GT4EZY
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KL Axing AMS-LPL

Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:34 pm

It appears that KL are axing AMS-LPL from the end of the Winter season.
Proud to fly from Manchester!
 
Pe@rson
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RE: KL Axing AMS-LPL

Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:37 pm

I must try to fly the F70 (never flown that machine before) that's utilised on that route with fares from just £39 one-way.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
FlyingHollander
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RE: KL Axing AMS-LPL

Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:53 pm

What's your source? It would be a shame if it were true.
If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much.
 
lhr380
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RE: KL Axing AMS-LPL

Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:57 pm

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 1):
I must try to fly the F70 (never flown that machine before) that's utilised on that route with fares from just £39 one-way.

Getting on one this Saturday LHR AMS  
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
kl911
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RE: KL Axing AMS-LPL

Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:23 pm

Quoting FlyingHollander (Reply 2):
What's your source? It would be a shame if it were true.

Yes, I would like to see a source as well. Altough I can believe it will happen with MAN just nextdoor. There are plenty of places in Europe that require a 2 hour train ride or car journey to get to an International airport. Is easyjet still flying LPL-AMS multiple times a day? That would be enough for pure O&D I guess.
 
David_itl
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RE: KL Axing AMS-LPL

Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:56 pm

Quoting FlyingHollander (Reply 2):
What's your source?

from their facebook page:

From March 25, 2012, KLM will discontinue its service to Liverpool. Unfortunately this route has not been profitable, and given the current economic situation we have decided to stop the operation.

(you have to look for a Mike Whitney post and that's the response)
 
KWI
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RE: KL Axing AMS-LPL

Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:11 pm

There's an article in the latest issue ot Business Traveller Magazine that talks about the links AMS has with the UK airports (esp the ones outside London). I think it was a spokesperson from Liverpool Airport who mentioned the importance of the KLM flight as it was vital for the intercontinental connections it provides.

Shame to see it go
 
David_itl
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RE: KL Axing AMS-LPL

Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:19 pm

also it's on the BBC website quoting KLM's UK General Manager Henri Hourcade :

"However, the continued economic downturn has meant that as a company we have had to make some tough decisions across our global network and unfortunately Liverpool is a casualty of that process."

LPL seeking an alternative high frequency service to a hub airport. Might not be that easy to get as the ones that may be tempted are LH (with the MAN links being only 4 daily FRA and 3 daily MUC, they may consider it too risky to dilute the MAN service. Plus I don't think they'll have that many spare ERJ145s/CRJs to launch the route) and AF (no chance as given KL is owned by them)
 
JU068
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RE: KL Axing AMS-LPL

Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:22 pm

Actually Business Traveller Magazine even has an article on it...

http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/klm-to-drop-liverpool-services
 
GT4EZY
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RE: KL Axing AMS-LPL

Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:36 pm

Sorry, it was on the Liverpool Echo website.
Proud to fly from Manchester!
 
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DanTaylor2006
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RE: KL Axing AMS-LPL

Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:40 pm

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 1):
I must try to fly the F70 (never flown that machine before) that's utilised on that route with fares from just £39 one-way.

That's what I've done, taking a flight in January!

I got very worried when I heard! Then saw it was March 25th... my booking is safe!
 
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eurowings
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RE: KL Axing AMS-LPL

Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:50 pm

That's a shame, the impression I got was that the service was doing reasonably well. Although, I will admit that LPL's website was full of KLM promotional material, which did make me a little bit suspicious if I'm honest.

I travelled on this route once and the load factor was 50-60% on an F70. The removal of this service will mean that LPL is now once again a 'low-cost only airport' - FR, EZY, W6 and BE only.

Quoting david_itl (Reply 7):
LPL seeking an alternative high frequency service to a hub airport. Might not be that easy to get as the ones that may be tempted are LH (with the MAN links being only 4 daily FRA and 3 daily MUC, they may consider it too risky to dilute the MAN service. Plus I don't think they'll have that many spare ERJ145s/CRJs to launch the route) and AF (no chance as given KL is owned by them)

I'd rule out AF for obvious reasons, as well as BA/IB. LH seem to be increasing their UK presence with new routes to LGW and ABZ, however, I am not convinced they would be tempted by LPL. One plus would be that a LPL to FRA service would receive O&D traffic as well as connections since their is no low cost competition against LPL-AMS where EZY is well established. However, I am still not convinced.

The City of Liverpool has a direct rail service to Manchester Airport, which also serves the station closest to LPL. The road links are perfectly adequate as well, I have travelled LPL to MAN in about 40 minutes on a clear run by taxi (when a flight was diverted). I know people like to use their local airport, but if KL can't make a 'connection service' work (they are very experienced with services to many small UK regional airports) then I am not sure if anyone can.
"Freddie Laker may be at peace with his Maker, but he is persona non grata with IATA."- HRH Duke of Edinburgh
 
B17GUNNER24
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RE: KL Axing AMS-LPL

Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:05 pm

I live in Liverpool and often go spotting at LPL and i often go there for the evening KLM cityhopper fokker 70 to come in and i love it. I am so sad to see it go!       .
The sky is a open space for the raw power of jets to roam free
 
LondonCity
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RE: KL Axing AMS-LPL

Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:34 pm

Quoting EuroWings (Reply 11):
That's a shame, the impression I got was that the service was doing reasonably well. Although, I will admit that LPL's website was full of KLM promotional material, which did make me a little bit suspicious if I'm honest.

I wouldn't read too much into this. Other regional airports reliant on KLM (eg Norwich, Humberside,Durham) also feature KLM ads on their home pages.

But the axing of the route is a real loss for Liverpool. It meant that the city would feature on the international aviation map which is important for a potential business person in, say China or N America. who might be planning a trip to the UK and who might not be well acquainted with UK geography. Of course, Easyjet will still ply between Liverpool and Amsterdam but it does not interline with other long-haul carriers at Schiphol.
 
LTUMD11
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RE: KL Axing AMS-LPL

Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:49 pm

This article makes me wonder if MME Durham Tees Valley- AMS service will be axed next. On a day when the airport is officially "For Sale" a similar pull out from my local airport would without doubt spell the beginning of the end for DTV. I sincerely hope i'm wrong but i must admit, i fear the worst!
 
Viscount724
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RE: KL Axing AMS-LPL

Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:58 pm

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 1):
I must try to fly the F70 (never flown that machine before) that's utilised on that route with fares from just £39 one-way.

One of my favourite aircraft types. I was on 2 KL F70s a week ago AMS-DUS-AMS, plus one unexpected F100 on AMS-GVA (last minute substitution for the scheduled Embraer 190). The KL F70s always look like new inside and out and in my opinion have the most comfortable Y class seats of any KL aircraft, short or longhaul. Pitch is a bit tight but the seats themselves are much nicer than the new lightweight almost unpadded seats so common on many newer aircraft.

Coincidentally, the crew on the DUS-AMS F70 was then operating AMS-LPL-AMS. It was a 100% British crew (pilots and cabin crew), obviously ex-KLMuk (ex-Air UK). I always find it a little strange to fly on a KLM flight on a Dutch-registered aircraft where where not one of the crew speaks Dutch. That still seems to be fairly common on KL City Hopper flights. They use recordings for the Dutch announcements.
 
GT4EZY
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RE: KL Axing AMS-LPL

Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:09 pm

Quoting HansHubers (Reply 17):
Glad to hear that, haha! Anyhow, in the end easyJet is the winner of this all I guess...

I'm not entirely sure. I think most pax on the KL would have been transfer pax and those who made a point of travelling KL for full service benefits will probably use MAN.
Proud to fly from Manchester!
 
Luftymatt
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RE: KL Axing AMS-LPL

Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:42 pm

Really gutted to hear this, but at least KL gave it a go. I guess being 30 miles down the road from MAN is going to affect the service.
I wish LPL luck with finding an alternative hub carrier.
chase the sun
 
MH017
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RE: KL Axing AMS-LPL

Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:28 pm

More cancellations coming down for Summer 2012:

2nd IAH flight (eff 20jan12 already)
MIA
MXP but will be changed to LIN only
MNL will not be served non-stop anymore but via 1 stop in Asia...
don't throw away tomorrow !
 
flycro
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RE: KL Axing AMS-LPL

Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:39 pm

How about starting SOU-AMS. We need something better than BE.
 
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EPA001
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RE: KL Axing AMS-LPL

Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:46 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 15):
One of my favourite aircraft types. I was on 2 KL F70s a week ago AMS-DUS-AMS, plus one unexpected F100 on AMS-GVA (last minute substitution for the scheduled Embraer 190). The KL F70s always look like new inside and out and in my opinion have the most comfortable Y class seats of any KL aircraft, short or longhaul. Pitch is a bit tight but the seats themselves are much nicer than the new lightweight almost unpadded seats so common on many newer aircraft.

Exactly my thoughts. I have flown the KLM F70 and the occasional F100 to Leeds/Bradford for more then a year on a weekly basis. I now fly on a weekly basis to Hamburg (also KLM) where the Monday morning flight is on the F70, and the Thursday return flight is with the Embraer 190. The Embraer is a very nice modern plane, but the seats can not withstand the comparison with those installed in the F70/F100 in the KLM fleet.

Too bad that they can not sustain AMS-LPL but that flight always looked a lot more quiet to me then the flights to Leeds/Bradford I was on.

[Edited 2011-12-15 13:47:58]
 
european742
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RE: KL Axing AMS-LPL

Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:59 pm

How about starting SOU-AMS. We need something better than BE.

Very true, it would be nice to see someone else in SOU but BE do have an interline agreement with KL, if you book through an agency like expedia, you can have your baggage checked through to your final destination but we cannot issue a boarding pass, you would need to keep your bag tag receipt and show your ticket or confirmation and tag receipt at the KL transfer desk, quite straight forward really, we get this quite alot but should there be disruption, it is a case of contact your agent as BE dont have an agreement where they can re-book KL flights and vice versa and we sometimes get pax with a 1 hour connection in AMS.
 
Jonathanxxxx
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RE: KL Axing AMS-LPL

Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:01 pm

Quoting MH017 (Reply 22):

Source?
 
MH017
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RE: KL Axing AMS-LPL

Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:33 am

Quoting jonathanxxxx (Reply 26):
Source?

Internal AF-KL document
don't throw away tomorrow !
 
AI
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RE: KL Axing AMS-LPL

Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:50 am

I live equidistant(ish) from MAN & LPL. Even though I usually end up flying from MAN because of the connections possible from there, if there is a choice from LPL I prefer that due to the ease of security, parking etc.
Have travelled LPL-AMS-OSL last summer & it was very convenient.
I will miss it.

AI.
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: KL Axing AMS-LPL

Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:21 pm

Quoting AI (Reply 29):
ease of security, parking etc.

Security is a sham, always understaffed and officious numpties making it as slow and arduous as possible at LPL.

The arrivals "hall" is a disgrace.

Parking, what a joke; the most expensive drop off fees in the country.

Multi-storey parking. What a delight to use at LPL when it's wet; park up, then, with luggage, navigate across the often flooded, windswept, uncovered road system and drop-off lanes to get to check-in.

"LPL" and "ease" do not go hand in hand.

It's a dump, done on the cheap for those who want to fly on the cheap. KLM never had a chance.

Rgds
So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
 
Jonathanxxxx
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RE: KL Axing AMS-LPL

Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:24 pm

Quoting goldorak (Reply 27):

That's what I was thinking....

Quoting MH017 (Reply 28):

But then why would they raise the frequency if they are going to cancel it?
 
SASMD82
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RE: KL Axing AMS-LPL

Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:56 pm

Quoting jonathanxxxx (Reply 31):
Quoting MH017 (Reply 28):


But then why would they raise the frequency if they are going to cancel it?

Is it Delta that will take over this route?
 
LondonCity
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RE: KL Axing AMS-LPL

Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:34 pm

Quoting european742 (Reply 25):
How about starting SOU-AMS. We need something better than BE.

Suckling Airways used to ply this route and it interlined with KL at Schiphol. I too wonder why KL is not present on this route now as there are pax living to the West and Southwest of the capital who would prefer to use SOU in preference to LHR.
 
MH017
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RE: KL Axing AMS-LPL

Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:04 pm

Quoting jonathanxxxx (Reply 31):
But then why would they raise the frequency if they are going to cancel it?

Airlineroute.net is not always correct...in the next issue it will be corrected; mark my words !
don't throw away tomorrow !
 
Jonathanxxxx
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RE: KL Axing AMS-LPL

Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:07 pm

Quoting MH017 (Reply 34):

But it's even on the timetable... Are you sure?
 
MH017
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RE: KL Axing AMS-LPL

Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:09 pm

Very sure; Reservation-systems tend to be updated at a slower pace...

Too bad, though, because MIA has one of the highest loadfactors of the United States (91% in November 2011)...guess, yield is very low and also the fact that MIA is not a Skyteam/Delta hub might be a reason for the cancellation...
don't throw away tomorrow !
 
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shamrock604
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RE: KL Axing AMS-LPL

Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:15 pm

Quoting david_itl (Reply 7):
and AF (no chance as given KL is owned by them)

Just because KL cannot make a route work does not mean AF flying to a different hub cannot. Of course, they may surely be put off by each others "horror stories", but each would consider on their own merits.

If I were LPL, i'd be talking with LH right now though - lots of new slots at FRA!
 
David_itl
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RE: KL Axing AMS-LPL

Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:29 pm

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 38):
i'd be talking with LH right now though - lots of new slots at FRA!

This is why I'm discounting it:

Quoting david_itl (Reply 7):
with the MAN links being only 4 daily FRA and 3 daily MUC

KL was operating 5 or 6 daily to MAN at the time so adding LPL was not such a bad idea, especially if they could have got some passengers to transfer allegiance from U2's LPL services and get some of their Merseyside living MAN passengers to use the local service instead.
 
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shamrock604
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RE: KL Axing AMS-LPL

Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:50 pm

Quoting david_itl (Reply 39):
KL was operating 5 or 6 daily to MAN at the time so adding LPL was not such a bad idea, especially if they could have got some passengers to transfer allegiance from U2's LPL services and get some of their Merseyside living MAN passengers to use the local service instead.

Yes, of course that is a fair point, and dilution of an existing service is of course a consideration, but it will come down to how much LH "know" their market. If they are not attracting many Merseyside pax to their MAN flights, than it might well be a worthwhile endevour. LH need to grow in the UK and Ireland markets because slot constraints at FRA have allowed AF/KL to gobble up the market - to remain relevant, LH simply have to grow.

I have my doubts however about any network carrier really making a go of it in LPL. It has become so synonymous with Loco ops, and with a far larger and more diverse MAN just down the road, I feel that LPL may well have forced itself into a niche.
 
YVRLTN
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RE: KL Axing AMS-LPL

Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:15 pm

Quoting david_itl (Reply 7):
LPL seeking an alternative high frequency service to a hub airport

At the risk of opening a can of worms..... but post BD take over, wonder if BA may be interested with all the spare slots acquired for a twice daily service to LHR?

Other option is BE with an interline agreement with KL from AMS. Might be a better route for a Q400 than a Fokker.
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PlymSpotter
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RE: KL Axing AMS-LPL

Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:48 pm

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 41):
Other option is BE with an interline agreement with KL from AMS. Might be a better route for a Q400 than a Fokker.

BE keep out of FR/U2's way, generally they can't compete in a head to head, although BE will sometimes pick up former U2/FR routes when they are dropped.


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GT4EZY
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RE: KL Axing AMS-LPL

Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:55 am

Quoting david_itl (Reply 33):
KL was operating 5 or 6 daily to MAN at the time so adding LPL was not such a bad idea, especially if they could have got some passengers to transfer allegiance from U2's LPL services and get some of their Merseyside living MAN passengers to use the local service instead.

Which is dilution of the MAN service and if i remember correctly, KL have always said that if this occurred, then MAN would always win the day.
Proud to fly from Manchester!