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Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:09 pm

Hi All,

Following on from the previous 2 threads it is now time to do one last update for the year, the previous can be found here;

Airbus And Boeing 2011 Orders (by PanAm_DC10 Apr 14 2011 in Civil Aviation)
Airbus And Boeing 2011 Orders Part 2 (by PanAm_DC10 Aug 15 2011 in Civil Aviation)

With Dubai now past and December the final month there is a lot to update before we get the final numbers by mid January, 2012. This is as most accurate as possible though please note some conversions may not be accounted for, just the small 1 or 2 frames that can be harder to track.

This update is through to November 30th for what appears on the Airbus O&D sheet and December 6th for Boeing, the 2 most latest updates published by them.

Airbus

Firm


AirAsia - 200 A320neo
AirAsia X - 3 A330-200
Air Lease Corp - 1 A321, 4 A330-200, 3 A330-300
Air Pacific - 3 A330-200
ALAFCO - 50 A320neo, 6 A350-900
American Airlines - 130 A321neo
Asiana Airlines - 6 A380-800
Avianca / Tampa - 4 A330-200F
Aviation Capital Group - 30 A320neo
BOC Aviation - 1 A330-300
China Aviation Supplies Holding Company (CASG) - 46 A320
Cathay Pacific - 15 A330-300
Cebu Air - 7 A320, 30 A321neo
CIT - 50 A320neo, 1 A330-200, 1 A330-300
Garuda Indonesia - 15 A320, 10 A320neo, 4 A330-300
GECAS - 3 A320, 60 A320neo, 12 A330-300
Go Air - 72 A320neo
Hawaiian Airlines - 5 A330-200
Iberia - 8 A330-300
ICBC Financial Leasing Co., Ltd - 42 A320
ILFC - 75 A320neo, 25 A321neo
Indigo - 30 A320, 150 A320neo
JetBlue - 40 A320neo
Korean Air - 5 A330-200
LAN Airlines - 20 A320neo
LAO Airlines - 2 A320
Lufthansa - 4 A320, 25 A320neo, 5 A321neo, 1 A330-300, 2 A380-800
MTAD - 3 A330-200 *
Private Customers - 1 A319, 1 A319
Private Customers - 1 A318, 1 A319
Private Customers - 1 A318
Qantas Airways - 32 A320, 78 A320neo
Qatar Airways - 6 A319neo, 30 A320neo, 14 A321neo, 5 A380-800
Saudi Arabian - 4 A330-300
SAS - 30 A320neo
Singapore Airlines - 15 A330-300
SkyMark Airlines - 6 A380-800
Star Flyer - 3 A320
TAM Linhas Aereas - 4 A320, 22 A320neo, 6 A321
Thai - 5 A320, 4 A350-900
Thomas Cook Airlines Scandinavia A/S - 12 A321
Tibet Airlines - 2 A320
TUI Travel Aviation Finance Ltd - 2 A330-300
Turkish Airlines - 10 A321, 3 A330-200F
Transaero Airlines - 8 A320neo
TransAsia - 6 A321neo

Cancellations and Changes

03 - A318
06 - A319
79 - A320
02 - A330-200
12 - A330-200F
02 - A340-500
05 - A350-800
24 - A350-900
10 - A380-800

Minus 143

Conversions

Air Astana - 6 A319 to 4 A320 and 2 A321
Air China - 5 A320 to 5 A321
Air Lease Corporation 1 A320 to 1 A321
Aer Lingus - 3 A330-300 to 3 A350-900
Avianca - 6 A319 to 6 A320
Aviation Capital Group - 7 A319 and 4 A321 to 11 A320
CASG China - 2 A320 to 2 A319
CASG China - 50 A320 to 11 A319, 19 A320, 20 A321 for China Eastern
CASG China - 30 A320 to 10 A320, 20 A321 for China Southern
CIT - 3 A320 to 3 A321, 3 A350-800 to 3 A350-900
Garuda Indonesia - 3 A330-200 to 3 A330-300
Hong Kong Airlines - 1 A330-200 to 1 A330-300
ILFC - 6 A350-800 to 6 A350-900
JetBlue - 30 A320 to 30 A321
KLM - 1 A330-200 to 1 A330-300
LAN - 3 A319 to 3 A320
Synergy Aerospace - 10 A350-800 to 10 A350-900
TACA International 3 A319 to 3 A320
TAP Portugal - 12 A350-800 to 12 A350-900
Undisclosed - 9 A320 to 9 A321
Undisclosed - 2 A330-300 to 2 A330-200
US Airways - 6 A320 to 6 A321

Other adjustments and notes since last update

* MTAD - Reduced by 1 to 3 from 4 since initial July 25 order.
Jackson Square Aviation - 1 A320
Virgin America - 1 A320

Frontier changed their A319Neo / A320Neo order to 20 A319Neo & 60 A320Neo, announced as firmed though it's yet to appear on spreadsheet so it remains pending.

Kingfisher cancelled their 2 A340-500s and are also exiting the Budget side of the business, this may influence their outstanding A320 orders www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5267890/

Pending

AirAsia - 100 A320neo*
AF/KLM - 25 A350-900
Air Lease Corporation - 20 A320neo, 16 A321neo, (14 Neo options)
Air Namibia - 2 A319
ALAFCO - 30 A320neo, (Announced at Dubai as options to be firmed by year end)
American Airlines - 130 Mix of A319 / A321oeo - not all will be new as coming from new and existing leasing co orders **
Avianca TACA - 18 A320, 33 A320neo
China Eastern - 15 A330
Comlux - 1 A321CJ
Frontier - 20 A319neo, 60 A320neo
Spirit Airlines - 30 A320, 45 A320neo
Sichuan Airlines - 2 A319, 4 A320, 2 A321 (Possible conversion from CASGC)
Transaero - 4 A380-800
Undisclosed - 10 A380-800 widely reported as HNA Group. (Hong Kong Airlines expect 1st delivery of 4 in 2013***)
Volaris - 14 A320, 30 A320neo


** Pending Bankruptcy Court approval and for details of pre CH-11 filing refer AA Makes A319 And A321 Selection Official (by AAIL86 Nov 21 2011 in Civil Aviation) also many will be from existing leasing company orders.
*** Refer to the following thread for details www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5314010

For those keeping a tab on Neo orders, from Airbus

With these bookings, firm orders for the A320neo Family reached 1,196, ordered by a total of 21 customers

Virgin America, 30 booked December 2010, 1166 on the books this year, 20 customers, that gives you their number of 1196 from 21 customers. There are an additional 354 pending including the extra 100 AirAsia said they would take but they have been very quiet on that and plus the Frontier order.

That's 1196 plus 354 to give total firm orders and pending commitments for all models of the Neo family at 1550 or 1450 if you exclude AirAsia.

*As pending, not much has been heard of since initial announcement but Tony Fernandes does drop a few hints.
** For AA as it is not known exactly how many are coming from leasing companies.

Airbus

Totals


Gross - 1521
Net - 1378
Pending - 611

Boeing

Firm


Aeroflot - 16 777-300ER
Alaska Airlines - 2 737-800, 13 737-900ER
Air Lease Corporation - 24 737-800, 5 777-300ER, 4 787-9
American Airlines - 100 737-800, 6 777-300ER
Arik Air - 2 747-8i
Aviation Capital Group - 20 737-800
BDS USAF Tanker - 4 767-2C
BBJ/VIP Customers - 1 737-700BBJ, 1 737-800BBJ, 1 737-800BBJ, 1 747-8i BBJ
Cathay Pacific Airways - 8 777F, 14 777-300ER
Continental Airlines - 11 737-900ER
Delta Air Lines - 100 737-900ER
Dubai Aerospace Enterprise - 5 777F
El Al Israel Airlines - 4 737-900ER
Emirates - 50 B777-300ER
Ethiopian Airlines - 4 777F
Etihad Airways - 3 777-300ER
FedEx - 4 777F
GECAS - 2 747-8F, 2 777F, 16 777-300ER
ILFC - 33 737-800
Korean Air - 2 737-900ER, 2 747-8F, 2 777-300ER
LAN Airlines - 8 767-300ER
Lufthansa Cargo - 5 777F
Malaysia Airlines - 10 737-800
MIAT Mongolian - 2 737-800, 1 767-300ER
Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA - 15 737-800
Oman Air - 6 787-8
Qatar Airways - 2 777F, 8 777-300ER
Singapore Airlines - 8 777-300ER
TAM - 2 777-300ER
Thai - 6 777-300ER
Turkish Airlines - 10 737-800, 5 737-900ER
Turkmenistan Airlines - 2 777-200LR
Unidentified Customers - 5 737-700, 2 737-800, 12 777F, 16 777-300ER
United States Navy - 13 737-800A
UTair - 33 737-800, 7 737-900ER
Virgin Australia Airlines - 3 737-800

Cancellations and Changes

74 737
08 747
02 777
32 787

Minus 116

Conversions

Aeroflot - 2 777-200ER to 2 777-300ER
Alaska Airlines - 2 737-800 to 2 737-900ER
American Airlines - 1 777-200ER to 1 777-300ER
Aviation Capital Group - 5 737-700 to 5 737-800
China Southern - 19 737-700 to 19 737-800
Continental - 8 737-700 to 8 737-900ER
GECAS - 2 777-300ER to 2 777F
ILFC - 34 787-8 to 34 787-9
Korean Air - 10 787-8 to 10 787-9
Lion Air - 15 737-900ER to 15 737-800
Vietnam Airlines - 8 787-8 to 8 787-9
Qatar Airways - 1 777-200LR to 1 777-300ER

Icelandair have disposed of the 3 787-8s they had on order to Norwegian Air Shuttle.
Oman Air and ALAFCO were much the same as this for their 6 787-8


Other adjustments and notes since last update

China Eastern Airlines will cancel their 15 787-8 and take 45 737s
Shanghai Airlines will also cancel their 9 787-8
China Cancel 24 787 - Orders Below 800 (by oykie Oct 17 2011 in Civil Aviation)
This one is still worth its own thread if you look at all the activity from China in relation to the 787 this year.

Saudi Arabian Airlines are in the market for 50 frames, from both OEM's, the 10 777-300ERs listed as pending will remain so given clear statements from the carrier earlier this year.

Transaero also added an MoU for the 747-8i Transaero Signs For 747-8I As Well (by RubberJungle Nov 8 2011 in Civil Aviation)

EVA Air have 10 777s on order refer reply 123 www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/ge..._aviation/read.main/5231056/1/#123

9 777-300ER are listed for AA but that is likely 10 now based on a pre CH-11 report.

The 767 may receive a boost from FedEx Express based on the following report Bloomberg: FedEx May Order 30 767s Next Week (by PITrules Dec 7 2011 in Civil Aviation)

The 737MAX has gained momentum with close to 800 commitments, 3 identified customers out of 12 and it is now 100 days since Boeing introduced the MAX www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5329726/ with Lion Air taking the headlines

Pending

Air China - 5 B747-8i
AF/KLM - 25 787-9
American Airlines - 2 B777-300ER, 100 737Max*
Aviation Capital Group - 35 737Max****
British Airways - 2 777-300ER**
China Southern - 6 777F**
EVA Air - 10 777, some freighters breakdown not known, for a part **
Hong Kong Airlines - 6 777F**, 2 787BBJ, 30 787-9
Indian Navy - 12 737-800 to increase their P-8 order to 24 It is a civil frame so is listed
Lion Air - 29 737-900ER, 201 737-9Max****
LAN - 4 767-300ER***
Saudi Arabian Airlines - 10 777-300ER
Transaero - 4 747-8i
Unidentified - 15 747-8i reported to be HNA Group - Hong Kong Airlines
Xiamen Airlines - 6 787-8

Note - the pending total does not include approximately 464 737Max from 9 customers mentioned in the link above as we don't publicly know the breakdown for each....yet.

*Pending bankruptcy court approval
** Possible undisclosed
*** No further confirmation, if not firmed this month it will be removed
**** Pending formal launch.

Boeing

Totals


Gross - 643
Net - 527
Pending - 504

Clarifications are welcome and these numbers, when looked at over the year, really do tell a great deal about the industry this year and how the two OEM's have benefited, but that's for another thread. maybe even 2 or 3...

For those interested in orders from other OEM's please refer to ATR, BBD, EMB, Etc Orders 2011 Take 2 (by iceberg210 Jun 27 2011 in Civil Aviation)

Thanks and regards

Paul
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
Someone83
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:22 am

http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=2066

10 787-9 and 2 777F for Etihad according to Boeing
 
chiad
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:45 am

Hi Paul

I know this is getting old but ... thank you so much!
  
 
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:57 am

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 1):
10 787-9 and 2 777F for Etihad according to Boeing

Good news for GE.
 
JerseyFlyer
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:04 pm

Amazing how mnany of the conversions are moving UP a size. Airlines must have more confidence in economic recovery in the nmedium term than most news soiurces!
 
Burkhard
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:16 pm

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Reply 4):
Airlines must have more confidence in economic recovery in the nmedium term than most news soiurces!

They see bookings going up, cargo getting more, real economy growing, and not what those news agencies owned by those who profit billions in every crisis want us to believe...

I just saw that LH tranported 6.4% more pax this November than last year. There is no crisis.

Back to topic, next year we can expect there will be massive orders for Boeing, they easily can reach 1000 for the MAX next year, while Airbus just by booking the pendings and selling normally can come near to 1000 too.

[Edited 2011-12-12 06:19:11]
 
MoltenRock
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:26 pm

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Reply 4):

Or more likely the just chose the smaller model originally for smaller deposits and only converted them to the larger model as the production dates came onto the horizon.
 
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:09 pm

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 1):

They appear to be new too so we can add them as pending, more available for discussion at the following thread;

Etihad Airways Orders 10 787-9 & 2 777F (by fpetrutiu Dec 12 2011 in Civil Aviation)

Southwest are announced as launch customer for the MAX with a firm order for 150 plus another 58 737NGs. All new as Boeing's statement says they now have 13 737MAX customers and over 900 orders and commitments for the models. More available for discussion at;

Southwest Order 150 737MAX + 58 737NG (by AAplat4life Dec 13 2011 in Civil Aviation)

Update for Boeing

Gross - 643
Net - 527
Pending - 724

Of note, the Southwest order which Boeing Commercial have announced is the largest firm order in dollar value and number of airplanes in their history. The third time since Dubai they have attained their largest dollar value order based on list prices. Lion Air's commitment for 201 MAX plus 29 NG's is also in that region for number of units and dollar value.
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
Someone83
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:05 pm

You can add 27 767-300F to FedEx  

Still have to wait and see if Boeing firms them when they update their weekly orders later today
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:13 pm

Quoting someone83 (Reply 8):
You can add 27 767-300F to FedEx

And 2 777F.
 
ljupco
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:47 pm

Congrats to Airbus!
This is definitely AIRBUS year
keep going....   
 
Hamlet69
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:45 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 9):
And 2 777F.

And Boeing just hit 200 gross 777 orders this year! (if firmed)


Paul,

I forgot to bring this up earlier, but Boeing had quite a few 737 model conversions in Nobember. I can't remember them all now, but I know AS converted 2 more -800's to -900ER's (now up to 19) and a UFO customer converted 9 -800's to -700's.


Regards,

Hamlet69
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OldAeroGuy
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:12 pm

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 11):
Quoting seabosdca (Reply 9):
And 2 777F.

And Boeing just hit 200 gross 777 orders this year! (if firmed)

Per today's Boeing's Order website, 2011 777 orders have hit 200 net (202 gross).
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
Hamlet69
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:24 pm

Just saw that. Firmed today:

- Southwest 150 737MAX & 58 737NG
- Etihad 2 777F & 10 787-9
- FedEx 27 767-300F & 2 777F
- Unidentified 2 777


Also, identified the formerly UFO:

- China Southern Cargo 6 777F
- Hong Kong Airlines 6 777F


Regards,

Hamlet69
Honor the warriors, not the war.
 
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Polot
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:03 am

I'm just amazed that Boeing has managed to sell 40 767s this year, making it the 3rd best selling widebody after the 777 and A330. Especially interesting that the 767/A330 replacements, the 787 and A350, both have negative net orders so far this year as well.
 
Hamlet69
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:15 am

Just a p.s. to my previous post - in his blog update today, Boeing's Randy Tinseth 'dropped' that the 2 Unidentifieds booked this week are 777F's.

Quoting polot (Reply 14):
Especially interesting that the 767/A330 replacements, the 787 and A350, both have negative net orders so far this year as well.

It will be interesting to see if Boeing can book Hong Kong Airlines' 32 787's this month, finally giving that program a net positive YoY orderbook. . .


Regards,

Hamlet69
Honor the warriors, not the war.
 
qfa787380
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:46 am

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 15):
It will be interesting to see if Boeing can book Hong Kong Airlines' 32 787's this month, finally giving that program a net positive YoY orderbook. . .

Would also be nice if they snagged another 748I customer to get that into net 2011 positive territory!
 
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:54 am

Quoting ljupco (Reply 10):
This is definitely AIRBUS year

Not for widebodies. Boeing is WAY ahead.
 
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:31 am

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 15):
It will be interesting to see if Boeing can book Hong Kong Airlines' 32 787's this month, finally giving that program a net positive YoY orderbook. . .

AF's order would also do the trick (and bring the A350 close to net 0 assuming they would firm both at the the same time). It would be great if they could book both, that would push the 787 over the 767 in terms of net orders.
 
Julian773
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:19 am

Quoting PM (Reply 17):
Not for widebodies. Boeing is WAY ahead.

  

The 777 is really doing great! Roughly a third of the B orders are widebodies!

Congrats to both Airbus and Boeing for a good year!


ps: how many of the total Boeings were ordered after the 737MAX was announced?
 
chiad
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:21 am

Quoting PM (Reply 17):
Not for widebodies. Boeing is WAY ahead.

That's for sure. Only 71 net order compared to Boeing's amazing 227.
I think Airbus is still a head by total net orders value but not by much now.
Do anyone know that list prices for the NEOs and MAX' ?
 
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:32 pm

Quoting Julian773 (Reply 19):
ps: how many of the total Boeings were ordered after the 737MAX was announced?

The 737MAX was announced August 30th, and since that time has logged ~413 orders. I am probably missing a few small orders here and there from early December, but Boeing's site only goes up to November for user defined reports and I don't feel like figuring out all the orders from December. 251 of those orders were from this week (it really was a good week for Boeing).
 
mffoda
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:07 pm

Quoting qfa787380 (Reply 16):
Would also be nice if they snagged another 748I customer to get that into net 2011 positive territory!

Transaero ordered 4 in November... Maybe those will get finalized??
harder than woodpecker lips...
 
chiad
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:48 pm

Quoting polot (Reply 21):
The 737MAX was announced August 30th, and since that time has logged ~413 orders

Mind you the MAX awaits a rush of orders, but so far the only order is from Southwest (150 frames).
 
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:02 pm

Quoting Chiad (Reply 23):

Mind you the MAX awaits a rush of orders, but so far the only order is from Southwest (150 frames).

I was referring to total Boeing orders, not 737MAX orders specifically.
 
chiad
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:06 pm

Quoting polot (Reply 24):
I was referring to total Boeing orders, not 737MAX orders specifically.

Ah .. I see.
No doubt that Boeing has had a fantastic second half!
December will prove interesting. I hope Boeing can net positive over the whole product line with some last minute orders for the B787 and B747.
 
mffoda
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:22 pm

Paul,

I was just scanning the numbers from your very detailed order breakdown above, and noticed something very interesting regarding "737NG" sales this year. When you add up all the Firm NG orders to date, you get 412 + the now firm 58 (SWA) = 470 NG frames to date. I had not realized how many NG's were sold this year, considering all the NEO/MAX interest.

Additionally: There are 45 for China Southern, 29 for Lion Air and 12 for the Turkish AF that have not been booked as of yet. So (possibly) 470 + 86 = 556 NG's

When you consider that the remaining unidentified MAX customers will most likely be ordering some NG's as well? It is absolutely amazing how many NG's were ordered this year!   

By comparison:

The A320oeo has 229 Firm + 55 pending = 284oeo's... This does Not include AA's 130 A319/321oeo's. But as you have stated, many of those birds will come from existing leasing companies. (no way to tell yet how many will be new builds?)

Anyway, I just found this to be an interesting view, aside from the normal NEO/MAX Hype we hear all the time...

Regards,

[Edited 2011-12-17 15:36:55]
harder than woodpecker lips...
 
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:46 pm

Quoting mffoda (Reply 26):
When you consider that the remaining unidentified MAX customers will most likely be ordering some NG's as well? It is absolutely amazing how many NG's were ordered this year!     

I wish I'd made a bet with a certain a.net member who was very confident nine months ago predicting that Boeing could not possibly match the 486 sales they secured in 2010 and would be lucky to sell half as many in 2011 as my prediction turned out to be the correct one.

   
 
mffoda
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:11 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 27):
I wish I'd made a bet with a certain a.net member who was very confident nine months ago predicting that Boeing could not possibly match the 486 sales they secured in 2010 and would be lucky to sell half as many in 2011 as my prediction turned out to be the correct one.

That a-net member wouldn't happen to have a white cross in the middle of a red background on the flag next to his name... would he?  
harder than woodpecker lips...
 
B738FlyUIA
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:03 am

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
Pending
............
Transaero - 4 747-8i

Is there any info when Transaero will confirm the order for the 4 747-8I?

Thx
 
ebbuk
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:40 pm

Quoting mffoda (Reply 26):

I am no expert regarding these figures but I would suggest that NG sales would be higher by virtue of the fact that the MAX that replaces it has a later EIS than the NEO.

Nothing sensational just normal business.
 
Someone83
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:32 pm

No changes in Boeing weekly updates this week. So now we have to wait for early January for the final order comfirmation from 2011
 
astuteman
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:46 pm

Quoting ebbuk (Reply 30):
I am no expert regarding these figures but I would suggest that NG sales would be higher by virtue of the fact that the MAX that replaces it has a later EIS than the NEO.

If I assume that both manufacturers will grow output until it peaks at 500 per year (just a working assumption), then based on the information currently provided, I make it that there could be as little as 250 A320 classic slots left, if the NEO ramps up to 100% of output by the end of 2018.

On the same assumptions, I get 1 250 737NG slots left, simply by dint of it being planned to enter service about 2 years later than the NEO.

That would certainly imply that 737NG sales will outpace A320 classic sales going forward.

It would also suggest that it will be unlikely for the MAX to catch, or overtake the NEO in sales, for exactly the same reason, irrespective of the relative quality of the two offerings

Rgds
 
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kanban
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:57 pm

Transaero 4 787's reported in it's own thread but not here

From the release http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...ransaero-to-take-four-787s-366371/ , it's hard to say if this is acknowledged by Boeing as a sale or as a MOU.
 
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Polot
Posts: 4610
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:18 pm

Quoting kanban (Reply 33):
Transaero 4 787's reported in it's own thread but not here

Boeing is not updating their spreadsheet anymore this year, and will release any orders received from Dec 20 to Jan 1 in early January, so we won't know if it is firmed or not until then.
 
col
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:24 am

Quoting mffoda (Reply 26):
When you consider that the remaining unidentified MAX customers will most likely be ordering some NG's as well? It is absolutely amazing how many NG's were ordered this year!

Orders and deliveries for the old girl have been fantastic this year. The 737, the gift that keeps giving!!
 
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Stitch
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:58 pm

Pending PanAm_DC10's official update, Boeing secured 805 net orders for 2011, adding 2 767-300ERs and 25 787-9s for Unidentified Customer(s) in the last week of December.
 
ebbuk
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:02 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 36):
Pending PanAm_DC10's official update, Boeing secured 805 net orders for 2011, adding 2 767-300ERs and 25 787-9s for Unidentified Customer(s) in the last week of December.

Well it certainly isn't over till the fat lady sings. Boeing pushed through orders of hundreds of planes in the last month. Not sure JL could even achieve so many that close to deadline day.
I can imagine a lot of late nights getting those contracts water tight before deadline date plus a sprinkling of financial inducements et voila, sterling work from Boeing.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:22 pm

Boeing and Airbus both tend to secure a nice chunk of orders in the final weeks of each year.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:23 pm

Quoting ebbUK (Reply 37):
I can imagine a lot of late nights getting those contracts water tight before deadline date plus a sprinkling of financial inducements et voila, sterling work from Boeing.

See, they DID learn something from Airbus.  

-Dave
-Dave
 
OldAeroGuy
Posts: 3185
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:27 pm

Interestingly, the total number of 777NG (-200LR, -300ER & F) sales through the end of 2011 stand at 787.

Must be in honor of the sister airplane's EIS.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
ebbuk
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:24 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 39):
See, they DID learn something from Airbus.

They did do a lot but Boeing didn't get the 10 748i that they trumpeted at Le Bourget, forcing Airbus to announce their MOU for 10 A380s. What a farce that was. So unnecessary given their year end totals
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:46 pm

Quoting ebbUK (Reply 41):
Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 39):
See, they DID learn something from Airbus.


They did do a lot but Boeing didn't get the 10 748i that they trumpeted at Le Bourget, forcing Airbus to announce their MOU for 10 A380s. What a farce that was. So unnecessary given their year end totals

???

Not sure what your point is in relation to me. Have a good one.

-Dave
-Dave
 
wolbo
Posts: 409
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:58 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 38):
Boeing and Airbus both tend to secure a nice chunk of orders in the final weeks of each year.

True, although for 2011 Airbus has been remarkably quiet in the final part of the year compared to previous years. No frantic last minute announcements. Given their large order intake in 2011 and their lead over Boeing it makes sense for Airbus to save up some orders for this year or at least not chase them as hard as they otherwise would.



[Edited 2012-01-05 15:07:27]
 
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Stitch
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:02 pm

Quoting ebbUK (Reply 41):
They did do a lot but Boeing didn't get the 10 748i that they trumpeted at Le Bourget, forcing Airbus to announce their MOU for 10 A380s. What a farce that was. So unnecessary given their year end totals

So the customer - or in this case, the customer's country - is slow on signing the paperwork and it's Boeing who is the a**hole?

W'ever.



Quoting wolbo (Reply 43):
True, although this year Airbus is remarkably quiet in the final part of the year compared to previous years. No frantic last minute announcements. Given their large order intake this year and their lead over Boeing it makes sense for Airbus to save up some orders for next year or at least not chase them as hard as they otherwise would.

Well the usual a.net conspiracy theory is that Airbus waits until Q1 of the following year to announce the previous year's order total so they can see how many orders Boeing gained, compare that to their own total, and then "back book" orders from Q1 as necessary to beat Boeing.

Boeing should have a commanding win in 2012 thanks to the 737MAX, but if they somehow don't, I suppose a new a.net conspiracy theory will appear that Airbus, if they know they have won for a year before the end of said year, will "hold" orders from the previous year to apply in the next to ensure they win.  

[Edited 2012-01-05 15:12:25]
 
ebbuk
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:28 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 42):
Not sure what your point is in relation to me. Have a good one.

Sorry not sure myself either, I'm getting a bit quote happy in my old age, my apologies.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 44):
So the customer - or in this case, the customer's country - is slow on signing the paperwork and it's Boeing who is the a**hole?

W'ever.

Come on it was pretty pooey PR. the airline said nothing, was never going to say anything at that time. Boeing were scratching their heads with little to do at Le Bourget and they sprung a stunt for an order that was no where near ready, given the said nation's procedures when it comes to orders.

Calm down Randy, I mean Stitch. It's in the past and no harm was done. Boeing had a good orders year and most of us have forgotten the tawdry affair and left the year on a high. Cheers
 
Stressedout
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:29 am

RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:01 am

Quoting ebbUK (Reply 45):
Calm down Randy, I mean Stitch.

How ironic. Stitch is far less biased in his posts than most others.

Your obvious bias does nothing to maintain civility on this forum.

[Edited 2012-01-05 16:06:16]
 
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Stitch
Posts: 22952
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:13 am

Quoting ebbUK (Reply 45):
Come on it was pretty pooey PR. the airline said nothing, was never going to say anything at that time. Boeing were scratching their heads with little to do at Le Bourget and they sprung a stunt for an order that was no where near ready, given the said nation's procedures when it comes to orders.

At Paris Boeing announced two UFO orders for the 747-8 (later identified for W3), two orders for the 747-8F from GECAS and 15 UFO commitments. Everyone is assuming these 15 commitments are for HX, but Boeing never stated who the customer was and they never stated it was an order. After Boeing announced the commitments, Airbus announced an MoU for 10 A380-800s from HX.

Boeing policy towards orders placed by CAAC-controlled carriers is to announce the order only after CAAC has assigned the order to a Chinese flag carrier. Airbus' policy is to announce the order as soon as CAAC signs it and then updates it later once CAAC has assigned the orders to a Chinese flag carrier.

So both companies appear to have followed their usual form when dealing with orders / MoUs / LoIs with CAAC-controlled Chinese flag carriers and neither appears to have dabbled in "pretty poor PR".

[Edited 2012-01-05 16:17:09]
 
ebbuk
Posts: 844
Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:47 am

RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:19 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 47):
At Paris Boeing announced two UFO orders for the 747-8 (later identified for W3), two orders for the 747-8F from GECAS and 15 UFO [b]commitments/b]. Everyone is assuming these 15 commitments are for HX, but Boeing never stated who the customer was and they never stated it was an order. After Boeing announced the commitments, Airbus announced an MoU for 10 A380-800s from HX.

Ok so can we safely say, without drama, that Boeing made an announcement for 748i's which didn't make the 2011 books?
 
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Stitch
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RE: Airbus And Boeing Orders 2011 Part 3

Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:27 am

Quoting ebbUK (Reply 48):
Ok so can we safely say, without drama, that Boeing made an announcement for 748i's which didn't make the 2011 books?

Yes, but they made that announcement in the form of a commitment (which is evidently an MoU/LoI with a deposit check), not an order and therefore that said commitment was not converted to an order in 2011 should not be considered a sign of Boeing "trying to pull a fast one" anymore than, say, Airbus being accused of "pulling a fast one" by announcing an MoU for 10 A380-800s to HX that do not appear were converted to an order in 2011, either.



After all, if 15 747-8 commitments is a big deal, what about the 1000+ 737MAX commitments Boeing secured in 2011, while only recording 150 orders? 

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