA relationship means FREE BAGS now on both AA and DL and Early Board. That means I will do what I can to keep AS Gold. And there in lies the brilliance of their relationships with other carriers. Keep up the good work Alaska (and Horizon).

As for EK, they need to add AS code to their DXB flight and their connecting flights to India...why?...two words... OH CANADA! (EK won't be allowed to put their code on AS flights to Canada, but nothing prevents them from adding the AS code on their flights). That alone would fill a daily Q400 from YVR.
 
PGNCS
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:30 am

Quoting andrewuber (Reply 15):
With a stock price over eight times more valuable than DL's and nearly $2 billion in the bank

I don't buy into the school that says that Alaska is looking for a merger, but bringing up share price without discussing the number of outstanding shares is meaningless. What are the market caps of the two? It's a very different answer.
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:31 am

Quoting gmcc (Reply 9):
There is also a rumor that with the arrival of EK at SEA there might be something in the works with EK. That would make things interesting,

EK would have to be nuts not to aggressively pursue this relationship. I suspect we'll see an announcement sometime in the next few months, it simply makes too much sense to not make it happen.

Quoting andrewuber (Reply 15):
If you're hinting at merger - nobody can afford to buy AS. With a stock price over eight times more valuable than DL's and nearly $2 billion in the bank, AS is not going to be absorbed by anyone soon.

Somehow, this flies right over the head of a lot of folks around here, but it's completely accurate. AS is an insanely expensive acquisition target and there's no chance that any of the remaining legacy carriers are going to have the cash to buy it out in the foreseeable future. For that matter, people forget that this "code-share" whore thing is a pretty good deal for DL, AA, etc. too...lots of connection opportunities for the customer with none of the expense of having to devote their own metal to the PNW/West Coast.

I can speak to the convenience of AS' numerous codeshare arrangements myself--I was able to fly SEA-HEL via LAX/CDG (yes, I know--connection hell) three years ago on AS/AF/AY using DL miles. Granted, AS was only a small part of that trip, but given the last-minute necessity of finding an alternative to any of the sold-out direct flights to AMS or CDG from SEA, having AS in that arrangement was handy.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:02 am

Quoting gemuser (Reply 5):
6 of 14 are OneWorld (FJ, AA, BA, CX, LA & QF)

You mean 5 of the 14. FJ are not part of OW

Quoting gemuser (Reply 5):
So no StarA!

Not really surprising. UA's services up and down the West Coast, while not as extensive as AS's services are adequate for *A carriers.
 
Alias1024
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:04 am

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 19):
Somehow, this flies right over the head of a lot of folks around here, but it's completely accurate. AS is an insanely expensive acquisition target and there's no chance that any of the remaining legacy carriers are going to have the cash to buy it out in the foreseeable future.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Right now Alaska has a market cap around $2.5 Billion. United's is around $6.5 billion and Delta is a little over $7 billion. Using a combination of stock, their own cash and Alaska's cash, which they'd get when they buy the company, either UA or DL could likely come up with a reasonable offer.

The real reason not to buy Alaska is that the business case is shaky at best. In a merger one of the two big codeshares would disappear, likely causing a significant revenue hit to the Alaska network, which would have to be made up by additional network synergies and cost savings from the combined carrier. At the same time, savings from reduction of duplication might be negated as other aspects of the Alaska operation see costs rise to the higher cost structure of the acquiring airline.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:13 am

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 21):
I wouldn't be so sure about that. Right now Alaska has a market cap around $2.5 Billion. United's is around $6.5 billion and Delta is a little over $7 billion. Using a combination of stock, their own cash and Alaska's cash, which they'd get when they buy the company, either UA or DL could likely come up with a reasonable offer.

I thought that AS has some 'poison pill' arrangement to prevent a hostile takeover. Even if UA wanted to buy them out I would be surprised if they would be permitted to. Surely they are the two biggest operators up and down the West Coast , and I would think they must be two of the three biggest West Coast- Hawaii operators as well.
 
asaad11
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:43 am

I believe DL also handles AS in STL and soon to be MCI
 
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AirlineCritic
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:10 am

Quoting point2point (Reply 2):
Also, the AS code share foreign-flag (as well as domestic) carriers are listed below, as per AS's website:

Air France
Air Pacific
American Airlines
British Airways
Cathay Pacific
Delta Air Lines
Era Alaska
Icelandair
Kenmore Air
KLM
Korean Air
LAN
PenAir
Qantas

This is interesting, just wondering how come there is no full-on alliance membership in, say, One World. I would be happy with AY status helping me on Alaska, for instance... But maybe AS is important enough player in its geographic area that it can negotiate interline and codeshare agreements with several big players, and this makes more sense to them than pairing with just one alliance.

Quoting nutsaboutplanes (Reply 3):
They do however interline PAX and Bags on an unlimited basis.   

Yeah well, they do, but bags might get lost. Mine did.... could be BA's fault, too, however.
 
Dash8Driver16
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:49 pm

The reason Alaska is Successful is because it isn't part of Dl or AA. If they were bought out it would kill the intra alaska service as well as the brand loyalty up there thus opening the alaska market to pretty much anyone. Also The route structure of Alaska is very unique and is designed to optimize the aircraft size that they have. The code share with both American and Delta has really enabled Alaska to become international in a sense while not having to put their capital into an international route structure of planes and proving routes. As stated in many different topics AS is a terrible merger partner because of its uniqueness which in turn makes it some hottie that everyone wants to date.
 
ridgid727
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sun Dec 04, 2011 3:06 pm

The only way I ever see AS being absorbed into the likes of DL, AA or UA, would be if a LLC hit Alaska with frequent flights to the lower 48, and lasted long enough to diminish the yields AS enjoys on their flights to the lower 48.

Markair tried it about 20 years ago and failed miserably. The only other LLC that have had any type of success to Alaska, was Morris Air and their 1 or 2 flights a day, and Reno Air also had a flight to ANC. I beleive OC tried it as well, but nothing in those markets ever lasts.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sun Dec 04, 2011 3:19 pm

How far fetched would it be to buy out the Alaska brand but maintain it as a fully independent entity under one holding company. I.e. SkyWest Inc. - Atlantic Southeast Airlines, SkyWest Airlines, IAG - British Airway, Iberia, etc. etc. I think that's the only way a "merger" would work. Synergies can still be realized by consolodating back office stuff like one HQ, IT department, RES system and so on.
What gets measured gets done.
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:09 pm

For many years AA use to be the primary courter of the cutest girl at the dance (AS) Reading this thread it seems DL may have surpassed what AA previously shared with AS. Ironically NW and CO pre-merger also code-shared with AS, those relationship terminated. Of course NW has returned in a since as part of DL.

On the opposite end of the spectrum. US used to service AS BOS flights.

The one negative thing I would mention about AS and their codes shares is the extra $25.00 fee AS charges mileage members to fly on a code-share partners metal. I guess this is part of the "Its complicated" factor. this really needs to go away.

[Edited 2011-12-04 08:13:11]
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Tomassjc
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:56 pm

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 10):
I'd love to see AS hire their own employees in HNL and OGG....


I believe the reason that AS initially did not hire their own staff on the Islands was to make sure that things were going to work out and be profitable before opening spots to their own employees. If things would have failed their would be costs involved of moving all those folks back to the mainland. Well we know now that AS is staying in Hawaii for awhile!

I know that KOA and LIH just switched over from UA to a contract service company, but I think the amount of flights at HNL and OGG justify AS having their own staff there.

Tomas SJC
When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward -Leonardo DaVinci
 
md3
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:25 pm

Quoting ThreeIfByAir (Reply 4):
DCA is handled by DL
ORD is handled by AA

This one's incorrect. Both stations are in-house Alaska employees upstairs. The only two in AS's "Eastern" Region where their own employees are staffed.

Ramp in DCA is Worldwide (WFS) and ORD I don't know.

They do lease gate space from DL in DCA and AA in ORD though.

[Edited 2011-12-04 09:28:06]
 
md3
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:34 pm

Quoting Tomassjc (Reply 29):
I know that KOA and LIH just switched over from UA to a contract service company, but I think the amount of flights at HNL and OGG justify AS having their own staff there.

Tomas SJC

The 3rd party is DGS, for all 4 islands (I believe) going forward.
 
wedgetail737
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:38 pm

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 26):
Markair tried it about 20 years ago and failed miserably. The only other LLC that have had any type of success to Alaska, was Morris Air and their 1 or 2 flights a day, and Reno Air also had a flight to ANC. I beleive OC tried it as well, but nothing in those markets ever lasts.

I believe Morris would continue to be successful today and might be a much larger airline with 737NG's or A320 family of airplanes. I heard that Morris was pretty successful with SEA-ANC, but the absorption into WN nixed that service.

QQ service also fairly successful. I had a friend back at ERAU that became a QQ flight attendant and flew to ANC often. She told me that it was practically oversold every night, but it was only 1X daily (late a night).

I think OC only went into the SEA-ANC market because of the demise of Wien Air Alaska. Wien Air Alaska was the first Alaskan carrier to try and compete with AS back in the mid-1980's. OC obtain some of Wien's airplanes and tried the SEA-ANC route.

I think today AS has pretty much the monopoly on the SEA-ANC route (with the exception of UA/CO) and that nobody is too willing to compete on that route.
 
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Tomassjc
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:46 pm

Quoting md3 (Reply 31):
The 3rd party is DGS, for all 4 islands (I believe) going forward

Thanks md3...couldn't think of who it was without my coffee in hand!

Tom AS SJC
When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward -Leonardo DaVinci
 
united319
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:58 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Thread starter):
Any other stations where they are handled by Mother D or other airlines such as AA?

DFW, IAH, and AUS are all operated by "Mother D". DFW used to be in hours IIRC but I am 100% positive it is not any longer.
It's Time To Fly
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:10 pm

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 28):
Quoting united319 (Reply 34):

This is all very interesting. I always wonder how airlines decide what's outsourced and what's not. As small as ANC is for DL, above and below wing are DL employees. I'm not sure if this is a byproduct of the NW merger or not. Look at SJU for example. Every small but DL below and above but RDU which is one of their larger outstations is DGS below wing..
What gets measured gets done.
 
RobertS975
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:45 pm

In BOS, there are three daily AS flights, two to SEA and one to PDX. All use the same DL gate and the flights are handled by DL personnel... gate agents, ramp workers etc.
 
hiflyeras
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:02 pm

Quoting Dash8Driver16 (Reply 25):
The code share with both American and Delta has really enabled Alaska to become international in a sense while not having to put their capital into an international route structure of planes and proving routes.

This is spot-on...with AS''s code share partners they're able to offer service throughout the world without doing the actual flying themselves. I suppose there's good and bad to this. It'd be nice to see AS serve NE Asia and NW Europe on their own through SEA and/or ANC. Maybe that day will come but I don't see that for another 10 years or so unless they get adventurous. The hugely successful foray into Hawaii might give them the confidence to do something big.
 
dlramp4life
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:17 pm

Quoting md3 (Reply 31):
The 3rd party is DGS, for all 4 islands (I believe) going forward.

From where I have been I have mostly seen DGS servicing AS below wing... But it seems like AS is moving in with DL at most airports and also dumping 3rd party handlers and having DL handle them.
SEA Ramp, wettest place on earth
 
nutsaboutplanes
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:30 pm

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 28):
Ironically NW and CO pre-merger also code-shared with AS, those relationship terminated. Of course NW has returned in a since as part of DL.

I don't believe the NW code share was ever "terminated". This was always one of the strongest relationships that AS had and when DL and NW merged, DL and AS took the opportunity to bolster the relationships with a series of improvements and additional reciprocal benefit improvements. The plans that DL had in SEA were very exciting for AS as they knew that the feed would be primarily generated by AS/QX flying.

The CO relationship soured quickly after the addition of flights from SEA to IAH by AS......It was not long after that we saw an official announcement that the relationship was over although it clearly was never as strong as the AA or NW code share. The demise of the relationship with CO was very similar to the demise of the relationship with HA.....each of the agreements ended at or around the same time that AS announced flights to their stronghold markets.

[Edited 2011-12-04 12:31:12]
American Airlines, US Airways, Alaska Airlines, Northwest Airlines, America West Airlines, USAFR
 
JayinKitsap
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:00 pm

AS is not a whore, it is a Courtesan, a big difference. Whores are out for the quick buck, but Courtesans want their customers very happy today so they come back tomorrow. For example, DL flyers are treated as if they are on DL metal or better) with much better scheduling for the west coast. Also, DL Boston, DC, MIA, and Orlando customers have a direct flight to SEA. Similarly, for AA it makes their FF's happier with more choices in what they see as the system.

I thought AS was picking a fight with NW when it started SEA-HNL, but it allowed NW to always use the 757 instead of the 330, but NW ended up with the last plane to fill up. AS also started SEA-MSP seeming to bring the battle home, instead it appears that AS was adding their metal to the routes to do Code Shares, same with AA. So both AA and DL get serviced excellently, leave with a smile, knowing that the next date will feel just as good. Yes they know that AS has multiple partners and they too leave happy, Yet AS helps her friends do better against the likes of UA, US, and WN.

Working with EK makes sense, there is a decent amount of Oil Patch traffic to the North Slope, and EK would also get its feeds to their flight. Again, being not in an alliance allows this to work.

To me the only merger partner that makes sense for AS is HA, it would be able to extend how they handle the within Alaska market to the interisland market. That is unless Horizon wants to Q400 the islands.
 
cschleic
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:20 pm

As of Sept. 30 2011, AS had about $1.4 billion cash/investments (would have to look and see how those investments held), about $1.4 billion in debt, and the $2.5 billion market cap noted above. I suppose you could buy the entire company, with their cash funding part of it, for $1.1 billion. Or, buy it for the $2.5 billion and use its cash to retire debt, having the company debt free. Of course, there likely are various types of leases and off balance sheet items, too, to consider.

Back to the frequent flyer topic......A while back, I was on a DL flight. A guy sitting across the isle was upset that, in his view, DL employees got upgrades ahead of AS elites on DL flights (he was literally bouncing up and down in his seat). I don't know if this is true. He said he was an AS board member, that the company had had enough of DL not living up to its end of the agreement, and was looking at dropping the DL agreement when it expired. He never gave me his name, but I saw a business card and name on his briefcase. The name wasn't on the AS website board member list, so who knows what the deal was with him. In this case, coach was fairly empty...everyone had their own row, which is better than a full F anyway.

But....thinking about it....do AS elites really get all the benefits on DL flights? I do in terms of preferential seating, free baggage check, etc., but but don't know anything about upgrade frequency. And, really, upgrades aren't the end-all that some people think they are, just nice on a long or packed flight. But is there a problem with with the DL agreement? Is the new AA agreement a sign of something, or just going deeper into the codeshare that already existed with AA?
 
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:45 pm

Quoting DL747400 (Reply 14):
On word describes the relationship that AS has with DL and AS........... Dating.

  

Wrong.

AS is "friends with benefits" with both AA and DL - both carriers are important to AS, with neither being "closer" to AS.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:11 pm

Quoting cschleic (Reply 41):
Back to the frequent flyer topic......A while back, I was on a DL flight. A guy sitting across the isle was upset that, in his view, DL employees got upgrades ahead of AS elites on DL flights (he was literally bouncing up and down in his seat). I don't know if this is true. He said he was an AS board member, that the company had had enough of DL not living up to its end of the agreement, and was looking at dropping the DL agreement when it expired. He never gave me his name, but I saw a business card and name on his briefcase. The name wasn't on the AS website board member list, so who knows what the deal was with him. In this case, coach was fairly empty...everyone had their own row, which is better than a full F anyway.

The guy doesn't know what he's talking about and is full of it. DL employees DOES NOT clear ahead of ANY elite passenger into first wheather they're AF/KL/AM or AS. Those carriers BTW are lumped together under one standby upgrade priority and their actual position on the list varies depending on type of ticket, status, etc. etc. etc. The highest non-rev upgrade code is BELOW everything, including DL's paid standy-by upgrade program for YBMHQK tickets. As for AS "looking at the program"; again, he's full of it. The way AS medallions are handled on DL, including upgrade priority, is the same way DL medallions are handled on AS flights as far as rules go.

Quoting cschleic (Reply 41):
But....thinking about it....do AS elites really get all the benefits on DL flights? I do in terms of preferential seating, free baggage check, etc., but but don't know anything about upgrade frequency.

Your upgrade will be hit and miss. Remember, you ride behind DL DM/PM/GM/FO (Diamond/Plat/Gold/Silver). Conversly, DL medallions ride behind AS elites on AS metal regardless of status. Don't feel too bad, these days, if you are not Diamond on a full-fare ticket, forget about getting an upgrade on a Sun/Mon/Tu/Thurs/Fri. As a non-rev, I get F now and then but its few, far, and in between. My best shot is usually on late departures out of ATL; 2200+ banks are usually open up front with no elites are all elites getting their upgrade the day before departure.

The fact of the matter is, more people are actually paying for F which is a good thing for the company but bad for those that almost never pay for it. I don't want to go into detail about a specific flight number but looking at one of today's flights from MSP to ATL, no one was upgraded. There was one DM on a FULL Y ticket, 3 DMs on regular tickets, 10 PMs on regular tickets, 22 GMs on regular tickets, 14FOs, and and 5 AS Elites...Of course this is very extreem as ATL-MSP/MSP-ATL THE heaviest travelled route in the system for Delta medallion members, but just to give you an idea of how well F sales are doing.

Quoting cschleic (Reply 41):
But is there a problem with with the DL agreement?

No.
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:20 am

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 43):
The guy doesn't know what he's talking about and is full of it. DL employees DOES NOT clear ahead of ANY elite passenger into first wheather they're AF/KL/AM or AS.

Thanks. His story didn't make sense, but I wanted to relate the experience to see if anyone had any interesting observations. As far as reciprocal benefits in the plans, it's good and drives business to Delta.

DL upgrade lists at the gates always look pretty long, so I see what you mean. Interesting point about buying an F ticket. I've done it for a weekend flight leaving FLL, when all the cruise ships come in and the terminal and planes are an absolute madhouse, really horrible. And an F ticket for FLL - PDX sometimes isn't too much more than coach, so it's worth it in that case.
 
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:08 am

Quoting ghifty (Reply 16):
Alaska is one of my favorite airlines, good staff/service and new planes.

Hmmmm the AS plane i was on from LAX-GDL-LAX was awfull,defentily not new planes.I wish DL was on this route still we at least had some drop down video screens the AS 737 had nada!!

Quoting cschleic (Reply 41):
, DL employees got upgrades ahead of AS elites on DL flights

I know we have one the best if not the best flying benefits of all airlines but i dont think we are that good..haha....I really wish other carriers would upgrade employees space available of course like how DL does...DL really should STOP upgrading other carrier employees since we dont get it on there airline..
 
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:05 am

Quoting cschleic (Reply 44):

You're right. I have a trip report somewhere where I flew RDU-ATL. I had to get to Houston that day and non-reving on CO was a no go as everything was full and all of DL's flights to ATL were oversold and I feared that I wouldn't get out so I went ahead and shopped for a ticket the night before. The one-way fare RDU-ATL in F was something like $390 all in and only B, M, and Y fares were left, all at about $297 all in. I went ahead and paid the extra hundred. Granted the flight's only and hr and prob wasn't worth the extra money but what the hell. No upgrades were cleared that day either BTW   There were 2 seats left when I bought mine and someone nabbed the last one between that time and the next day.

Its funny though because some of the FFs get pissed because they don't get complementary upgrades to F going to Hawaii from any city on DL. You have to use a system wide upgrade certificate just like international
What gets measured gets done.
 
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:19 am

Quoting dlflynhayn (Reply 45):
I wish DL was on this route still we at least had some drop down video screens the AS 737 had nada!!

The LAX-GDL market is highly competitive and I guarantee you that the vast majority of customers on that route do not make their purchasing decisions based on carrier-provided IFE.   
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:28 am

Quoting dlflynhayn (Reply 45):

The only OAL employees that can ride F on DL are DCI carriers. OAL default to a Y code when activated on the airport standby list.
What gets measured gets done.
 
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RE: Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers

Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:50 am

Quoting dlflynhayn (Reply 45):
Hmmmm the AS plane i was on from LAX-GDL-LAX was awfull,defentily not new planes.I wish DL was on this route still we at least had some drop down video screens the AS 737 had nada!!

I only fly with AS from SNA-SEA.. so the video screen issue isn't an issue. 
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