Kiwinlondon
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Delta To AKL?

Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:28 pm

With DL flying to SYD and with UA restarting AKL next year from IAH. Does anyone see any hope of DL serving AKL in the future, Maybe ATL/LAX - AKL - MEL/SYD/BNE?

Kiwinlondon
 
nascarnut
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RE: Delta To AKL?

Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:49 pm

The could possible operate a LAX-AKL-MEL flight as US carriers have traffic rights between NZ and Australia whereas operating a SYD-MEL tag as UA does they cannot pick up any passengers ex SYD. It would be nice to see another carrier into AKL.
I believe we may see HA operating HNL-AKL before we see DL though.
 
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Zkpilot
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RE: Delta To AKL?

Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:05 pm

I highly Delta it. Lol. But seriously I only see this happening if DL stops its direct Oz flights or if it's relationship with VA breaks down. The market will be pretty busy with UA entering it and NZ likely to add another North America destination with the 789.
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ordbosewr
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RE: Delta To AKL?

Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:33 pm

UA can carry local traffic between SYD and MEL. I have taken it as a 'domestic' flight in Australia.
The problems for attracting the local traffic is that it is considered international for everything else. So passengers need to deal with an international flight within Australia. It is much more convenient to take Qantas or Virgin. Not to mention UA has 1 flight a day.
I took it because of a corporate ticket issue that did not allow me to take any Australian carrier.

UA at one time did not have the SYD tag but rather had the AKL-MEL as the routing to get to MEL.
 
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NZ107
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RE: Delta To AKL?

Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:37 pm

Quoting ORDBOSEWR (Reply 3):
UA can carry local traffic between SYD and MEL. I have taken it as a 'domestic' flight in Australia.

Since when? Last I knew, it was similar to US cabotage rules.
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tayser
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RE: Delta To AKL?

Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:42 pm

Quoting ORDBOSEWR (Reply 3):
UA can carry local traffic between SYD and MEL. I have taken it as a 'domestic' flight in Australia.

you cannot buy a ticket to Sydney from Melbourne with UA or vice versa.

The only scenario I can think of where you thought you were getting a domestic flight would have been a break in your UA schedule in SYD (LAX-SYD-MEL, stay in MEL, then MEL-SYD stayed in SYD, then boarded a few days later SYD-LAX).

it's the same with QF LAX-SYD-LAX. You can stopover in LAX on a return Australia-LAX-JFK ticket.

And on topic, I doubt DL would do well if they tagged on to MEL from AKL given their partner airline already flies non-stop - DL only need to fly 3-4 times a week on the days VA don't fly it to get a daily service LAX-MEL-LAX.
 
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n901wa
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RE: Delta To AKL?

Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:52 pm

How about ATL-HNL-AKL with a 767ER?   If HAL doesn't beat Delta to a HNL-AKL.
 
tayser
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RE: Delta To AKL?

Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:55 pm

^ furthermore, the same thing could happen with DL and BNE. 2x 77Ls - one to MEL and one to BNE, daily services on VA/DL LAX-MEL and LAX-BNE and double daily services LAX-SYD (1 daily each). There's no DJ/VA domestic feed in NZ anymore and would rely solely on DJ/VA across the Tasman where DJ/VA are in bed with the incumbent - specifically on Trans Tasman flights and codesharing in each other's respective domicile, looking less and less likely.
 
DLNZ
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RE: Delta To AKL?

Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:40 pm

Quoting n901wa (Reply 6):
How about ATL-HNL-AKL with a 767ER? If HAL doesn't beat Delta to a HNL-AKL.

Couldn't agree more, but I believe that HA will be in this market in 2-3 years. It's a risk, as the assumption of the NZD buying above US$0.65-0.70 is crucial if the Hawaiian Islands are to remain resurgent for New Zealanders as they have been in the past 2 years. The seasonality of demand and filling the J cabin would also be of concern to HA/DL or anyone else looking at the route.

I think this is far more likely for DL, as much as I would love to see them in AKL.....
Quoting tayser (Reply 5):
DL only need to fly 3-4 times a week on the days VA don't fly it to get a daily service LAX-MEL-LAX
 
B4REAL
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RE: Delta To AKL?

Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:05 am

Quoting n901wa (Reply 6):
How about ATL-HNL-AKL with a 767ER?   If HAL doesn't beat Delta to a HNL-AKL.

For a long time, I have "armchaired" that route as well as:

HNL-SYD
HNL-MEL
HNL-TPE
HNL-AKL
HNL-CNS

DL could use their beloved 763 on the route. Was hoping to have seen this post NW.
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lax777lr
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RE: Delta To AKL?

Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:43 am

AKL is low yield relative to the corporate travel to SYD and MEL, so 1) business travelers to Oz don't want a stop and 2) low yield is tough to make work with a long-haul route. I don't see it happening.
 
davescj
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RE: Delta To AKL?

Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:24 am

If DL were to get the 787 (in the distant future) could DL pull off LAX-AKL-western Australia route?

Dave
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staralliance85
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RE: Delta To AKL?

Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:28 am

I can see Delta doing LAX-AKL-MEL, if their relationship breaks up with Virgin. Without Virgin, Delta would have to rely on their future ST partner AR from AKL to SYD. ST is the weakest alliance in Oceania and I hope Virgin Australia joins ST.
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steex
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RE: Delta To AKL?

Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:31 am

Quoting tayser (Reply 5):
The only scenario I can think of where you thought you were getting a domestic flight would have been a break in your UA schedule in SYD (LAX-SYD-MEL, stay in MEL, then MEL-SYD stayed in SYD, then boarded a few days later SYD-LAX).

The only other possibility I can think of would be if he flew UA intra-Australia immediately after the Ansett shutdown.
 
nzrich
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RE: Delta To AKL?

Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:41 am

Quoting staralliance85 (Reply 12):
I hope Virgin Australia joins ST.

With NZ now holding a big stake in VA i highly doubt we will see VA join sky team more likely Star ,
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eaglefarm4
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RE: Delta To AKL?

Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:02 am

There was a article in the Australian newspaper a few weeks ago where Borghetti stated that any additional flights to Australia does not have to be by Virgin, as Delta can operate those flights.Apparently talks are continuing in regards to this and he stated watch this space.

The inference was that not just Sydney but Brisbane and Melbourne could also be in line for Delta flights.
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ZKOJH
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RE: Delta To AKL?

Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:28 am

would they make it work is the 100$ question , Daily with QF A332 and twice a day with NZ 77W plus the option of of FJ through NADI,
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alitaliadc10
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RE: Delta To AKL?

Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:52 am

Delta does have on its radar a future ATL-AKL service as well as both BNE and MEL...so John Borghetti is right - watch this space  
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QFA380SYD
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RE: Delta To AKL?

Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:12 am

I think that Delta would make more money by going LAX-SYD-AKL. If they did LAX-AKL-SYD they would loss demand and money because who want's to stop over at AKL when you can go direct from LAX-SYD.
I also think that Delta could make more money on LAX-BNE or LAX-MEL.
But it would another 5 years or so before they operate into AKL. Also remember that Delta just got into the North American Australasia route 2 years ago.
 
QFA380SYD
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RE: Delta To AKL?

Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:14 am

I think that Delta would make more money by going LAX-SYD-AKL. If they did LAX-AKL-SYD they would loss demand and money because who want's to stop over at AKL when you can go direct from LAX-SYD.
I also think that Delta could make more money on LAX-BNE or LAX-MEL.
But it would another 5 years or so before they operate into AKL. Also remember that Delta just got into the North American Australasia route 2 years ago.
 
qf002
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RE: Delta To AKL?

Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:25 am

What about ATL-AKL-SYD-ATL? Competitive boost in face of QF to DFW, competitive advantage by beating UA out of IAH and potential to connect efficiently out of AKL with VA flights.
 
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RE: Delta To AKL?

Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:35 am

I think possibly ATL-AKL-MEL/SYD/BNE would work. If NZ can carry plenty of Australian passengers via AKL then I can't see why DL couldn't on either VA or DL aircraft
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kiwiandrew

RE: Delta To AKL?

Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:36 am

I could be wrong, but I just don't see it as a sufficiently interesting route for DL. I would expect them in BNE or MEL before AKL. There just isn't that much of a market, and I would think that there must be a lot of routes where they could get a better return on their investment.
 
flyingalex
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RE: Delta To AKL?

Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:41 am

Quoting dlnz (Reply 8):
The seasonality of demand and filling the J cabin would also be of concern to HA/DL or anyone else looking at the route.

This would be less of a problem for Hawaiian - their A330s are configured 18F276Y and their B763s are 18F235Y or 18F252Y. The configuration of Delta's aircraft are more premium-heavy, for example the internationally configured B763 has 30 Business/31 Economy Comfort/143 Economy. Given those numbers and the nature of the market, I think HA is in a better position to make money on HNL-AKL.
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ZK-NBT
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RE: Delta To AKL?

Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:32 am

I'm an optimist when it comes to airlines to AKL and being realistic I think DL is a good chance of flying to AKL from ATL or LAX.

ATL-AKL would give competition to UA's new IAH-AKL and QF DFW service while also taking pax away from LAX for those travelling from the Eastern US. This would be a 77L service and could connect to DJ's Tasman services.

LAX-AKL. Remember UA flew this route for years along with NZ and QF all being 744s for years, they gave it up in a deal with NZ to stop LAX-SYD at the same time, NZ have since added SFO and YVR services taking some of the slack from the reduction in LAX flights. QF these days don't seem to do aswell with AKL-LAX and now fly A332s. DL could fly this route with a 77E or a 744 the former more likely, I don't believe their A332s would be capable, QF's struggle and are more capable then DL's I believe.

As for DL to MEL and BNE, from what I gather DL will soon replace VA on LAX-MEL (not officially announced yet) with a 77L, with SYD to possibly get 744s when they are upgraded with VA's 77W used to increase BNE-LAX.

I think HA are a good chance to serve AKL aswell which will open up new 1 stop options to some destinations in the US plus the AKL-HNL market seems to be growing again slowly with NZ adding albeit seasonal capacity.
 
tayser
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RE: Delta To AKL?

Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:08 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 21):
I think possibly ATL-AKL-MEL/SYD/BNE would work. If NZ can carry plenty of Australian passengers via AKL then I can't see why DL couldn't on either VA or DL aircraft

....argh   

Virgin Australia has an codeshare/revenue/schedule/whatever agreement with Air New Zealand for Trans Tasman.
Virgin Australia has an codeshare/revenue/schedule/whatever agreement with Delta for Trans Pacific.

Delta flying to Auckland then on to Australia with Virgin Australia codes will probably circumvent the agreement they have to code/revenue (whatever it is) with Air New Zealand... therefore Delta would have to rely on O&D to make it work (unless there was an agreement with NZ which is highly unlikely given the biz they would get from AC and UA).
 
Flyingsottsman
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RE: Delta To AKL?

Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:39 am

Quoting ORDBOSEWR (Reply 3):
UA at one time did not have the SYD tag but rather had the AKL-MEL as the routing to get to MEL.

Yeah that stopped when UA pulled out of AKL mid 2000s I think and went back to make MEL a tag on to the SYD flight. I cant see DL comming to MEL but I reacon AKL could be a real possiabilty with in the next 2 years. But would love to see Delta here in MEL.
 
B4REAL
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RE: Delta To AKL?

Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:53 pm

Quoting QFA380SYD (Reply 18):
I think that Delta would make more money by going LAX-SYD-AKL

No way, if LAX-SYD is full; why add a tag-on? Now, if the route removes lower fare buckets to SYD for higher through fares to AKL; yeah sure.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 20):
What about ATL-AKL-SYD-ATL?
Quoting QFA380SYD (Reply 19):
I think that Delta would make more money by going LAX-SYD-AKL.
Quoting qf002 (Reply 20):
What about ATL-AKL-SYD-ATL? Competitive boost in face of QF to DFW, c
Quoting 777ER (Reply 21):
I think possibly ATL-AKL-MEL/SYD/BNE would work.

Do the 77L have the legs for that route?
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qf002
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RE: Delta To AKL?

Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:05 pm

Quoting tayser (Reply 25):
Delta flying to Auckland then on to Australia with Virgin Australia codes will probably circumvent the agreement they have to code/revenue (whatever it is) with Air New Zealand... therefore Delta would have to rely on O&D to make it work (unless there was an agreement with NZ which is highly unlikely given the biz they would get from AC and UA).

I agree it's an issue, but surely it's easy to get around. The flights don't need to have DL's code on them, so it would be as simple as the passengers being VA passengers. It's been done before -- QF codeshares with numerous airlines on flights that come under the BA-QF JBA (ie AY, MU etc).
 
qf002
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RE: Delta To AKL?

Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:30 pm

Quoting b4real (Reply 27):
Do the 77L have the legs for that route?

It should do. The longest routes today are pretty short considering it's capabilities, and it would be in the top 5 longest flights by distance. Should only be about 16.5 hours though.
 
B4REAL
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RE: Delta To AKL?

Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:57 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 29):
Should only be about 16.5 hours though.

"ONLY" LOL!!!
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mpdpilot
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RE: Delta To AKL?

Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:52 pm

Quoting b4real (Reply 27):
Do the 77L have the legs for that route?

Going off of Boeings Detailed Technical Data, it would have to take a 15,000lb weight penalty on the SYD-ATL leg, though due to enroute winds that may not be required, it really depends on the day I am sure.

I could actually see Delta adding these at some point:

ATL-AKL-SYD-ATL Daily
LAX-BNE 3x Weekly
LAX-MEL 4x Weekly

These I also think would just enhance the relationship with Virgin Australia.
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DL747400
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RE: Delta To AKL?

Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:21 am

Quoting eaglefarm4 (Reply 15):
The inference was that not just Sydney but Brisbane and Melbourne could also be in line for Delta flights.

DL services to BNE and MEL were under active consideration even prior to the inaugural LAX-SYD flights. Had it not been for the economic turmoil since late 2008, we'd have already seen one or both of the flights in operation. There were many routes that were placed on hold when the economy began to head south.
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