comair25
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Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:09 pm

Was watching HLN on AFN and their was a short about a Bill that was proposed that would strip the TSA of their badges and the title "officer".

http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/09/politics/tsa-badges/index.html

I don't see it going anywhere, but what affect would this have "if" it passed.
 
jetmatt777
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:41 pm

They would probably be given nametags and their title would be changed from Officer to Specialist.

Their procedures would probably stay the same.
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
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gdg9
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:44 pm

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 1):
They would probably be given nametags and their title would be changed from Officer to Specialist.
TSA Inspectors are officially titled as Transportation Security Specialists on their SF-50s. As the two occupations are two different series numbers in the federal government, Officers would have to go back to being called Screeners or some other designation, but not Specialist. But your overall point is correct.

The bill in question is H.R. 3608.
http://blackburn.house.gov/UploadedFiles/STRIP_Act_Bill_Text.pdf

[Edited 2011-12-10 05:52:59]
@dfwtower
 
ltbewr
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:53 pm

The use of badges and uniforms that appear to be like that of police/LEO's is part of the intentional intimidation appearance our politicans and many citizens want to discourage terrorists. Most people tend to behave more obediently to those that look like LEO's vs. glorified security guards and that is seen as a psylogical edge to be able to do their job.

I do think they need to have much better training in the law as to searches, civil rights, understanding medical conditions and equipment and how to balance how to enforce securty without violating human rights yet keep off all the terrorists.
 
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fxramper
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:20 pm

Quoting comair25 (Thread starter):
Was watching HLN on AFN and their was a short about a Bill that was proposed that would strip the TSA of their badges and the title "officer".

No problem here since they have no power of a traditional officer. They enforce no law enforcement code.
 
MoltenRock
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:24 pm

I say let them keep their badges and just strip them naked instead. They might learn a little something then. We can then rename them from TSA to T&A.

If I gotta be groped or appear naked via a scanner, I say what's good for the goose, is good for the gander.

[Edited 2011-12-10 06:26:20]
 
BlatantEcho
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:21 pm

The US government has done close to nothing productive in the last decade, so I always shrug when I see stuff like this.

Sure, it'd be great to put the TSA idiots in their place, but really.... what would it accomplish but more waste and bureaucratic wrangling over the insignificant issues..

Now a bill to get rid of the nude scanners and the entire TSA in general? THAT would be change we could believe in (I made a funny).

I'm sure as usual, nothing will happen.
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ckfred
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:32 pm

Normally, if you carry some sort of law enforcement badge, you would have the power to arrest people. You would also be permitted to carry a firearm.

I was on a cruise this past summer, and one of the people at the dinner table was an investigator for the EPA. Not only does she have a badge, but she carries a Glock 19, when working in the field.

So, it makes no sense for TSA screeners to have badges, when they don't have they can't be compared to officers from the FBI, DEA, ATF, Secret Service, and other federal agencies.

But, are TSA screeners issued metal badges? Or are the fabric badges sewn onto shirts all that screeners get? After all, a real badge has a number, and it often indicates the officers position (officer, deputy, sargeant, etc.).
 
swa4life
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:28 pm

How about this for a wild idea.. Staff the TSA with actual trained military or law enforcement agents?... Implement rigorous training and education on the laws and how to deal with certain sketchy issues.. One of most pressing issues I hear about all the time is that former military people are having trouble finding work after being discharged.. There ya go..

The TSA is such a clown show. They even work off of a military pay grade type scale (E1-9). They carry badges, they have a blue "blood stripe" down their leg.. Gimme a friggin break... This stuff does more to boost their own ego than it does to deter anyone..
 
goboeing
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:29 pm

I fully support this idea.

They should have never been permitted to wear any kind of badge whatsoever.

The organization is an ineffective disgrace.
 
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gdg9
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:53 pm

Quoting swa4life (Reply 8):
They even work off of a military pay grade type scale (E1-9)

TSA is on the SV pay plan code, which covers only TSA and no other agency. TSA uses pay banding instead of the GS scale. However I suppose you are right in that as people move up within TSA they get a higher band, similar to the military (as I understand it).
@dfwtower
 
spacecadet
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:34 pm

I think it's a good idea. TSA personnel have an inflated sense of their jobs these days and stripping them of their badges couldn't hurt in rectifying that. It might not necessarily help, but it couldn't hurt. They don't need a badge to do their job; they only need a badge if they want to intimidate people. Even the police agree with this.

The TSA's job is to screen, not to provide law enforcement.
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jetblast
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:35 pm

Quoting ckfred (Reply 7):
But, are TSA screeners issued metal badges? Or are the fabric badges sewn onto shirts all that screeners get? After all, a real badge has a number, and it often indicates the officers position (officer, deputy, sargeant, etc.).

They get metal badges, I believe they are numbered but I can't say I've looked close enough to notice. The employee's position is represented by the number of stripes on their epaulet, their name tag also states what their rank is.



I remember the old uniforms had the fabric badges, I still see them on the polo shirts the people in the bag room wear.
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:49 pm

Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 6):
more waste and bureaucratic wrangling over the insignificant issues..

        

Congress sets up its own rules for logjams like the Super Committee so they don't have to make any tough choices then they come out and tackle the "serious" issues like whether the TSA staff should wear badges or not. Who cares, when the country spends $1.40 for every $1 we take in? The only real difference between us and the PIIGS is that we can still find someone to buy our crap bonds, for now at least.
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Dash8Driver16
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:00 pm

I had a similar Idea for TSA the other day. Since military veterans are having hard times finding jobs why not make TSA an organization that will hire military veterans? provides jobs to people who have past security experience as well as a sense of respect for individuals. Most TSA agents i come across at these podunk out stations are...just plain rude/have a overinflated sense of self worth in their current position. Maybe it is that they get to carry a badge but they don't really provide me a sense of security since what would they do if someone walked in with a gun and shot them all and then proceeded airside?(was brought up by one of our FFDO's) They don't really provide security they should be know as the Transportation Screening Administration. I think stripping them of their badges and title of officer is a great idea.
 
fcogafa
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:38 pm

The TSA should be able to keep Badgers if they want to, everyone needs a pet.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:10 pm

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 5):
If I gotta be groped or appear naked via a scanner, I say what's good for the goose, is good for the gander.

Have you seen the new scanners? No more naked pictures. Just a blob that appears on a generic outline of a body if the scanner sees an object.

I was a vociferous objector to the original scanners and I'm just fine with the updated ones.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:12 pm

Quoting Dash8Driver16 (Reply 14):
Since military veterans are having hard times finding jobs why not make TSA an organization that will hire military veterans?

Military veterans get preferential treatment in the hiring process for virtually all federal jobs today, including TSA agent positions.
 
ckfred
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:57 pm

Quoting swa4life (Reply 8):
How about this for a wild idea.. Staff the TSA with actual trained military or law enforcement agents?... Implement rigorous training and education on the laws and how to deal with certain sketchy issues.. One of most pressing issues I hear about all the time is that former military people are having trouble finding work after being discharged.. There ya go..

The TSA is such a clown show. They even work off of a military pay grade type scale (E1-9). They carry badges, they have a blue "blood stripe" down their leg.. Gimme a friggin break... This stuff does more to boost their own ego than it does to deter anyone..

In Chicago, security at the federal buildings is handled by a private security service that the U.S. Marshal's Service oversees. The Marshal's Service performs background checks, oversees training, develops procedures, etc. All of the people who man the security checkpoints on the first floor, and provide extra security for high profile trials have law enforcement backgrounds (former MPs/SPs or local law enforcement), and they carry firearms and handcuffs. The Deputy Marshalls handle criminal defendants going to and from the federal lock-up, as well as people being brought from state and federal prisons to testify.

The system works well, and I personally believe that the competance of the people from the private security firm is much higher than the people that TSA have working at airport checkpoints.
 
JHCRJ700
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:37 am

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 1):
Their procedures would probably stay the same.

I heard somewhere that there is a bill in the works to re-define the legal definition of rape and under the new definition some of what the TSA does would be considered rape. Not sure if it's the same bill mentioned above.
RUSH
 
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JBo
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:35 am

Quoting swa4life (Reply 8):
How about this for a wild idea.. Staff the TSA with actual trained military or law enforcement agents?... Implement rigorous training and education on the laws and how to deal with certain sketchy issues.. One of most pressing issues I hear about all the time is that former military people are having trouble finding work after being discharged.. There ya go..

The TSA is such a clown show. They even work off of a military pay grade type scale (E1-9). They carry badges, they have a blue "blood stripe" down their leg.. Gimme a friggin break... This stuff does more to boost their own ego than it does to deter anyone..
Quoting Dash8Driver16 (Reply 14):
I had a similar Idea for TSA the other day. Since military veterans are having hard times finding jobs why not make TSA an organization that will hire military veterans?

Actually at my airport, the majority of the TSA agents *are* former military, having served in various capacities in different branches of the service. Needless to say, they're also competent at their jobs, but it's also a very small airport.
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
varigb707
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:55 am

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 3):
The use of badges and uniforms that appear to be like that of police/LEO's is part of the intentional intimidation appearance our politicans and many citizens want to discourage terrorists. Most people tend to behave more obediently to those that look like LEO's vs. glorified security guards and that is seen as a psylogical edge to be able to do their job.

I can agree with that. But some of the TSA officers take their job to an extreme. I personally have not had any problems with any one of them. And i do travel quite a bit. I always take off my shoes; put my notebook on a separate bin, yadda, yadda, yadda...

Cheers.
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swa4life
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:52 am

Quoting JBo (Reply 20):
Actually at my airport, the majority of the TSA agents *are* former military, having served in various capacities in different branches of the service. Needless to say, they're also competent at their jobs, but it's also a very small airport.

Indeed, and I'm sure those agents in particular are probably competent. My suggestion is to close off "hiring" of TSA agents as it is today and ONLY work within the confines of the military or law enforcement. Because while they probably do hire preferentially for military folks, I happen to know first hand that they hire a lot of s*** bird civilians too. I'd like to see something more along the lines of staffing the airport checkpoints with actual Army guardsmen reservists.
 
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JBo
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:04 am

Quoting swa4life (Reply 22):
Indeed, and I'm sure those agents in particular are probably competent. My suggestion is to close off "hiring" of TSA agents as it is today and ONLY work within the confines of the military or law enforcement. Because while they probably do hire preferentially for military folks, I happen to know first hand that they hire a lot of s*** bird civilians too. I'd like to see something more along the lines of staffing the airport checkpoints with actual Army guardsmen reservists.

I agree completely that airport security should be an actual law enforcement role, much like other federal agencies, and should involve the recruitment and hiring of former military personnel. It would make a much more efficient and structured agency than the bureaucratic mess we have now.
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
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zippyjet
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:21 am

Quoting comair25 (Thread starter):
Was watching HLN on AFN and their was a short about a Bill that was proposed that would strip the TSA of their badges and the title "officer".

With all the Republicans in Congress and big business, it will never happen. TSA and Homeland are the brain farts I meant brain childs of the W /Chaney admin.
I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
 
steeler83
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:33 am

Quoting Dash8Driver16 (Reply 14):
I had a similar Idea for TSA the other day. Since military veterans are having hard times finding jobs why not make TSA an organization that will hire military veterans? provides jobs to people who have past security experience as well as a sense of respect for individuals. Most TSA agents i come across at these podunk out stations are...just plain rude/have a overinflated sense of self worth in their current position. Maybe it is that they get to carry a badge but they don't really provide me a sense of security since what would they do if someone walked in with a gun and shot them all and then proceeded airside?(was brought up by one of our FFDO's) They don't really provide security they should be know as the Transportation Screening Administration. I think stripping them of their badges and title of officer is a great idea.

In that regard, why not just dismantle the entire useless TSA (they suck ass) and replace it with military personnel. Our national security would actually make sense -- handled by the D.O.D instead of "homeland security"

I agree with you 110 percent about the rudeness and sense of self-worth. My wife and I experienced that in SEA in April of this year. They went through her container of corn starch she uses to mix with a beverage to take for her medication (she has a rare metabolic disorder affecting her liver and her body's ability to compound glucose.) She even had a note from her doctor indicating what her condition was and that she required containers of cornstarch. The TSA agents just didn't give a damn. They held us up for over 20 minutes, fumbled around with her corn starch to do some analytical bullcrap (yeah, it's CORN STARCH, in a containor labeled ARGO CORN STARCH!) They treated us like a couple of drug dealing thugs, and we ended up missing our flight by 2 minutes.

BTW, as of early September, I have an insulin pump. Security at the 9-11 memorial saw that I had a pump, asked me if it was a pump. I said it was, and he said, "ok, come on through." That guy deserves a medal! Watch, I'll try my luck with the TSA and they'll be after me like I'm a walking stick of dynamite.

"Sacrafice freedom for security, and you have neither freedom nor security."

- Benjamin Franklin.
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
spartanmjf
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:55 am

NO TSA employee of any rank deserves the honor inherent in wearing a badge of any type. Period.
"Nuts to the man in 21D!"
 
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zippyjet
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:01 am

Quoting spartanmjf (Reply 26):
NO TSA employee of any rank deserves the honor inherent in wearing a badge of any type. Period.

I'd let them wear a badge that says dumbass or doofus.

But, some of the rent a cop companies make the TSA look like the best thing since the mini skirt for hot women. There's one company I shall not name that gets their jollies off acting like they are the big shit on campus and harrass us airline employees. Many of them have foreign accents that makes understanding them a challenge. I'll leave it at that.
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m11stephen
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:37 am

Does anyone remember how horrendous the private security firms contracted by the airlines before 9/11 were? The TSA is a VAST improvement over those. I agree that the TSA is awful and needs to make major changes but the TSA is still a HUGE improvement over Argenbright security and the like who would forge background checks and hire felons and foreigners who barely spoke English to perform airport security. At least every TSA agent I have talked to is able to fluently speak English. It seemed like when the airlines were in charge of their own security all they cared about was doing it as cheaply as possible. Apparently they figured that it would be cheaper to pay off any lawsuits resulting from any accidents or attacks (like 9/11) then actually pay to have real security in the first place.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 18):
The system works well, and I personally believe that the competance of the people from the private security firm is much higher than the people that TSA have working at airport checkpoints.

Supposedly Globe Airport Security Services, the private firm contracted to carry out screening at SFO, has a significantly lower failure rate (20% vs 70%) then the TSA does. The TSA needs to make HUGE changes, no doubt, and be accountable for it's unacceptable failures but it is a, albeit, small step in the right direction.

Some TSA agents need to get learn their place. They are NOT law enforcement they are airport security screeners. Their job is to screen passengers following very clear guidelines. They are not at any time to use physical force against a passenger or force someone into being screened. If a passenger at any time refuses to be screened or is uncooperative the TSA is to call the airport police and let them handle the situation.
My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
 
vegas005
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:05 am

We should use the military to do the job. Well trained young men and women with discipline and a superior officer watching over at all times. Works well in may countries and could work in the USA too.
 
Maverick623
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:40 am

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 28):
is still a HUGE improvement over Argenbright security and the like who would forge background checks and hire felons

Oh, you mean felons like the one that works for TSA at an airport that was forced to issue him a SIDA badge, on the threat of TSA pulling out?

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 28):
Apparently they figured that it would be cheaper to pay off any lawsuits resulting from any accidents or attacks (like 9/11)

Oh for the love of Pete  

9/11 would NOT have been prevented by TSA, not least of all because the weapons used were ALLOWED back then. Oh, and TSA's ~75% failure rate during tests at many airports is far worse than the ~20% failure rate at contracted airports.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
Maverick623
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:17 am

Quoting vegas005 (Reply 29):
Works well in may countries and could work in the USA too.

Federal law prohibits it.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
wn700driver
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:04 am

Quoting swa4life (Reply 22):

Indeed, and I'm sure those agents in particular are probably competent. My suggestion is to close off "hiring" of TSA agents as it is today and ONLY work within the confines of the military or law enforcement. Because while they probably do hire preferentially for military folks, I happen to know first hand that they hire a lot of s*** bird civilians too.

In theory, maybe. But are you trying to imply that s***birds are somehow limited to the civilian sector? Because my own time in the USN would suggest that there are at least as many of that type currently in uniform as there are in the private sector. Not trying to poo-poo on the folks in uniform or anything, but this idea that putting on a uniform in exchange for a hefty benefits package somehow benights one to a hallowed status is at odds with reality, PC or otherwise...

Having that been said, I don't have a problem with your idea per se, but if so implemented, it would need to be something actually governed by an armed forces division, rather than some typical preferential hiring cake job for military dischargees looking for work. What I've seen in places like AMS or TLV suggest that that would not be so far-fetched.
Base not your happiness on the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. No Hope = No Fear
 
jimbobjoe
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:01 am

Quoting vegas005 (Reply 29):
We should use the military to do the job

This would be a terrible use of well-trained personnel. It's like having a computer scientist do data entry.

On a day to day basis, the job is insanely boring. 50% of the job is customer service (which is not necessarily a speciality of military personnel) and the other 50% of the job is mind-numbing procedure (an essential but disliked part of military service.)

In the end you could argue that anyone who would be good at the job would never work at it.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:13 pm

Quoting JHCRJ700 (Reply 19):

I heard somewhere that there is a bill in the works to re-define the legal definition of rape and under the new definition some of what the TSA does would be considered rape. Not sure if it's the same bill mentioned above.

That is the FBI who redifined the definition of rape. It is the first change in that criminal activity since 1929.

TSA Agents are not cops or LEOs. For them to wear a badge cheapens the badge worn by real cops. TSA Agents and Spiecalists are simply Screeners, nothing more and nothing less. They continually fail their own TSA inspections and tests when an inspector tries to get something packed in the bag through. The Agents do perform full body scans, including strip searches, and often brag about it if it is a very good looking woman. They have been touching Grandmothers and small children in places that would send the rest of us to jail for sex crimes. They are a PC organization as they will not 'profile' those groups who traditionally been terrorists. They play a numbers game by being able to say "we completed XXX number of 'enhanced' screenings of airline passengers this month". The problem is one of those may have been your wife, mother, or 3 year old child, Catholic Nuns, and it may even have been you if you are just a white male. So, in effect, the TSA does 'profile' groups, just not the same groups El Al does.
 
Oshkosh1
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:50 pm

Flying out of ATW/GRB quite often I find that the TSA people I've dealt with there are never a problem. I fly to Hi-Power rifle matches with a couple of match grade AR-15's and M1-A's which obviously is a little out of the ordinary at first look. However, once they see that I not only have no ammuntion(I shoot the same handloads as the rest of my team, they have plenty for me if I need to fly), and I have them broken down(I hand them the firing pins...which then get stuffed into my gear bag)many times we start talking about shooting as many of them are former Army/Marines. Once they're satisfied I'm no threat...I proceed with no problems whatsoever.

NOW...

At SOME of the larger-returning-airports...THAT is a different story.

I once had a TSA employee at DAL find it unusual that I would have traces of...wait for it..."explosive residue" INSIDE of my gun cases. IMAGINE THAT!!!  Wow!  Wow!

I said something to the effect of "um, yeah...it's a rifle, it shoots a bullet propelled by GUNPOWDER, and because gunpowder does not burn completely...it will leave traces of nitro-cellulose".

He made a big production about it...then got "his boss".

"His boss" then came out from behind the curtain, asked me a couple of questions...rolled his eyes, apologized, and
FINALLY let me carry on.

I guess it's just luck of the draw sometmes!
C-150/2, 172, 177, 182, 209, Beech King Air, Convair 580, Twin Otter, RJ, CRJ, ERJ B717,27,37,47,57,67,77. DC8,9,10. MD8
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:55 pm

Quoting jetblast (Reply 12):
The employee's position is represented by the number of stripes on their epaulet, their name tag also states what their rank is.

Reminds me an old, old joke from the communist era about cops, who as the backbone of the regime were passionately hated back then and given their role in totalitarian society they recruited only people with certain "qualities". They had stars back then to show their rank. The joke went like this: one star - he knows how to read, two stars - he knows how to read and write, three stars - he knows how to read and write and knows someone who knows how to make a phone call.

Quoting Dash8Driver16 (Reply 14):
Most TSA agents i come across at these podunk out stations

From my limited experience in recent years, TSA people at provincial airports like TRI, AVL, ITO or LIH seem very reasonable and definitely less arrogant and power-tripping than their colleagues at major airports like JFK, ORD or LAX.
 
T5towbar
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:34 pm

Quoting swa4life (Reply 8):
How about this for a wild idea.. Staff the TSA with actual trained military or law enforcement agents?... Implement rigorous training and education on the laws and how to deal with certain sketchy issues.. One of most pressing issues I hear about all the time is that former military people are having trouble finding work after being discharged.. There ya go..
Quoting swa4life (Reply 8):
How about this for a wild idea.. Staff the TSA with actual trained military or law enforcement agents?... Implement rigorous training and education on the laws and how to deal with certain sketchy issues.. One of most pressing issues I hear about all the time is that former military people are having trouble finding work after being discharged.. There ya go..

The TSA is such a clown show. They even work off of a military pay grade type scale (E1-9). They carry badges, they have a blue "blood stripe" down their leg.. Gimme a friggin break... This stuff does more to boost their own ego than it does to deter anyone..
Quoting ckfred (Reply 18):
In Chicago, security at the federal buildings is handled by a private security service that the U.S. Marshal's Service oversees. The Marshal's Service performs background checks, oversees training, develops procedures, etc. All of the people who man the security checkpoints on the first floor, and provide extra security for high profile trials have law enforcement backgrounds (former MPs/SPs or local law enforcement), and they carry firearms and handcuffs. The Deputy Marshalls handle criminal defendants going to and from the federal lock-up, as well as people being brought from state and federal prisons to testify.

The system works well, and I personally believe that the competance of the people from the private security firm is much higher than the people that TSA have working at airport checkpoints.

How many Federal buildings do they cover? You are talking about many airports here.

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 25):
In that regard, why not just dismantle the entire useless TSA (they suck ass) and replace it with military personnel. Our national security would actually make sense -- handled by the D.O.D instead of "homeland security"

It would be a good thing to do since there will be a drawdown of troops coming back from Iraq. But training troops from a killing force to a policing force would be a lot of work, and armed troops covering airports in uniform as screeners would involve some legal and civil issues, I'm quite sure. I personally like the idea, but I don't think it has a chance. And of course, the costs of that project as well.

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 28):
Does anyone remember how horrendous the private security firms contracted by the airlines before 9/11 were? The TSA is a VAST improvement over those. I agree that the TSA is awful and needs to make major changes but the TSA is still a HUGE improvement over Argenbright security and the like who would forge background checks and hire felons and foreigners who barely spoke English to perform airport security. At least every TSA agent I have talked to is able to fluently speak English. It seemed like when the airlines were in charge of their own security all they cared about was doing it as cheaply as possible. Apparently they figured that it would be cheaper to pay off any lawsuits resulting from any accidents or attacks (like 9/11) then actually pay to have real security in the first place.

Everybody knows that the TSA is a very convienent target for criticism, and in some cases rightlfully so. But the bottom line is that most security firms have badges. That shouldn't be the issue.

The main question is who is going to pay for specialized police or military trained (even though you have former military persons in the TSA) security? That cost a lot of money for the scope and volume of work. Nobody wants to address that, especially our Congress critters.

They are a vast improvement over some private security firms. Remember Wackenhut?
At least with the TSA, you have some standardization in the screening process. But people don't like the pat downs and invasive screening. It's like damn if they do and damn if they don't. How much are the taxpayers willing to pay? How much the airlines willing to pay? The suggestion the Congress (since they appropriate the money) is how to improve the TSA? No one wants to address that one. Is Pistone the permanent director of the TSA, or still acting? I remember Congress wouldn't confirm a permanent director.
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kc135topboom
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:00 pm

If the question is about the TSA's actual competence in security matters is, then ask your self, "does the TSA protect Congress?" Do they protect the President? Do they protect the US Supreme Court? Do they in fact protect ANY federal buildings, property, or officials? How many acts of terrorism have they caught (shoe bomber, underwear bomber, etc.)? If they were to 'catch a terrorist', what would they do to him/her (this one's easy, they can do nothing but call the local or state police)?

The answers to these simple questions tell me the TSA is just a side show for public consumption to think the government is doing something to protect the public.

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kgaiflyer
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:52 pm

Quoting swa4life (Reply 8):
How about this for a wild idea.. Staff the TSA with actual trained military or law enforcement agents?... Implement rigorous training and education on the laws and how to deal with certain sketchy issues.. One of most pressing issues I hear about all the time is that former military people are having trouble finding work after being discharged.. There ya go..

An excellent idea. I'm surprised no one's thought of it before.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:09 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 38):
then ask your self, "does the TSA protect Congress?" Do they protect the President? Do they protect the US Supreme Court? Do they in fact protect ANY federal buildings, property, or officials?

That's not their job... their name is the Transportation Security Administration. There's an entirely separate police force within DHS, the Federal Protective Service, that handles most federal facilities.
 
T5towbar
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RE: Bill To Strip TSA Of Badges?

Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:09 pm

The Secret Service is under the Treasury Department, not the Department of Justice which the Federal police is under, like the FBI and the Marshals Service. Customs and Border Patrol is now under the DHS. Thank the prior administration for creating this and the "color coded" terror threats.

Having the military do actual policing on a civilian property has legal issues like the Posse Comitatus Act.
You would have to be under actual martial law first. But this does not include a Governor using his states National Guard doing the actual Police work at an airport under an emergency. They are still not screening bags though. Neither does Airport Police. US Customs has their own screening to do.

Like I keep saying before, how much are you willing to pay for actual LEO's to do this?
What next, Blackwater or another mercenary force doing it? People will still complain if they are too invasive, and may do something worse since they will be armed. Plus, they get a "cost plus" contract which will be a lot more expensive than you think.

I would like to see the military involved someday to increase and improve standards of an improved TSA. There has to be a balance of civil liberties though. To train someone who has been in the military to kill, and then deal with many different types of civilians will be a new challenge for them. Everybody isnt rhe enemy now. But as all things go, it's about money, plain and simple.

No one on this board has made any common sense suggestions on how to improve the TSA that I have heard. Besides the obvious, like the removal of shoes, and the fluid ban, and the general attitude, how can they improve on?
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