gkpetery
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The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:30 am

I'm a fan of the United P.S. Service and I just read on Wiki that they are going to be making significant changes to the fleet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_p.s.

On August, 22, 2011, United Airlines announced the p.s. fleet would be gutted and "reborn" with: Flat-Bed Seats, New Economy Plus Seats, AVOD and Wi-Fi, however these changes include the elimination of United First, making p.s. a two-class service.

Any body know when this is going to start and anything new? Do you think it'll have more Business Class Seats or more Economy Plus seating?

What are the new Economy Plus Seats? I wished they would put personal entertainment systems in their economy like Virgin America... on LAX-JFK.... if they did that, I'll chose United P.S. everytime to LAX - NYC.
 
roseflyer
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:45 am

I think it has been confirmed that they are getting the CO Business First seat, but I don't know if it has been confirmed how many seats they will have. Going from 12F/26J to just 16J seems like a dramatic cut in premium seats especially when the 26J seats are always filled. I wonder if they are trying to reduce upgrades. If that is their goal, I'd see elites defecting to planes headed to EWR where they have a better chance of an upgrade on one of the 737s.

http://www.terminalu.com/travel-news...beds-economy-plus-and-wi-fi/14405/
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codc10
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:44 am

Quoting gkpetery (Thread starter):
I wished they would put personal entertainment systems in their economy like Virgin America... on LAX-JFK.... if they did that, I'll chose United P.S. everytime to LAX - NYC.

This is confirmed. The refurbished p.s. fleet will have AVOD and power nose-to-tail, as well as wifi.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 2):
Going from 12F/26J to just 16J seems like a dramatic cut in premium seats especially when the 26J seats are always filled.

It won't be just 16 seats. I believe the configuration will be 28J, with 16 seats in A zone and 12 seats aft of 2L/R forward of the overwing exits, with Economy Plus and standard Economy to follow. It will be a loss of 10 premium seats but a substantial gain of Y seats.

Upgrades will still be handled the same way as current p.s. service.
 
LAXintl
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:25 am

Future planned two-class configuration is 26/114. Biz class goes until the over-wing exits.

First aircraft planned for second half of 2012, complete in mid 2013.
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ORDJOE
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:35 am

I wonder how this will effect contracts.m it is my understanding a lot of screen actors guild contracts and other studios require the highest class of service, would this cause anymore business to be sent to AA. I thought the PS first still actually sold tickets instead of upgrades from J. I guess it not worth the while.
 
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:49 pm

Quoting ordjoe (Reply 4):

Why do you assume that they will go to AA if they want the highest level of service? With everything that is going on there you will likely see wide bodies go on those routes soon as those 762s are gas guzzlers and it would not surprise me is AA followed a similar route that UA are now taking with the 757.

UA will offer lie flats with AVOD and I am sure the onboard service will if anything be enhanced above the current levels.
 
cruiseshipcrew
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:22 pm

Quoting ordjoe (Reply 4):

They no longer require first class. The new updated business seat will be better than the current first seat.
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STT757
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:45 pm

Changes for PS:

Quote:
When completed in 2013, these aircraft will be in a two-cabin configuration with 26 flat-bed Business Class seats and 114 in Economy. These aircraft will also offer Economy Plus, power ports at every row, on-demand audio and video and Wi-Fi service.

26 Businessfirst flat bed seats
AVOD througout
WIFI
Power ports every row
Economy plus
Regular economy
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seabosdca
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:56 pm

Watch for AA to do exactly the same thing with some of its new A321s as the 762 replacement. Better one up-to-date premium class than two obsolete ones...
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:36 pm

I don't know if AA will.

AA, for all its BK woes, is the hollywood to hollywood leader . . . this will cement that.

Will the 762s stay around? Not long term . . . but there is a reason why AA has a dedicated fleet on these routes.
 
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:36 pm

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 2):
This is confirmed. The refurbished p.s. fleet will have AVOD and power nose-to-tail, as well as wifi.

The current aircraft have WiFi don't they?

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 2):
with Economy Plus and standard Economy to follow.

They are adding Y to PS?? I always thought the absence of Y (while largely ceremonial) added a premium touch to PS.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
First aircraft planned for second half of 2012, complete in mid 2013.

How are they going to deal with aircraft sub-ins during the transition time? Surely with such different configurations on the two aircraft, it isn't just a matter of "oh, got the old config today". Also any ideas of when UA will stop selling F seats on PS? I'd assume it'll be around the time the first 2 class PS birds take to the skies?

I really love UA's PS flights. I think they hit the nail on the head with this one. I'm really hoping the enhancements will keep the big corporate contracts with UA, not loose them to what will be the only 3 class product on this premium heavy route, AA's Flagship service.
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ORDJOE
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:47 pm

I agree the 762 will not be around too much longer, not tomorrow but once these airbuses start getting delivered I am betting the 762 will make their way to cargo use or use in bottom tier airlines in other parts of the world, or possibly VCV or other boneyard. If SAG and other Hollywood contracts are fine with J, then UA has nothing to worry about. I do agree the new J seats are much better than the 1990's F and J seats UA and AA still uses. I am sort of suprised still F is getting cut on UA and possibly AA. I always thought people actually paid the F fare (premium cabins on these transcons do not seem to go on sale very often) which would make it worth their while to offer F.
 
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:10 pm

Quoting sq_ek_freak (Reply 10):
They are adding Y to PS?? I always thought the absence of Y (while largely ceremonial) added a premium touch to PS.

They are adding Y to PS.

26C/ 70Y+ / 44Y
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T5towbar
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:14 pm

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 5):
Why do you assume that they will go to AA if they want the highest level of service? With everything that is going on there you will likely see wide bodies go on those routes soon as those 762s are gas guzzlers and it would not surprise me is AA followed a similar route that UA are now taking with the 757.

With the AA BK, all bets are off on that one.
More than likely, they will follow suit and use a smaller gauge aircraft than the 767-200.
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deltairlines
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:16 pm

Quoting ordjoe (Reply 11):
If SAG and other Hollywood contracts are fine with J, then UA has nothing to worry about. I do agree the new J seats are much better than the 1990's F and J seats UA and AA still uses. I am sort of suprised still F is getting cut on UA and possibly AA. I always thought people actually paid the F fare (premium cabins on these transcons do not seem to go on sale very often) which would make it worth their while to offer F.

SAG was the big one that would pay for the three-cabin F. As noted, as part of the new SAG contract last year, studios were able to win the concession that Business Class was acceptable on transcontinental flights, so a lot of that paid F traffic is now buying J instead.

Now, there are those in the SAG that might still get three-class First (normally A listers with enough clout to make it a demand that would be met), but for the vast majority of people traveling in SAG, it's now J.
 
tommy767
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:19 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 12):

Some obvious pros and cons to all of this:

26C seems too low for a flight like this. DL has 26F on their domestic 757s!

UA is competing with AA the other carrier who has 3 classes of service. I'm not 100 percent sure but it's been rumored here on the forum that the studios require 3 classes of service. With UA going down to 2, what would UA have to do to lure the corporate contracts to fly 2 classes of service? It seems like AA would benefit in this regard.

The idea of adding Y is a good idea but I like how the current UA has Y+ only. It has a certain degree of status to it. As a result, the fares are generally higher to fly in coach on PS than out of EWR. So maybe with the addition of Y- the fares will go down a bit.

The addition of powerports and AVOD is a great thing. When I flew in J on PS last year I thought the PTV they handed out was extremely crappy.
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:28 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 15):
UA is competing with AA the other carrier who has 3 classes of service.

AA is going to be changing many things in CH-11, the 762s will be leaving. I'm pretty sure you're going to see move towards UA with two class Trans-Con.

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 15):
I'm not 100 percent sure but it's been rumored here on the forum that the studios require 3 classes of service

Not anymore;

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 14):
SAG was the big one that would pay for the three-cabin F. As noted, as part of the new SAG contract last year, studios were able to win the concession that Business Class was acceptable on transcontinental flights, so a lot of that paid F traffic is now buying J instead.
Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 15):
The addition of powerports and AVOD is a great thing. When I flew in J on PS last year I thought the PTV they handed out was extremely crappy.

Agreed, I flew with the Wife last year in First on PS JFK-SFO, LAX-JFK. The portable DVR was fine, I just couldn't find anyplace to put it when I was eating.
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toobz
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:30 pm

Quoting sq_ek_freak (Reply 10):
They are adding Y to PS?? I always thought the absence of Y (while largely ceremonial) added a premium touch to PS.

PS aircraft have always had Y. This isn't new.
 
dfambro
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:32 pm

Any word on the Y+ pitch? The current config is 34" pitch vs. 36" pitch on the rest of the fleet. Will the new config have Y+ at the regular 36" pitch?
 
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:34 pm

Quoting toobz (Reply 17):
PS aircraft have always had Y. This isn't new.

No this is new, PS never had regular Y. It was Y+.
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DogsOfWar
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:55 pm

Quoting cruiseshipcrew (Reply 6):

You cant do any worse that what they have now. The P.S. service is so lame its sick. Nasty old first seats and tired flight attendants that serve one drink and hide in the galley the rest of the flight.
 
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:12 pm

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 5):

Why do you assume that they will go to AA if they want the highest level of service? With everything that is going on there you will likely see wide bodies go on those routes soon as those 762s are gas guzzlers and it would not surprise me is AA followed a similar route that UA are now taking with the 757.

Probably will get rid of the 762's but AA's service on this route is far superior to UA.




[quote=DogsOfWar,reply=21]
You cant do any worse that what they have now. The P.S. service is so lame its sick. Nasty old first seats and tired flight attendants that serve one drink and hide in the galley the rest of the flight.

It's pretty pathetic, and the food, compared to AA is a real laugh.
 
roseflyer
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:17 pm

Quoting cruiseshipcrew (Reply 6):

They no longer require first class. The new updated business seat will be better than the current first seat.

The new seats are certainly better for sleeping. However for someone wanting a wide workspace while balancing the portable IFE, eating and a laptop, the old seats were arguably better since there is more storage and they are wider than the new seats. Regardless, upgrading the business does defeat the purpose of the first class. I was always a little confused why they didn't have fully flat seats in F. A 757 will take 72-74'' pitch in the front section with only three rows.

In the end only the non-revs lose. While first was full during the peak times (morning SFO/LAX departures and evening JFK departures), it usually went out with non-revs the rest of the times. Even with the upgrades, it was normal for only 4-6 revenue passengers to be in first class.

Quoting sq_ek_freak (Reply 10):

How are they going to deal with aircraft sub-ins during the transition time? Surely with such different configurations on the two aircraft, it isn't just a matter of "oh, got the old config today". Also any ideas of when UA will stop selling F seats on PS? I'd assume it'll be around the time the first 2 class PS birds take to the skies?

UA currently handles sub-ins by using a 3 class 767. It's a loss of 6 first class seats and overkill in economy, but that's their sub plan.

The P.S. 757 fleet has the lowest utilization in the network. Because timings are well spaced out in the day, it results in pretty bad utilization and tail swaps are pretty easy to be done. The result is that the P.S. 757s are also the most reliable airplanes in the UA network and have the highest dispatch reliability.
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codc10
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:17 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 15):
26C seems too low for a flight like this. DL has 26F on their domestic 757s!

Right, but only 16J on the 75Es which fly JFK-LAX/SFO (their BusinessElite service).

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 15):
I'm not 100 percent sure but it's been rumored here on the forum that the studios require 3 classes of service.

Debunked above. I doubt UA would be removing F if the paid demand was still very high. Plus, the updated seats and rumored improvements to the service will probably make new p.s. Business better than current First.

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 15):

The idea of adding Y is a good idea but I like how the current UA has Y+ only. It has a certain degree of status to it. As a result, the fares are generally higher to fly in coach on PS than out of EWR. So maybe with the addition of Y- the fares will go down a bit.

United Y fares in the market were competitive with other carriers, and they were giving away the E+ product for nothing. With the new configuration, non-status passengers who purchase Y fares will be required to pay up to E+, and its likely that there will be many takers. Increased revenue is the name of the game.

Quoting dfambro (Reply 18):
Any word on the Y+ pitch? The current config is 34" pitch vs. 36" pitch on the rest of the fleet. Will the new config have Y+ at the regular 36" pitch?

I believe the E+ pitch will be the standard 35-36" instead of the watered-down 34" that is currently offered. With 'regular' E+, AVOD and power, it's a clearly better deal for elite members in the back than current p.s..
 
tommy767
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:23 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 16):
Agreed, I flew with the Wife last year in First on PS JFK-SFO, LAX-JFK. The portable DVR was fine, I just couldn't find anyplace to put it when I was eating.

That and the touch screen was worn. I had issues playing with the controls.

Quoting DogsOfWar (Reply 21):
You cant do any worse that what they have now. The P.S. service is so lame its sick. Nasty old first seats and tired flight attendants that serve one drink and hide in the galley the rest of the flight.

that's not true. When I flew in J last year on PS it was easily the most intoxiated I've ever been on a plane. Champaigne before takeoff, wine being topped off every 15 minutes, bailys after dinner around dessert time (Baily's is offered with dessert.) Twas a very festive flight.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 23):
The result is that the P.S. 757s are also the most reliable airplanes in the UA network and have the highest dispatch reliability.

Good to know. Hopefully they won't be retired as early as everyone on here says will happen.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
n515cr
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:30 pm

I will personally miss row 9, arguably one of the best in the domestic fleet!

Quoting ordjoe (Reply 11):
I always thought people actually paid the F fare (premium cabins on these transcons do not seem to go on sale very often) which would make it worth their while to offer F.

It'll be interesting to see how this affects those booking flights to JFK-LAX/SFO-Asia/Oz. Several of the p.s. flights (840 and 870, I think) are sold as such. So, if someone wants to book an F ticket for the TPAC flight, will ua.com be able to handle this? I've seen the website fumble C vs F searches so many times.
 
codc10
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:34 pm

Quoting n515cr (Reply 26):
It'll be interesting to see how this affects those booking flights to JFK-LAX/SFO-Asia/Oz. Several of the p.s. flights (840 and 870, I think) are sold as such. So, if someone wants to book an F ticket for the TPAC flight, will ua.com be able to handle this? I've seen the website fumble C vs F searches so many times.

No different than a passenger wishing to buy a UA F ticket BOS-SFO-PVG when BOS-SFO is only two-class service.

Even though the cabin may be marketed as Business, the fact is that it will be a better experience than both current C/F products. I doubt people will book away from UA simply because the cabin isn't called "First".
 
sq_ek_freak
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:43 pm

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 23):
UA currently handles sub-ins by using a 3 class 767. It's a loss of 6 first class seats and overkill in economy, but that's their sub plan.

Yes I've seen this, usually on the SFO flights but not on the LAX flights. I was on an LAX that got subbed out and we got a two class 757 instead with the nasty domestic First but with PS service. Flight was (unusually) empty, and combined Business and First passengers was something like 6 or 7, so UA just used the normal F cabin for both F and J pax. No personal players, cramp legroom (comparatively so) and what was the worst service from the crew I have ever received on PS flights. No compensation offered either.

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 25):
that's not true. When I flew in J last year on PS it was easily the most intoxiated I've ever been on a plane. Champaigne before takeoff, wine being topped off every 15 minutes, bailys after dinner around dessert time (Baily's is offered with dessert.) Twas a very festive flight.

Now this is my usual experience with them, as recent as early October when I was on leave. They are my choice to fly domestic within the US, get to JFK then fly PS over to the west coast. Always leave the plane very happy, full and drunk. Usually with a bottle or a little something from the crew as well  
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jfklganyc
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:44 pm

"AA is going to be changing many things in CH-11, the 762s will be leaving. I'm pretty sure you're going to see move towards UA with two class Trans-Con."

Says who? You?

Just because UA went to narrow bodies and then started charging for food and now is eliminating F on JFK transcons, doesn't mean AA will.

JFK-LAX/SFO is like JFK-LHR . . . it is the backbone of the JFK operation and puts them atop the pecking order for premium traffic on these important routes.

UA, downsized their planes on these 2 routes when they abandoned any P2P flying out of JFK, LGA, and EWR during and just after BK a few years ago. They were right sizing their NYC operation for a smaller airline with importance placed on hubs in IAD, ORD, DEN, LAX, and SFO. They still felt it was necessary to maintain a premium product on these important transcon routes, hence low density 757 product we see today.

Now, UA has merged with CO . . . a company that has shown a constant disdain for any airport east of the Hudson in NYC. This is another step backward for UA on this route and will utimately blend them closer with Delta and further from AA. Add in strong competition from B6 and VX for all those Y seats and you have UA moving into murky waters.
 
codc10
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:03 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 29):
Now, UA has merged with CO . . . a company that has shown a constant disdain for any airport east of the Hudson in NYC. This is another step backward for UA on this route and will utimately blend them closer with Delta and further from AA. Add in strong competition from B6 and VX for all those Y seats and you have UA moving into murky waters.

I don't think it's 'disdain' at all. LGA was a reasonably strong outstation for CO with frequent flights to the other hubs and a Presidents Club. Any other service out of LGA would be duplicative of existing flying out of EWR and be in direct competition with other carriers. At JFK, most domestic markets (besides LAX/SFO) are low-yielding due to downward pricing pressure from JetBlue, and when CO operated JFK-IAH/CLE, they were typically priced at a substantial discount to LGA/EWR-IAH/CLE.

What's wrong with sticking to your strengths?

As for p.s., I don't see how it's a step backward at all. Once completed, the retrofits will deliver:

- the best premium cabin between JFK-LAX/SFO with 100% flat-bed seating
- additional capacity in the market
- an improved Y product
- class-leading entertainment

The 757 platform permits lower trip costs and a healthier break-even load factor than the 762. If anything, this shows a renewed commitment to the market, instead of letting the fading p.s. product languish amidst stiffer competition than ever.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:04 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 29):
Just because UA went to narrow bodies and then started charging for food and now is eliminating F on JFK transcons, doesn't mean AA will.

Sure it does, if AA wants to survive in the premium transcon market.

UA's J will now be superior to AA's F, let alone its J. AA will have to introduce a competitive J product. Once it does, there is no point in having F. You won't sell enough international F-style seats on a 5-hour daytime flight to permanently waste space on them.

And AA can't realistically keep the widebodies. The 762 is already too big for the market, and at a serious cost disadvantage to boot. Larger widebodies will just worsen the cost gap and flood the market with capacity. The future in this market is with large narrowbodies. And when AA gets its A321 product in place, it will have a nice cost advantage over UA's 752 product.
 
tommy767
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:08 pm

Quoting sq_ek_freak (Reply 28):
Now this is my usual experience with them, as recent as early October when I was on leave. They are my choice to fly domestic within the US, get to JFK then fly PS over to the west coast. Always leave the plane very happy, full and drunk. Usually with a bottle or a little something from the crew as well

Oh nice! Well then they should rename it from "premium service" to "positively s***faced"

Quoting sq_ek_freak (Reply 28):
Yes I've seen this, usually on the SFO flights but not on the LAX flights. I was on an LAX that got subbed out and we got a two class 757 instead with the nasty domestic First but with PS service. Flight was (unusually) empty, and combined Business and First passengers was something like 6 or 7, so UA just used the normal F cabin for both F and J pax. No personal players, cramp legroom (comparatively so) and what was the worst service from the crew I have ever received on PS flights. No compensation offered either.

Sounds bad. How was the meal?
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mbm3
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:13 pm

It is also not out of the question for PS service to be added from SFO/LAX to EWR in support of the TATL flights.
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STT757
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:14 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 25):
Good to know. Hopefully they won't be retired as early as everyone on here says will happen.

These PS aircraft would not be getting the upgrades if they were leaving the fleet, it's the other PMUA 757s that will be leaving.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 29):
Says who? You?

Fact:

AA is going to change as a result of filling CH-11, you can argue degrees of change but not much else.

Fact:

The 762 will leave their fleet.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
toobz
Posts: 632
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:33 am

RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:21 pm

Quoting sq_ek_freak (Reply 20):
Quoting STT757 (Reply 19):
Quoting toobz (Reply 17):
PS aircraft have always had Y. This isn't new.

No this is new, PS never had regular Y. It was Y+.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 19):
No this is new, PS never had regular Y. It was Y+.

YIKES...my bad. having flown the route a few times i shouldve known that!! I wasnt awake obviously when I WROTE THAT :- /
aplogies to SQ  
 
tommy767
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:22 pm

Quoting mbm3 (Reply 33):
It is also not out of the question for PS service to be added from SFO/LAX to EWR in support of the TATL flights.

UA metal will be back up to 4x daily on the SFO-EWR for next spring and summer. Hopefully a 763 or 777 will be on the route. There is already 3-4 757s a day on the route.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
roseflyer
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:31 pm

Quoting sq_ek_freak (Reply 28):
Yes I've seen this, usually on the SFO flights but not on the LAX flights. I was on an LAX that got subbed out and we got a two class 757 instead with the nasty domestic First but with PS service. Flight was (unusually) empty, and combined Business and First passengers was something like 6 or 7, so UA just used the normal F cabin for both F and J pax. No personal players, cramp legroom (comparatively so) and what was the worst service from the crew I have ever received on PS flights. No compensation offered either.

That seems odd. They are supposed to offer downgraded service compensation if you were in F. Not sure about J however.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 29):
"AA is going to be changing many things in CH-11, the 762s will be leaving. I'm pretty sure you're going to see move towards UA with two class Trans-Con."

I think UA may be trying to get AA to shed its F as well. This move happened in August before the bankruptcy, but the fact that they are going through bankruptcy and their prime competitor is abandoning 3 class might result in AA deciding to follow UA's lead.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
Carfield
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:28 pm

About United p.s. service, I really think its current F product has significantly watered down from the inaugural flight. Only one F/A was serving the whole F cabin and the product will unfortunately be downgraded significantly. I flew AA, DL, and UA, and actually like Delta's product the best, with a nice reclining seat (not sliding like UA p.s. F) with updated AVOD PTV, power outlet, and a proper four course dinner, and international style amenity kit. AA American flagship service is very nice and the F/As are friendlier and more experienced, but the onboard products are really out dated. UA p.s. used to be great, but throughout the last few years, things started to get cut left and right, and now the product is just sad to look at. I am really glad to hear the CO finally decides to give it a major revamp. I am not surprised to see F being eliminated, as consistent with Continental's domestic products. I really hope that the new UA J will feature the same mini-BusinessFirst service on Continental's current transcontinental service (warmed mixed nuts, appetizer, salad bowl, entree plasted individually in galley, and full ice cream sundae cart). The current meal service is lacking even in F.

honestly my faith on Jeff S. is not much, but one can be hopeful. Most importantly, it is to maintain the level of service even after its launch - maintain the seats properly. As someone points out, their utilization rate is lower and I hope that means there is more time to clean the plane (wishful thinking...). United's major issue (most US airlines) is the consistency and delivering a reliable product. I hope this new p.s launch won't be the same as last time - all bling in the beginning and then a dive to the bottom.

Carfield
 
sq_ek_freak
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:46 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 32):
Oh nice! Well then they should rename it from "premium service" to "positively s***faced"

Ha! That might be mildly accurate  
Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 32):
Sounds bad. How was the meal?

Meal was the standard F breakfast. It was fine.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 37):
That seems odd. They are supposed to offer downgraded service compensation if you were in F. Not sure about J however.

I was in J so I can't speak to that. All I can say was that I was really disappointed with that flight. There were two crew in F, a guy who was serving and a lady in the galley. Neither cracked a smile all flight, and the lady was borderline rude when she was in the cabin helping with clean up.
Keep Discovering
 
laca773
Posts: 2033
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:06 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 8):
Watch for AA to do exactly the same thing with some of its new A321s as the 762 replacement. Better one up-to-date premium class than two obsolete ones...


Most g

I think AA will make changes to this prior to receiving any A321s. That's a couple of years from now.

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 15):

UA is competing with AA the other carrier who has 3 classes of service. I'm not 100 percent sure but it's been rumored here on the forum that the studios require 3 classes of service. With UA going down to 2, what would UA have to do to lure the corporate contracts to fly 2 classes of service? It seems like AA would benefit in this regard.

The mandatory F for SAG and rest is no longer required for the egomaniacs. They get J. If they don't like it, I guess they can fly who they choose too.

Quoting DLMD90 (Reply 22):

It's pretty pathetic, and the food, compared to AA is a real laugh.

UA's food has always been bad. Apparently, PMCO catering is going to be used instead of the slop UA has served for many years in all classes.
 
dartland
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:06 pm

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 23):
The P.S. 757 fleet has the lowest utilization in the network. Because timings are well spaced out in the day, it results in pretty bad utilization and tail swaps are pretty easy to be done. The result is that the P.S. 757s are also the most reliable airplanes in the UA network and have the highest dispatch reliability.

Indeed, and I LOVE it. In probably 30+ p.s. flights in 2011, I don't think we were delayed due to inbound aircraft even once.


Also -- what is the obsession with lie flat seats for transcon? Not sure it makes sense. Most people would say that lie flat are amazing for sleeping, but inferior to recliners for awake time. If you look at the p.s. schedule -- only 1 flight a day each from LAX and SFO are red-eyes -- the rest are awake-flights (with the possible exception of the 7 and 8pm westbound departures, where some people sleep and some don't).

It seems to me that an airline could create a pretty great p.s. / transcon service without lie flat.

For trans-atlantic, it makes more sense because 50% of flights are red-eyes. But for p.s., it's more like 20%.

Thoughts?
 
UAL777UK
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:14 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 29):
Just because UA went to narrow bodies and then started charging for food and now is eliminating F on JFK transcons, doesn't mean AA will.

You want to put money on that?

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 29):
JFK-LAX/SFO is like JFK-LHR . . . it is the backbone of the JFK operation and puts them atop the pecking order for premium traffic on these important routes.

And top of yields as well?
 
gigneil
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:54 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 29):
Says who?

Says Horton. In every interview he's taken since the plane order.

NS
 
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seabosdca
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:47 pm

Quoting laca773 (Reply 40):
I think AA will make changes to this prior to receiving any A321s. That's a couple of years from now.

You may very well be right, but I doubt such changes would involve refitting any aircraft. They'd more likely retire some (half?) of the 762s and replace them temporarily with TATL-configured 752s. That would cut premium seats a bit but reduce costs nicely for the moment.

I don't see the sense in refitting old 752s for this mission (which requires a specialized configuration) when you have new A321s coming that can be equipped with a spanking-new product from soup to nuts and fly the mission cheaper as well.
 
LAXintl
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:05 am

Quoting sq_ek_freak (Reply 10):
How are they going to deal with aircraft sub-ins during the transition time? Surely with such different configurations on the two aircraft, it isn't just a matter of "oh, got the old config today". Also any ideas of when UA will stop selling F seats on PS? I'd assume it'll be around the time the first 2 class PS birds take to the skies?

For a certain period there will be two product flying. Really no different then today with IPTE vs non IPTE widebodies or even when p.s. rolled out first and the 3-class aircraft were mixed in with regular 757s and 767s.

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 14):
As noted, as part of the new SAG contract last year, studios were able to win the concession that Business Class was acceptable on transcontinental flights, so a lot of that paid F traffic is now buying J instead.

And not just SAG. The directors guild and another union which escapes my mind at the moment also no longer require F.

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 15):
26C seems too low for a flight like this. DL has 26F on their domestic 757s!

But remember these 26 new seats will take up alot of real estate on the plane.

Quoting DogsOfWar (Reply 21):
The P.S. service is so lame its sick. Nasty old first seats and tired flight attendants that serve one drink and hide in the galley the rest of the flight.

While you can deride FA service if you wish, I would hardly call the seats nasty. They are the same ones as the SQ Space Bed. They have received new coverings and cushions in recent years. Best transcon in America imo.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 23):
The P.S. 757 fleet has the lowest utilization in the network. Because timings are well spaced out in the day, it results in pretty bad utilization and tail swaps are pretty easy to be done.

?? Not sure where you get such an assumption.

Fleet might have lower cycles due nature of flying, however utilization block hours is high compared to peers.

For example the 13 strong p.s. fleet averages 11:03hrs daily, while the non-etops 757 fleet does 10:08hr/day.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 34):
These PS aircraft would not be getting the upgrades if they were leaving the fleet, it's the other PMUA 757s that will be leaving.

As I recall, 1 or 2 p.s. are birds are part of the 10+ 757 lease-returns leaving the fleet in the next 18-mos

Quoting dartland (Reply 41):
Indeed, and I LOVE it. In probably 30+ p.s. flights in 2011, I don't think we were delayed due to inbound aircraft even once.

I guess you got lucky. I've had a good dozen delays due to late aircraft.

When things go wrong at JFK, or SFO the entire days p.s. schedule can fall apart quickly as its such a small subfleet.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 43):
Says Horton. In every interview he's taken since the plane order.

   Matter of fact the day of the order, he stated in a CNBC interview new ordered aircraft would be placed on the carriers premium transcon markets.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
N62NA
Posts: 4006
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:05 am

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 29):
Now, UA has merged with CO . . . a company that has shown a constant disdain for any airport east of the Hudson in NYC

Hehehe, very good choice of a words. I'll have to remember that next time we're talking about AA and DL and their constant disdain for EWR.  
 
roseflyer
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:53 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 45):

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 23):
The P.S. 757 fleet has the lowest utilization in the network. Because timings are well spaced out in the day, it results in pretty bad utilization and tail swaps are pretty easy to be done.

?? Not sure where you get such an assumption.

Fleet might have lower cycles due nature of flying, however utilization block hours is high compared to peers.

For example the 13 strong p.s. fleet averages 11:03hrs daily, while the non-etops 757 fleet does 10:08hr/day.

I could have rephrased that. It has the most time for maintenance. JFK, SFO & LAX are all maintenance bases and with just 2 flights per day, there is a lot of ground time.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
N1120A
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:14 am

Quoting ordjoe (Reply 4):
I wonder how this will effect contracts.m it is my understanding a lot of screen actors guild contracts and other studios require the highest class of service, would this cause anymore business to be sent to AA. I thought the PS first still actually sold tickets instead of upgrades from J. I guess it not worth the while.

SAG, DGA and AFTRA all allow for C/J on transcon flights now. Remember that non-LAX/SFO-JFK flights have been domestic F for years, and SAG/DGA/AFTRA have all accepted such flights.

Quoting toobz (Reply 17):
PS aircraft have always had Y. This isn't new.

They have always had E+ throughout. Or, fairly close to it. 34" pitch.

Quoting DogsOfWar (Reply 21):
Nasty old first seats

Nasty? Come one now. They are the best domestic seats in the sky.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 40):
UA's food has always been bad. Apparently, PMCO catering is going to be used instead of the slop UA has served for many years in all classes.

Yeah, I disagree that the heart attacks on a plate that PMCO serves are "better"

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 45):
And not just SAG. The directors guild and another union which escapes my mind at the moment also no longer require F.

AFTRA. Basically, all the major entertainment unions will take C/J where available.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 45):
But remember these 26 new seats will take up alot of real estate on the plane.

Exactly. These are not domestic F seats with moderate (though still acceptable) recline. They are fully flat beds. Indeed, I believe these will be the same seats as on the TATL 757s CO flies.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
tommy767
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:15 am

Quoting N62NA (Reply 46):

Hehehe, very good choice of a words. I'll have to remember that next time we're talking about AA and DL and their constant disdain for EWR.

Well to be fair CO showed a lot of disdain to almost all airports that weren't IAH or EWR (yes, I'll even throw CLE under the bus in this sense)  
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
codc10
Posts: 1760
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RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:41 am

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 49):
Well to be fair CO showed a lot of disdain to almost all airports that weren't IAH or EWR (yes, I'll even throw CLE under the bus in this sense)  

I don't get it. An airline is not a person. How can a corporation show disdain for anything?