cchan
Topic Author
Posts: 952
Joined: Sat May 17, 2003 8:54 pm

New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:53 pm

Welcome to New Zealand Aviation Thread 107.

In New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 106 (by cchan Nov 15 2011 in Civil Aviation) we discussed:

- ZK-OJR enters service
- Seat to Suit marketing in NZ's domestic services
- Is NZ a LCC?
- Career of Mr Fyfe
- NZ's lost opportunities due to late 789 delivery
- Usual moaning of Airpoints programme in almost every thread
- Is the OneSmart function in the new Airpoints card useful?
- NZ and possible government asset sales
- Does NZ management has brains and balls?
- NZ's traffic rights
- NZ's cost based compared to other airlines

Other current threads related to New Zealand aviation:

NZ Erebus Crash Anniversary Today (by lmml 14/32 Nov 28 2011 in Civil Aviation)
 
cchan
Topic Author
Posts: 952
Joined: Sat May 17, 2003 8:54 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:02 pm

Quoting BlackLabel (Reply 237):
I agree that the new OneSmart thing is a gimmick with extremely limited value - it makes me wonder how much cost (time, money, marketing, IT effort, etc) went into it that could have been used in other ways to actually make the airline and/or passenger life better. I'm also very curious where they got the market research information that indicates this is something passengers actually want.

I wish that NZ would focus on being a good airline, rather than a series of expensive and poorly thought out (and oft-reversed!) gimmicks.

The OneSmart thing would be a good idea if there aren't similar cards already around. We don't know who is bearing most of the cost in developing this, it could be NZ or Bank of New Zealand or some other parties. If NZ isn't bearing the development costs, then there is little harm in doing it.
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:49 pm

I hear NZ is talking about terminal move at LAX come 2013.

With completion of renovations at TBIT they are eyeing a move over. From cost perspective while per passenger charges might ultimately be higher at the new TBIT they likely do get nice offsets such no longer needing to lease and run their own premium lounge by utilizing the Star Alliance facility instead, plus probably some efficiency with ground handling as NZs vendor is primarily based out of TBIT and could likely cross utilize staff, equipment and ticket counters better then dedicating folks to go over to T-2 and handle NZ exclusively as done today.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
BlackLabel
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:17 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:07 pm

Quoting cchan (Reply 1):
The OneSmart thing would be a good idea if there aren't similar cards already around. We don't know who is bearing most of the cost in developing this, it could be NZ or Bank of New Zealand or some other parties. If NZ isn't bearing the development costs, then there is little harm in doing it.

I agree it could be NZ or BNZ (or both), but NZ seems to be the primary marketer, combined with infrastructure development costs on the Airpoints side, is money that could be better spent elsewhere.
 
xiaotung
Posts: 800
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:58 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:34 pm

Quoting BlackLabel (Reply 3):
I agree it could be NZ or BNZ (or both), but NZ seems to be the primary marketer, combined with infrastructure development costs on the Airpoints side, is money that could be better spent elsewhere.

Add ourairnz.co.nz to the list. Just how many people are interested in that site? I wouldn't visit it once every 3 months. And also seems they have given up adding new contents in there as well.
 
User avatar
NZ107
Posts: 4946
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:51 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:48 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
they likely do get nice offsets such no longer needing to lease and run their own premium lounge by utilizing the Star Alliance facility instead

Air NZ do a wonderful job with their lounge at LAX. It has a great view and nice facilities. That *A lounge would have to at least match the standard of the current NZ lounge. At current, it gives a taste of New Zealand by offering NZ beer and wine - something I cannot see happening if they were to go to a *A lounge. But we all know that their long haul services are losing money so it could become inevitable.

You have to wonder how much better TBIT will be once it's fully renovated as well. If it's just as chaotic as it has been, NZ would be wise sticking with T2.
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
xiaotung
Posts: 800
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:58 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:58 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
I hear NZ is talking about terminal move at LAX come 2013.

This is part of the *A Move Under One Roof project I believe. I remember seeing a masterplan somewhere.
 
User avatar
aerorobnz
Posts: 7486
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 3:43 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:20 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
I hear NZ is talking about terminal move at LAX come 2013.

I think T2/T3 will return to 'domestic/North America' services and all the international such as VS/AF/KL/NZ/TA flights will migrate to TBIT.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
koruman
Posts: 2179
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:08 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:32 am

Switch from T2 to TBIT?

There goes another advantage of choosing Air New Zealand! Let's hope it's just another hare-brained idea. For me, LAX has the airline's flagship lounge, and I'd hate not to see their French lounge manager again, as he is a

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):

I hear NZ is talking about terminal move at LAX come 2013.

That would be disappointing.

The LAX lounge is the nicest in the network by far, and as other posters have written feels like home for Kiwi and British passengers alike.

More to the point, regardless of class of travel, the nice small scale of T2 ensures that the nastiest of the LAX experience ends when you enter the terminal.

It makes me worry that Fyfe really might be planning to abandon the LAX-LHR sector.
 
User avatar
aerorobnz
Posts: 7486
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 3:43 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:48 am

Quoting koruman (Reply 9):
There goes another advantage of choosing Air New Zealand!

You make it sound like they want to change and will be given a choice by LAX airport management. I'm not convinced this is a NZ decision at all - like you say NZ is happy, and has spent a lot of money bringing the lounge up to spec, including contracts to other carriers for use.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
aklrno
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:18 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:45 am

I'd hate to see NZ move out of T-2 to TBIT because it is the easiest and fastest terminal for passengers. Very short walks.

I thought T-2 was owned by a consortium of airlines on land leased from LAWA, and NZ is one of the owners. Could LAWA force them out of their own building if they didn't want to go? Also, for passengers transferring to their Star alliance partner United it is easier to walk from T-6//7/8 to T2 than it is to walk from T6/7/8 to TBIT. Does anyone know where the majority of connecting passengers to/from NZ are connecting to?

If this is done. I hope it isn't soon. Although some of the new TBIT opens in about 13 months, the last of the gates won't open until the old TBIT piers are demolished and the new apron built about 2 years from now.
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:11 am

Nothing is definite, however the shift to the remodeled TBIT is becoming more of a reality for operators.
For example, Air France will be making a move when it starts A380 ops in 2012 summer.

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 5):
Air NZ do a wonderful job with their lounge at LAX.

But probably cost a pretty penny on rentals and operating cost.

Quoting aklrno (Reply 10):
I thought T-2 was owned by a consortium of airlines on land leased from LAWA,

Yes LAX-Two Corp which was Pan Am-Northwest originally and became Air Canada-Hawaiian-Northwest.

However in April 2010, LAWA bought up the 40-year bonds on the facility and bough out the members for $117mil, and now owns the facility. LAWA elected to have the consortium management agreement continue through June 2013.


Quoting aklrno (Reply 10):
and NZ is one of the owners.

NZ was never an owner. Simply a tenant, like the dozen or so others.

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 6):
This is part of the *A Move Under One Roof project I believe. I remember seeing a masterplan somewhere.

Yes Star has designated LAX as part of the 'Under One Roof' initiative. Joint facilities at TBIT was a central core of that.

Quoting aklrno (Reply 10):
Could LAWA force them out of their own building if they didn't want to go?

Ultimately if a carrier needs to be moved they will be. Look at how Frontier was bounced between T3 to T6 and soon back to T3.

However at the end of the day, I strongly suspect any NZ move will be made based on its own desire. There is no particular reason why LAWA would need NZ to vacate T-2.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Gasman
Posts: 1420
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:06 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:56 am

Quoting cchan (Reply 1):
The OneSmart thing would be a good idea if there aren't similar cards already around. We don't know who is bearing most of the cost in developing this, it could be NZ or Bank of New Zealand or some other parties. If NZ isn't bearing the development costs, then there is little harm in doing it.

I'm going to jump at the chance not to be the cynical one here for once - I absolutely love the idea of the OneSmart card. It's going to totally revolutionise the way I use money when travelling overseas. If there are similar options around already, I must confess to being completely unaware of them. And of course only OneSmart gives you the ability to "top up" airpoints.

What's the downside??
 
koruman
Posts: 2179
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:08 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:15 am

Quoting gasman (Reply 12):
What's the downside??

The downside is for elites wanting to buy upgrades.

I may whinge about Air New Zealand, but like every other Gold Elite, two things keep my loyalty no matter what Air NZ does. My two annual complimentary long-haul upgrades, and the ability as a GE to use Airpoints to Confirm Upgrades at any time from 355 days out if R inventory remains. All Gold Elites value these upgrades more than anything else. Probably more than they value their spouses or at least their pets and children!

Now, you may say that this makes me a freeloader, but I disagree. Under the Airpoints system, Confirmed upgrades require you to buy the highest economy or Premium Economy fare buckets, which are by no means cheap. A U Class Premium Economy return ticket to London costs $7,100 currently, plus NZ Airpoints 4,600 for a Confirmed Upgrade into Business Premier - so the airline effectively gets NZ$11,700 per passenger, part cash, part diminished Airpoints liability The cheapest published Premium Economy fare is currently $6200 plus NZ Airpoints 1920 for Standby Upgrades, which makes for revenue of NZ$8120 if all 4 upgrades clear on a return ticket, which again is highly unlikely to represent a financial loss to the airline.

I'll say that again. A Premium Economy AKL-LHR with Confirmed Upgrades earns Air NZ $11,700, and the Standby Upgrades equivalent - which only uses unsold inventory - earns $8120.

At present, as a Gold Elite, I can upgrade any long-haul fare from Premium Economy to Business Premier from 355 days out if there is R inventory. This requires large amounts of Airpoints, and through both flying and credit cards there are probably fewer than 500 Gold Elites and Golds who accumulate more than 2000 Airpoints Dollars per year, so supply matches demand fairly well.

But that same R inventory is open to all elites and Koru Club members for flight awards from the same 355 days out, at hugely discounted rates, e.g. Business Premier is NZ Airpoints 6380 return to London, when the lead-in fare for the same seat is NZD11,500. But not too many Airpoints members have 12760 Airpoints lying around for a pair of tickets to London - it would take most people around 12 years Gold flying to accumulate them. So the award-seekers and upgrade-seekers don't get in one another's way.

But from now on, smart Airpoints members will simply buy the number of Airpoints they need through One Smart, and redeem them 355 days out for the available R class inventory.

That annoys me as an elite, because there will be no upgrade inventory left for me. But it also means that the 4 R inventory seats on an AKL-LHR return flight will only "earn" NZ$25,520 in revenue, when as Standby Upgrades they would have earned $32,500 and if used for Confirmed Upgrades they would have earned $45,000. It's rank bad business.

The people who sold the "Earn to Fly" idea to Fyfe and his chums doubtless said "these seats are award inventory anyway, it won't cost you any money". But as I have shown, it will cost around $10,000 per flight in lost revenue.

And then there will be two problems for passengers. Those of us wanting upgrades won't get them unless we request them as soon as business opens 355 days out, but that's improbable too as the itinerary has to be paid and ticketed before it can be upgraded.

And there are going to be some distraught people who spend NZ$13,000 buying Airpoints on their One Smart card for a special trip, only to find that there is no inventory.

One Smart basically changes the whole complexion of Airpoints, because it's so easy to buy Airpoints - and awards - for a fraction of the cost of a Business Premier ticket.

[Edited 2011-12-07 01:35:19]
 
xiaotung
Posts: 800
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:58 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:44 am

Quoting gasman (Reply 12):
I'm going to jump at the chance not to be the cynical one here for once - I absolutely love the idea of the OneSmart card. It's going to totally revolutionise the way I use money when travelling overseas. If there are similar options around already, I must confess to being completely unaware of them. And of course only OneSmart gives you the ability to "top up" airpoints.

This type of card as a banking product is nothing new. ANZ has a similar Travel card in foreign currencies. Most major banks in Australia offer that too. NZ simply combined this card with their Airpoints card. Calling it revolution is really an overstatement. It's just another way of theirs to take your money. You used to pay a foreign exchange commission overseas and now you pay BNZ a commission when you load your onesmart card. BNZ and NZ share some revenue from the card. Why do you think you can earn more Airpoints overseas than in New Zealand when you spend on the card?

[Edited 2011-12-07 01:46:09]
 
Kaiarahi
Posts: 1807
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:55 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:54 am

Quoting koruman (Reply 8):

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):

I hear NZ is talking about terminal move at LAX come 2013.

That would be disappointing.

The LAX lounge is the nicest in the network by far

  

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 7):
all the international such as VS/AF/KL/NZ/TA flights will migrate to TBIT.
Quoting xiaotung (Reply 6):
This is part of the *A Move Under One Roof project I believe.

Except that NZ would be sharing TBIT with oneworld and skyteam competition, while most *A flights - UA and AC - would be elsewhere. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
Kaiarahi
Posts: 1807
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:55 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:56 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
However at the end of the day, I strongly suspect any NZ move will be made based on its own desire. There is no particular reason why LAWA would need NZ to vacate T-2.

Although if CBP vacated T-2, I guess NZ would have little choice.
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
nascarnut
Posts: 288
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 3:43 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:12 pm

Air NZ's 4th domestic Airbus ZK-OJS to enter service a month earlier than planned due to Christmas loads.
ZK-OJS will enter service on Dec 23rd to add additional capacity on the AKL-CHC-AKL services

Once the 5th 77W is delivered in Januray ZK-OKQ, NZ will not receive any new Jet aircraft for 18 months.
The next new delivery with be the ATR72 for Mount Cook in December 2012.

The last JetConnect 737-400 is ready to leave NZ. ZK-JTQ has had all Qantas markings removed and will soon leave NZ shores.

[Edited 2011-12-07 11:15:03]
 
User avatar
Zkpilot
Posts: 3714
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:46 pm

Quoting nascarnut (Reply 17):
Air NZ's 4th domestic Airbus ZK-OJS to enter service a month earlier than planned due to Christmas loads.
ZK-OJS will enter service on Dec 23rd to add additional capacity on the AKL-CHC-AKL services

I'm still trying to figure out why the new A320s are going to domestic rather than international with the longer sectors?
56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
 
cchan
Topic Author
Posts: 952
Joined: Sat May 17, 2003 8:54 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:16 pm

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 18):
I'm still trying to figure out why the new A320s are going to domestic rather than international with the longer sectors?

If I remember correctly, the new ones with sharklets are going to international, and the current non-sharkleted ones will go to domestic.
 
BlackLabel
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:17 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:41 pm

Quoting koruman (Reply 8):
For me, LAX has the airline's flagship lounge, and I'd hate not to see their French lounge manager again, as he is a

I'm on the edge of my seat here. He's a.. ?

Thierry is indeed an asset -- and the lounge is great.

Quoting aklrno (Reply 10):
Also, for passengers transferring to their Star alliance partner United it is easier to walk from T-6//7/8 to T2 than it is to walk from T6/7/8 to TBIT.

How do you figure? TBIT to T678 is a shorter walk than T2 to T678, unless you cut through the parking structures which the average passenger does not do.

Quoting gasman (Reply 12):
I absolutely love the idea of the OneSmart card. It's going to totally revolutionise the way I use money when travelling overseas. If there are similar options around already, I must confess to being completely unaware of them. And of course only OneSmart gives you the ability to "top up" airpoints.

ANZ TravelCard and Kiwibank Loaded For Travel are basically the same thing and have been around for a while. OneSmart is nothing special, misleading, and expensive.

Admittedly I would never use any of those types of cards for travel so I am not their target market, but there are significant issues to the frequent (loyal?) NZ passenger that Koruman outlines with the OneSmart offering that disappoint me... and I really don't see why NZ should be getting into the banking game. It's non-core.
 
aotearoa
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 1:50 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:46 pm

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 18):
I'm still trying to figure out why the new A320s are going to domestic rather than international with the longer sectors?
Quoting cchan (Reply 19):
If I remember correctly, the new ones with sharklets are going to international, and the current non-sharkleted ones will go to domestic.



My understanding is that the wingletted A320s due in mid 2013 will be going into the domestic network. While the a/c would return better fuel economy on the longer cruise segments of the regional network, the cost of reconfiguring the current regional A320 fleet to the new domestic configuration would far out weigh the fuel benefit. The cabin would need a huge overhaul, galleys, toilets, interior sidewalls and ceilings, plus all the GSM aboard equipment.

In any case, the regional A320 fleet leases must be due to expire sometime around 2015, so the NEO option must look like good, especailly for the A321, which could fill the gap between the A320 and B789 when all the 767s finally depart.
 
nascarnut
Posts: 288
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 3:43 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:12 pm

The current group of A320 being delivered do not have the required equipemnt to operate across the Tasman or up to the Pacific Islands. The are purely Domestic aircraft. We the delivery of the next Airbus in 18 months, this one will be equipped with the sharklets and used on the Intl services. The Intl Airbus's will then be converted to Domestic and replace the remaining 737's on a 1 for 1 basis. The A320 deliveries have been timed to coincide with the expiration of the 737 leases.
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:01 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 15):
Except that NZ would be sharing TBIT with oneworld and skyteam competition, while most *A flights - UA and AC - would be elsewhere. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

UA no matter what will be somewhere else. AC is not moving as they still earn revenues from the LAX-Two Corporation partnership.

But TBIT is becoming a nice cluster for long-haul foreign Star carriers at LAX,

ANA
Asiana
Lufthansa
Singapore
Swiss
Thai
Turkish

Getting more partners and flight activity utilizing the shared TBIT facilities helps reduce the cost for everyone involved.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
User avatar
NZ107
Posts: 4946
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:51 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:03 pm

Quoting nascarnut (Reply 17):
Air NZ's 4th domestic Airbus ZK-OJS to enter service a month earlier than planned due to Christmas loads.
ZK-OJS will enter service on Dec 23rd to add additional capacity on the AKL-CHC-AKL services

Any idea of the delivery date?
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
aklrno
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:18 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:14 am

Quoting BlackLabel (Reply 20):
How do you figure? TBIT to T678 is a shorter walk than T2 to T678, unless you cut through the parking structures which the average passenger does not do.

I guess I am just an above average customer. I don't go through the parking lots. I use the sidewalk next to the Encounter. Even if it isn't shorter (and I think it is) the sidewalk to TBIT is crowded and difficult to move my roll-aboard through. The sidewalk past the Encounter is empty. The only problem is rain, and that's rare.

In another thread I mentioned that LAX is building airside connectors between a few terminals and planning others. I would like to see an airside connector between the north and south terminals somewhere around the Encounter. That would complete the airside pedestrian loop.

If there were an airside path from T8 (that's where the RNO flights board) to TBIT I might consider using it, but only if they do it with some high speed moving sidewalks through the old connector tunnels. It would take forever through the existing crowded concourses.
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2256
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:20 am

Quoting BlackLabel (Reply 20):
It's non-core.

The link to the investor presentation in the last thread identified expanding non-core revenue streams as desirable and a priority in the year ahead.

Quoting aotearoa (Reply 21):
My understanding

Quite the contrast to...

Quoting aotearoa (Reply 21):
The current group of A320 being delivered

Either way, I wish they kept the 733-style seats. So much cosier than the sterile A320-domestic seats they have now. and the dinky coloured lighting... well, meh.
 
User avatar
NZ107
Posts: 4946
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:51 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:24 am

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 26):
and the dinky coloured lighting... well, meh.

You start to wonder whether the 789s will utilise the rainbow coloured mood lighting currently seen in the NH 788s... I'd say probably and Richard Simmons will be doing another safety video!
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
BlackLabel
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:17 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:50 am

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 26):
The link to the investor presentation in the last thread identified expanding non-core revenue streams as desirable and a priority in the year ahead.

Driving ancillary revenue was a goal; and (as a shareholder) I'm okay with that in the most part when it is targeted in core-related activities, e.g. the Air NZ taxi and parking services. The OneSmart thing, no. Not impressed.
 
ZKOJH
Posts: 1457
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:51 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:09 am

Dunedin airport evacuated after threat to plane

Dunedin airport had to be evacuated on Wednesday night after a threat to a plane from Wellington was reported.
An Air New Zealand plane had just departed when police in Wellington were alerted by a member of the public to a threat to the plane.

The aircraft landed without incident and was inspected. Other flights were delayed.

Dunedin Airport chief executive John McCall says the airport was evacuated for about two hours.

Police are investigating the incident and want to hear from anyone who saw any suspicious behaviour in the women's toilets at Wellington airport late on Wednesday afternoon or early evening.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/nation...rt-evacuated-after-threat-to-plane
Vietnam time..
 
agent99nzboi
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:09 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:02 am

Quote:
Once the 5th 77W is delivered in Januray ZK-OKQ, NZ will not receive any new Jet aircraft for 18 months.
The next new delivery with be the ATR72 for Mount Cook in December 2012.

Has it been confirmed that Mount Cook will be operating the ATR 72-600, or just assumption?

Quote:
Quoting BlackLabel (Reply 20):

Either way, I wish they kept the 733-style seats. So much cosier than the sterile A320-domestic seats they have now. and the dinky coloured lighting... well, meh.

...don't forget the eerie music to ease the mood...

At least they aren't as extreme with the mood lighting as the likes of Virgin America.


But I also like the 733 seats.
 
User avatar
aerorobnz
Posts: 7486
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 3:43 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:26 am

Quoting agent99nzboi (Reply 30):
Has it been confirmed that Mount Cook will be operating the ATR 72-600, or just assumption?

Just an assumption. This has not been decided officially (nor unofficially to my knowledge either)

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 26):
Either way, I wish they kept the 733-style seats. So much cosier than the sterile A320-domestic seats they have now. and the dinky coloured lighting... well, meh.

It brings it inline with the international product onboard the 77W which is also Black/White and Neon. the A320 fittings parallel the mood lighting on the 772 fleet as well. Not that I like the mood lighting longhaul but I think it more or less makes sense to use the same kind of interior fittings.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
ZKOJH
Posts: 1457
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:51 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:31 am

an 18 month gap between any new aircraft that's a long gap?? but means 787's A320's and ATR 72's all at once. be a busy time but watch the market fill up in the mean time, and then wait for NZ to come up with yet another plan,
Vietnam time..
 
User avatar
aerorobnz
Posts: 7486
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 3:43 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:37 am

Quoting nascarnut (Reply 17):
The last JetConnect 737-400 is ready to leave NZ. ZK-JTQ has had all Qantas markings removed and will soon leave NZ shores.

JTQ will be scrapped for parts I believe. Unlikely to leave NZ shores at all.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
A330NZ
Posts: 157
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 2:23 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:08 am

http://www.christchurchairport.co.nz...ort-celebrate-25-year-anniversary/

Singapore Airlines celebrates 25 years of flying into Christchurch by permanently increasing to daily flights year round
 
alangirvan
Posts: 522
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2000 2:13 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:15 am

Today we had a report in the ODT that Eagle will be reducing their services into Wanaka. They are finding that they are not carrying as many passengers as they would like, and not selling many higher fares.

Wanaka, for a short time has had better than daily service - they will now go back to a daily B1900D.

It is a tricky one. People in Wanaka see the lower fares available out of Queenstown, and fly out of that airport. If they want to go to CHC, that is a journey to do by road. Very hard to keep regional services going, when there is a bigger airport so close.
 
ZKOJH
Posts: 1457
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:51 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:36 am

''Pilot to pay Air NZ for first class hotel dispute''


An Air New Zealand pilot has to pay the airline $1500 in a dispute over whether it put him up in a truly first class hotel.

Michael Alexander Talbot contends the airline's hotel of choice for stopovers in Los Angeles, the Manhattan Beach Marriott, does not meet the definition of a "first class'' hotel, as set out in the collective agreement with the Airline Pilots' Association.

In a letter to the airline's operations manager, Mr Talbot said the walls were too thin, the air conditioning was too noisy, the cardboard cups in the suites were substandard and there was no first class restaurant at the hotel.

He took the dispute to the Employment Relations Authority, seeking a definition of the term "first class''.

Authority member Kenneth Anderson found that even with the most objective analysis, it was not possible to give a meaningful interpretation of the term.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10772123
Vietnam time..
 
aklrno
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:18 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:38 pm

I have some sympathy for the pilot. That hotel is truly in need of some major upgrades. Nice location and grounds though. Lots of great restaurants within walking distance and Fry's Electronics!

[Edited 2011-12-09 09:40:26]
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:29 pm

Amazing NZ is still at that hotel.

Normally airlines switch hotels every few years. I recall as far back as they 1980s NZ staying there.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
A330NZ
Posts: 157
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 2:23 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:33 pm

Quoting alangirvan (Reply 35):
. If they want to go to CHC, that is a journey to do by road

In good traffic, it rarely takes less than 5 hours to complete the journey by road. This is longer in winter due to weather and traffic to the ski fields. For most cars, that is around one full tank of petrol each way. I believe what you said about the cheaper fares from ZQN, but it would be cheaper to fly the direct Wanaka to Christchurch flight, than to drive, and that would be the smart choice for citizens of Wanaka and Christchurch to choose
 
User avatar
Zkpilot
Posts: 3714
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:05 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 38):

That's the problem though... If a hotel doesn't do proper renovations then it becomes dated over the years do what was 5/4* becomes 3*
56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
 
nzrich
Posts: 1095
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:51 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:06 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 38):

Amazing NZ is still at that hotel.

Normally airlines switch hotels every few years. I recall as far back as they 1980s NZ staying there.

They have not been there the whole time . The hotels in LAX do seem to change on a more regular basis than other cities around the world for NZ .
"Pride of the pacific"
 
Unclekoru
Posts: 246
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 3:00 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:33 pm

Quoting alangirvan (Reply 35):
Today we had a report in the ODT that Eagle will be reducing their services into Wanaka. They are finding that they are not carrying as many passengers as they would like, and not selling many higher fares.

Wanaka, for a short time has had better than daily service - they will now go back to a daily B1900D.

It is a tricky one. People in Wanaka see the lower fares available out of Queenstown, and fly out of that airport. If they want to go to CHC, that is a journey to do by road. Very hard to keep regional services going, when there is a bigger airport so close.



There had been grumblings about Wanaka for a while. I tend to agree with you, they're up against ZQN if you're going to AKL or the car if you're from CHC. Must be a fairly small business market too.

Apparently Wanaka is not the only Eagle market performing badly in the current climate. Relatively speaking, they appear to be the financial problem child of the Link carriers.

[Edited 2011-12-10 13:36:08]

[Edited 2011-12-10 13:36:29]
It sounds like english, but I can't understand a word you're saying
 
alangirvan
Posts: 522
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2000 2:13 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:25 pm

It could be various things - do people find Beech1900Ds less attractive than slightly bigger planes? If there were 30 seater planes around. It is not just the lead in prices on Jetstar that Wanaka people see, it is generally less availability of Grab a seat fares.

The service is now a daily, so at least they have that, but the timing does not give a business person a useful time for travelling and making the most of a day when they reach CHC.

Wanaka is much smaller than Queenstown, but the travel needs are for people who want to connect up to Auckland, and over to Australia - the market could perhaps support more positive services through their local airport.
 
Unclekoru
Posts: 246
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 3:00 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:02 am

Quoting alangirvan (Reply 43):
It could be various things - do people find Beech1900Ds less attractive than slightly bigger planes? If there were 30 seater planes around. It is not just the lead in prices on Jetstar that Wanaka people see, it is generally less availability of Grab a seat fares.



Quite possible, the likes of the B1900, Metro and Jetstream are not particularly popular with passengers. Not sure what the cancellation rate is like either? You'll never have a lot of availability in the low fare buckets with 19 seaters when competing (indirectly) with an Airbus or Boeing, JetStar or Air NZ.

Quoting alangirvan (Reply 43):
The service is now a daily, so at least they have that, but the timing does not give a business person a useful time for travelling and making the most of a day when they reach CHC.

Wanaka is much smaller than Queenstown, but the travel needs are for people who want to connect up to Auckland, and over to Australia - the market could perhaps support more positive services through their local airport.



Yes, the timing is not fantastic for business travellers, and that was part of the reasoning behind the revised schedule. In terms of the total travel time for WKA-CHC-AKL vs car to Queenstown and then ZQN-AKL in a Jet, there can't be a lot of difference? And it looks like I can arrive in AKL earlier in the morning via ZQN as well.

A daily B1900 to CHC seems like a road to nowhere, much like OAM to CHC was.
It sounds like english, but I can't understand a word you're saying
 
ZKOJH
Posts: 1457
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:51 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:35 am

I flew on a beech 1900 a few years ago from AKL to ROT and that's was a really fantastic flight , the smallest plane I had ever been on and it only had 11 people on, If eagle are saying that Wanaka is proven bad for them with ZQN just down the road how will Mount Cook work then next year!!?? and that's with the ATR 72, I wish all the routes good luck as we head into 2012..
Vietnam time..
 
User avatar
NZ107
Posts: 4946
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:51 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:41 am

Quoting Unclekoru (Reply 42):

There had been grumblings about Wanaka for a while. I tend to agree with you, they're up against ZQN if you're going to AKL or the car if you're from CHC. Must be a fairly small business market too.

People from WKA (and even IVC/Southland) often drive to ZQN to take flights to say AKL. 1-2 hrs driving isn't really that much, especially if you can find decent times to fly in and out at while also possibly being cheaper. I'd expect it to be pretty small. The frequencies have barely increased, if at all, since the opening of the route (can't remember if it went daily right from the start).
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
PA515
Posts: 907
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:09 am

Quoting agent99nzboi (Reply 30):
Has it been confirmed that Mount Cook will be operating the ATR 72-600, or just assumption?

They will be ATR72-600's according to page 32:
www.airnewzealand.co.nz/assets/PDFs/...11-investor-day-presentations2.pdf

PA515
 
kiwiandrew

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:16 am

Quoting PA515 (Reply 47):
Quoting agent99nzboi (Reply 30):
Has it been confirmed that Mount Cook will be operating the ATR 72-600, or just assumption?

They will be ATR72-600's according to page 32:

I don't think the question was about the model, I think the question was about whether it would be Mount Cook as the operator, and although I suspect they most probably will be the operator I don't think that there is any confirmation of that on the page you referenced. ( but thanks for providing the link to the presentation  Smile )

[Edited 2011-12-11 00:18:42]
 
Kiwinlondon
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:24 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107

Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:50 pm

Hi Everyone,

This is my first post and I am an avid airliner fan. Going back to previous threads re NZ possibly ceasing LHR operations. This would be a travesty in my view for a number of reasons:

1) LAX-LHR is a very high value market in terms of per capita income levels, therefore are able to charge higher fares than usual fares for Kiwis and yet may be competive vs some legacy carriers.

2) They have carved out a strong niche market particularly Hollywood stars and other high value travllers.

3) Strong UK-NZ historical ties. I know that is not a reason in iteslf to serve the market, but does have strong brand recognition particularly in London.

4) Ongoing grwoth in UK migration to NZ.

I don't know how profitable this route is given the long haul losses across NZ, long term surely will be a hold?

The challenges for NZ are:

1) EK, an excellent airline and competitive pricing.

2) An apparent obsession with downgrading the product. Albeit I have not flown NZ for a few years so am not familiar with S2S.

3) A seemingly uncoordinated approach to other *A partners.

Kiwinlondon

Who is online