UAL747
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What Was Ansett Like?

Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:34 pm

I have always wondered what Ansett was like. I thought the livery (tail) was beautiful, but I know relatively little about the airline. Where did they fly? What happened to them? What aircraft did they have? Where they part of any alliance?

UAL
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malaysia
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RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:07 pm

You could try looking at Ansett on wikipedia, it gives a summary of the operations and they were one of the early members of Star Alliance
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stratacruiser
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RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:25 pm

In the regulation era Ansett was one of Australia's two major domestic carriers (along with TAA). Once the Australian government decided to break Qantas's monopoly on intercontinental routes, Ansett began service to several Asian destinations. As I recall they flew 747-300s and 767s internationally. My only direct experience with them was domestic legs SYD - CNS and HTI - SYD in 1995. Their service was simlar to US domestic carriers at the time. My wife flew C class HKG - SYD also in 1995 and found the service adequate but uninspired.

Ansett was a Star Aliance carrier and code-shared with UA among others.

One well-known Ansett anomaly is that they were the only carrier to order 767s with a three-crewmember cockpit to meet terms of their labor agreement. The planes were later modified for two-crewmember operation.

Dave
 
roseflyer
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RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:50 pm

I remember flying Ansett New Zealand on their BAE-146. They had 10 of them to compete with Air New Zealand. It was pretty nice to get a hot dinner of Spaghetti and Meatballs on the 464 mile flight from CHC to AKL.

I remember many preferring them to Air New Zealand, but I am not really sure why. Nowadays it is all about who can offer the lower quality service, charge more for various frills and make it the most difficult to earn and redeem miles. The days of Ansett and Air New Zealand competing before ANZ buying Ansett out were nice.
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JQflightie
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RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:58 pm

Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):

Ansett Australia (AN) was Australia's 2nd Airline behind QF, Full Service carrier, Star Alliance Member, had a network that went all over Australia, and some international routes like NAN, DPS, HKG, KIX.

Fleet wise, at the time of collapse,
B744 (leased from SQ) B762, B763, B733 and A320 in the 'mainline' fleet
Regional Operators:
Kendall operated CRJ200's, SAAB 340's and Metroliners
Hazelton operated SAAB 340's and Metroliners
Aeropelican operated DH6
Skywest operated F50's

The only surviving airlines from Ansett Australia are Aeropelican, Kendall and Hazelton (Both of which were merged and renamed REX-Regional Express)

There were several things to the lead up of the collapse;
Competition from Qantas, Impulse and the then New VirginBlue ... but,
The major reason for Ansett Australia's collapse was was Air New Zealand, who was a 50% shareholder, and was under full ownership of AN by 2000.
There are strong indications that asset stripping to raise money from Ansett resources to support Air New Zealand lead to severe cash flow problems. Even fuel bills were being subsidised. The shortcomings in the maintenance of the Boeing 767 fleet (probably due to the cash flow issues) and the grounding of them over the holiday period effectively finished the airline off.

Here is a god report on the matter:
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/business/items/201105/s3224870.htm

Apart from all this, AN was a fantastic airline, had it been aloud to be bought by SQ, the airline would still be around today, bigger, better and stronger then before!
Fantastic crew, fantastic service! A airline that is sadly missed by all, and still some of my friends are fighting for their entitlements 10years on...
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Gemuser
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RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:23 pm

Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
I have always wondered what Ansett was like.

That depends very much on the time frame you refer to.

Ansett was in essance the consolidation of almost all Australian airlines, done to match the government owned TAA. The mainline carries was Ansett-ANA, later Ansett Airlines. This airline operated DC-4, DC-6B, Vickers Viscounts, L-188 Electra, Fokker F27, B721 & B722, DC-9-30, B737 & B767 and finally A320s. They operated interstate services between SYD, MEL, ADL, HBA, BNE & PER. They also operated to CBR, DRW & other Northern Terrority ports, services across Bass Strait and to various Queensland ports.

As well as the mainline there were subsidary companies in NSW (Ansett Airlines of New South Wales), South Australia (Ansett Airlines of South Australia) and Western Australia (MacRobertson Miller Airlines(MMA)). Early on there was a Queensland Airlines, but that was folded into the mainline in the 1960s. These companies all operated Fokker F27 aircraft, MMA on some very long routes and also had some Viscounts. As well Aof SA operated the last CV-440 in Australia and A of NSW had a subsidary Ansett Flying Boat Services that operated Short S25 Sandringham flying boats until 1974! Plus there was Ansett Mandated Airlines which operated in the Australian external terrority Papua and the UN Trust Terrority of New Guniea (previously the League of Nations Mandated Terrority of New Guniea, hence the name). Ansett-MAL operated F27s and DC-3s (possibably other types) until PNG inderpendance when it was folded into PX.

The last company was Ansett International as referred to Reply 2. I hesitate to call it a subsidary as I don't remember the details of the corporate structure but is was not a fully owned sub because of Murdoch's share holding in the parent company. It was mainly owned by Australian institutional investors.

What were they like to fly on? Technically brillant! A very safe, reliable, well run airline. On board, like most Australian service businesses they had their bad days and their absolutly excellent days, in general they were very good. IMHO the further you got from the main routes the better they were, some of their outback & PNG staff were fabolous and real characters. The gem of course for Anetters was the flying boat service. Read my trip report about that here:

http://wwww.airliners.net/aviation-f...ums/trip_reports/read.main/187510/

Hope that gives you some idea of one of the worlds truely great airline, just such a pitty it didn't make it into the deregulation era, due to some very shady business dealing after Reg Ansett's death.

Gemuser
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Gemuser
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RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:35 pm

Quoting JQflightie (Reply 4):
There are strong indications that asset stripping to raise money from Ansett resources to support Air New Zealand lead to severe cash flow problems

That may have been the case, but there are also strong indications of asset stripping and cash diversions from long before NZ became involved.

Gemuser
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1stfl94
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RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:39 pm

Quoting JQflightie (Reply 4):
Fleet wise, at the time of collapse,
B744 (leased from SQ) B762, B763, B733 and A320 in the 'mainline' fleet

Given that they were mainly domestic with just a few international routes that seems like a very complicated fleet and I'm not including the regional ops. Were the 747s really needed for the international routes, I would have thought that 777s would have been a better fit
 
Gemuser
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RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:43 pm

Quoting 1stfl94 (Reply 7):
Were the 747s really needed for the international routes, I would have thought that 777s would have been a better fit

B772s were probably considered too small for once daily and less then daily operations and they were not in plentiful supply on the second hand market. The B77W did not exist. The B747 was the only real option.

Gemuser
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ClassicLover
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RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:54 pm

I remember when I was about 13 (so we're talking somewhere around 1989 or so) I received an Ansett brochure about the brand new A320 aircraft they were bringing into service.

The cabin design theme was the Orient Express. The seats were midnight blue, with snow white protectors for your head that were done out as though they had lace on the edges. It looked exceptionally classy!

As far as I know, Ansett was the choice airline of business people. My father would only fly Ansett as would many of his colleagues - the rich flew Ansett. Of course, anyone did, but they were perceived as the higher class airline compared to TAA (which became Australian Airlines in 1986 before becoming Qantas Domestic in the 1990s).

I flew Ansett twice - Sydney to Coolangatta and return - in late 1993 or early 1994. My only flights on the Boeing 727 (the -277 Advanced).

Even as far back as then, the airline was behind Australian Airlines technologically. They were last to withdraw the DC-9, the last to withdraw the Boeing 727 and so on. Their fleet was schizophrenic - they had loads of different types of aircraft. I remember lots of Fokker 50s, A320s, BAE146s, not to mention the 767s which were the only ones in the world with a flight engineers station. In 1981 they introduced the 737-200, which were disposed when the 737-300s came about in the middle 1980s, followed by A320s straight afterwards... a very strange fleet!

They also bought independent East-West Airlines, and just about everyone. A very strange airline indeed from that perspective...
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mcr
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RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:17 pm

Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
I have always wondered what Ansett was like.

I flew on an Ansett ticket just one trip, 12th/13th June 1999 from my log, but it was memorable! SYD-CSI-LSY, returning LSY-SYD the next day. Aircraft was a Saab 340 operated by Hazelton (sadly I don't have the regs - any way I could find out?). As I understand it Casino (CSI) was the old local airport and they had a requirement to continue to serve it for some time after most local services moved to Lismore (LSY).

We landed at CSI, which was basically a shed at the end of a strip of tarmac, dropped of a couple of people, and taxied back to the runway. And waited for ten minutes. Then the pilot announced we couldn't take off for Lismore yet because "there's a plane on the runway with a problem, and they're trying to arrange a few guys to push it back to it's parking place". So we went back to the "terminal". Twenty minute later, we departed - after the FA called us back on board by shouting from the top of the boarding stairs.

The FA briefing was short. "Ladies and gentlemen, since nobody new joined this flight here at Casino, I won't repeat the safety instructions I gave when we left Sydney earlier. Our flight time to Lismore this afternoon will be about three minutes. We will not be reaching a cruising altitude on this flight, so please keep your seatbelt fastened." We take off. (She doesn't even bother to put the mic back on it's clip. About thirty second pass.) "Ladies and gentlemen, in a couple of minutes we will be landing at Lismore. I hope you haven't unfastened your seatbelt, and that you enjoyed your flight today with Ansett Australia.".

When we arrived at LSY to meet my cousin, I asked about the disabled aircraft on the runway. Turned out it was a Cessna with a burst tyre, and yes - he'd helped push it off the runway.

I've flown SYD-LSY again since, but on a Jetstar A320. Not nearly as much fun!
 
EDICHC
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RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:22 pm

Quoting mcr (Reply 10):

Great anecdote! (To Mods - sorry I know this does not contribute much to the thread but I just wanted to convey my appreciation publicly)
A300/319/320/346 ATR72 B722/732/3/4/5/6/8/742/4/752/762/3/772/3 BAC111 BAe146 C172 DHC1/6/8 HS121 MD80 PA28
 
Viscount724
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RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:23 pm

When Ansett was only a domestic carrier, competing with TAA, with virtually identical schedules and equipment on major routes under the government pollicy then in effect, Ansett was generally preferred by those who supported private enterprise, since TAA was government-owned. I think Ansett also had a generally better service reputation than TAA in those days.

It was much like the situation between privately-owned CP Air and then-government-owned Air Canada on domestic routes in Canada during the same period, with CP generally having a better service reputation.
 
koruman
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RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:53 pm

Quoting JQflightie (Reply 4):
There are strong indications that asset stripping to raise money from Ansett resources to support Air New Zealand lead to severe cash flow problems. Even fuel bills were being subsidised

That is just defamatory nonsense.

Air New Zealand had profitable short-haul, long-haul and domestic operations throughout the period of the ill-fated Ansett investment, and while there was plenty of cross-subsidisation it was all in one direction - from the feckless parent (Air NZ) to the idiot child (Ansett).

That is not in any way to absolve Air New Zealand from blame. Far from it.

You need to go back to late 1994 to understand exactly what happened. The Australian and New Zealand governments had agreed to a single aviation market, taking effect from a Monday in October 1994. This was perceived as crucial for Air New Zealand's business plan of becoming a Trans-Tasman carrier with a 24 million market instead of a small NZ niche carrier with a 4 million market.

But there was a problem. Ansett was a basket-case with an absurdly diversified fleet and industrial chaos - but a large workforce. The Keating (Labor) government in Australia was already in deep electoral trouble, and did not want Ansett exposed.

So at 530pm Australian time on the Friday before the new Single Market was to become valid - which was already 730pm New Zealand time - the Australian transport minister sent a fax to his NZ colleague Maurice Williamson in which he told him that Australia was abrogating the agreement. That fax was discovered, from memory, at the end of the weekend.

From that point on, the New Zealand government, and the board of Air New Zealand followed a path of commercial suicide. Air New Zealand had intended to obtain domestic feed in Australia for services from Sydney to North America and from Brisbane to Asia. That swiftly fell apart - their 747 fleet was too big for those markets without domestic feed.

Air New Zealand ended up doing precisely what the Keating government wanted - they bought Ansett. The acquisition of the first half was fairly uncontroversial, but Singapore Airlines wanted the second half and when NZ exercised their right of first refusal, Singapore Airlines bought a significant stake in Air New Zealand in order to indirectly achieve that.

But Air NZ ran Ansett badly. The corporate side of things was a disaster, with longserving managers eased out and replaced by people who had no corporate relationships in Australia. Air NZ were incompetent in terms of how they managed Ansett, but the stories of missing engines and siphoned-off fuel were utterly rebutted by Ansett's liquidators.

Then, in 2000-2001, SIA and NZ allowed themselves to be utterly outflanked by Qantas. Ansett was haemorrhaging money, and Air New Zealand did not have deep enough pockets to replace the antique fleet and pay the high costs. SQ and NZ agreed that SQ could increase its stake in NZ up to 49%, but this required a change in New Zealand law to allow that. The government dithered, while Qantas launched a successful lobbying campaign on both sides of the Tasman, arguing that the "behemoth" this would create would drive it out of business.

The NZ government hesitated and hesitated......and then 9/11 happened. The whole world of aviation changed. Ansett collapsed before the NZ government could make a decision, and Qantas got ten years of an effective monopoly in Australia.

So this is the story of a basketcase airline (Ansett), an unscrupulous government (Keating's Labor), a weak and out-of-its-depth government (Bolger's Nationals in NZ), a foolish, undercapitalised and mismanaged airline (Air New Zealand) and an airline with deep pockets but no commonsense whatsoever (Singapore Airlines). And it's the story of how they were all outwitted and outflanked by an airline with ruthless and utterly unscrupulous management - Qantas.

[Edited 2011-12-08 14:55:14]
 
aerokiwi
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RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:54 pm

Quoting JQflightie (Reply 4):
There are strong indications that asset stripping to raise money from Ansett resources to support Air New Zealand lead to severe cash flow problems

That's been dispelled on numerous occasions, but lngers on, I suspect, because of the simplicity of the logic.

Quoting koruman (Reply 13):
That is just defamatory nonsense.

Yup.

Quoting koruman (Reply 13):
That is not in any way to absolve Air New Zealand from blame. Far from it.

Yup again. Mistakes on all sides. The New Zealand Government preventing SQ raising its stake in NZ was also a contributing factor. Muchael Cullen has a lot to answer for (this, TranzRail).

Anyway, from my experiences flying around on Ansett NZ BAE146s and Ansett Australia 737s and A320s during the late 90s, my impresisons were:

Ansett NZ - refreshing change to Air NZ and I really enjoyed their service.

Ansett Aus - not sure if the decline had set in but utterly indifferent service on multiple occasions across a heap of routes. I don't know what the big deal was.

[Edited 2011-12-08 16:04:03]
 
Ditzyboy
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RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:04 am

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 9):
They were last to withdraw the DC-9,

That is incorrect. While I agree that Ansett's fleet was dire, I must correct you about the DC-9s. Ansett withdrew their DC-9s in favour of 737-200s from late 1981 and they were gone within a year. TAA decided to upgrade their DC-9's both in terms of cabin amenity and performance-wise. Around half left the fleet in 1986-87 (on arrival of the 733s). The pilot's strike in 1989 saw the 'premature' demise of the remaining TN DC-9 fleet. There was much talk of using them in a single class configuration on leisure routes after deregulation.
 
AngMoh
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RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:11 am

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 14):
Yup again. Mistakes on all sides. The New Zealand Government preventing SQ raising its stake in NZ was also a contributing factor. Muchael Cullen has a lot to answer for (this, TranzRail).

A full story on the last few days of Ansett is here, it is a good read

part 1: http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalk...-twin-disasters-of-september-2001/
part 2: http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalk...sett-files-before-the-towers-fell/
part 3: http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalk...y-pacific-star-or-australian-star/
part 4: http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalk...icked-from-2001-to-2007-overnight/

I just threw away my old Ansett frequent flyer card (no status whatsoever). I used to fly them between 1990 and 1995 as their A320s where much more spacious / had more comfortable seats than the Australian Airlines / Qantas 737s. My first flight on a A320 was actually on Ansett and if I remember it correctly it was from ADL to SYD.
727 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 742 743 744 752 762 772 773 77W A300 A310 A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 A345 A346 A359 A388 DC-9 DC-10 MD11 MD81 MD82 MD87 F70 ERJ145 E175 E190 E195 ATR72 CRJ200 CRJ700 CRJ900 BAE146 RJ85
 
Gemuser
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RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:44 am

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 9):
the last to withdraw the Boeing 727

A bit misleading as Ansett took delivery of 6(?) B722s long after they and TAA got their initial batches of B722s, so of course they kept them longer.

Gemuser
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koruman
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RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:47 am

I missed out further villain in my caricature above.

New Zealand's Labour government in 2001 exhibited a heady cocktail of hesitation, incomprehension and avoidance which ensured that the Singapore Airlines investment never arrived.
 
planeguy727
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RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:15 am

I flew them twice...

my domestic segments when I moved to Australia (SYD-ADL-ASP, Aug 1982) and when I left (route reversed, Aug 1984) both on 722s.

I loved walking across the tarmac at ASP and using the rear airstairs to board. The flight crew was always fantastic - though that may have been because I was 10-12 yrs old and in love with commercial planes. I remember visiting the flight deck on the ADL-ASP segment, so cool. I still have the plastic wings they gave me on each flight.

Somewhere in my files I have the promo material they put out with the pending arrival of the new 767s. I also remember the beginning of the transition to the new livery (white with southern cross). I liked the red and white with the A - reminded me of the Delta widget I knew from ATL, FRA, MLB and PBI.

Thanks for bringing back some great memories.
I want to live in an old and converted 727...
 
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vhtje
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RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:32 am

Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
I have always wondered what Ansett was like.

You can still get a taste of it today. Take a QF domestic flight on a 734 (if you still can - have they been withdrawn yet?) or, preferably, a 767.

AN was identical, except the aircraft were cruddier and the interiors featured a lot more blue.
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
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vhqpa
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RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:45 am

I can clearly remember flying them DRW-ADL Boxing Day 1994. I was six years old and I was going on my first solo flight down to Adelaide to visit family. I can remember my parents giving me the option of Ansett or Qantas and I made my decision solely on aircraft type as I knew Ansett sent 727's where Qantas was 737's. The flight was on 727-200LR VH-ANA the seats and carpet were blue and there was blue and gold parallel stripes along either side of the aisle. The economy meal was roast chicken with gravy and peas. I was also invited to the flight deck to visit the crew. On arrival at ADL I remember marvelling the the size of the 727 as I disembarked from the real ventral stairs. The return flight was on a 737-300 I don't remember much of that flight except it was in the old deregualtion flag livery where the 727 on the flight down was in the brand new Starmark livery. The interior was a grey/blue combination, the inflight movie was about a seal called "Andre" and as I boarded I asked the hostess (they were still called that then)"Is this plane a 737-300" and she seemed amazed by my question. That was pretty much my only memories of them after that I didn't fly again until July 2004.


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TN486
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RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:02 am

Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
I have always wondered what Ansett was like. I thought the livery (tail) was beautiful, but I know relatively little about the airline. Where did they fly? What happened to them? What aircraft did they have? Where they part of any alliance?

Hullo there, can I refer you to two well researched books relating to AN. Detail is as follows:
ANSETT. The story of the rise and fall of Ansett 1936-2002. By Stewart Wilson. Published by Aerospace Publications Pty Ltd, PO Box 1777 Fyshwick ACT 2609 Australia. Website. www.ausaviation.com.au (They publish the monthly Australian Aviation magazine).
Ansett. The collapse by Geoff Easdown and Peter Wilms. Published by Thomas c Lothian Pty Ltd. website.
www.lothian.com.au
I commend both publications to you.

[Edited 2011-12-09 03:04:07]

[Edited 2011-12-09 03:05:11]
remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
 
tayser
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RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:53 am

Random MEL trivia:

AN was famous in MEL for its founder/CEO/whatever for flying his helicopter everyday from his house in Portsea (bottom of the Mornington Peninsula / Port Phillip Bay) to the roof of 501 Swanston Street - AN's HQ (about 70-80km point to point straight up the middle of the bay). Since then, helicopters have not been able to land on the top of CBD buildings.

80 Collins St - aka Nauru House had a helipad on the top as it was the tallest at the time up the East End (the spires of 101 and 120 Collins St now are much taller and would be an obstacle to landing a chopper on top of 80 Collins). The helipad is still, in effect, there but with a renovation in the early 2000's the owner of the building built a new LMR (Lift Motor Room) on top of the building which has taken up half of the old helipad.

Nowadays choppers landing in the city are only permitted to approach the city along the Yarra from the east or west (to my knowledge / through many years of observation) and land at the floating helipad on the north bank of the Yarra in Enterprize park (just east of Spencer Street bridge).

anyhow, I flew them once MEL-CBR-MEL back in 1998 - the first flight I had been on since I was 2 (1984) when my family lived in the UK for a year. Was a 320 IIRC - the flight was free so it was good anyhow  
 
jetfuel
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RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:21 pm

Quoting tayser (Reply 23):
AN was famous in MEL for its founder/CEO/whatever for flying his helicopter everyday from his house in Portsea

Incorrect. It was flown from Mount Eliza, NOT Portsea. The Bell Jetranger was also used for public transport from Melbourne Yarra to Melbourne Airport
Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
 
Independence76
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RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:39 pm

It's such a shame what happened to this airline - Australia needed some competition to also fill the void Star Alliance had with the market.

I remember seeing their commercials 11 years ago when they were the official airline of the 2000 Sydney summer Olympics.
 
CXfirst
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RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:59 pm

Ansett was our airline of choice in Australia, mainly due to my father's invitation membership (due to his business position at the time). It collapsed about the same time we left Australia, and it was sad coming back here (live in Australia again) and not having them to travel with.

-CXfirst
 
tayser
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RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:11 pm

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 24):
Incorrect. It was flown from Mount Eliza, NOT Portsea

I stand corrected - regardless he commuted like no one else did in Melbourne at the time.
 
Ditzyboy
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RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:38 pm

Quoting vhqpa (Reply 21):
as I boarded I asked the hostess (they were still called that then)"

You'll find that term was phased out it the early 80s. I have always loved the way 'hostie' is used in Aussie conversation. It has a casual warmth to it. Hostesses became known as flight attendants, domestically speaking, when males joined their ranks. Qantas held onto the term 'flight hostess' for a little longer - until females were able to apply to promotion. That was around 1983 I believe.

Here is a link that shows pictures of Ansett interiors in the early 90s.
http://my1.photozig.net/dac25/_4Q1xqq2vZV59925tAlbum355/zphotopage.php

It is from the following website, which has been recently updated. I find it a great resource, though extremely frustrating when trying to find something you have earlier found on the website!
http://www.ausairuniforms.com/
 
Ditzyboy
Posts: 290
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:15 am

RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:55 pm

Quoting ditzyboy (Reply 28):
http://www.ausairuniforms.com/

I just had a laugh and thought I must share. The website just reminded me of my initial training in 2000, where we had to arrange the tea/coffee cup on the Economy(!) meal tray so that the handle was sticking out at a 90 degree angle. We had to do this for every customer! And we always polished the tea/coffee pots and were reprimanded if we did not do so. These little touches (like putting tooth picks in the lemon slices for tea) are well gone it today's environment - I had forgotten them all until now.

I also remember having to offer pillows and magazines to customers and the Purser doing a 'comfort walk' after takeoff LOL

Sorry to digress, but the website mentioned really does highlight the lack of style and class we see on flights today. Airlines, customer and staff are all equally to blame, in my opinion. 11 years (since I started flying) is not a long time but it highlights how the focus on low fares has made such a massive impact in the way we travel and what customers expect in purchasing a ticket.
 
BAeRJ100
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:49 am

RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:36 am

Quoting JQflightie (Reply 4):
Fleet wise, at the time of collapse,
B744 (leased from SQ) B762, B763, B733 and A320 in the 'mainline' fleet
Regional Operators:
Kendall operated CRJ200's, SAAB 340's and Metroliners
Hazelton operated SAAB 340's and Metroliners
Aeropelican operated DH6
Skywest operated F50's

The only surviving airlines from Ansett Australia are Aeropelican, Kendall and Hazelton (Both of which were merged and renamed REX-Regional Express)

Skywest survived too. They still have the old Ansett F50's (including VH-FNA which I believe was one of the first, if not the first, F50 in Australia), and now also fly a fleet of F100's and A320's.
B738-9/744ER/752/753/763/77L/773/77W/A320/332/333/388/MD82/717/F100/RJ85/RJ100/146-100/200/300
 
jetfuel
Posts: 1030
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:27 pm

RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:36 am

Quoting tayser (Reply 27):
Quoting jetfuel (Reply 24):
Incorrect. It was flown from Mount Eliza, NOT Portsea

I stand corrected - regardless he commuted like no one else did in Melbourne at the time.

This is true. The only reason I have such intimate knowledge is he was the founding father of the school I went to and I did manage to score a ride in his chopper.
Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
 
FlyboyOz
Posts: 1743
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2000 10:05 am

RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:04 am

I still remember 10 years ago when I flew on Ansett Australia to Hong Kong many times. We always sat on the upper deck on a B743 and B744 (both VH-ANA and VH-ANB). We felt like we were on a B737 cos upper deck has 3-3 seats and it was quiet too (see the pic below). Cabin crew were so friendly and nice to me. Of course, the seat pitch for Economy Class was 34" but it's for a B747-300. What a good memories!


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Photo © Craig Murray
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Photo © Craig Murray


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Photo © Craig Murray



I can't believe that seats looks old and the PTVs look smaller than our current PTVs! lol Time has been changed a lot. But Air Pacific still have same design and shape of the seats and PTVs but different material.

Ansett Australia had updated uniform - from red to yellow.
Ansett Australia flight attendant uniform

Ansett Australia Spaceship ad - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HXHuWT-ujQ

We did fly on an Eastwest airlines from Brisbane to Cairns and then from Cairns to Brisbane to Gold Coast to Sydney (flew on Ansett Australia Bae146-300 but under Eastwest). Brisbane to Gold Coast is the shortest flight and it took about 30 mins to get there.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Wolodymir Nelowkin
View Large View Medium
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Photo © George Canciani



There was an article that talks about Air New Zealand wanted Ansett Australia to rebrand as either "Pacific Star" or "Australian Star" (that was before 9/11).

Before Ansett Australia joined Star Alliance, it had codeshares with Cathay Pacific, Singapore Airlines, United Airlines and other 2 airlines I don't remember.

[Edited 2011-12-10 01:22:36]
The Spirit of AustraliAN - Longreach
 
trent1000
Posts: 610
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:55 pm

RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:49 am

How was Ansett? Wonderful!!!

My first flight was on one of their 727s TSV / BNE and besides other flights on various aircraft types, I flew SYD to BNE on a 767 a few days before they ceased operating.

A relative of mine was an air hostess with them during the 1980s and loved her job and the company, too.

On 19 October 1994, Boeing 747-300 VH-INH Landed at SYD without the nose wheel extended. I think that was their flight from KIX.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansett_Australia
 
AFGMEL
Posts: 190
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:39 am

RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:24 am

I have to say that I thought AN was a great airline. Flew many times for business on the MEL-SYD route. Also used them for their holidays. QF was a much better airline in those days as well, but AN was my airline of choice. I may have been lucky, but delays and cancellations were rare.
B 727-44/200 732/3/4/8/9 767-3 742/3/4, 772/3, A319/20/21 332/333 342/3 , DC3/4/10, F28/50/100, ATR72
 
VH-BZF
Posts: 740
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 1999 1:28 pm

RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:01 pm

66 Years of Awesome service.

Won ATW's passenger service as well as many other awards, including (I think) the only airline to win a Mercury award for in-flight service/catering for it's international B747 'Spaceship' flights.

Hey what can I say, I worked for them for over 15 years, miss Ansett to this day.

BZF
Ansett Australia - (was) One of the worlds great airlines!
 
1stfl94
Posts: 1082
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:33 am

RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:24 pm

Quoting FlyboyOz (Reply 32):
There was an article that talks about Air New Zealand wanted Ansett Australia to rebrand as either "Pacific Star" or "Australian Star" (that was before 9/11)

That seems like an incredibly bad idea. For all its issues towards the end, Ansett had 66 years of heritage behind it and Air New Zealand rebranding it would have probably sent a lot of Aussie customers into the arms of Qantas and Virgin Blue.
 
nz2
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:38 am

RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:06 am

Quoting JQflightie (Reply 4):
The major reason for Ansett Australia's collapse was was Air New Zealand, who was a 50% shareholder, and was under full ownership of AN by 2000.
There are strong indications that asset stripping to raise money from Ansett resources to support Air New Zealand lead to severe cash flow problems. Even fuel bills were being subsidised. The shortcomings in the maintenance of the Boeing 767 fleet (probably due to the cash flow issues) and the grounding of them over the holiday period effectively finished the airline off.

Absolutely incorrect. The big failing by Air NZ was not to perform proper due dilligence prior to the purchase of the remaining 50% in AN. Had they done so they would have seen an ageing fleet with very poor maintenance history, basically a recipie for failure. Subsequently the 767 fleet was grounded due to the poor maintenance record (prior to the Air NZ take over) and that really killed it off,. Dont blame the kiwi's for this, it was all a result of the years of mis-management by ozzies.

Flew them a number of times, once from AKL up to Bali with NZ flying us to SYD to connect (NZ has discontinued direct Bali flights), and once to SYD return, that was cool on the 743 which they called the spaceship, we sat in economy upstairs on the return, nice flight! Also flew Ansett NZ and as previously mentioned they created competition on the domestic front including biz class and meals. Try scoffing down a hot meal on a 45 minute flight. Also they introduced alcohol on board, I recal the mystery weekends they used to do, we did a golf one and ended up in CHC, not a weekend, just the day which also included lounge access and man did we have loads to drink as it was a novelty in those days, then to top it off the hostie offers us even more on board - unbelievable!! Fun times in the old(ish) days...
 
VH-BZF
Posts: 740
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 1999 1:28 pm

RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Sat Dec 24, 2011 7:20 am

Quoting NZ2 (Reply 37):
Absolutely incorrect. The big failing by Air NZ was not to perform proper due dilligence prior to the purchase of the remaining 50% in AN. Had they done so they would have seen an ageing fleet with very poor maintenance history, basically a recipie for failure. Subsequently the 767 fleet was grounded due to the poor maintenance record (prior to the Air NZ take over) and that really killed it off,. Dont blame the kiwi's for this, it was all a result of the years of mis-management by ozzies.

Yes partly right - Sir Selwyn Cushing had to have Ansett at any cost and as a result of his blind desire to tie up all of Ansett for NZ and then get SQ to buy into NZ was the reason that NZ nearly fell over. It bit off far more than it could chew and lost out big time. The ideal situation would have been both TNT & News ltd selling their shares to SQ and then joining NZ into a tight binding alliance or merger of some type & this should have taken place back in the mid 90's. It didn't and so the rest is history. 10 years on from the Ansett collapse, the wounds still run deep, however I feel that most ex AN staff look back fondly on what was a great airline, but admittadly a bad business. Ansett was a premium carrier that showed the world's airlines how to be great in many areas, it's a pity it all ended in 2001.

Cheers

BZF
Ansett Australia - (was) One of the worlds great airlines!
 
Kiwinlondon
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:24 pm

RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Sat Dec 24, 2011 9:10 pm

I could not agree more with Koruman.

AN's demise had little to do with NZ. Yes NZ were stupid to buy them without completing proper due diligence and allowed themselves to be out manouevered by QF and the Australian Government, but the reality is they had outdated labour agreements (3 crew in 767's), old planes, diversified fleet and a poor product (reputedly).

The simple fact is they were a poorly run airline (yes NZ needs to take some blame latterly) but again reality is they had been poorly managed for years before NZ came along.

The NZ Government had a role to play and Cullen completely mucked up the SQ share purchase of NZ. He dithered, dithered a bit more and oh hang on dithered a bit more for good measure. To this day I cannot understand why the NZ government did not walk away from the TT agreement when Keating and Co pulled the plug??

JQflightie - AN failed for a number of reasons:

1) Government muck ups on both sides of the Tasman.
2) Antiquated union rules at AN.
3) Antiquated and incompatable fleet.
4) Appalling long term Management prior to NZ joining the party.
5) A dallop of poor NZ management - Toomey (NZ CEO) at the time came from QF!!
6) They were a really, really, really bad airline.

kiwinlondon
 
The Coachman
Posts: 1192
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2001 9:57 pm

RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Sat Dec 24, 2011 9:42 pm

Quoting kiwinlondon (Reply 39):
They were a really, really, really bad airline.

This is a nonsense. Either that or you need to clarify what you mean. AN was widely acknowledged as a wonderful airline with costs through the roof which could not be sustained, despite Rod Eddington's best efforts in the late 90's. Eddington of course was the one who famously said that "Ansett is a good airline, but a bad business".

Everyone knows the fleet was a dog's breakfast, no one can really contest that.

Quoting kiwinlondon (Reply 39):
they had outdated labour agreements (3 crew in 767's)

The 3 crew operation had been taken out long before AN finally collapsed. The labour agreements were, however, in need of renegotiation.

Quoting kiwinlondon (Reply 39):
:
they had been poorly managed for years before NZ came along.

Eddington actually did a good job. Unfortunately he couldn't fix the fundamentals e.g fleet renewal and simplification, because he needed capital, capital which NZ on its own could not provide.

In so many ways, AN's glory days, like many of its flyers, was in the 1980's.
M88, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73G, 73H, 742, 743, 744, 752, 762, 763, 772, 773, 77W, 320, 332, 333, 345, 388, DH8, SF3 - want
 
koruman
Posts: 2179
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:08 pm

RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Sat Dec 24, 2011 11:03 pm

There was nothing special about Ansett from a passenger's point of view in the 1990s. They were indistinguishable from Qantas.

There was a novelty value with upstairs Economy on the international 747s, but the novelty begins and ends there.

They were special to their staff, not to their customers.
 
User avatar
yellowtail
Posts: 3734
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:46 am

RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Sat Dec 24, 2011 11:38 pm

I flew them SYD-CNS on a 767 and Cairns - Alice Springs on a 146. The former was a forgettable flight, the latter was one of the best flight I evee had. I love the 146.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
TN486
Posts: 383
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:08 am

RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Sun Dec 25, 2011 4:11 am

Quoting koruman (Reply 41):
There was nothing special about Ansett from a passenger's point of view in the 1990s. They were indistinguishable from Qantas.

There was a novelty value with upstairs Economy on the international 747s, but the novelty begins and ends there.

They were special to their staff, not to their customers

Spot on Koruman. There may be a lot of ex AN customers with loads of FF points who may disagree with you (and I am certainly not one of them).

Quoting The Coachman (Reply 40):
"Ansett is a good airline, but a bad business".

The whole story, start to finish.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 42):
I love the 146.

Each to his own I s'pose, and I respect your opinion but dont agree with it. At least in OZ, quite unsuitable.
remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
 
VH-BZF
Posts: 740
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 1999 1:28 pm

RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Mon Dec 26, 2011 10:25 pm

Quoting koruman (Reply 41):
There was nothing special about Ansett from a passenger's point of view in the 1990s. They were indistinguishable from Qantas.

There was a novelty value with upstairs Economy on the international 747s, but the novelty begins and ends there.

They were special to their staff, not to their customers.

Sorry, don't agree at all. All the customers of Ansett I spoke to loved Ansett. I said it above and it has been quoted here in this post a few times, Ansett was a great airline, but a poor business - Ansett was a victim of greedy self serving unions and management that wouldn't take the hard decisions and restructure the airline. Rod Eddington started that journey but Air NZ baulked at the cost of having to overhaul the airline's fleet and truthfully it was something that it alone couldn't afford. Ansett was in desperate need of restructuring and cash at the end of the 1990's, a job that should have been done alot earlier, post the pilot's dispute to transform Ansett. It was a high cost business and one that News ltd. & TNT were not interested in doing, they had filled their pockets with Ansett profits from the '80s and never reinvested much capital. Rupert Murdoch used Ansett's profits to buy 20th Century Fox.

Had Singapore Airlines gone through with it's intent to provide the cash to Ansett to buy Virgin Blue, then today would see a different picture in the skies above Australia. Branson agreed to sell his then fledgling carrier to SQ/AN, however SQ had been burnt by Branson previously when they paid far too much for VS. VB was weeks from going under back in 2001 and was using cash to pay for fuel and SQ dilly dallied on paying Branson for VB. The rest is history, however I honestly believe that today, had Ansett taken on VB, you would've seen a similar set up to the QF-JQ partnership.

BZF
Ansett Australia - (was) One of the worlds great airlines!
 
RyanairGuru
Posts: 6554
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:44 am

Quoting vhtje (Reply 20):
Take a QF domestic flight on a 734 (if you still can - have they been withdrawn yet?)

Yep, you can still taste the 90s down here. QF have 16 still going strong.

In fact I took a ride on your name sake on December 20, CBR-BNE
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
FlyboyOz
Posts: 1743
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2000 10:05 am

RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:34 am

Yes they are still flying around Australia.
The Spirit of AustraliAN - Longreach
 
United Airline
Posts: 8773
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:24 pm

RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:29 am

I believe AN was very ill back then. There is no way Ansett would survive in the current market due to high labour cost, fuel cost etc.

I believe AN would have collapsed 18 months earlier if NZ did not purchase it. And I believe that even SQ would have walked away too and would have done the same thing to AN even if they purchased AN either in full or 49%.

The administrators have proven that there was no asset stripping
 
zkeoj
Posts: 980
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 3:00 am

RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:10 pm

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 3):
I remember many preferring them to Air New Zealand, but I am not really sure why.

I liked flying them a lot, for various reasons:

* I think at that time their service was better
* They flew to Dunedin (where I lived)
* Their aircraft appeared to me be nicer (looked newer/fresher in the cabin) than NZ's old B732s
* The BAe146 had a row of 2-seaters
* This was before/at the beginning of alliances and FF programmes, so it didn't matter to me

But I sure must say that NZ reacted and their service and product got significantly better, and I soon liked them just as much. Today, it is my number one airline...

Cheers
micha
 
United Airline
Posts: 8773
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:24 pm

RE: What Was Ansett Like?

Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:52 am

Wonder if AN will come back some day. For example someone start an airline in Australia and use that name again (SQ maybe?)