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Alsatian
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Air France Unveils NCE And TLS Bases

Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:19 pm

More details to come but for now new routes from Toulouse are :

Malaga : 3 flights per week
Athens : 4
Brussels : 5
Geneva : 5
Hamburg : 5
Malta : 2
Naples : 2
Prag : 5
Sévilla : 4
Berlin : 4
Venice : 3
Vienna : 4
Casablanca : 3
Marrakech: 2
Istanbul : 3
Tunis :4

In french :

http://www.tourmag.com/Bases-de-prov...ns-de-Toulouse-et-Nice_a48445.html

Dennis
Ok I am French but I am not on strike
 
leftyboarder
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Air France Unveils NCE And TLS Bases

Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:26 pm

Wow, surprised to see IST yet again on this list, after their MRS launch. Head on with TK this time though.
 
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Alsatian
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Air France Unveils NCE And TLS Bases

Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:31 pm

From Nice, AF will launch 6 new destinations, including Barcelona, Istanbul and Tel Aviv.

http://corporate.airfrance.com/en/pr...u-depart-de-nice-et-de-toulouse-1/
Ok I am French but I am not on strike
 
runway23
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Air France Unveils NCE And TLS Bases

Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:38 pm

Quoting Alsatian (Reply 2):
From Nice, AF will launch 6 new destinations, including Barcelona, Istanbul and Tel Aviv.

http://corporate.airfrance.com/en/pr...se-1/

Somewhat surprising that AF is neglecting NCE compared to MRS/TLS, when you consider that NCE is probably the destination the most exposed to LCCs in France.

Also quite surprising to see the absence of serving London from all these bases. It seems that AF is avoiding head on confrontation with BA and LX on some routes.
 
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Alsatian
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Air France Unveils NCE And TLS Bases

Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:22 pm

More elements are coming on airfrance website.

The 6 new desitnations out of Nice are :

Athens
Barcelona
Istanbul
Naples
Venice
Tel Aviv

Days of operation of the Toulouse new routes :

ATH 1 3 6 7
TXL 3 5 6 7
BRU 1 3 5 6 7
CMN 1 4 6
GVA 1 2 3 4 5
HAM 1 2 3 5 6
IST 2 4 6
AGP 2 4 6
MLA 6 7
RAK 6 7
NAP 4 6
PRG 1 3 5 6 7
SVQ 1 3 5 7
TUN 2 4 6 7
VCE 2 4 7
VIE 2 5 6 7

In addition, some routes see capacity increase, TLS- SXB for example : from 18 flights per week with Embraer 145 currently to 12 flights with A319/320.

I will try to do a summary table of all these changes asap ( or someone is already trying to do it )

Dennis
Ok I am French but I am not on strike
 
runway23
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Air France Unveils NCE And TLS Bases

Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:32 pm

Quoting Alsatian (Reply 4):
In addition, some routes see capacity increase, TLS- SXB for example : from 18 flights per week with Embraer 145 currently to 12 flights with A319/320.

Some of the scheduled departure times and days make the routes somewhat laughable.

Why schedule TLS-GVA daily, except during weekends with a mid-morning departure from TLS? This will essentially make their route irrelevant to many people.

The same can be said with Venice, where a Friday departure is missing.

Somehow it seems that AF has not given much practical thought to their timetable.
 
dennys
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Air France Unveils NCE And TLS Bases

Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:56 pm

Concerning Nice , i wished it were like in the 1968 -69 a an A343 flying NYC NIce // Nice TLV and vv code shared with Delta
 
varig md-11
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Air France Unveils NCE And TLS Bases

Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:58 pm

Merci Alsatian for the news

I sort of understand the efforts and new routes out of TLS but TLS-MLA?
who wants to go to MLA in the first place and from TLS in particular?
is there an A component factory there?
I see this one not lasting for long

A bit disapointed that NCE is not more developped....
TLV should work I guess but where is BEY??
and IST? TK is on the line already and LX has very good prices to IST out of NCE....sounds like a bloodbath for someone
AF TW AA NW DL UA CO BA U2 TP UX LH SK AZ MP KL SN VY HV LS SS TK SQ PC RG IW SE LI TN
 
runway23
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Air France Unveils NCE And TLS Bases

Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:30 pm

Quoting varig md-11 (Reply 7):
A bit disapointed that NCE is not more developped....
TLV should work I guess but where is BEY??
and IST? TK is on the line already and LX has very good prices to IST out of NCE....sounds like a bloodbath for someone

Indeed BEY would have made a lot more sense, my knowledge of Jewish retuals is quite limited, but doesn't their schedule from Nice on Saturdays fall right during shabbat ? Seems to proove once again that they really have a poor schedule analysis.

AF4384 NCE 14:45-19:20 TLV 6
AF4385 TLV 20:30-23:45 NCE 6

Let's also note that on NCE-BCN, AF is now up against Iberia, Spanair and easyJet. That's a lot of competition.

I'm somewhat surprised AF didn't increase their capacity on domestic routes from NCE, where the TGV is not present yet. LIL, SXB, ETZ, MLH with bigger gauge aircraft would have made more sense than some of their new routes.
 
caribb
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Air France Unveils NCE And TLS Bases

Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:35 pm

Would be nice to see Air France starting sending some long hauls from Nice & Toulouse to YUL. Lyon could be another potential city for North American service. I've never understood why France has never been opened up by it's own National carrier. Why funnel everything through Paris? Thankfully Air Transat is able to offer the direct flight alternatives.
 
SmokinL1011
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Air France Unveils NCE And TLS Bases

Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:20 pm

Quoting runway23 (Reply 8):
my knowledge of Jewish retuals is quite limited, but doesn't their schedule from Nice on Saturdays fall right during shabbat ?



Most Israelis are secular and there isn't a huge orthodox Jewish community in the Nice area, plus, for leisure travelers flying in or out of TLV on shabbat there is the big benefit of LY not operating and the airport being much less busy.

I'm moving to Nice next year and I hope the TLV service is a success and keeps a shabbat schedule for easy flights to one of my favourite cities.
 
Pe@rson
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Air France Unveils NCE And TLS Bases

Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:27 pm

Quoting runway23 (Reply 8):
Indeed BEY would have made a lot more sense

An A.netter's beliefs against AF's analysis. Hmm.  
Quoting runway23 (Reply 8):
Seems to proove once again that they really have a poor schedule analysis.

Hmm... so you know more than AF?  
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
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shamrock604
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Air France Unveils NCE And TLS Bases

Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:46 pm

Quoting runway23 (Reply 3):
Also quite surprising to see the absence of serving London from all these bases. It seems that AF is avoiding head on confrontation with BA and LX on some routes.

They are completely avoiding not just London, but the whole UK, and Ireland - in others staying well clear of the "home turf" of Europe's two major LCC's.

It seems designed to prevent EZY and FR from spreading their networks from France, but staying away from direct competition on their home routes to avoid starting a major commercial battle.

AF is now basically emulating the Aerlingus model of competing with the low costs - remain an airline with a predominantly "service" ethic, but run like a loco.
 
AF777300ER
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Air France Unveils NCE And TLS Bases

Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:01 pm

Really disappointing for NCE, no new international destinations in fact for the airport, and some domestic destinations like BOD from NCE are unchanged (still 2 Embraer 170 daily) when Easyjet arrives on the line with Airbus A319 three or four times weekly...
Next trip : BOD - TFS - LPA - ACE - TFN - BOD - YUL - BOD - CDG - HAN - HKG - SGN - REP - SGN - SIN - SGN - CDG - BOD
 
jpyvr
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Air France Unveils NCE And TLS Bases

Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:06 pm

Quoting varig md-11 (Reply 7):
who wants to go to MLA in the first place

I'm not sure why it was necessary to add an opinion about the value or non-value of traveling to Malta. I'm not Maltese, nor do I have Maltese relatives or ancestry, but I did live there for a year around 2005. I found the people charming and welcoming, and most of the (many thousands) of visitors that I spoke to enjoyed their visit very much.

Whether there is a valid commercial reason for AF to fly from TLS to MLA seems to me to be a valid point of discussion on this forum, but snide side-comments seem out of place to me.
 
cuban8
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Air France Unveils NCE And TLS Bases

Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:23 pm

I didn't know there was that much potential out of TLS, but I guess I have not enough insight to have an educated thought on that particular airport and region.

When it comes to Nice, I would have expected a flight to Moscow and at least one or two Scandinavian destinations. I also think that AF has nothing to gain on the Istanbul route against TK.
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cedars747
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Air France Unveils NCE And TLS Bases

Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:15 pm

Quoting varig md-11 (Reply 7):
TLV should work I guess but where is BEY??
Quoting runway23 (Reply 8):
Indeed BEY would have made a lot more sense

BEY is already served twice from NCE with A320
Tengo una pasion por la aviacion !لدي شغف للطيران !I have a passion for aviation !Jeg har en lidenskap for luftfart!j'ai
 
mozart
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Air France Unveils NCE And TLS Bases

Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:48 pm

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 12):
AF is now basically emulating the Aerlingus model of competing with the low costs - remain an airline with a predominantly "service" ethic, but run like a loco.

...and we all know how well that did or didn't work.
 
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shamrock604
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Air France Unveils NCE And TLS Bases

Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:58 pm

Quoting mozart (Reply 17):

Well, it obviously did work.... EI expanded hugely, regained profitability quickly, and things stayed that way until the recent recession.

EI implemented some changes, focused on yield instead of volume, but kept it's service model - and returned to profit.
 
IanatSTN
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Air France Unveils NCE And TLS Bases

Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:44 am

http://blog.easyjet.com/easyjet-to-o...es-in-france-at-nice-and-toulouse/

It seems everyone wants a piece of NCE and TLS. It will be interesting to see how the two fair in the next year or so. Hardly large commitment from EZY with 2 aircraft at each, but certainly a foundation to build upon.
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Alsatian
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Air France Unveils NCE And TLS Bases

Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:48 am

Quoting IanatSTN (Reply 19):
It seems everyone wants a piece of NCE and TLS

Don' t forget that Vueling has a base at Toulouse since april. It smells the bloodbath.
Ok I am French but I am not on strike
 
varig md-11
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Air France Unveils NCE And TLS Bases

Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:42 am

Quoting jpyvr (Reply 14):
I'm not sure why it was necessary to add an opinion about the value or non-value of traveling to Malta. I'm not Maltese, nor do I have Maltese relatives or ancestry, but I did live there for a year around 2005. I found the people charming and welcoming, and most of the (many thousands) of visitors that I spoke to enjoyed their visit very much.

Whether there is a valid commercial reason for AF to fly from TLS to MLA seems to me to be a valid point of discussion on this forum, but snide side-comments seem out of place to me.

Sorry, but you obviously put more passion in it than I intended to....
I meant: from TLS who needs to go to MLA to do what, for what purpose?
TLS is in the South just between the Ocean and Mediterranean, close to BCN, so people take their cars to have a break rather than flying to MLA: this destination choice is rather odd to me knowing very well people from TLS

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 11):
An A.netter's beliefs against AF's analysis. Hmm.
Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 11):
Hmm... so you know more than AF?

Oh please!!! if AF was so good they would have made a profit in the last 3 years.....and AF has not the reputation of "knowing" a lot of things at the moment (cf. the C class seats, the horrific Y 10 abreast etc etc)
AF TW AA NW DL UA CO BA U2 TP UX LH SK AZ MP KL SN VY HV LS SS TK SQ PC RG IW SE LI TN
 
LifelinerOne
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Air France Unveils NCE And TLS Bases

Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:47 am

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 12):
They are completely avoiding not just London, but the whole UK, and Ireland - in others staying well clear of the "home turf" of Europe's two major LCC's.

I suspect to see a step-up from daughter CityJet to commence in 2012... The UK is often LCC territory. AF mainline has a cost structure that doesn't have much room to compete on price with those airlines. CityJet on the other hand is a much leaner organisation who probably can.

Cheers!   
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r2rho
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RE: Air France Unveils NCE And TLS Bases

Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:55 pm

This is great news, particularly TLS was in my opinion (and U2 & VY's as well) an underserved market. It's good to see AF starting to unlock the potential of the French regions rather than having everyone go through CDG. It took U2's rapid expansion in France to make them realize this, but better late than never. Any idea how many a/c will be based at each?

The expansion seems to be more oriented towards adding a large number of destinations than having lots of frequencies. Makes sense, as this is a first step, and what people in the French regions miss most is not frequency (of which they have plenty through CDG), but direct connections. Also, you can't fill a multiple daily A319 / A320 on many of these destinations. If things go well, I could see a frequency increase in the future.

Here is a nice pdf with more details & route maps in French:
http://corporate.airfrance.com/filea...de_presse/bases_province_02-fr.pdf

Quoting Alsatian (Reply 20):
Don' t forget that Vueling has a base at Toulouse since april. It smells the bloodbath.

Indeed, some of these routes are a direct assault on VY & U2 who have just set up base there, but also others:

ATH 1 3 6 7 completely new
TXL 3 5 6 7 completely new
BRU 1 3 5 6 7 served by U2
CMN 1 4 6 served by Royal Air Maroc & Jet4you
GVA 1 2 3 4 5 served by U2
HAM 1 2 3 5 6 return of a former short-lived CityJet flight
IST 2 4 6 served by TK
AGP 2 4 6 served by VY
MLA 6 7 was once served by Air Malta
RAK 6 7 served by Royal Air Maroc & Jet4you
NAP 4 6 completely new
PRG 1 3 5 6 7 served by VY
SVQ 1 3 5 7 served by IB
TUN 2 4 6 7 served by Tunisair
VCE 2 4 7 served by U2 & VY
VIE 2 5 6 7 completely new

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