louA340
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Delta Celebrates 5 Years In Africa

Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:51 pm

http://www.eturbonews.com/26706/delt...five-historic-years-serving-africa


Time has really passed by quickly. It really didn't seem that long ago that they began with the ATL-DKR-JNB. Now they serve six different cities in five countries and still expanding.
What do you see on the plans for DL i the coming years? They seem to be setting up a small mini hub in ACC. Will this be expanded into a regional hub?
With United now in the foray, it will be very interesting. I always hoped AA will also join in, but that doesn't look likely in any foreseeable future.

Congrats again to DL!!   
RyEng
 
panamair
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RE: Delta Celebrates 5 Years In Africa

Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:58 pm

Here's an entry on the Delta blog from the ACC station manager:

http://blog.delta.com/2011/12/02/marking-a-5-year-milestone-in-africa/
 
jfk777
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RE: Delta Celebrates 5 Years In Africa

Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:44 pm

Africa has been for Delta "the Undiscovered Continent". IT started small and now covers all parts and has the most unique flight in the Delta route system, the 777LR from J'berg( high altitude) to Atlanta which is 16 hours long nonstop.
 
luckyone
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RE: Delta Celebrates 5 Years In Africa

Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:10 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 2):
Africa has been for Delta "the Undiscovered Continent". IT started small and now covers all parts and has the most unique flight in the Delta route system, the 777LR from J'berg( high altitude) to Atlanta which is 16 hours long nonstop.

East Africa is still lacking. Does Cairo (which has been suspended) qualify as East Africa in the same sense as Kenya, Ethiopia, Tanzania, etc etc.
 
davescj
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RE: Delta Celebrates 5 Years In Africa

Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:18 am

NBO is still on the someday list I think. Which would make sense to link up to the KQ hub. But if/when/etc....well, that's another question.

FWIW, KQ J class intra-Africa is quite decent.

Could someone remind me or correct me, did DL not buy the Africa routes from Pan Am?

Dave
Can I have a mojito on this flight?
 
flyguy89
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RE: Delta Celebrates 5 Years In Africa

Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:33 am

I was talking to a Delta pilot who rotated himself off 767/757 flying to strictly domestic when DL started using those aircraft to Africa, he said a lot of crew had come down with illnesses and hated the stop-overs and he didn't want to deal with any of that....any truth to what he was saying or is it just anecdotal?
 
gigneil
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RE: Delta Celebrates 5 Years In Africa

Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:12 am

I have heard a lot of stories of illness from not just DL but AF and others. I can't speak to the veracity of the reports, but I'm sure its a situation.

NS
 
ssublyme
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RE: Delta Celebrates 5 Years In Africa

Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:24 am

Quoting luckyone (Reply 3):
East Africa is still lacking. Does Cairo (which has been suspended) qualify as East Africa in the same sense as Kenya, Ethiopia, Tanzania, etc etc.

Cairo, Egypt is technically North Africa, but regionally could be lumped under Middle east as well.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Delta Celebrates 5 Years In Africa

Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:36 am

Quoting ssublyme (Reply 7):
Quoting luckyone (Reply 3):
East Africa is still lacking. Does Cairo (which has been suspended) qualify as East Africa in the same sense as Kenya, Ethiopia, Tanzania, etc etc.

Cairo, Egypt is technically North Africa, but regionally could be lumped under Middle east as well.

In terms of IATA statistics, traffic reports etc., Egypt has always been part of the the Middle East region. The only country considered as North Africa as far as IATA is concerned is Libya. Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia are part of the Europe region.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: Delta Celebrates 5 Years In Africa

Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:42 am

I remember the code share with SAA and the SAA 747 parked at T3 at JFK inches away from the glass!
 
Tdan
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RE: Delta Celebrates 5 Years In Africa

Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:23 am

DL: Celebrating 5 years of doing the hokey pokey all over Africa   

But in all seriousness, DL has begun figuring it's Africa strategy out...albeit through trial and error, but figured out nonetheless. They were the first US carrier to expand significantly into sub-Saharan Africa since the good ol' days and they deserve a lot of respect for doing so!
We will ride this thunderbird, silver shadows on the earth, a thousand leagues away our land of birth... -Captain Bruce
 
FSDan
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RE: Delta Celebrates 5 Years In Africa

Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:39 am

Quoting Tdan (Reply 10):
DL: Celebrating 5 years of doing the hokey pokey all over Africa

Ha!! LAD definitely was like that.

I do hope that NBO can get started sometime soon. Does anyone have any ideas on whether JFK-XXX-NBO or ATL-XXX-NBO would be better?

Also of note is that they've had ACC-SSG on their route map as a "new route" for months now...
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FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Delta Celebrates 5 Years In Africa

Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:46 am

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 9):

Heck, I remember SAA's daily Atlanta flight. That thing ran for years. Did the stop BEFORE or AFTER DL started JNB?
What gets measured gets done.
 
davescj
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RE: Delta Celebrates 5 Years In Africa

Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:41 pm

Quoting FSDan (Reply 11):
I do hope that NBO can get started sometime soon. Does anyone have any ideas on whether JFK-XXX-NBO or ATL-XXX-NBO would be better?

Well, it depends what you mean by XXX......

You can go via AMS from both and connect to KLM. Or go via LHR and connect to KQ.

But seriously, I think JFK would be the more likely gateway, but that's a gut feeling. I suspect that NBO could be a non-stop from JFK on a 777, but currently TSA doesn't like NBO security (it isn't sufficient apparently).

I know the flight was long shown as a continuation from Dakar (I believe), but I wonder if there would be enough traffic to support the stop? Would DL have 5th Freedom rights?

Finally, could a JFK - NBO non stop be cheaper? Especially if there were expanded code-shares in East Africa?

I do wonder if we'll see DL expand to Durbin (South Africa), or other African destinations.

Dave
Can I have a mojito on this flight?
 
jfk777
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RE: Delta Celebrates 5 Years In Africa

Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:56 pm

Quoting Davescj (Reply 13):
But seriously, I think JFK would be the more likely gateway, but that's a gut feeling. I suspect that NBO could be a non-stop from JFK on a 777, but currently TSA doesn't like NBO security (it isn't sufficient apparently).

I remember when DL was about a day from flying to NBO and the TSA cancelled their flights. But if the TSA is "right" why would the UK and other European governments not have the same problem. BA, Virgin, KLM, and all the main Euro Airlines fly to NBO, safely since no news is "safe" news ?
 
davescj
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RE: Delta Celebrates 5 Years In Africa

Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:21 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 14):
But if the TSA is "right" why would the UK and other European governments not have the same problem. BA, Virgin, KLM, and all the main Euro Airlines fly to NBO, safely since no news is "safe" news ?

I tend to agree with you. The European carriers have no issue. But I can remember when Lagos Airport was posted all over the US as having insufficient security. It does make you wonder.

Having flown in Africa, I can assure you that the security there in my experience was as good I've seen in the US. Same metal detectors, hand-wanding, no liquids, etc.

And as we all know, TSA has more than once missed weapons, etc in pax bags.

Dave
Can I have a mojito on this flight?
 
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United787
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RE: Delta Celebrates 5 Years In Africa

Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:45 pm

Congrats to DL, they have an impressive operation to Africa. I am glad UA/CO have followed them into this previously unchartered waters for US carriers...at least recently unchartered.
 
retrolivery
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RE: Delta Celebrates 5 Years In Africa

Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:15 pm

Quoting Davescj (Reply 13):
TSA doesn't like NBO security (it isn't sufficient apparently).

If that's not the pot calling the kettle black, I don't know what is.
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tommy767
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RE: Delta Celebrates 5 Years In Africa

Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:37 pm

DL's been flying to Cairo since the 1990s!!!!
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Cubsrule
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RE: Delta Celebrates 5 Years In Africa

Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:48 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 14):
I remember when DL was about a day from flying to NBO and the TSA cancelled their flights. But if the TSA is "right" why would the UK and other European governments not have the same problem. BA, Virgin, KLM, and all the main Euro Airlines fly to NBO, safely since no news is "safe" news ?

Do we know what, specifically, TSA's concern is?
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louA340
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RE: Delta Celebrates 5 Years In Africa

Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:58 pm

Quoting FSDan (Reply 11):
I do hope that NBO can get started sometime soon. Does anyone have any ideas on whether JFK-XXX-NBO or ATL-XXX-NBO would be better?

Maybe a JFK/ATL-ACC-NBO. That looks viable, but then will that stop be more attractive than transiting via LHR or AMS
Will there be a significant difference between them in terms of time/distance?
RyEng
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: Delta Celebrates 5 Years In Africa

Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:40 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 18):
DL's been flying to Cairo since the 1990s!!!!

Nooooo....I think you're confusing it with IST. DL started JFKCAI in 2001, dropped it, then restarted a few years later.,

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 19):
Do we know what, specifically, TSA's concern is?

Unsure. Speculation = something to do with the Christmas eve near bombing in 2009? Idk.
confidence is silent. insecurities are loud.
 
ssublyme
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RE: Delta Celebrates 5 Years In Africa

Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:14 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 21):
Unsure. Speculation = something to do with the Christmas eve near bombing in 2009? Idk.

No, didn't have anything to do with that. It is more so related to threats received from Somali Pirates off the cost of East Africa. Nairobi isn't too far off if they were to make good and attack US interests.
 
ETinCaribe
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RE: Delta Celebrates 5 Years In Africa

Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:52 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 8):

In terms of IATA statistics, traffic reports etc., Egypt has always been part of the the Middle East region. The only country considered as North Africa as far as IATA is concerned is Libya. Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia are part of the Europe region.

Perhaps IATA should consult the UN classification of countries and use that? After all, it is an organ of the UN, isn't it?

Quoting Tdan (Reply 10):
But in all seriousness, DL has begun figuring it's Africa strategy out

Honest question: what is their strategy, AFAYK.

Quoting Davescj (Reply 13):
Finally, could a JFK - NBO non stop be cheaper? Especially if there were expanded code-shares in East Africa?

Given the TSA hurdle, perhaps a KQ NBO-JFK is the way to go with the Dreamliner whenever they get theirs.

Quoting Davescj (Reply 15):

I tend to agree with you. The European carriers have no issue.

Well, they are not US carriers, the threats are not the same to all carriers I would presume. I am not sure the real reasons are public knowledge so hard to say if it is justified or not. Gotta give them the benefit of the doubt I guess.
 
Tdan
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RE: Delta Celebrates 5 Years In Africa

Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:10 pm

Quoting ETinCaribe (Reply 23):
Honest question: what is their strategy, AFAYK.

Very good question.

From what it seems, try something, if it works, keep it. If not, cut it. They seem to be figuring it out because there are fewer and fewer ideas to try out and only the routes that would logically make sense have stuck around.
We will ride this thunderbird, silver shadows on the earth, a thousand leagues away our land of birth... -Captain Bruce
 
Viscount724
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RE: Delta Celebrates 5 Years In Africa

Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:27 pm

Quoting ETinCaribe (Reply 23):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 8):

In terms of IATA statistics, traffic reports etc., Egypt has always been part of the the Middle East region. The only country considered as North Africa as far as IATA is concerned is Libya. Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia are part of the Europe region.

Perhaps IATA should consult the UN classification of countries and use that? After all, it is an organ of the UN, isn't it?

IATA is an airline trade association, totally unrelated to the UN or any other government bodies. You're thinking of ICAO, the UN body that coordinates aviation issues at government level.
 
kotoka
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RE: Delta Celebrates 5 Years In Africa

Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:38 pm

Quoting louA340 (Thread starter):
What do you see on the plans for DL i the coming years? They seem to be setting up a small mini hub in ACC. Will this be expanded into a regional hub?

There's a lot of money to be made on African regional routes with the right destination pairings, schedule, aircraft, etc. Delta's strategy appears to be to develop Accra as a scissor hub connecting ATL and JFK to ROB, ABV, etc. They've invested a lot of money into dedicated gates at ACC, lounge facilities, and have received 5th freedom rights on the ROB and ABV routes. I imagine they must be making a good amount on cargo too. If facilities and ground ops in ACC are expanded, I can see it developing into a bigger (albeit still "mini") scissor hub. There will have to be considerable investment made into ACC airport though by the authorities. In the evenings the apron there rivals major airports in terms of aircraft movement. I've seen passenger jets parked in the cargo apron due to lack of space.
 
thegoldenargosy
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RE: Delta Celebrates 5 Years In Africa

Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:13 pm

Quoting Flyguy89 (Reply 5):
he said a lot of crew had come down with illnesses

My FA friends from the DL NYC say there are often FA's in the hospital with malaria. I know that some crewmembers have died from illnesses contracted on Africa trips.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Delta Celebrates 5 Years In Africa

Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:47 pm

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 27):
I know that some crewmembers have died from illnesses contracted on Africa trips.

You know? or you have heard it on the grapevine?
 
ETinCaribe
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RE: Delta Celebrates 5 Years In Africa

Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:49 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 25):

IATA is an airline trade association, totally unrelated to the UN or any other government bodies. You're thinking of ICAO, the UN body that coordinates aviation issues at government level.

Thanks for the correction Viscount724, I should have looked it up. Still, having for instance, Morocco and Algeria in Europe doesn't make much sense or I fail to see the rationale.
 
thegoldenargosy
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RE: Delta Celebrates 5 Years In Africa

Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:53 am

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 28):
You know? or you have heard it on the grapevine?

It's common knowledge in the company that both pilots and flight attendants have died from illnesses contracted during African layovers. Most crew try to avoid going to Africa. DL provides malaria tablets and deet. However often the African trips are awarded last minute and people don't have a chance to start taking the tablets.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Delta Celebrates 5 Years In Africa

Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:43 am

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 30):
It's common knowledge in the company that both pilots and flight attendants have died from illnesses contracted during African layovers

If it has happened I am sorry to hear of it, but I also have dealt with this industry long enough to be aware that a lot of things which are 'common knowledge' actually turn out to be something that someone mentioned to someone else after they heard it from so-and-so, who told them it came from a reliable source. Given the nature of lawsuits to hit the headlines and the fact that any such deaths would be pretty hard to cover up I am surprised that I can never seem to find any news reports ábout them.
 
pcbm
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RE: Delta Celebrates 5 Years In Africa

Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:29 am

Quoting louA340 (Thread starter):
It's common knowledge in the company that both pilots and flight attendants have died from illnesses contracted during African layovers. Most crew try to avoid going to Africa. DL provides malaria tablets and deet. However often the African trips are awarded last minute and people don't have a chance to start taking the tablets.

What utter BULL -- I have been commuting to Africa for seven years now -- while Malaria concerning -- it is easily tratable if caught on time -- I find it HARD to believe that a crewmember would get a fever on return and NOT mention that they had been in a Malaria area.

"a friend of a friend" or "common knowlege" does not make the point -- so here are some facts:

This link is to the Journal of Travel medicine and a study "Airline Crews%u2019 Risk for Malaria on Layovers
in Urban Sub-Saharan Africa: Risk Assessment and Appropriate Prevention Policy"

Top
 
pcbm
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RE: Delta Celebrates 5 Years In Africa

Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:42 am

Sorry -- continuation of previous post"

This link is to the Journal of Travel medicine and a study Airline Crews -- Risk for Malaria on Layovers
in Urban Sub-Saharan Africa: Risk Assessment and Appropriate Prevention Policy"

www.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.2310/7060.2004.19204/pdf
 
Flyer732
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RE: Delta Celebrates 5 Years In Africa

Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:29 am

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 27):
My FA friends from the DL NYC say there are often FA's in the hospital with malaria. I know that some crewmembers have died from illnesses contracted on Africa trips.

Its all such a joke. I've been flying in far far worse areas of Africa than Delta crews go for the past 7 years and I've never once gotten sick. Has it happened to others? Yes once or twice. But this is at a carrier with planes in some of the ugliest locations on the continent.
 
davescj
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RE: Delta Celebrates 5 Years In Africa

Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:18 pm

Quoting kotoka (Reply 26):
They've invested a lot of money into dedicated gates at ACC, lounge facilities, and have received 5th freedom rights on the ROB and ABV routes.

I agree that the 5th freedom rights are key. Also the cargo movement I am sure is important.

But why dedicated gates? The lounge is contract (per DL website, it is the Akwaaba Lounge). Who runs it? What is it like?

FWIW, I've been in both of KQ's lounges in NBO. They are nothing like SC. The "shared" STElite+ lounge is not nice at all (on the other hand, the dedicated KQ J lounge isn't bad). Both are small, but reasonable to the traffic.

Compare this to BA in NBO who staff a F and J lounges, even thought there is only one flight a day to/from LHR. The lounge is also open all day (when I could enter as a BA Gold card holder it was great, much better than the other choices).

I didn't notice any other lounges in NBO. Anyone know more about ACC?

Dave
Can I have a mojito on this flight?
 
kotoka
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RE: Delta Celebrates 5 Years In Africa

Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:07 pm

Quoting Davescj (Reply 35):
But why dedicated gates? The lounge is contract (per SA)">DL website, it is the Akwaaba Lounge). Who runs it? What is it like?

Yes, you're right. It's the Akwaaba lounge and it's per contract. I guess what I meant by "lounge" facilities was more along the lines of dedicated seating areas and boarding gates for DL passengers. From what I know KL also uses these, so perhaps these are uses by other Skyteam carries as well? I can't remember the gate numbers, but I think it's Gates 3 and 4 (I may very well be wrong though). The dedicated gates are absolutely essential. ACC gets really crazy on some days in the evenings with BA, KL, AZ, LH, SA, UA, DL all operating flights, along with regional flights. Prior to the gate expansion there were only 2 boarding gates in ACC.

I flew ACC-ATL on DL and as a GM I got access to the Akwaaba lounge. I must say I was very impressed! Not much of a food selection, but they had a decent selection of beer, wine, and liquor. The other lounge at ACC is Adinkra which has been renovated recently as well from what I hear. Priority Pass is accepted at both lounges.

[Edited 2011-12-09 06:10:34]

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