jetfuel
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Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:58 am

Another victim of the times. Another victim of Emirates growth? Sad as MH has one of the best Y class products, just they never promote it

Malaysia Airlines said it will cut eight routes to Europe, Africa, the Middle East and other destinations starting next month
Routes servicing Rome, Johannesburg, Cape Town, Buenos Aires, Karachi, Dubai, the Saudi Arabian city of Dammam, and the city of Surabaya in Indonesia, will be dropped

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-...-20111216-1oxn8.html#ixzz1ggN6I1Ho
Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:03 am

To be fair, I think that KUL-JNB-CPT-EZE has been in trouble for a long time, an expensive route to operate and with only limited frequency it has been rumoured to be for the chop many times before. Rome probably worked when it looked as though they might be heading for Skyteam, but now that they are on their way to OW it doesn't make too much sense either. I can't speak for the other routes, although I guess going up against EK to Dubai is pretty tough. I suspect that this really just reflects a long overdue cull of routes which were operated because they looked nice on the route map rather than because they made money.
 
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9MMPQ
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:58 am

Quoting jetfuel (Thread starter):
Another victim of the times. Another victim of Emirates growth?

MH has a lot more problems. Compared to what they need to sort out in their own house EK is hardly the immediate concern.

Perhaps these most recent threads might be interesting for you ?


MH Will Launch New Regional Carrier In 2012 (by Gonzalo Dec 7 2011 in Civil Aviation)

MH Axes DXB, JNB, CPT, EZE In Feb 2012 But Add AUH (by 9MMAR Nov 9 2011 in Civil Aviation)
I believe in coincidences. Coincidences happen every day. But I don't trust coincidences.
 
chrisrad
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:40 am

Quoting jetfuel (Thread starter):
Another victim of the times. Another victim of Emirates growth? Sad as MH has one of the best Y class products, just they never promote it

Sadly MH is also a victim of itself, constantly behind in their product. Yes they have one of the best legroom in Y class, but come on, it's still exactly the same cabin I flew in 1999 for the first time!!
Their business cabin is miles behind the competition, outdated seats already when they started installing then in 2005.

They had the opportunity to improve with their new A330's they are receiving the moment, so they again put in an outdated product, and before somebody says it's only for regional routes, I would hardly call MEL-KUL regional.

They should have a long hard look at what Oman Air has done, if they would update to that level of product combined with their famous cabin service they would be hard to beat!
Welcome aboard Malaysia Airlines! Winner of Best Cabin Staff 2001,2002,2003,2004,2007,2009,2012
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:17 pm

There is nothing wrong with cutting routes if they are not sufficiently delivering. Indeed, MH's CEO said*:

“The withdrawal was based on our own independent internal profitability and yield analysis. This accounts for almost 12 per cent of our passenger capacity and we estimate that the ongoing route rationalisation will improve loads, increase yields and have a profit impact of RM220-302 million [$69-$95 million] for 2012.”


* http://www.routesonline.com/news/36/...-routes-in-business-restructuring/

[Edited 2011-12-16 05:19:47]
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
infinit
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:43 pm

Sad. I wish the best for MH, they're a fantastic airline. I think it also has a lot to do with poor management. Otherwise maybe we'd have MH as SQ's new subsidiary  okay, that won't happen lol.. although MH and SQ started off as one airline. I think the more likely scenario is a merger between AirAsia and MH. Some of my Malaysian friends say they see Airasia as more of their national airline than MH
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:45 pm

Quoting infinit (Reply 5):
Sad.

Why is it sad? If they were loss-making routes that didn't add enough - which appears so - then their removal should strengthen the business, as confirmed in the quote I previously provided.

[Edited 2011-12-16 07:52:00]
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
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RWA380
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:17 pm

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 1):
To be fair, I think that KUL-JNB-CPT-EZE has been in trouble for a long time, an expensive route to operate and with only limited frequency it has been rumoured to be for the chop many times before.

Booked a pieced together RTW J class for some passengers, the flight they chose to get from S. Africa to S. America was the MH 744, It was way less expensive than other options available to them, it had plenty of open seats less than a month in advance, and they liked it, but not loved it. It was real late, they missed their connection onwards, the service was decent they said, but several catering items, including several favorite liquors were unavailable.

If this is indicitive of their operation on the route, I'm not surprised it's going away. Too bad it was a cool route. Really do that many airlines offer long haul 1 or multi stop flights much any more? I often wondered why SQ didn't do something like this to get to S. America. Maybe they could find a way to make it work profitably with a 777.
Next Flights: PDX-HNL-OGG-LIH-PDX On AS, WP & HA
 
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huaiwei
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:57 pm

Quoting jetfuel (Thread starter):
Another victim of Emirates growth?

EK appears to be the favourite scapegoat for every failure out there.

On closer inspection, the majority of routes are not directly related to the kangaroo route. KL-Surubaya, and more shockingly, even Singapore-Penang-Langkawi are being dropped, and while that can easily be blamed on LCCs, I kinda wonder if its part of an impending plan to move all these routes to the new regional airline or to surrender them completely to AirAsia.
It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
 
ORDJOE
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:45 pm

Quoting jetfuel (Thread starter):
Routes servicing Rome, Johannesburg, Cape Town, Buenos Aires, Karachi, Dubai, the Saudi Arabian city of Dammam, and the city of Surabaya in Indonesia, will be dropped

EZE, how much of it is paying F, J and full fare Y vs leisure, does Malaysia have many ties with Argentina? Karachi and Surabaya, both Indonesia and Pakistan are know to be relatively low yielding VFR traffic. CPT and JNB, how much business travelers vs leisure traffic. Isn't CPT especially known for leisure travel. Dammam, how much business travel is there vs low yield VFR pax.

In my mind it is a good thing they are slashing routes that do not make money, no sense in sending flights on missions that only for prestige. It is my understanding MH is owned by the government, like many government run entities they probably are saddled by legacy bureaucracy and other government inefficiencies. Hopefully they can clean up their act.
 
behramjee
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:58 pm

Istanbul too shall be suspended by S12 by MH.
 
ferminbrif
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:10 pm

Quoting jetfuel (Thread starter):
MH has one of the best Y class products, just they never promote it

I totally agree. I flew FCO-KUL (round trip) in 2008 and legroom in Y class was good enoug. At least for a 6Ft 1" pax like me.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:09 pm

Quoting ordjoe (Reply 9):
Quoting jetfuel (Thread starter):
Routes servicing Rome, Johannesburg, Cape Town, Buenos Aires, Karachi, Dubai, the Saudi Arabian city of Dammam, and the city of Surabaya in Indonesia, will be dropped

EZE, how much of it is paying F, J and full fare Y vs leisure, does Malaysia have many ties with Argentina?

When the EZE route began, the story was that it was so the Malaysian prime minister at the time could conveniently commute to/from his large ranch in Argentina.
 
zkeoj
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:11 pm

Quoting jetfuel (Thread starter):
MH has one of the best Y class products

hmmm, based on that reputation I booked on MH AKL-KUL-DPS instead of the very much cheaper JQ or DJ flights, and I was immensely underwhelmed. The 777s were old, and I mean REALLY old. Uncomfortable seats and lousy PTV/IFE. The A330 service on the KUL-DPS was better by miles. Service was good, but in my opinion not up to scratch with the likes of SQ, NZ, TG etc... I am not surprised they are hurting, given that Air AisaX is offering significantly cheaper fares...

Just my opinion, of course
Cheers
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cloud4000
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:54 pm

I'm surprised Karachi being dropped given the number of Pakistani who work in Malaysia. Is EK really stealing passengers on this route even though Dubai is further west then Karachi?
Boston, USA
 
dellatorre
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:06 am

MH is bound to be another second-third grade asian airline like Garuda and Philippine Airlines. They are being swallowed by competition and the decision not to join an alliance must be taking it's toll.
 
trex8
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:09 am

Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 15):
MH is bound to be another second-third grade asian airline like Garuda and Philippine Airlines. They are being swallowed by competition and the decision not to join an alliance must be taking it's toll.

Were they ever in the same league as SQ/CX/JL?
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:22 am

Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 15):
MH is bound to be another second-third grade asian airline like Garuda and Philippine Airlines. They are being swallowed by competition and the decision not to join an alliance must be taking it's toll.

In my experience of flying them on several longhaul sectors I have always found their service to be very good, although I admit their J product is a bit dated, but then again, they are far from the only carrier out there still trying to pass off sloping beds as flat. I do agree that their delay with alliance membership has probably cost them dearly, but I think their relationship with KL was so good that they spent a long time hoping to be invited to Skyteam before finally giving up and going to OW instead.
 
ben175
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:03 am

I can't believe BKI-PER hasn't been dropped. Apparently the loads on this route are quite bad.
 
United Airline
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:08 am

How come MH is all about cut this cut that? Geeeeeeeez
 
jetfuel
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:56 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 19):
How come MH is all about cut this cut that? Geeeeeeeez

I will try not and offend anybody with my attempt to answer. Malaysia is an odd country. Some people think there's a degree of corruption. I wont comment. What I do notice there is a distinct lack of individuality and innovation.

MH more or less formed with a separation from with SQ. SQ has gone on to be a leading world airline because Singapore is far better at creating new ideas/innovations and maintaining standards. MH is a great airline but it has not been making money and now the reality has hit.

If you look at the likes of KUL. A great airport BUT very much a copy of what other airports have created. It was like Malaysia had to copy to keep up. The train to the airport is very much a copy of the HKG concept. Problem is it is down market, poorly maintained and almost second world compared to HKG. The seats on the train (2 weeks ago) were very worm and some almost threadbare. KUL as an airport feels deserted most of the day.

KUL, KL Tower, Petronas Towers etc all created to try and keep up. Almost at any cost and without any real financial plan. I fear the A380 is just the same

SQ is run as a major tourist driver for Singapore. MH had every opportunity but never really promoted its wonderful Y class (at its peak better than SQ), it never expanded its network in a smart way, KUL never really created the major hub that was dreamt about.

When you look at hard at everything Malaysia you see copying, poor planning and then a lack of maintenance and up keep of standards. On the other hand everything in Singapore is meticulously planned, often original and then kept clean and maintained to an impeccable standard. Walk around Singapore and then Kuala Lumpur for a few days and you will understand how this has been transposed into the national airlines of each country.

Could MH be turned around? Yes, but it would need a lot of investment, getting rid of a lot of dead weight in management and a whole new marketing face. MH is the airlien that could have been but never quite made it
Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
 
airpearl
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:58 am

Quoting trex8 (Reply 16):
Were they ever in the same league as SQ/CX/JL?

No. There's only a perception by some on A.net that it is, primarily because of the service provided by its cabin crew. The company is in a mess; the airline is in disarray. There was a time about 15 years ago when MH could match some of the best airlines in both hard and soft product but those days are long gone and the airline has lagged behind ever since. The managerial decisions are seldom made on purely commercial grounds - and I doubt they are, even now - and the airline's staff are left pretty much in the dark as to future direction. As nice as these consultant-generated turnaround reports look, corruption is still rife in MH - in its home market of Malaysia for instance, a F class ticket on its flagship service to London can still be had for a fraction of the price if you are willing to share some of your savings with the right MH staff members. This 'system' is well-known among the Datuks and Tan Sris who regularly fly the premium classes on MH. This is what's visible at the customer contact point - imagine how rotten the core must be. It's really no surprise to me that MH is on the verge of collapse.


.
 
airpearl
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:03 am

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 20):
When you look at hard at everything Malaysia you see copying, poor planning and then a lack of maintenance and up keep of standards. On the other hand everything in Singapore is meticulously planned, often original and then kept clean and maintained to an impeccable standard. Walk around Singapore and then Kuala Lumpur for a few days and you will understand how this has been transposed into the national airlines of each country.

   Well said.
 
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MillwallSean
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:23 am

First the South Africa, South America route has never made money. its a political route and I am surprised to see it go. Someone must be less influential or maybe the sons dont care much for the route.

Surabaya is a surprise. Sure its heaps of lowcost competition but this is a core route in SE Asia. Not sure how it doesnt work, to high costs and to much lowcost compeittion I would assume.

From BKI I hope the close every route they opened. They loose a bucketload of cash here and whoever that came up with the idea of hubbing in BKI must have been under the sun for many, many hours.

The gulf is hard. they should be able to handle Dubai there is enough people flying but I guess the gulf carriers take to much of the traffic. Malaysia differs from Indo and Phils in that they dont send maids and workers to the gulf. That might make the route less viable.

Rome? One basketcase of an economy connected with Malaysia. That route is for tourism only and that never makes enough money. Its in Northern Italy the money is and even if thats so Malaysias business links with Italy is rather low. In general Italy isnt big investors in production in Asia or a strong IT, petroleum, tin, palmoil etc nation etc that appeals to Malaysia.

Quoting ordjoe (Reply 9):
EZE, how much of it is paying F, J and full fare Y vs leisure, does Malaysia have many ties with Argentina? Karachi and Surabaya, both Indonesia and Pakistan are know to be relatively low yielding VFR traffic. CPT and JNB, how much business travelers vs leisure traffic. Isn't CPT especially known for leisure travel. Dammam, how much business travel is there vs low yield VFR pax.

The business travel between the gulf and Malaysia has been growing at a pretty rapid rate lately. The government want to be a hub for islamic finance. They of course forgot that the business is mainly run by the Malaysian chinese and they dont have anythying at all in common by places like Saudi Arabia...
They do make heaps of business with China three hours north and India three hours west but they arent as politically attractive to some politicians...

The major issue is that MH has eight times as many employees as EK, and EY etc per plane so even if MH captured a large chuink of the traffic its doubtful many of the routes would make money.

Quoting cloud4000 (Reply 14):
I'm surprised Karachi being dropped given the number of Pakistani who work in Malaysia. Is EK really stealing passengers on this route even though Dubai is further west then Karachi?

The Malaysian government isnt as keen on pakistan anymore. They pulled their students out due to the islamisation among the people that came back from Pakistan. Half their domestic terrorists were surprise surprise educated in Pakistan. Instead they started sending the people to Egypt how the thoughts went there is anyones guess hehe...
Lately they have also tried to reduce immigration from countries such as Pakistan and Iraq and instead focus on Bangladesh and Indoensia for migrant workers.

Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 15):
MH is bound to be another second-third grade asian airline like Garuda and Philippine Airlines. They are being swallowed by competition and the decision not to join an alliance must be taking it's toll.

MH with its domestic market will stay a strong niche player in Eastern Asia, Oceania and flying some key routes to Europe. We should keep in mind that the footprint of such an airline is bigger than any South American carrier. Malaysias economy is such that they will always command a premium with goverment related business. And in Malaysia the government is big, wealthy and flies Businessclass.

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 20):
When you look at hard at everything Malaysia you see copying, poor planning and then a lack of maintenance and up keep of standards. On the other hand everything in Singapore is meticulously planned, often original and then kept clean and maintained to an impeccable standard. Walk around Singapore and then Kuala Lumpur for a few days and you will understand how this has been transposed into the national airlines of each country.

I dont know I have lived and worked several years in maloaysia and I say the opposite is true. malaysia is a creative haven. Most foreign non financial companies moves their marketing and PR departements from Singapore to Malaysia for a reason. Creativity in places like penang is better than average.
Singapore is a great place and has faied heaps better than malaysia. But the main problem with Singapore is the lack of creativity, lack of people used to think on the spot. being part of one of the more imnportant club surveys in Singapore I can safely say that this is an issue most European engineering companies struggle with.

For me Malaysia might be adhoc in its planning. But it has charm and personality. people go about making their own business. opening stalls on every corner and where you elast expect to find business. Small and medium enterprises are booming and everyone seem to want to have their own company.
unfortunately in 30 years time corruption has become half endemic, all politics are corrupted. Customs and police officials earn more than expats. Its sad and in West Malaysia a lot of people thus dont fly MH. They see it as the arm of the government and thus make an active choice to avoid it.

for me I go to Singapore when I need some Europe. When I need some order and simplicity. When I want an Asian experience I stay away from Singapore and choose Malaysia.
No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:41 am

MH's best chance now it to strengthen its existing network via its OW membership. It will in particular be able to supply QF an outlet into many markets in Asia and beyond that it can not serve itself.

With MH and D7/AK in co-operation these days, they will be in a better position to put capacity where it is needed most, with the right product placed accordingly.
 
infinit
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:01 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 6):
Why is it sad? If they were loss-making routes that didn't add enough - which appears so - then their removal should strengthen the business, as confirmed in the quote I previously provided.

Well getting rid of unprofitable routes might be necessary but it doesn't bode well if an airline is constantly slashing routes- its a tactic, not a strategy. Things constantly look worse for MH- they're constantly operating in the red for starters. Mismanagement (or too much management for that matter) aside, I think part of the problem is they're not tapping enough on where the action really is- the China, Indian and Middle Eastern routes. All because of a lack of political will.

I think nothing's going to change if there's no change in the management. Lots of deadweight to get rid off there, I know a number of people in there. Beyond that I think they need a strong strategy forward, they need a competitive advantage. I think a merger with QF might just be it.

The expansion of gulf carriers can't be blamed as well. What's their strategy in relation to EK? You can't blame your loss of market share because your competitors seem to have a good strategy when you dont seem to have a viable one

Quoting trex8 (Reply 16):
Were they ever in the same league as SQ/CX/JL?

In 1980 or 1990 from what I understand from the people who flew them back then, MH might have been as good if not better than SQ.

I think you gotta look at the history. SQ and MH started off in 1947 as Malayan Airways, was renamed Malaysia-Singapore Airlines (MAS), a bi-national airline when Singapore left the Malaysian federation in 1965. MAS was headquartered in Singapore though, at the current SIA building at Raffles. In 1972 they decided to split because the Sg side understandably wanted to focus more on international routes while the Malaysian side wanted to focus first on domestic routes and sequentially on regional and long-haul in the future. That was the start of the present day of SQ and MH. SQ was at that time an unusual airline- no domestic routes. LKY admitted he didn't think it would work, his idea was for SIN to be a hub which would conflict with SQ's strategy but SQ was the brain child of J Y Pillai. They wanted to show they had the best and create a name for themselves which they did with their soft product. They went on an aggressive expansion and had strong, consistent marketing. They became a big brand by the late 80s. Things were a lot quieter on the MH side though. MH never had the marketing prowess that SQ has bad in the last 40years and I blame partly on management and because MH didnt need to, they have their domestic routes (although there's AirAsia now...). I think years of poor management have taken its toll on MH. There's a lot more cost cutting now, staff morale has gone down too

And on a related note I tend to think of EK's start in the late 80s as emulating the successful SQ 'nation-state hub airline' model although Dubai isn't a nation-state per se although I think EK has out-done SQ in terms of network expansion.
 
planesjoey
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:45 pm

Looks like MH is definitely trying to make a big turnaround here. The new livery, corporate identity and brand new aircraft all point to an attempt, to be on par with Asia's leading airlines like SQ,CX et al. Honestly, although some people will disagree with me on this, I don't see MH as much of a competitor. Perhaps we may see Tony Fernandes and gang picking up on these routes soon?
- Planesjoey
Aircraft flown: 313,319,320,321,332,333,343,345,380,717,732,733,734,737,73H,743,744,762,763,772,773,77W,AB4,
 
changyou
Posts: 199
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:49 pm

Quoting planesjoey (Reply 26):
I don't see MH as much of a competitor

I agree with you on this. TG whos more successful than MH was never a huge competitor to SQ. And now MH's negative reputation for huge losses, down sizing, old products will not help them much. MH is going back to basic...Building up a strong regional carrier to feed on its long hauls. But isn't it too late when MI already a strong premium regional feeding to SQ? And also don't forget TG is also another stronger player to MH in South East Asia. Besides SQ and TG, MH got to fend off GA who's also in a revamp phase whom AJ(MH CEO) mentioned its also an airline to watch. And JT just ordered huge amount of 737s for their domestic and regional routes and launching Space Jet(JT Long Haul) in near future.

So where does MH stand in OneWorld alliance? If QF is to launch RedQ then what added values does MH offer to OneWorld? BA/QF operation in SIN will not move to KUL for MH's benefit. SIN is too much of a premium market for BA/QF to forgo. Rumoured QF to merge with MH...This was discussed 2-3yrs ago but neither would want to be the younger partner to the other and that was why AK/D7(Malaysian carrier) had to provide the rescue package to fix MH up. National Pride.

Anyway with DJ forging strong alliance with SQ on Australia and Asia routes means QF/MH may need to iron things out carefully and quickly. 2012 onwards will be a very interesting year for MH. If they can't get this right this time then please...stop wasting resources and let AK/D7 be the only "Malaysia Airlines".
 
babybus
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:50 pm

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 20):
I fear the A380 is just the same

I had never considered MH as a A380 operator. It's good they bought it and its low operating costs might help make some routes more profitable and signal a new direction for the future of the airline.

Malaysia as a country needs to get on the promotion trail. I'd consider myself well travelled and yet have no desire to see Malaysia at all. It just doesn't seem to be an attractive or interesting place. A good marketing team could sort that out.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
changyou
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:10 pm

Quoting Babybus (Reply 28):
Malaysia as a country needs to get on the promotion trail. I'd consider myself well travelled and yet have no desire to see Malaysia at all. It just doesn't seem to be an attractive or interesting place. A good marketing team could sort that out.

The Malaysia Truly Asia campaign was and still is very successful. Malaysia saw higher inbound of tourists in the past years and the numbers are still climbing. But all these comes with other airlines adding flights into the capital of Malaysia KUL which is home of MH. This shows MH faces more competition as the country gets more popular. And MH is the victim of Malaysia success. Sad but they really need to speed up their process as I've mentioned...Garuda and Lion Air are going to expand aggresively.
 
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MillwallSean
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:57 pm

Quoting Babybus (Reply 28):

Malaysia as a country needs to get on the promotion trail. I'd consider myself well travelled and yet have no desire to see Malaysia at all. It just doesn't seem to be an attractive or interesting place. A good marketing team could sort that out.

Malaysia pulls im a fair bit of tourism and has had one of the most successfull campaigns for sourcing FDI seen in Asia. Half the computers of this world sees production in Malaysia and there is hardly a tech firm that doesnt have a big assembly factory within the country.
Malaysia boleh when it wants too. Problem is the middle level people thats gotten used to being bribed to do nothing. The wonderful ali baba system.
Im not sure who to blame the Chinese for starting to bribe their way to every contract (due to nessescety since only ethnic malays is allowed government contracts (hello apartheid), but the malays rarely run businesses so instead they have a small company that takes the contract does nothing and sells it on to the chinese businessman who then gets the work done.) or the Malays for accepoting the bribes. But these two groups together is making malaysia a very painful country for business and its getting worse for every year. Its a viscious circle that needs to be broken. people need to have some pride and not accept-give bribes for everything in life.

The problem is not in regards to demand or in regards to tourism. The country sees more than enough of both and as said its Visit Malaysia campaigns is one of the most successfull tourism campaignbs ever done. the creativity of Malaysia when it comes to such campaigns is great. They have so much talet.

The problem is the corruption. Its eating MH from within. The company is so riddled with people sent abroad for uni studies on government money thats returned without having understood whats its like to work like a normal employee. these people always have an uncle or cousin that seem to be able to get them a cool title at MH. MH has no need for them nor do they want them but they cant refuse them. So they are stuck with another middle level manager with a fancy title and an articicial line of work. After a while in such a position they realise they dont even have to show up some then go on doing nothing while others find ways to increse their own salary through some unethical practice.

Try to bid for a contract with MH and see whats expected.
Its not a funny picture, every little manager they have expects his/her own kickback. Getting the contract is one thing, the trouble comes after when every datuks son and daughter expectes money for things that should be done by default according to company policies and contracts.
The fact that as airpearl says you can buy your own "discounted" business tickets from customer service dept with some nice little bribes is was kills this airline. The only ones that pay for the higher classes are the government and although they fly a fair bit its not near enough.

Garuda and Lionair poses very little threat to MH. Very little Malaysian wont start using Garuda unless it severly undercuts MH on price and bargainhunters MH can live without.
Lion Air is a non factor. They cant compete with Air Asia on the Malaysian market as it is. Being on the EU blacklist also ensures that they get very little corporate traffic since compmny insurance etc isnt valid if employees use them.
All Lion can do is pick up the Indonesians that otherwise would have chosen Air Asia, but even this they seem to struggle with.
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jetfuel
Topic Author
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:16 am

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 30):
The problem is the corruption. Its eating MH from within

This is why QF must stay well clear

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 30):
The only ones that pay for the higher classes are the government and although they fly a fair bit its not near enough.

I dont think anybody from within the Govt pays MH the proper fare for business class
Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
 
koruman
Posts: 2179
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:23 am

One of the most frightening things in this story of patronage, corruption and nepotism is that Qantas seems to be seriously considering mortgaging its house to get into bed with these people.

Routes to Argentina for the ex-PM to get to his ranch. Bribing customer service to get Business Class fares for less than the face value of an economy ticket. Where does this all end?
 
olba
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:50 am

do they still serve BEY?
 
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BasilFawlty
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:11 am

Quoting OLBA (Reply 33):
do they still serve BEY?

No, BEY was discontinued somewhere in late 2010.
'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
 
777MAS
Posts: 191
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:10 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 19):
How come MH is all about cut this cut that? Geeeeeeeez
Quoting jetfuel (Reply 20):
Could MH be turned around? Yes, but it would need a lot of investment, getting rid of a lot of dead weight in management and a whole new marketing face. MH is the airlien that could have been but never quite made it
Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 30):
The problem is the corruption. Its eating MH from within. The company is so riddled with people sent abroad for uni studies on government money thats returned without having understood whats its like to work like a normal employee. these people always have an uncle or cousin that seem to be able to get them a cool title at MH. MH has no need for them nor do they want them but they cant refuse them. So they are stuck with another middle level manager with a fancy title and an articicial line of work. After a while in such a position they realise they dont even have to show up some then go on doing nothing while others find ways to increse their own salary through some unethical practice.
Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 23):
The major issue is that MH has eight times as many employees as EK, and EY etc per plane so even if MH captured a large chuink of the traffic its doubtful many of the routes would make money.

Well, as long as they don't cut the "dead weight in management" and reduce head count, it will be routes that they will be cutting, until there's nothing left to cut. And then the house of cards will come tumbling down.

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 20):
It was like Malaysia had to copy to keep up. The train to the airport is very much a copy of the HKG concept. Problem is it is down market, poorly maintained and almost second world compared to HKG. The seats on the train (2 weeks ago) were very worm and some almost threadbare. KUL as an airport feels deserted most of the day.

KUL, KL Tower, Petronas Towers etc all created to try and keep up. Almost at any cost and without any real financial plan. I fear the A380 is just the same

This was all done by the powers-that-be to demonstrate to simple-minded folks in the rural areas (and also anyone gullible enough to fall for it) that Malaysia is fast becoming a developed country, and of course, Malaysia Boleh. So, the A380 would be seen as a prestige project. And this for an airline that had downgauged its KUL-MEL flights from 2x daily 747 to 2x daily A333.

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 23):
And in Malaysia the government is big, wealthy and flies Businessclass.

Yup the Malaysian govt is BIG (close to 5% of the population of Malaysia are on its payroll - MAS is a microcosm of this in that context), WEALTHY (because its managed to BORROW MYR407 billion over the years), and flies Business Class (because to fly Economy would hurt certain people's egos).
 
PezySPU
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:46 am

Quoting koruman (Reply 32):
Where does this all end?

Bankruptcy. Or some serious reorganization, but that's not what airlines like MH ever do.

Quoting 777MAS (Reply 35):
Well, as long as they don't cut the "dead weight in management" and reduce head count, it will be routes that they will be cutting,

And frontline staff, even though workforce is pretty cheap in Malaysia anyway, so that's pointless. Management is where serious cuts are needed.
 
SCL767
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:03 am

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 23):
MH with its domestic market will stay a strong niche player in Eastern Asia, Oceania and flying some key routes to Europe. We should keep in mind that the footprint of such an airline is bigger than any South American carrier.

MH has a larger footprint than any South American carrier? Care to elaborate? Sad to see them leaving South America in February, not surprising though.
 
lexer
Posts: 135
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:21 pm

RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:13 pm

Interesting thread.

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 1):
I suspect that this really just reflects a long overdue cull of routes which were operated because they looked nice on the route map rather than because they made money.
Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 30):
The problem is the corruption.
Quoting ordjoe (Reply 9):
no sense in sending flights on missions that only for prestige.
Quoting 777MAS (Reply 35):
So, the A380 would be seen as a prestige project.

Corruption, prestige.. These are the hallmarks of a leadership that is not fully accountable.
 
777MAS
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:11 am

Quoting PezySPU (Reply 36):
Bankruptcy. Or some serious reorganization, but that's not what airlines like MH ever do.

In history famous names like Pan Am and Swissair did not survive and were eventually liquidated. Other names that spring to mind are Ansett.

But in Malaysia, even if they really ran out of money, there will probably be a (taxpayer-funded) bailout. It will of course be window-dressed as the government (which owns MH) subscribing to an issue of stock in the company. As lexer has correctly pointed out:

Quoting lexer (Reply 38):
Corruption, prestige.. These are the hallmarks of a leadership that is not fully accountable.

In Malaysia we have for the last 30-50 years had a government that is not accountable to the public at all [note I deliberately left out the word "fully"]. And so this type of culture would unsurprisingly rub off on MH, and many other companies that the government owns.

Like I mentioned in another post, were MH to really go through bankruptcy and/or liquidation, there will be too much dirty linen that will emerge, that will inevitably get washed in public! So, not surprisingly, as pointed out by PezySPU:

Quoting PezySPU (Reply 36):
Bankruptcy. Or some serious reorganization, but that's not what airlines like MH ever do.
 
QF175
Posts: 563
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:51 am

Quoting Ben175 (Reply 18):

Hi Ben. The Perth - Kota Kinabalu service is expected to cease with effect late January 2012. Last service is currently showing 30JAN12.

Cheers
 
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9MMPQ
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:38 am

We know international flights from Kota Kinabalu are being drawn down but this seems to be done much more silently then the routes from Kualu Lumpur which were given much more attention when announced.

It was beyond me why this route was ever launched & i strongly think it was a nice play thing for other parties in Sabah while MH had little to gain. Advertising in Perth was dismal when you compared it to the host of other carriers you'd find all over the city.
I believe in coincidences. Coincidences happen every day. But I don't trust coincidences.
 
9MMAR
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:04 am

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 31):
I dont think anybody from within the Govt pays MH the proper fare for business class

The government staff when traveled on government warrant will travel on the highest class fare (full Y for Economy and full J for Business) based on their entitlements.

Quoting OLBA (Reply 33):
do they still serve BEY?

BEY was withdrawn from the network on 31 July 2011.
 
TreeHillRavens
Posts: 284
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:27 am

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 20):

Very well said!

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 23):
From BKI I hope the close every route they opened. They loose a bucketload of cash here and whoever that came up with the idea of hubbing in BKI must have been under the sun for many, many hours.

Some international routes have been there since the 90s (Tokyo, Seoul) while some have been existed even longer (HKG since the 70s if i'm not mistaken).

The idea of making BKI a hub may not be such a good idea but not all international flights ex-BKI are losing money like you made it look like. Traffics between BKI/HKG are far bigger than BKI/BWN. O&D traffic between BKI/ICN too is very big and OZ can back this fact up. O&D traffic between BKI/TPE too, is very high.

Why would they get rid of BKI/HND (TYO) still puzzles me. I flew MH80/MH81 once a month between 2002 - 2009 (when it was operated as KUL-BKI-NRT-BKI-KUL twice weekly) and almost all passengers from NRT disembarked at BKI, leaving the last leg of the flight virtually empty all the time.

Quoting infinit (Reply 25):
I think nothing's going to change if there's no change in the management. Lots of deadweight to get rid off there,

Agreed.

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 31):
I dont think anybody from within the Govt pays MH the proper fare for business class

They do actually. And it is not just some regular business class air fare but the most expensive business class fare bucket.

Quoting 777MAS (Reply 39):
But in Malaysia, even if they really ran out of money, there will probably be a (taxpayer-funded) bailout. It will of course be window-dressed as the government (which owns MH) subscribing to an issue of stock in the company. As lexer has correctly pointed out:

Agreed. Rest assured that it won't end up like Swissair  
Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 42):
The government staff when traveled on government warrant will travel on the highest class fare (full Y for Economy and full J for Business) based on their entitlements.

  
 
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MillwallSean
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:37 pm

Quoting TreeHillRavens (Reply 43):
The idea of making BKI a hub may not be such a good idea but not all international flights ex-BKI are losing money like you made it look like. Traffics between BKI/HKG are far bigger than BKI/BWN. O&D traffic between BKI/ICN too is very big and OZ can back this fact up. O&D traffic between BKI/TPE too, is very high.

Other airlines makes money from BKI, I fully agree. Air Asia makes money in BKI too. Shockingly enough even my belowed Royal Brunei has made some money on BKI. (and thats an airline thats never ever been proftable)

But non of these airlines are MH.
Just because there is a market doesnt mean every carrier can serve it profitably.
MH with its much larger overheads sadly cant serve ICN or HKG profitably as it stands. If they decided to let go of a few thousand backoffice employees that doesnt have any function at the airline then maybe they could make a profit but...

Out of the routes mentioned stopped I am quite surprised about Indonesia. Lowcost competition sure but even Royal Brunei continue to fly this route, maybe it was only a maid express feeder.
No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
 
TreeHillRavens
Posts: 284
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:01 pm

RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:08 pm

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 44):
Shockingly enough even my belowed Royal Brunei has made some money on BKI. (and thats an airline thats never ever been proftable)

Indeed they do and they get a sizeable amount of HKG and PVG bound passengers from BKI. If it is not because of BI, it will be even harder to secure a seat on KA and MH on the BKI/HKG sector.

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 44):
But non of these airlines are MH.
Just because there is a market doesnt mean every carrier can serve it profitably.
MH with its much larger overheads sadly cant serve ICN or HKG profitably as it stands. If they decided to let go of a few thousand backoffice employees that doesnt have any function at the airline then maybe they could make a profit but...

BKI/HKG is one of the routes that are deemed with a lot of potential and doing good. Basically, the whole MAS network doesn't seem to make money now, not even the prized LHR flights. If they really have to stop all the unprofitable routes, i'm afraid they will have to suspend all international flights and operate just domestic flights   

Anyway, it is confirmed that MAS will continue to fly to from BKI to HKG and TPE. Loads are healthy on these two international flights. While it may not be able to help MAS to post a profit, it can at least help them to minimize on the losses because these two flights are some of the international flights that are actually performing well. In a statement released by MAS just a few hours ago, it says that they will review all the to be suspended flights (BKI to ICN/HND/KIX/PER) by April next year whether or not the suspension is just temporarily or for good. Instead of resuming the 738 service from BKI to North Asia, i personally hope they will re-route some of the KUL flights to ICN, NRT/HND and KIX by making it a 1-stop flight again via BKI on certain days like old times.
 
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9MMPQ
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RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:02 pm

Suspended as per the announcement...

Effective 06 January 2012: Twice-weekly Kota Kinabalu-Osaka return B737 route
Effective 31 January 2012: Thrice-weekly Kota Kinabalu-Perth return B737 route
Effective 01 February 2012: Four times weekly Kota Kinabalu-Haneda (Tokyo) return B737 route
Effective 21 February 2012: Four times weekly Kota Kinabalu-Seoul return B737 route

I'd highly doubt any review will bring these back, but then again i'm certain there'll be many in Sabah again protesting the apparent hurt it will put on tourism. Let the lobbying begin again...

[Edited 2011-12-22 06:04:27]
I believe in coincidences. Coincidences happen every day. But I don't trust coincidences.
 
TreeHillRavens
Posts: 284
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:01 pm

RE: Malaysia Airlines Slashes Routes

Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:05 pm

Quoting 9MMPQ (Reply 46):
I'd highly doubt any review will bring these back, but then again i'm certain there'll be many in Sabah again protesting the apparent hurt it will put on tourism. Let the lobbying begin again...

It's not just the Sabah government that always lobby for more international flights operating directly to BKI. Pretty much all other states are doing the same. You hear some clowns singing in the parliament proceedings all the time.

Anyway, the suspension of ICN is definitely a good news to OZ. OZ was going to increase their flight to BKI to daily in 2008 but then, we all know what happened and the plan was scrapped. With MAS out of the picture, may be they can revisit this plan again.