ba319-131
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Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:16 am

According to www.emirates.com

From March 25th the gulf carrier will operate 4 of their 5 daily LHR flights with Airbus A380's.

The only flight still to operate with a 77W is EK008.

Only a matter of time until that becomes an A380 service too.
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cityairline
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:34 pm

Amazing!

The capacity on London-Dubai is huge and it's great to see them grow.
I know yields are good and the service seems very lucrative. But what I do want to know is if this is ONLY a move of prestige and/or to be superior to its neighbour Gulf carriers?
Or are the loads and the need for more capacity actually that great?

/Alex
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B747forever
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:54 pm

Quoting cityairline (Reply 1):
But what I do want to know is if this is ONLY a move of prestige and/or to be superior to its neighbour Gulf carriers?

Well they will have close to 100 A380s, so they need to send them somewhere  
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SKAirbus
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:05 pm

Brilliant. Always good to see more of the Superjumbo...

Qantas is soon going all A380 at LHR and SQ will convert the 77W flight to an A380 soon as well...

With Malaysian launching their A380 to LHR next year and Korean Air most likely sending it to LHR too at some point there are going to be a lot of the birds around.

I wonder if the A380 pier at T3 will be extended to accommodate more aircraft.
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RayChuang
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:46 pm

I still think fairly soon--possibly maybe as early as this summer season!--SQ will switch to the A380-800 on the SQ 001/002 route between SIN and SFO via HKG. Given the huge expatriate population of former residents of Hong Kong living in the Bay Area, this would certainly work.
 
skipness1E
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:55 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 3):
I wonder if the A380 pier at T3 will be extended to accommodate more aircraft

There's not a lot of room and given that whole area needs a complete redevelopment, I would doubt they'd add to it as by the time it was completed, T3 would be the next redevelopment priority. Remember that Malaysia and Korean are over at T4 so there's only a need for QF x 2, EK and SQ on stand at any one time on a normal day.
 
something
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:22 pm

Quoting B747forever (Reply 2):
Well they will have close to 100 A380s, so they need to send them somewhere

They won't. They will have sold off the first ones before the (tentatively) last ones arrive.

Quoting cityairline (Reply 1):
But what I do want to know is if this is ONLY a move of prestige and/or to be superior to its neighbour Gulf carriers?
Or are the loads and the need for more capacity actually that great?

They wouldn't throw these A380s at the market if they couldn't fill them, somehow, but I'm not so sure about..

Quoting cityairline (Reply 1):
I know yields are good and the service seems very lucrative.

LHR is a highly competitive playing ground and everybody is fighting for the customer's favor. Every airline needs to distinguish itself from the rest and if you can offer high frequency, great on board service, a prestigious aircraft and the lowest fares because everybody else has to put up with higher CASMs, then you will make the lives of the competition very hard indeed. I'm not sure it makes money in the short term, but it's a brilliant strategy to cement your position in the longrun.
..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
 
David_itl
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:36 pm

Quoting something (Reply 6):
They will have sold off the first ones before the (tentatively) last ones arrive.

They had stated all will be in service at the same time. At the moment, we're tentatively looking at EK sending at least 7 A380s to the UK by November 2013 (LHR 5 MAN 2). They might be comtemplating upgrading a BHX service by then as well.

Edited as now found a recent link where they are replacing them afer 12 years. "From September through November 2017, a further 75 A380s will be delivered to the Dubai-based airline, and Clark said he would ultimately prefer an operating fleet of more than 90 of the extra-large aircraft. "If we could, but we can't,"". So we have 2.5 years at least with 90 in the fleet (Nov 2017 to 2020) but it also indicates that production may be taken up through from Nov 2017 to 2020 with other airlines so are other orders imminent?

[Edited 2011-12-15 09:01:25]
 
PezySPU
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:37 pm

Quoting something (Reply 6):
Quoting B747forever (Reply 2):
Well they will have close to 100 A380s, so they need to send them somewhere

They won't. They will have sold off the first ones before the (tentatively) last ones arrive.

Thanks for that, I was really wondering how they were going to fill all that capacity. Does anybody know how much A380's will EK actually operate at a time?

EDIT: You were faster david_itl, so I'm still puzzled  Confused

[Edited 2011-12-15 08:39:16]
 
David_itl
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:49 pm

So the A380 can look forward to 90 sales every 12 years then. No doubting the actual A380 programme will be showing a profit as these 1st replacement wave (deliveries to 2029) takes in to 333 and the 2nd wave to 423 (deliveries by 2041), with no other orders being placed. And that's not taking into account EK actually ordering more because they want more.
 
mickey90
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:09 pm

Quoting PezySPU (Reply 8):
Does anybody know how much A380's will EK actually operate at a time?

If they bring their order to 120 a380's you'll probobly see them operate more than 100 at a time.
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PezySPU
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:29 pm

That's just crazy, I can't imagine anything but serious overcapacity. There has to be a catch.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:36 pm

Quoting PezySPU (Reply 11):
That's just crazy, I can't imagine anything but serious overcapacity.

Which some people keep saying. Yet EK's passenger numbers continue to grow year on year and they continue to make profits that most other airlines can only dream about.

Perhaps the catch is that they know what they're doing?   
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Pe@rson
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:39 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 12):
they continue to make profits that most other airlines can only dream about

Absolutely. Here are its net profit (millions, USD) and net profit margin between 2006 and 2010 (with 2006 furthest way):

Net result 1,462.89 963.31 186.78 1,367.54 843.14
Net margin 9.87 % 8.14 % 1.58 % 12.93 % 10.61 %

Quoting scbriml (Reply 12):
Perhaps the catch is that they know what they're doing?

 
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theginge
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:51 pm

Quoting PezySPU (Reply 11):
That's just crazy, I can't imagine anything but serious overcapacity. There has to be a catch.

Remember a lot of these passengers will be transfering in Dubai to other services to Australia, Far East etc, so as these markets grow EK will need to grow the flights such as London that feed them.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:11 pm

LHR slots are too precious to not utilize the A380 there.

Quoting ba319-131 (Thread starter):
The only flight still to operate with a 77W is EK008.

Only a matter of time until that becomes an A380 service too.
Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 3):
Qantas is soon going all A380 at LHR and SQ will convert the 77W flight to an A380 soon as well...

With the lack of the 3rd runway, the only chance LHR has to accomodate growth is going to be up-gauging to

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 3):
I wonder if the A380 pier at T3 will be extended to accommodate more aircraft.

As already noted, I do not see the room. My impression was T5C, the two gates at T4, and then future gates at the rebuilt T1 would be the extent of LHR A380 gates.

Quoting something (Reply 6):
LHR is a highly competitive playing ground and everybody is fighting for the customer's favor. Every airline needs to distinguish itself from the rest and if you can offer high frequency, great on board service, a prestigious aircraft and the lowest fares because everybody else has to put up with higher CASMs, then you will make the lives of the competition very hard indeed.

EK isn't silly. Since the A380 will attract customers anywhere, they'll send the aircraft where it makes the most money. e.g., why they pulled the A380 (IIRC, since returned) to JFK.

Quoting something (Reply 6):
I'm not sure it makes money in the short term, but it's a brilliant strategy to cement your position in the longrun.

I suspect it is both. The CASM reduction should more than offset any added costs/discountig required by substituting the A380. Now, I do suspect the profit is in providing the seats for more 'secondary city' connections.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 12):
Quoting PezySPU (Reply 11):
That's just crazy, I can't imagine anything but serious overcapacity.

Which some people keep saying. Yet EK's passenger numbers continue to grow year on year and they continue to make profits that most other airlines can only dream about.

Everywhere EK is accused of over-capacity yet they make $$$.

Look at their current fleet. The bulk is 77Ws! Since the A388 will be used on all route lenght, I'll just group by size/capacity
27 A332 (237 in 3-class)
18 A343/A345 (267 or 258 in 3-class)
19 777-200 (3 non-ER, 6 ER, 10LR) (call it 290 in 3-class)
73 777-300 (12 non-ER, 61 ER) (364 in 3-class)
18 (19?) A388 (517 in 3-class, but costs only 445 seats vs. 77W due to lower CASM)

The 'capacity jumps' are certainly managable. When the A332/A343/A345/772 are replaced with A359s (or 77Ws), there will be a need for growth in seats on the existing 'trunk routes.' (Certainly at prefered travel times.) Due to the low CASM of the A388, the jump between the 77W and the A388 is not difficult to manage. If with 42% more seats 22% more revenue is not possible... down-gauge the route again (a la JFK) and hunt for a new yeild manager...

EK has 154 aircraft today (maybe 155? Its tough to keep track of the deliveries). Today about 1/2 the fleet is one size, the 777-300 which used to be their largest airframe. With Concourse 4 and the new terminal where EK will expel everyone else out of Terminal 1... I see EK easily having a fleet of over 200 aircraft. I see no reason to believe about half couldn't be the A388 and the other half the 'feeder fleet.'

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PezySPU
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:22 pm

Quoting theginge (Reply 14):
Remember a lot of these passengers will be transfering in Dubai to other services to Australia, Far East etc, so as these markets grow EK will need to grow the flights such as London that feed them.

Of course, but I just can't imagine that they won't face overcapacity sooner or later, for shorter or longer period of time. It's almost 100 A380's and that's just part of the fleet for God's sake! I do very well understand that they've spent a lot of time and efforts carefully planing their strategy and I understand a lot, but I'm sure that even they themselves are not 100% sure it will work out.

But never mind, we'll see, topic here was 4 daily A380's to LHR.  
 
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yellowtail
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:29 pm

There has got to be room at EK at the bottom end for the likes of the 789 as "route developer planes"
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mickey90
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:02 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 15):
18 (19?) A388 (517 in 3-class, but costs only 445 seats vs. 77W due to lower CASM)

They'll have 20 tomorrow(16/12) as A6-EDS will be delivered to them.  
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something
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:09 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 15):
Quoting something (Reply 6):
LHR is a highly competitive playing ground and everybody is fighting for the customer's favor. Every airline needs to distinguish itself from the rest and if you can offer high frequency, great on board service, a prestigious aircraft and the lowest fares because everybody else has to put up with higher CASMs, then you will make the lives of the competition very hard indeed.

EK isn't silly. Since the A380 will attract customers anywhere, they'll send the aircraft where it makes the most money. e.g., why they pulled the A380 (IIRC, since returned) to JFK.

But this is what I admire about EK. I am sure there are routes that would be more profitable for EK to put an A380 on in the short run, and I am also sure their presence at LHR wouldn't collapse if they didn't put a 4th daily frequency on the route. This move however will pave EK the way for the future at LHR, great market exposure, and will open a huge market share to them.

I wish more airlines had the aggression of EK. Soon every major European airport will see double or triple daily EK A380, and the same can be said about many destinations in Asia, Australia and North America. All the while major carriers like NH, JJ, CX seem over-challenged to operate one of these planes.

Nothing short of amazing.
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AirlineCritic
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:03 pm

Frequency trumps aircraft size, eh? Seems EK has made it work both ways... impressive!

Quoting PezySPU (Reply 16):
Of course, but I just can't imagine that they won't face overcapacity sooner or later, for shorter or longer period of time. It's almost 100 A380's and that's just part of the fleet for God's sake! I do very well understand that they've spent a lot of time and efforts carefully planing their strategy and I understand a lot, but I'm sure that even they themselves are not 100% sure it will work out.

No business enterprise is ever entirely certain. There is risk in every plan, and the companies are aware of this. There is even risk in believing the results that companies show to the rest of the world (just look at Enron). But I would say that EK is exceptionally well positioned to take a big share of passenger traffic on its side of the world, their strategy is solid, and they seem to be executing it better than most other companies. I see no inherent reason why 100 or even 200 is some kind of a fundamental limit. Not all airline companies have to be of the same size. As is seen in other areas of business, more successful companies can take a very big market share while the others shrink or die. Remember that if EK serves a city in Europe, they can shuffle passengers not just from that city to Dubai (which would be a very small number of people), but all over Asia/Pacific/Africa/Middle East. There is unlikely to be enough people to fly a A380 direct from Berlin to Melbourne, but there may be enough people in entire Europe to fly from Dubai to Melbourne on an A380, and there may be enough people in Berlin to fly some place in Asia via Dubai on an A380.

The limits, if there are any, are more in the area of airport capacity and landing rights/traffic rights to particular countries and airports.
 
PezySPU
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:31 pm

Quoting AirlineCritic (Reply 20):
Remember that if EK serves a city in Europe, they can shuffle passengers not just from that city to Dubai (which would be a very small number of people), but all over Asia/Pacific/Africa/Middle East.

I understand hub and spoke model, don't worry. But the rest of your post was informative, thanks.  
 
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Francoflier
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:10 pm

Quoting cityairline (Reply 1):
and/or to be superior to its neighbour Gulf carriers?

More like superior to every other carrier out there operating out of LHR (or anywhere else) going any other place...

If any airport makes a case for the A380, it's LHR. I suspect others will follow, mostly in Asia.
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Viscount724
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:24 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 12):
Quoting PezySPU (Reply 11):
That's just crazy, I can't imagine anything but serious overcapacity.

Which some people keep saying. Yet EK's passenger numbers continue to grow year on year and they continue to make profits that most other airlines can only dream about.

If other airlines benefited from the low handling costs at their major hubs that EK enjoys at DXB, which has some of the lowest handling costs of any major airport, plus the advantages of being government-owned and also having the same owner running both the airport, handling agent and serving as the regulatory authority, they'd be making big profits too. The fact that unions are illegal in the UAE and that both corporate and personal income taxes are non-existent are other factors that airlines not lucky enough to be based in the Gulf can only dream of.
 
something
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:48 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 23):
If other airlines benefited from the low handling costs at their major hubs that EK enjoys at DXB, which has some of the lowest handling costs of any major airport, plus the advantages of being government-owned and also having the same owner running both the airport, handling agent and serving as the regulatory authority, they'd be making big profits too. The fact that unions are illegal in the UAE and that both corporate and personal income taxes are non-existent are other factors that airlines not lucky enough to be based in the Gulf can only dream of.

+ the fact that instead of decent wages and benefit packages (ie dependends of flight attendants aren't covered by insurance etc.), they provide their employees with accomodation to lower the wages even further. Compared to the surroundings of New York, London or Tokyo land around DXB and constructions, labor, water and power are virtually free which means EK crew can live on a much smaller salary than crews based at JFK, LHR or NRT.

You also get about zilch when you leave the job, or you're fired - for engaging in premarital sex for example. But it's everybody's own decision if that's the kind of company they want to support financially.
..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
 
ytz
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:37 am

The reason I don't fly EK is quite frankly because they suck in Economy. True cattle class. I don't know how it is on the A380 but that's my impression of them on the 777s.
 
cloudyapple
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:01 am

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 4):
I still think fairly soon--possibly maybe as early as this summer season!--SQ will switch to the A380-800 on the SQ 001/002 route between SIN and SFO via HKG.

It's a B77W in the schedules.

Quoting cityairline (Reply 1):
But what I do want to know is if this is ONLY a move of prestige and/or to be superior to its neighbour Gulf carriers? Or are the loads and the need for more capacity actually that great?
Quoting something (Reply 6):
They wouldn't throw these A380s at the market if they couldn't fill them, somehow, but I'm not so sure about..

Every one of the Emirates flights I have been on ex LHR, and I have been on a lot, was full to the brim.

Quoting PezySPU (Reply 11):
That's just crazy, I can't imagine anything but serious overcapacity. There has to be a catch.

There's a reason why the new Dubai airport is called Dubai World Central.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 15):
With the lack of the 3rd runway

...for the moment.

Quoting PezySPU (Reply 16):
Of course, but I just can't imagine that they won't face overcapacity sooner or later, for shorter or longer period of time.

If every Emirates arrival into DXB feeds 50 departing flights, you need only 8 passengers connecting to each of the 50 destinations to fill that arrival. Same for departures. And that's how they can afford to fly to the most obscure destinations on earth and make a profit.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 17):
There has got to be room at EK at the bottom end for the likes of the 789 as "route developer planes"

Nope. The smallest aircraft has been an A332 for a long time. With a much bigger hub operation next year with the new A380 concourse and growing every day, they can send an A359 to any new destination and have it completely filled from launch day.
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JU068
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:29 am

What configuration will they have on the newest flight? If I remember correctly someone mentioned here that they have various configurations for different routes.
 
mikey72
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:51 am

Quoting something (Reply 6):
LHR is a highly competitive playing ground and everybody is fighting for the customer's favor. Every airline needs to distinguish itself from the rest and if you can offer high frequency, great on board service, a prestigious aircraft and the lowest fares because everybody else has to put up with higher CASMs, then you will make the lives of the competition very hard indeed. I'm not sure it makes money in the short term, but it's a brilliant strategy to cement your position in the longrun.

I would just remind everyone that EK do and will only ever serve one destination non-stop from LHR.

They are also rapidly approaching maximum frequency at LHR, they cannot just go on and on adding frequency at the bogged down airport.

Who knows what routes will become viable as non-stops from airports like LHR with new generations of aircraft.

Also pretty soon the A380 is going to be yesterday's news as more and more airlines operate them and their appeal as a sales pitch diminishes.

Add on to that the fact that many airlines like BA (even now AA) are radically changing their cost structures to be able to compete effectively.
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flood
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:55 am

Quoting david_itl (Reply 9):
And that's not taking into account EK actually ordering more because they want more.

Indeed. Clark reiterated (again) his thirst for more A380s today:

"I am personally very keen to get more A380s. I hope that we will soon order some," Emirates CEO Tim Clark was quoted as saying by daily Sueddeutsche Zeitung.

Any purchases on top of the 90 superjumbos already ordered would depend on how much capacity could be created at Dubai airport, he was quoted as saying in the paper's Friday edition, which was made available online on Thursday.

"Almost all the flights with the A380 are full," Clark said, adding that he had never experienced an aircraft quite as popular.


http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/1...=RSS&feedName=tnBasicIndustries-SP
 
boysteve
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:56 am

Quoting YTZ (Reply 25):
The reason I don't fly EK is quite frankly because they suck in Economy. True cattle class. I don't know how it is on the A380 but that's my impression of them on the 777s

My last EK trip was on B77W & A380 and I have to say there is a noticeable difference. Obviously the A380 is 28 inches/71cm wider than the triple7 but the same 10 abreast configuration. However I still prefer the EK Y class at 10 abreast than the UA flight I took in the centre of the 2-5-2 layout!
 
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scbriml
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:52 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 17):
There has got to be room at EK at the bottom end for the likes of the 789 as "route developer planes"

I don't see EK operating the 787-8 or 787-9. A couple of years ago the were going to completely roll over their A332s with A333s. That would have given them a significant increase in capacity.

My personal opinion is that eventually, the A359 will be the smallest plane they operate. A fleet of A359/A35J, 77W/77X and A388/A389 will be quite something.
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lightsaber
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:51 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 31):
My personal opinion is that eventually, the A359 will be the smallest plane they operate. A fleet of A359/A35J, 77W/77X and A388/A389 will be quite something.

That is the most likely future path for EK. I'm certain they would have further simplified their fleet if the A340s had better resale.   

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 28):
They are also rapidly approaching maximum frequency at LHR, they cannot just go on and on adding frequency at the bogged down airport.

Slots are tradded all the time. At some point EK with add a 5th 'hubbing wave' due to saturation of 3 of the 4 existing hubbing waves. At some point EK, as they do with one of their hubbing waves, will add additional aircraft to other hubbing waves for the seats.

Most long haul has one or two 'prime times' and the remaining flights are for seats and not frequency. So if you imply that EK will max out the number of time slots people wish to fly... OK. That is nearly done. But as to number of flights... unlikely.

As LHR isn't adding runway capacity, the growth will be gauge. Since many routes will not fill a larger gauge, the growth will be to outlier hubs. I'm pointed out my opinion before that the mid-east hubs 'sprung up' due to lack of growth at the European (and Indian) hubs. DXB is the 'wayport' of the region where anyone may fly in and trade passengers with other airlines.

If anything, the 'outlying hubs' will be able to outbid for most of the slots at LHR that come up for bid.
EK's growth will slow down... I just see a few more years of growth... and then a transfer to DWC from DXB... and then...

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CFBFrame
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:08 pm

Quoting something (Reply 19):
wish more airlines had the aggression of EK. Soon every major European airport will see double or triple daily EK A380, and the same can be said about many destinations in Asia, Australia and North America. All the while major carriers like NH, JJ, CX seem over-challenged to operate one of these planes.


Nice point of view. Kind of think you have to compare cost positions for each airline to be able to emulate the EK model. You also have to remember that the European market will have a limit to growth and when it does major price wars will come in to play. So EK having 4 A380s today may be a very exciting option for customers, and in the future it may be an even more exciting option because EK will be pushing to keep current capacity levels. The other airlines may feel very comfortable selling to their nationals and a different customer base at prices more suiting their cost structures? It's how you choose to play the game, and whether governments choose to block access for EK and the large capacity moves. No government intervention and EK kills many a national airline without much of a fight. Let's keep watching to see how this all plays out!!!
 
cmf
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:38 pm

Quoting CFBFrame (Reply 33):
No government intervention and EK kills many a national airline without much of a fight.

National airlines have plenty of advantages over EK. For example, with few exemptions flying EK will require a transfer. Often it will require a much longer route. Most of the time EK flights will only be reasonable when flying long haul flights in one direction.

If the national airlines can't figure out how to use the advantages they have to compete then they do not deserve to exist.
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scbriml
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:46 am

Quoting cmf (Reply 34):
National airlines have plenty of advantages over EK. For example, with few exemptions flying EK will require a transfer.

As do most "national" airlines. How many international destinations do BA fly to directly from Aberdeen or Edinburgh or Newcastle?
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cmf
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:34 am

Quoting scbriml (Reply 35):
As do most "national" airlines. How many international destinations do BA fly to directly from Aberdeen or Edinburgh or Newcastle?

As many as they want.

Unlike EK, BA can fly to almost any destination from any of those places. If they are losing customers to EK then figure out how to make the offer the more appealing.
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scbriml
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:49 am

Quoting cmf (Reply 36):
As many as they want.

But they don't, that's my point.

If you want to fly from Newcastle to Mumbai you either take EK via BXB or BA via LHR.
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cmf
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:17 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 37):
Quoting cmf (Reply 36):
As many as they want.

But they don't, that's my point.

If you want to fly from Newcastle to Mumbai you either take EK via BXB or BA via LHR.

And with that we are back to square one.

But why should EK be put under "government intervention" for that? remember the original claim.

Quoting CFBFrame (Reply 33):
No government intervention and EK kills many a national airline without much of a fight.


And I very much doubt you will find anyone taking EK when traveling Newcastle to Sao Paulo, New York, Toronto, etc.
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mikey72
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:00 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 35):
As do most "national" airlines. How many international destinations do BA fly to directly from Aberdeen or Edinburgh or Newcastle?
Quoting cmf (Reply 36):
Unlike EK, BA can fly to almost any destination from any of those places. If they are losing customers to EK then figure out how to make the offer the more appealing.

Where is the line in the sand though ?

I'm quite sure that funnelling people through DXB to many destinations EK could fill a jet from say Southampton (SOU) to
DXB !! (If the runway were long enough)

Obviously there is no way BA could make SOU-DXB work but people argue night is day on here that they 'should' be able to make it work ?

It must be me.
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cmf
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:50 pm

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 39):
Where is the line in the sand though ?

Line in the sand for what? Customer preference is the market line in the sand. Regulatory bodies draw many other.

With EK you would only be able to fly to Dubai from Southampton. If your destination is Abu Dhabi, Sharjah or Ras al Khaimah do you prefer the ground transport to be in UK or in UAE? A UK based airline can of course fly direct to either, if they think it is in their interest.

It is that very model EK is using so effectively. Don't blame EK for being smart. BA is using a very similar model to north America.
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babybus
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:58 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 3):
Brilliant. Always good to see more of the Superjumbo...

Qantas is soon going all A380 at LHR and SQ will convert the 77W flight to an A380 soon as well...

With Malaysian launching their A380 to LHR next year and Korean Air most likely sending it to LHR too at some point there are going to be a lot of the birds around.

Wonder where that will leave BA? They'll probably end up in forming an alliance with Ryanair at the other end of the market.

Quoting theginge (Reply 14):
Remember a lot of these passengers will be transfering in Dubai to other services to Australia, Far East etc, so as these markets grow EK will need to grow the flights such as London that feed them.

Why chose to fly Emirates when you can have A380 comfort with Qantas? Why would someone chose EK over SQ?

It takes a lot of passengers to fill an A380. There appears to be a lot of winners with their A380s. Somebody is losing their passengers.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
mikey72
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:38 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 40):
With EK you would only be able to fly to Dubai from Southampton.

Well yeah and then on to who know's where.

BA could only take you as far as DXB. Surely that is the very essence of EK's strategy. Many of EK's flights from the UK would be unviable as would say many of BA's from the U.S without transfer traffic.

Quoting cmf (Reply 40):
Line in the sand for what?

At what point does an airport become unviable to a carrier. BA ex the U.S is very similar to EK ex the UK.

EK with all 5 services ex LHR with A380 will fly 2450 seats daily to DXB. (Not too distant future)

BA with all 8 services ex LHR with 744 will fly 2400 seats daily to JFK. (Next year)

(Even with all the competition on JFK - LHR they can operate that frequency because like EK they can transfer)
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planesarecool
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:07 pm

Are there any new A380 gates at LHR T3? By my reckoning, there will be five A380s on the ground at the same time. The A380 pier at T3 only has four stands.

QF 0635 2130
QF 0540 2230
SQ 1910 2205
EK 1840 2040
EK 2015 2215
 
cloudyapple
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:21 pm

Quoting planesarecool (Reply 43):
there will be five A380s on the ground at the same time. The A380 pier at T3 only has four stands.

And a few tugs. I don't see any issue unless UAE4 is delayed by more than 20min.
A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
 
skipness1E
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:25 pm

Daystoppers are remote parked on the 590s. Indeed the SQ lunchtime dep is also parked off stand for a few hours. There is no issue.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:03 pm

Quoting Babybus (Reply 41):
Why chose to fly Emirates when you can have A380 comfort with Qantas? Why would someone chose EK over SQ?

Low fares are a higher priority for most passengers, especially those in Y class, and EK's lower cost structure (for example, no taxes, no unions, very low handling costs at their major hub compared to other major hubs) permits them to offer lower fares than many other carriers and still make a profit.
 
cmf
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:19 am

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 42):
BA could only take you as far as DXB.

No, BA can fly direct to any place from Southampton, providing they have equipment of course. With EK you need to fly via Dubai. That is the advantage BA has.

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 42):
At what point does an airport become unviable to a carrier. BA ex the U.S is very similar to EK ex the UK.

I did state BA is using a similar model to north America.
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mikey72
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:08 am

Quoting cmf (Reply 47):
No, BA can fly direct to any place from Southampton, providing they have equipment of course. With EK you need to fly via Dubai. That is the advantage BA has.

You're kind of contradicting yourself there. There would be a tiny amount of long-haul O&D from Southampton.

However EK would open up the entire Eastern hemisphere from Southampton through their hub in Dubai.

Do you remember the 80's BA commercial....''every year we bring more people across the Atlantic than the entire population of Manhattan''

That kind of success was built on the same principles that EK are now using from Europe going East.

The only difference is that there is nobody to compete with them.....hence the huge aircraft orders.

It's all going to be kept firmly 'in the family' as they say. EK certainly don't need to be a member of any alliance and definitely don't need to merge with anyone.

Check mate.

[Edited 2011-12-18 01:05:44]
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cmf
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RE: Emirates 4 Daily A380'S To LHR

Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:59 am

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 48):
You're kind of contradicting yourself there.

Where? How?

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 48):
However EK would open up the entire Eastern hemisphere from Southampton through their hub in Dubai.

Would they? What about the area between Southampton and Dubai, there is only so much backtracking people are prepared to do.

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 48):
Do you remember the 80's BA commercial....''every year we bring more people across the Atlantic than the entire population of Manhattan''

That kind of success was built on the same principles that EK are now using from Europe going East.

The only difference is that there is nobody to compete with them.....hence the huge aircraft orders.

No I do not remember ever seeing that commercial. Not sure what point you're trying to make since I have already stated BA is using a similar strategy to north America.

But the real question is how all what you're stating ties in with the question at hand. From post 33 "No government intervention and EK kills many a national airline without much of a fight."

I've shown that local airlines have advantages they can exploit to remain competitive. I fail to see your points on the subject. All I've seen you state is that EK is smartly using their advantages. Which isn't the story.
Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.